No tax cut extension will crash the stock market Obama thinks he revived

[Toro]

Would allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire "crash" the market? Probably not. But it would probably be bad for the market. Raising taxes, like cutting spending, would be contractionary, which is a bad idea in a weak economy. But QE2 is far more important than the Bush tax cuts. The market could be facing trouble when the Fed buying is scheduled to end in June.

The tax cuts should be extended for the next year or two, but they should not be made permanent. They could cost the Treasury $4 trillion over the next decade. They should also be cut for everyone, not just for those making under $250k or $1MM. Having said that, it is better that they be made for people making below those incomes than allowing them to expire. If they are allowed to expire, a pox on both parties. It is a bad game of brinkmanship.

The return of the stock market over the past three days has been one of the strongest of the year. The market has been rallying because of ECB support for Ireland's and Portugal's debt, generally better than expected economic news and belief that a deal on tax cuts is at hand. The latter is probably the least important.

Clinton ran a surplus. The total amount of marketable debt, i.e. debt held by the public, fell. The reason why total debt rose was because of an increase in liabilities in the trusts, i.e. Social Security. But this isn't "intergovernmental borrowing" since the government didn't actually borrow from itself. It is a book entry, not a cash flow. However, Clinton probably wouldn't have run a surplus had the Tech Bubble not occurred, since there was a spike in capital gains taxes. Having said that, Clinton left the fiscal balance in much better shape than Bush did.

Many of us, including myself, pointed out long ago that the prospect of the Bush tax cuts being allowed to expire was driving artificial growth in the stock market this year.

Which is of course nonsense.

Which explains your complete and utter lack of knowledge of economics, business, and human psychology.

I'm not sure why allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire would drive the market higher. It would most likely weigh on stocks, since it would induce selling to take capital gains this year with a lower tax rate instead of capital gains next year with a higher tax rate.

 

[Rozman]

It's sad that Americans,no Americans on the left I should say.....believe this nonsense that the rich are getting a tax break.

The Liberal controlled media keeps selling this notion that the rich are getting another tax break while the middle class are gonna get a tax hike...

The poor regular run of the mill folk don't really dig into the story....this isn't a knock on them.
The MSNBC crowd prey on that and twist the truth to support the administration in whatever lies they want spread...

This is not a new windfall for those filthy rich.All the republicans want is for everything to stay the same as it's been for the last 7 years at least....This is NOT anything new being given to the rich.
And as far as giving the rich anything.....Well the only thing that was given to the rich in the first place was nothing...that's right,the left will have you think that the evil rich were given money out of the governments pocket.

The evil rich were only "given" their own money,that's right kiddies.the rich were "allowed" to keep more of their OWN money...

Let's get the truth out there guys.

 

[Vast LWC]

It's sad that Americans,no Americans on the left I should say.....believe this nonsense that the rich are getting a tax break.

The Liberal controlled media keeps selling this notion that the rich are getting another tax break while the middle class are gonna get a tax hike...

The poor regular run of the mill folk don't really dig into the story....this isn't a knock on them.
The MSNBC crowd prey on that and twist the truth to support the administration in whatever lies they want spread...

This is not a new windfall for those filthy rich.All the republicans want is for everything to stay the same as it's been for the last 7 years at least....This is NOT anything new being given to the rich.
And as far as giving the rich anything.....Well the only thing that was given to the rich in the first place was nothing...that's right,the left will have you think that the evil rich were given money out of the governments pocket.

The evil rich were only "given" their own money,that's right kiddies.the rich were "allowed" to keep more of their OWN money...

Let's get the truth out there guys.

Oh, how my heart breaks for the rich. The rich suffer so, and the evil left is out to make sure that they keep on suffering.

Doesn't anyone feel for the plight of the rich?

Can't you all see that the rich have been getting richer and richer, and using more and more of the countries resources, just to dull the pain of being rich?

Oh, except for George Soros, that is, or course.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Bullshit. Clinton left with a near $6 trillion debt... he never once ran a surplus. here's the CBO numbers:

Year Debt Deficit
FY1993 09/30/1993 $4.411488 trillion
FY1994 09/30/1994 $4.692749 trillion $281.26 billion
FY1995 09/29/1995 $4.973982 trillion $281.23 billion
FY1996 09/30/1996 $5.224810 trillion $250.83 billion
FY1997 09/30/1997 $5.413146 trillion $188.34 billion
FY1998 09/30/1998 $5.526193 trillion $113.05 billion
FY1999 09/30/1999 $5.656270 trillion $130.08 billion
FY2000 09/29/2000 $5.674178 trillion $17.91 billion
FY2001 09/28/2001 $5.807463 trillion $133.29 billion

It's not bullshit, you're just not smart enough to know what you're talking about.

The debt held by the public went down in 1999 and 2000. That was because the government took in more than it spent. You can see that quite clearly by reviewing the Bush administration's budget histories. Here, have a look - you'll want to move to the tables on page 26:

http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy06/pdf/hist.pdf

I'm smart enough to know that when the National Debt goes up every year from 1992 - 2000, it is idiotic to argue we're running surplus'. He started with $4.4 Trillion debt and left with a $5.8 Trillion debt.

Clinton never ran a surplus. PERIOD. You are free to believe otherwise if it makes you feel better, I won't debate it further because you are wrong.

Buh bye.

Even using your numbers, Clinton came closer to balancing the budget than any president in the last 30 years.

You want to dispute that?

 

[uscitizen]

Except, that's not what happened in 1999 and 2000. In those years, to use your example, the government spent 60K, earned 50K and was left with 10K extra to pay off the credit card bill they ran up surfing pron on their mommy's computer.

Bullshit. Clinton left with a near $6 trillion debt... he never once ran a surplus. here's the CBO numbers:

Year Debt Deficit
FY1993 09/30/1993 $4.411488 trillion
FY1994 09/30/1994 $4.692749 trillion $281.26 billion
FY1995 09/29/1995 $4.973982 trillion $281.23 billion
FY1996 09/30/1996 $5.224810 trillion $250.83 billion
FY1997 09/30/1997 $5.413146 trillion $188.34 billion
FY1998 09/30/1998 $5.526193 trillion $113.05 billion
FY1999 09/30/1999 $5.656270 trillion $130.08 billion
FY2000 09/29/2000 $5.674178 trillion $17.91 billion
FY2001 09/28/2001 $5.807463 trillion $133.29 billion

Clinton's deficts never added up to 6 trillon dollars. Add up your numbers, the total adds up to about 1.4 trillion.

Lets see 4.4 trillion in debt when Clinton took office.
The debt was around 700 billion when Reagan took office. Hmm then Bush I. double hmmm.

 

[shintao]

Nobody is going to wait until 2011 to realize capital gains.
How big are your balls, President Pro Growth?

Delaying Tax Vote Could Crash Stock Market - Washington Whispers (usnews.com)

Failure by Congress to extend the Bush tax cuts, especially locking in the 15 percent capital gains tax rate, will spark a stock market sell off starting December 15 as investors move to lock in gains at a lower rate than the 20 percent it would jump to next year, warn analysts. [See who gets the most money from the financial industry.]

While it is unclear how bad the sell off could be, it could wipe out the year's gains, they warn.

"Capital gains tax rate will increase from 15 to 20 percent if the tax cuts are not extended. The last time the capital gains tax rate increased--on Jan. 1, 1987 from 20 to 28 percent--investors realized their gains at the lower tax rate," said Daniel Clifton at a Washington partner at Strategas Research Partners. "We would expect a similar effect this time around as investors see the tax rate going up and choose to realize their gains and incur the 15 percent tax." [See a gallery of political caricatures.]

In a memo to clients, Clifton says that the date most clients are focused on is December 15th for a deal in Congress before beginning to sell. One reason: Many stock options expire that day and investors have to act.

The pedo has been smoking his crack pipe again.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Stock Market following tax increases/cuts:

Clinton tax hike - August 1993

Reagan tax hike - September 1982

Bush tax cuts - 2001/2003

 

[Truthmatters]

It's sad that Americans,no Americans on the left I should say.....believe this nonsense that the rich are getting a tax break.

The Liberal controlled media keeps selling this notion that the rich are getting another tax break while the middle class are gonna get a tax hike...

The poor regular run of the mill folk don't really dig into the story....this isn't a knock on them.
The MSNBC crowd prey on that and twist the truth to support the administration in whatever lies they want spread...

This is not a new windfall for those filthy rich.All the republicans want is for everything to stay the same as it's been for the last 7 years at least....This is NOT anything new being given to the rich.
And as far as giving the rich anything.....Well the only thing that was given to the rich in the first place was nothing...that's right,the left will have you think that the evil rich were given money out of the governments pocket.

The evil rich were only "given" their own money,that's right kiddies.the rich were "allowed" to keep more of their OWN money...

Let's get the truth out there guys.

If the republicans wanted to do this permantly then they should have made them permenant.

You know why they didnt ?

because they are complete budget busters.

They set it to expire in the NEXT presidents midterm election.

They did it to fuck with a dem president.

When in this countys history were taxes this low on this bracket and the economy was great?

Go get your historical example.

 

[The Rabbi]

Chalk up another example of Rabbi being caught talking directly out of his ass.

Let's hear you explain stock market value.

Right after you do the basic math question I've asked you to do repeatedly. The question I asked, NOT the question you want to answer.

IOW no you really don't understand it and can't explain it so you'll just deflect to an old thread everyone has forgotten about.
Got it.

 

[The Rabbi]

2. Having a 15% capital gains tax encourages reliance on investments made with borrowed money (in other words, gambling), rather than making money the old-fashioned way, through work.

Could you please explain this comment. If I build a factory and employ hundreds of people but go to the bank for a loan, how is that any different from anything else??

No-one is building factories, not in the US anyway. Corporate profits this quarter set a record, and the unemployment rate is at 9.8%.

The investments I'm referring to are the artificial capital gains in the market that have become the norm, without any noticeable growth in the industry they represent.

Investors are not picking a company that they want to help grow, and investing in that company, they are playing the market like it's a giant roulette wheel.

Nah, no one is building new factories in the U.S.
Caterpillar to build new plant in Texas - Business - U.S. business - Made in America - msnbc.com

It must be a scary to be so uninformed. The business world must look like topsy turvy to you.

 

[The Rabbi]

Would allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire "crash" the market? Probably not. But it would probably be bad for the market. Raising taxes, like cutting spending, would be contractionary, which is a bad idea in a weak economy. But QE2 is far more important than the Bush tax cuts. The market could be facing trouble when the Fed buying is scheduled to end in June.

The tax cuts should be extended for the next year or two, but they should not be made permanent. They could cost the Treasury $4 trillion over the next decade. They should also be cut for everyone, not just for those making under $250k or $1MM. Having said that, it is better that they be made for people making below those incomes than allowing them to expire. If they are allowed to expire, a pox on both parties. It is a bad game of brinkmanship.
.

Actually I would prefer to see taxes on everyone go up rather than class warfare winning out. Changing tax rates on lower income people doesn't affect the economy all that much because they have much less capacity to earn and produce. If taxes on everyone goes up then the Dems will suffer politically, which is not a bad thing. The stage will be set for victory 2012 and permanently lower taxes and spending will be the order of the day.

 

[Vast LWC]

Nah, no one is building new factories in the U.S.
Caterpillar to build new plant in Texas - Business - U.S. business - Made in America - msnbc.com

It must be a scary to be so uninformed. The business world must look like topsy turvy to you.

Wow Rabbi, you found one company out of thousands that's building a factory in the US. Congratulations! Guess that proves me wrong. LOL.

Yeah, I'm just "uninformed".

 

[Vast LWC]

In 1970, the richest 1% of the population earned 8% of income in the United States.

Today, that same 1% earns 24.5% of income.

That's more than the total combined income of the lowest 50% of the population.

Man, I feel so sorry for the rich. They really need that tax cut.

After all, trickle-down economics is working so well.

Corporate profit was the largest it's ever been this quarter, but there's close to 10% unemployment. Go figure.

Could the richest 1% be taking their money and using it to hire people in Southeast Asia for pennies an hour? Hmm. I wonder.

 

[The Rabbi]

Nah, no one is building new factories in the U.S.
Caterpillar to build new plant in Texas - Business - U.S. business - Made in America - msnbc.com

It must be a scary to be so uninformed. The business world must look like topsy turvy to you.

Wow Rabbi, you found one company out of thousands that's building a factory in the US. Congratulations! Guess that proves me wrong. LOL.

Yeah, I'm just "uninformed".

Yes it took me all of 15 seconds to google for the information. Just think: 15 seconds to avoid being revealed as an ignoramus.
In any case you never answered the question. Your views of the role of the stock market are uninformed and puerile.

 

[kyzr]

In 1970, the richest 1% of the population earned 8% of income in the United States.

Today, that same 1% earns 24.5% of income.

That's more than the total combined income of the lowest 50% of the population.

Man, I feel so sorry for the rich. They really need that tax cut.

After all, trickle-down economics is working so well.

Corporate profit was the largest it's ever been this quarter, but there's close to 10% unemployment. Go figure.

Could the richest 1% be taking their money and using it to hire people in Southeast Asia for pennies an hour? Hmm. I wonder.

Exactly, the low rates do not create jobs or we'd be at full employment. The DC morons need more gorilla analogies to get jobs created here in the US instead of overseas....

 

[The Rabbi]

The DC morons need to STFU and do exactly nothing. They haven't figured out yet that every policy they have rolled out has stifled this economy.

 

[editec]

The DC morons need to STFU and do exactly nothing. They haven't figured out yet that every policy they have rolled out has stifled this economy.

The economy got "stifled" while Bush II's tax cuts for billionaires was in place, remember?

Go figure, eh?

 

[The Rabbi]

The DC morons need to STFU and do exactly nothing. They haven't figured out yet that every policy they have rolled out has stifled this economy.

The economy got "stifled" while Bush II's tax cuts for billionaires was in place, remember?

Go figure, eh?

No actually it didn't.
The economy grew for almost the longest post war period we've seen after the Bush tax cuts.
The fact that you repeat the same tired discredited "tax cuts for billionaires" mantra tells me you aren't serious.
The economy tanked when Dems took over Congress. Fact.

 

[RDD_1210]

Let's hear you explain stock market value.

Right after you do the basic math question I've asked you to do repeatedly. The question I asked, NOT the question you want to answer.

IOW no you really don't understand it and can't explain it so you'll just deflect to an old thread everyone has forgotten about.
Got it.

LOL, keep avoiding it. You're pathetic. Any good "news" stories from the Onion you want post today??? hahahahahah

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

The DC morons need to STFU and do exactly nothing. They haven't figured out yet that every policy they have rolled out has stifled this economy.

The economy got "stifled" while Bush II's tax cuts for billionaires was in place, remember?

Go figure, eh?

Tax cuts crashed the economy? Who knew