NJ outlaws dropping out of school

[chanel]

NJ outlawed expulsion several years ago. If a student commits an egregious offense like possession of a weapon, rape, arson, etc. they are given a long term suspension. During that time, teachers are paid $50 an hour to provide "home instruction". Often, the students decide to drop out instead.

We also provide home instruction to students with "medical issues". These include teen pregnancy, drug addiction, "school phobia" and other conditions. Many doctors have no problem writing notes for kids who don't want to go to school. But often, these students will drop out as well.

If a student can not drop out until he or she turns 18, the home instruction business will be booming. And if this will be the trend across the nation, add up the $$$$$$$.

Did I mention that the teachers get paid even when the student cancels the appointment or pulls a no-show?

By law, students in NJ are allowed 18 days unexcused absences. When they get over 18, they are put on "no-credit status" until they "make up the time". Teachers are paid to work Saturdays, so students can sit in the cafeteria listening to their IPODS. Add up those $$$$$ across the country.

I hope this does not pass, but the inconvenient truth is that many schools are being used as warehouses to keep kids off the streets. We have so few options within the juvenile justice system, that criminals will now be "sentenced to school".

Most politicians send their kids to private school. WTH to they care?

 

[strollingbones]

how dare i what?

mention that i think your attitude as a teacher sucks?

well i dared

 

[strollingbones]

you dont advocate for mal

you bitch and you want to blame it all on the democrats

get over it and grow the fuck up

 

[RetiredGySgt]

you dont advocate for mal

you bitch and you want to blame it all on the democrats

get over it and grow the fuck up

You are a hypocrite, remind us again how when it is your pet peeve we should care but when it isn't we should hang people without trial or court.

 

[chanel]

If my attitude sucks, then so does 99 percent of the teachers I know, and the parents who expect their children to be safe and educated.

You keep advocating for pissing away more money and lowering the standards, and I'll advocate for safe schools. Pat yourself on the back. It looks like your team will win.

 

[strollingbones]

If my attitude sucks, then so does 99 percent of the teachers I know, and the parents who expect their children to be safe and educated.

You keep advocating for pissing away more money and lowering the standards, and I'll advocate for safe schools. Pat yourself on the back. It looks like your team will win.

you want to provide a post ...where i have advocted for that?

i have never said lower any standards...i believe in a classic education

i have read your threads over and over bitching about teaching and how its all the democrats fault...

again get the fuck overself....if you want to advocate for anyone advocate for yourself....try to improve your realm

 

[strollingbones]

but i am sure personal responsibility stops at your door...

 

[strollingbones]

you dont advocate for mal

you bitch and you want to blame it all on the democrats

get over it and grow the fuck up

You are a hypocrite, remind us again how when it is your pet peeve we should care but when it isn't we should hang people without trial or court.

ya people fucking kids is a pet peeve of mine.....

 

[Baruch Menachem]

It has been a long time since I was in compulsory schooling. It always seemed to me that it was the same four kids in class who the teacher had to spend most of the classroom time on. Not the ones who were dumb,slow or not getting it, but he ones who were bored, troublesome or obnoxious.

As a matter of fairness, 30 kids are getting short changed when you have one discipline problem taking up all the teacher's time.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

you dont advocate for mal

you bitch and you want to blame it all on the democrats

get over it and grow the fuck up

You are a hypocrite, remind us again how when it is your pet peeve we should care but when it isn't we should hang people without trial or court.

ya people fucking kids is a pet peeve of mine.....

Forget the law, forget the legal concepts, if anyone is accused string them up, right? Well unless you don't think so, then suddenly it all matters like making kids that don't want to be in school stay there to torment and destroy the learning environment of those that do want to be there. THEN suddenly it just isn't fair and we should care, RIGHT? The word for you is HYPOCRITE.

 

[strollingbones]

when i taught i found much of my time taken up by paperwork....simple as that....most teachers no longer discipline....they simply kick the kids to the principle .....most teachers want to see kids reflect that they are good teachers......

most teachers want the easiest path they can find.....tenure? what the hell is that all about?
no standardized testing....for teachers...teachers teaching out of their fields...the list of evils just goes on.....

o i am still waiting for the posts on what you say i posted.....go for it chanel...where are they?

 

[strollingbones]

You are a hypocrite, remind us again how when it is your pet peeve we should care but when it isn't we should hang people without trial or court.

ya people fucking kids is a pet peeve of mine.....

Forget the law, forget the legal concepts, if anyone is accused string them up, right? Well unless you don't think so, then suddenly it all matters like making kids that don't want to be in school stay there to torment and destroy the learning environment of those that do want to be there. THEN suddenly it just isn't fair and we should care, RIGHT? The word for you is HYPOCRITE.

call me names all you want.....

people fucking kids is wrong...and i dont have to have a legal concept to know that

anyone accused by how many people? how many victims?

have i said that kids should be in classes? did you miss the part where i mention vocational training.....do you even real other peoples posts or do you just launch into your name calling?

 

[Annie]

i wouldnt want a lot of jobs....but i think if her attitude on here is reflected in her classroom then everyone is losing.....

chanel continues to prove that its never the teacher...its always the pupil

I'll say that in actuality she's way more 'pro-student' in these kind of situations than myself. She goes to bat in situations I wouldn't, because I think they are hopeless.

Here though, we agree.

We keep hearing about the 'failure of American education system,' in the main both conservatives and liberals agree it's not working.

Get in the trenches and certain patterns emerge regarding the 'dumbing down.'

Simplistic view is that the system has failed. It has.

More nuanced is that the US attempts to reach all, (see *gag* NCLB nonsense). Leaving aside the crazy presumptions that all can be at grade level, regardless of where they started, (brain damaged or unable to speak/understand English), some students don't want to be in school, even when able to master the material.

Having a 'compulsory age' of 16 meant that a lot of students went truant. Now we're to raise that to 18? Talk about stupid!

It's not just idiotic, with a 'legal' drop out age of 16, there is time for the drop out to recognize their error and correct it. For two years I taught HS students that had left and wanted the 'real degree' not a GED. Some of those students were going on 20 or had hit that bar. Raise that age and sorry, the states/counties aren't going to pay the freight.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

ya people fucking kids is a pet peeve of mine.....

Forget the law, forget the legal concepts, if anyone is accused string them up, right? Well unless you don't think so, then suddenly it all matters like making kids that don't want to be in school stay there to torment and destroy the learning environment of those that do want to be there. THEN suddenly it just isn't fair and we should care, RIGHT? The word for you is HYPOCRITE.

call me names all you want.....

people fucking kids is wrong...and i dont have to have a legal concept to know that

anyone accused by how many people? how many victims?

have i said that kids should be in classes? did you miss the part where i mention vocational training.....do you even real other peoples posts or do you just launch into your name calling?

Ok I will play your dumb ass game...... Link for us to the Vocational schools in NJ. Or to a bill in the NJ Legislature trying to establish Vocational schools for teenagers.

And once again the LAW deals with the accused, except of course when it offends you then suddenly vigilantism is ok, right?

 

[chanel]

So true Baruch, but it is not the obnoxious kids who are dropping out. In fact, most of those kids have perfect attendance.

The kids who drop out of school are not going to catch up, obey the rules, or stop their criminal ways, at the age of 16 or 17. So, if the school wants them out, they will simply have to give them a diploma.

Maybe someone's brother in law is in the alternative school business. We pay $30K a year for the scarier ones to get educated elsewhere.

And bones, STFU. You must have me confused with someone else.

 

[strollingbones]

no i dont have you confused with anyone


i am waiting for you to prove i said those things? which btw i didnt

 

[chanel]

If you believe that criminals belong in the classroom, you are advocating for lower standards and unsafe schools.

Now show me how I am constantly "bitching about teaching" and blaming it on the Democrats. As Jillian pointed out, our governor is a Rep. He and the president are on the same page when it comes to "school reform". Want to increase graduation rates? Mandate it. We can hand out diplomas just like a birth certificate.

 

[IanC]

about ten years ago I got roped into being on a parent steering comittee for our school district. one of the things I remember most is being at a district wide meeting where a fairly high placed official from another district gave a short lecture on keeping students in school and increasing graduation rates. I am all for being responsive to student's needs and being flexible with programs to keep them interested and attending, and hopefully graduating. But this lady made an emphatic point, repeatedly, that criminals were overwhelmingly high school dropouts therefore we could reduce crime rates by keeping more students in school. in the Q&A I asked her if the same traits that increased the chance of being a criminal didnt also increase the chance of dropping out, that both outcomes were symptoms of a deeper cause rather than the lack of a diploma resulting in crime. honestly, the quizzical look on her face showed that she couldnt have been more confused by the question if I had asked it in Mandarin. like any good politician she just reiterated her points, ignored my question, and moved on. c'est la vie

 

[chanel]

Forget the law, forget the legal concepts, if anyone is accused string them up, right? Well unless you don't think so, then suddenly it all matters like making kids that don't want to be in school stay there to torment and destroy the learning environment of those that do want to be there. THEN suddenly it just isn't fair and we should care, RIGHT? The word for you is HYPOCRITE.

call me names all you want.....

people fucking kids is wrong...and i dont have to have a legal concept to know that

anyone accused by how many people? how many victims?

have i said that kids should be in classes? did you miss the part where i mention vocational training.....do you even real other peoples posts or do you just launch into your name calling?

Ok I will play your dumb ass game...... Link for us to the Vocational schools in NJ. Or to a bill in the NJ Legislature trying to establish Vocational schools for teenagers.

And once again the LAW deals with the accused, except of course when it offends you then suddenly vigilantism is ok, right?

There is no money for vocational schools. There is no money for alternative programs. There is no money for truant officers or extra security. There is no money to hire more teachers, buy more desks, and textbooks, etc. for the additional thousands that will now be kept in school against their will.

The Court just struck down NJ's anti-bullying law because it was declared an "unfunded mandate" upon the schools. I suspect this will be struck down as well - unless they miraculously "find" a billion dollars to pay for it. They sometimes forget that states can't print money like the federal govt.

And BTW - even vocational schools and alternative programs have to follow the NJ core curriculum and pass the same state test. It would be wonderful if non-academic kids could work on engines all day, but unfortunately they have to spend an equal amount of time in Physics and Spanish and British Literature and World Geography, etc.

 

[editec]

Some kids would be better off dropping out of HS and learning a trade.

yes. and there used to be good vocational high schools. there might still be in some places. but you can't do the programs if you suck all the money out of government.

One can get a job as an apprentice without a government school you know.

And who generally runs such programs?

Unions.

How do you feel about unions?