NFL DRAFT TONIGHT # 8 Detroit Lions Questions

[sealybobo]

Patricia wants an edge/linebacker....Mocks predict Florida State Brian Burns.
Quinn wants a Gronk.....Mocks predict Iowa TJ Hockenson

Does Quinn's vote overrule this coach's vote? Does Quinn trade down in the first round for another 3rd rounder? With who? Quinn says he doesn't have the ammo to trade up from #8...is that a smokescreen? The Lions have a glaring hole at RG and a RT who will retire after the season....will this be addressed? Alabama’s Jonah Williams?

WillPower
only the Shadow knows

We’re up next

Oliver is on the board

Who’s that?

 

[WillPower]

It's Hockenson! He could be either be Jimmy Graham or Eric Ebron; who incidentally got coached up in NE and become a steady ballplayer. This Hockenson kid is a ferocious blocker and has glue-hands....he only dropped one ball all season at Iowa...and he runs a 4.7 40 at 6'5", 250lbs. In double-tight end sets with Jesse James (same size as Hock), the Lions have two red-zone leapers....let's see a 5'11 cornerback or safety cover that....sweet.

 

[WillPower]

Who do you wish we picked? They haven’t even picked yet but what did you want us to get? I want defense and better offensive linemen.

I'm very happy with Hock, who can seal the corner on a sweep and sneak behind the secondary to light up the scoreboard. The Lions need OL help and they got it and they needed another sure-handed receiver and they got that too with this kid. He won't be a starter at first but he and James will probably split TE duties by mid-season. Quinn figures he has the next Gronk....that's like Sparky calling Kirk Gibson the next Mickey Mantle....he's got a busy summer ahead of him.

 

[basquebromance]

Josh The Jock Jacobs is easily the top RB in this draft. vision, power, and wiggle. congrats Raiders!

 

[basquebromance]

JUICE, JUICE, JUICE! NEW RAVENS' RB MARQUIS BROWN CAN RUN BY EVERYBODY!

 

[SandSquid]

It's Hockenson! He could be either be Jimmy Graham or Eric Ebron; who incidentally got coached up in NE and become a steady ballplayer. This Hockenson kid is a ferocious blocker and has glue-hands....he only dropped one ball all season at Iowa...and he runs a 4.7 40 at 6'5", 250lbs. In double-tight end sets with Jesse James (same size as Hock), the Lions have two red-zone leapers....let's see a 5'11 cornerback or safety cover that....sweet.

Indy not NE.

Will be interesting. Since 2000, there's 3 tight ends believed to be elite enough to be taken in the top 10 picks. Ebron, Vernon Davis, and Kellen Winslow. All showed moments of greatness, but none was truly an elite one with any consistency. The three before that were Rickey Dudley (had a good year or two), Kyle Brady (great blocker, never really became a receiver), and Junior Miller (looked like the next great TE as a rookie but faded fast).

Of the 19 TE's taken in the top 20 since 1980, 1 was a HOFer (Tony Gonzalez), 3 showed some consistent greatness (Keith Jackson, Shockey, Vernon Davis), and 5 showed a blip of great play or extended solid play (Ebron so far, Bubba franks, Ethan Horton, Winslow, Miller). The other 10 were less than solid. Avg career is at 3500 yards and 27 TD's.

Like any pick they have their risks of course. I'd put his high at a Gates who can block, and his low at more of a Kyle Brady but maybe not the longetivity.


Not saying this will happen but it is interesting to see some of the similarities with Kyle Brady and Hockenson. Jets had already tried the 1st round TE recently (Johnny Mitchell a few years earlier). Brady was the can't miss Big 10 TE. Huge size (6'6 270), great hands, amazing blocker (Ki-Jana Carter loved him), good leaper for a red zone target and athletic for his size (combine numbers all just a tick off of Hockenson), the hope he'd make for a great 2TE combo (with Mitchell).

 

[Marion Morrison]

 

[WillPower]

Indy not NE.

Will be interesting. Since 2000, there's 3 tight ends believed to be elite enough to be taken in the top 10 picks. Ebron, Vernon Davis, and Kellen Winslow. All showed moments of greatness, but none was truly an elite one with any consistency. The three before that were Rickey Dudley (had a good year or two), Kyle Brady (great blocker, never really became a receiver), and Junior Miller (looked like the next great TE as a rookie but faded fast).

Of the 19 TE's taken in the top 20 since 1980, 1 was a HOFer (Tony Gonzalez), 3 showed some consistent greatness (Keith Jackson, Shockey, Vernon Davis), and 5 showed a blip of great play or extended solid play (Ebron so far, Bubba franks, Ethan Horton, Winslow, Miller). The other 10 were less than solid. Avg career is at 3500 yards and 27 TD's.

Like any pick they have their risks of course. I'd put his high at a Gates who can block, and his low at more of a Kyle Brady but maybe not the longetivity.


Not saying this will happen but it is interesting to see some of the similarities with Kyle Brady and Hockenson. Jets had already tried the 1st round TE recently (Johnny Mitchell a few years earlier). Brady was the can't miss Big 10 TE. Huge size (6'6 270), great hands, amazing blocker (Ki-Jana Carter loved him), good leaper for a red zone target and athletic for his size (combine numbers all just a tick off of Hockenson), the hope he'd make for a great 2TE combo (with Mitchell).

Yep, Indy not NE....I realized that after it was too late to change it. The TE position is as important as the team makes it. The Lions want to field a ball-control (run) offense to give a great defense time to rest between series, so a good blocking TE is real important to them. Quinn had Gronk all those years in NE and they really depended on his blocking as much as his ability to get open as a receiver. I believe that's what endeared Hock to Quinn....keeping Stafford from getting hit so much. Ebron's problem was his fear of getting hit (footsteps). Anybody who's played receiver knows you can't focus on anything but the ball, snag it, pull it in, and prepare for the hit. The good ones rarely take a solid lick like the TE and slot-receiver over the middle by a LB or nutcase safety. What was infuriating about Ebron is he'd drop balls that hit him in the numbers and then snag a pass with nobody around him, go down on first contact, and then dance around like he'd done the impossible....Detroit fans ran that bum out of town. Somebody got to him in Indy...told him how it was gonna be and he finally got it.

 

[WillPower]

DAY TWO....Lions pick #44 and #88...crazy since they picked #8 in the first round and #11 in the second. Rumor is Quinn is moving up for somebody, probably a stud RG or CB he's obsessed with. That's the thing about Quinn...once he targets somebody, he's so single-minded he may be missing on better opportunities. If he can pull a starter at RG, he'll have a young and dynamic OL that could be together for 4 or 5 years. I believe the Lions are okay at CB with Slay on the strong side and a combo plate on the other...that RG hole is glaring and must be filled. He's got enough FA money to fill it but who wants somebody else's used car when a shiny new model is sitting there for less dough?

 

[SandSquid]

Indy not NE.

Will be interesting. Since 2000, there's 3 tight ends believed to be elite enough to be taken in the top 10 picks. Ebron, Vernon Davis, and Kellen Winslow. All showed moments of greatness, but none was truly an elite one with any consistency. The three before that were Rickey Dudley (had a good year or two), Kyle Brady (great blocker, never really became a receiver), and Junior Miller (looked like the next great TE as a rookie but faded fast).

Of the 19 TE's taken in the top 20 since 1980, 1 was a HOFer (Tony Gonzalez), 3 showed some consistent greatness (Keith Jackson, Shockey, Vernon Davis), and 5 showed a blip of great play or extended solid play (Ebron so far, Bubba franks, Ethan Horton, Winslow, Miller). The other 10 were less than solid. Avg career is at 3500 yards and 27 TD's.

Like any pick they have their risks of course. I'd put his high at a Gates who can block, and his low at more of a Kyle Brady but maybe not the longetivity.


Not saying this will happen but it is interesting to see some of the similarities with Kyle Brady and Hockenson. Jets had already tried the 1st round TE recently (Johnny Mitchell a few years earlier). Brady was the can't miss Big 10 TE. Huge size (6'6 270), great hands, amazing blocker (Ki-Jana Carter loved him), good leaper for a red zone target and athletic for his size (combine numbers all just a tick off of Hockenson), the hope he'd make for a great 2TE combo (with Mitchell).

Yep, Indy not NE....I realized that after it was too late to change it. The TE position is as important as the team makes it. The Lions want to field a ball-control (run) offense to give a great defense time to rest between series, so a good blocking TE is real important to them. Quinn had Gronk all those years in NE and they really depended on his blocking as much as his ability to get open as a receiver. I believe that's what endeared Hock to Quinn....keeping Stafford from getting hit so much. Ebron's problem was his fear of getting hit (footsteps). Anybody who's played receiver knows you can't focus on anything but the ball, snag it, pull it in, and prepare for the hit. The good ones rarely take a solid lick like the TE and slot-receiver over the middle by a LB or nutcase safety. What was infuriating about Ebron is he'd drop balls that hit him in the numbers and then snag a pass with nobody around him, go down on first contact, and then dance around like he'd done the impossible....Detroit fans ran that bum out of town. Somebody got to him in Indy...told him how it was gonna be and he finally got it.

Agree with you. and he's got the good blocking as a floor much like Kyle Brady did. So while you wouldn't take a blocking tight end that early because you can find one later you do have the upside that he could become a great receiver hopefully.

And I was thinking about it today, while I enjoy every draft if I had to pick one with the most "boring" first round this might be it. Not saying it was a bad draft or lacking talent, just some of the intrigue you usually find wasn't there...

They tried to add a little "what if" over Kyler Murray maybe not going number one but you can really tell that was as sure of a thing as you could get. Not much drama with the other quarterbacks, no move ups to get them, no surprises on who went for them, no freak athletic talents or huge names or teams trading or reaching (no story's like tebow, manziel, Watson, Jackson)

No freaky skill position guys with big names (Reggie bush, Elliott, Calvin Johnson, Barkley)...

No elite shut down prospect corners (Ramsey, Ward, Peterson).

Sweat was really the only big "how far will he fall" guy (didn't really have the same feel as Moss, Sapp, Rodgers, Quinn...)

Some trades but nothing was huge or out of the blue gotta have it deals (big ones for Beckam, Brown, Vernon, Mack, Clark were earlier, Pitt/Den was the only one in the first half of the round which got them a 2nd and 2020 3rd).

And I did miss Gruden at the draft. Right or wrong him and Kiper were more fun.

I guess the biggest wow factor of the draft was just how many people were there... That was crazy.

 

[WillPower]

160K? and it was raining! Not a real suspenseful draft this year when a 5'11" QB (he's probably really 5'9") goes #1. The mocks were all over the place with the Lions pick but a lot of them were right about Hockenson. I figured Quinn would go after the kid from Alabama at RG or another edge. You know Ziggy Ansah is supposedly healed up and making the rounds looking for a job...maybe Quinn has something up his sleeve with Ziggy. At full health, he and Flowers would be a handful for any blocking scheme to deal with.

 

[SandSquid]

160K? and it was raining! Not a real suspenseful draft this year when a 5'11" QB (he's probably really 5'9") goes #1. The mocks were all over the place with the Lions pick but a lot of them were right about Hockenson. I figured Quinn would go after the kid from Alabama at RG or another edge. You know Ziggy Ansah is supposedly healed up and making the rounds looking for a job...maybe Quinn has something up his sleeve with Ziggy. At full health, he and Flowers would be a handful for any blocking scheme to deal with.

Wow. That's an insane number.

As for the height, combine measurements are accurate I believe. So I'd buy that more than the NBA with iverson at 6'1 or Barkley at 6'8. Kind of funny on that. When Voshon Lenard played for the Miami heat, they'd hold camp where I went to college, and I'd sometimes grab boards and kick out after practice when he was shooting. I'm 6'3 and had him by at least 2 inches, and he was listed as 6'4.

And I think Wilson's success kind of made that height less of a story.

Either way that wasn't really a surprise. Especially when they kept going to the Cardinals war room, and the coaches/GM are just sitting there hands folded waiting for the mandatory time to turn in their pick lol.

 

[task0778]

Patricia wants an edge/linebacker....Mocks predict Florida State Brian Burns.
Quinn wants a Gronk.....Mocks predict Iowa TJ Hockenson

Does Quinn's vote overrule this coach's vote? Does Quinn trade down in the first round for another 3rd rounder? With who? Quinn says he doesn't have the ammo to trade up from #8...is that a smokescreen? The Lions have a glaring hole at RG and a RT who will retire after the season....will this be addressed? Alabama’s Jonah Williams?

WillPower
only the Shadow knows

Before I forget, where'd you get the idea that RT Ricky Wagner is retiring? At $11.9 mil per yr for the next 3 years, I don't think he's going anywhere unless he gets cut or traded.

I too wanted an Edge guy or LBer, would've been thrilled if they coulda got Josh Allen or Devin White but neither dropped to them. Oliver could be a really good player, but the Lions felt Hockenson would make the team better; nothing like staying on the field longer by running the ball better and getting more 1st downs, and I think that's what they envision with the Hock pick. It's not like they aren't okay on the DL as it is now, especially after they went out and signed Flowers. With Flowers, Harrison, Kennard, Okwara, Robinson, Hand, Davis, and others blitzing in from all directions, it could be that the need for Oliver just wasn't as great and the improvement they need on offense.

 

[WillPower]

Before I forget, where'd you get the idea that RT Ricky Wagner is retiring? At $11.9 mil per yr for the next 3 years, I don't think he's going anywhere unless he gets cut or traded.

I too wanted an Edge guy or LBer, would've been thrilled if they coulda got Josh Allen or Devin White but neither dropped to them. Oliver could be a really good player, but the Lions felt Hockenson would make the team better; nothing like staying on the field longer by running the ball better and getting more 1st downs, and I think that's what they envision with the Hock pick. It's not like they aren't okay on the DL as it is now, especially after they went out and signed Flowers. With Flowers, Harrison, Kennard, Okwara, Robinson, Hand, Davis, and others blitzing in from all directions, it could be that the need for Oliver just wasn't as great and the improvement they need on offense.

I seem to recall him having several concussions....He's had at least two I could confirm. The site I went to said his salary is $9 for the next three years.....and of course, NFL contracts ain't worth the paper they're written on....they could cut him tomorrow and only take the cap hit as far as I know. I haven't lived in Detroit since the late 60's or seen many of their games lately, but for some reason I thought they were looking for a RT for next season.....I might have him confused with somebody else.

 

[WillPower]

160K? and it was raining! Not a real suspenseful draft this year when a 5'11" QB (he's probably really 5'9") goes #1. The mocks were all over the place with the Lions pick but a lot of them were right about Hockenson. I figured Quinn would go after the kid from Alabama at RG or another edge. You know Ziggy Ansah is supposedly healed up and making the rounds looking for a job...maybe Quinn has something up his sleeve with Ziggy. At full health, he and Flowers would be a handful for any blocking scheme to deal with.

Wow. That's an insane number.

As for the height, combine measurements are accurate I believe. So I'd buy that more than the NBA with iverson at 6'1 or Barkley at 6'8. Kind of funny on that. When Voshon Lenard played for the Miami heat, they'd hold camp where I went to college, and I'd sometimes grab boards and kick out after practice when he was shooting. I'm 6'3 and had him by at least 2 inches, and he was listed as 6'4.

And I think Wilson's success kind of made that height less of a story.

Either way that wasn't really a surprise. Especially when they kept going to the Cardinals war room, and the coaches/GM are just sitting there hands folded waiting for the mandatory time to turn in their pick lol.

Yeah....Sir Charles was a tick under 6'5" but in his years with the Suns, I never saw him lose a jump ball...he could get up when he felt like it. Growing up in Alabama, he would jump from one side of a 3 foot high fence to the other over and over..his mother thought she was raising a retard but it paid off in him getting those tree-trunk legs.

 

[WillPower]

Pick #43 Jahlani Tavai.......WHO? LB from Hawaii.

 

[task0778]

Pick #43 Jahlani Tavai.......WHO? LB from Hawaii.

I am fairly confident in saying that this guy could have been drafted later on, 43 was way too early IMHO. He better be one shit-hot LB, they passed on a bunch of pretty good players for this guy.

 

[WillPower]

Pick #43 Jahlani Tavai.......WHO? LB from Hawaii.

I am fairly confident in saying that this guy could have been drafted later on, 43 was way too early IMHO. He better be one shit-hot LB, they passed on a bunch of pretty good players for this guy.

The pick seems so crazy they must have pretty good evidence he can play MLB and move Davis outside. Detroit papers are full of outrage and guys swearing they'll never watch another Lions game....but they will....we will....it seems like whatever they do, we keep coming back for more punishment. ESPN ignored the pick and kept talking about Denver's pick before us....I can't even find any video on the guy!

 

[gipper]

I don't follow college football that much and so have no opinions on the players. Wouldn't mind our local Cardinals trading down a bit and picking up an extra pick mid and lower round picks, our OL was a disaster last season. Fortunately it looks like my Browns won't have opportunity to screw up tonight.

As for Detroit, taking a TE at #8 wouldn't give me any warm fuzzy. I'd be more optimistic if they go with edge/linebacker route.

When DE Burns visited the Lions they had him huddle with the LB coach more than the DE coach. I believe they see him as a guy who can survive in coverage since he's very fast and agile and a little light for a DE at 245lbs. As he ages or hits the weight room, he could easily put on another 10-12 lbs and not get tossed around by a 300lb OT. Once one of those guys gets his mitts on ya, how fast you are doesn't mean diddly. I've tried rooting for the Cards (been in Phoenix/Tempe since '74) but Bidwell was such a stingy shithead I didn't stay long...I still root for the Suns for some reason although Sarver to much worse than Bidwell ever was.

The Lions have sucked for 60 years. Who gives a fuck who they pick? They will continue to suck.

 

[WillPower]

Hmmmm.....according to this article, New England was eyeballing this guy in the 2nd round...did Quinn get tipped off by an old ally from his past? Patricia apparently likes this guy's size (250) and motor....10 tackles a game means he doesn't quit on plays. We might all be wiping egg off our face this time next year.

What NFL insiders are saying about new Detroit Lions LB Jahlani Tavai