New Proposed Laws Threaten Obama's 2012 Re-Election Prospects

[gekaap]

Obama posted on the internet a copy of what his supporters call his “birth certificate”(although the image is only of a 2007 Certification of Live Birth [COLB] computer form,which is computer generated and easily forged form that was posted online in 2008 which is not a true Birth Certificate and is not a typed contemporaneous birth certificate from 1961 which would have the name and signature of the delivering doctor or witnesses to the birth.

Oh, this old argument. Obama obtained a fresh copy of his birth certificate in 2007. Birthers complain that it's not the original birth certificate. Of course, what Obama has was issued by the state of Hawaii, is notarized by a Hawaii notary public, but there's still this issue for some reason.

The problem here is that you demands are not reasonable. I, for one, do not possess my original birth certificate. It's gone. I believe it was probably confiscated when my name was legally changed when I was a baby to give me my father's last name. In any event, a new birth certificate was issued, and that subsequently was destroyed in a fire when I was still a young child. Since then I've had to replace my birth certificate a couple times for various reasons. The one I have now is similar to the one Obama has, but mine actually has less information than his. There's no information about my parents at all. Only my name, and my birth date. Does this make me somehow no longer a natural born citizen? Is my birth certificate, issued by the state in which I was born, somehow not valid because it's not the original, or because it doesn't have any information on who was the delivering doctor?

The problem is that you're demanding things that there is no place to demand. What Obama has would be readily accepted for any other person in this country. But Obama is a special exception, and the truth is that you simply don't want to have any burden of proof satisfied. Like I said, you're moving the goal post. First it was that he didn't show a birth certificate. Then, it was that it wasn't the right birth certificate. YES IT IS! It's his birth certificate, it was issued by the state of Hawaii, it's authentic!

No witnesses or hospitals have ever attested to Obama being born in Hawaii.

The state of Hawaii has attested to the fact.

Birth registration fraud and fake computer birth certificates is a massive problem in the U.S.

And what evidence do you have that there is any such fraud here? Identity theft is a massive problem in the US. I could claim that John McCain is not who he is because the country has a problem with identity theft. But my claim without any evidence is meaningless. Taking such a position without any evidence would be illogical. Dismissing evidence to the contrary on the dogma that "it's fake" even though there's no evidence of such forgery is tantamount to hearing voices that aren't there.

 

[USArmyRetired]

Obama posted on the internet a copy of what his supporters call his “birth certificate”(although the image is only of a 2007 Certification of Live Birth [COLB] computer form,which is computer generated and easily forged form that was posted online in 2008 which is not a true Birth Certificate and is not a typed contemporaneous birth certificate from 1961 which would have the name and signature of the delivering doctor or witnesses to the birth.

Oh, this old argument. Obama obtained a fresh copy of his birth certificate in 2007. Birthers complain that it's not the original birth certificate. Of course, what Obama has was issued by the state of Hawaii, is notarized by a Hawaii notary public, but there's still this issue for some reason.

The problem here is that you demands are not reasonable. I, for one, do not possess my original birth certificate. It's gone. I believe it was probably confiscated when my name was legally changed when I was a baby to give me my father's last name. In any event, a new birth certificate was issued, and that subsequently was destroyed in a fire when I was still a young child. Since then I've had to replace my birth certificate a couple times for various reasons. The one I have now is similar to the one Obama has, but mine actually has less information than his. There's no information about my parents at all. Only my name, and my birth date. Does this make me somehow no longer a natural born citizen? Is my birth certificate, issued by the state in which I was born, somehow not valid because it's not the original, or because it doesn't have any information on who was the delivering doctor?

The problem is that you're demanding things that there is no place to demand. What Obama has would be readily accepted for any other person in this country. But Obama is a special exception, and the truth is that you simply don't want to have any burden of proof satisfied. Like I said, you're moving the goal post. First it was that he didn't show a birth certificate. Then, it was that it wasn't the right birth certificate. YES IT IS! It's his birth certificate, it was issued by the state of Hawaii, it's authentic!

No witnesses or hospitals have ever attested to Obama being born in Hawaii.

The state of Hawaii has attested to the fact.

Birth registration fraud and fake computer birth certificates is a massive problem in the U.S.

And what evidence do you have that there is any such fraud here? Identity theft is a massive problem in the US. I could claim that John McCain is not who he is because the country has a problem with identity theft. But my claim without any evidence is meaningless. Taking such a position without any evidence would be illogical. Dismissing evidence to the contrary on the dogma that "it's fake" even though there's no evidence of such forgery is tantamount to hearing voices that aren't there.

Why hasn't Hawaii confirmed that the internet pictured COLB was released by them?

 

[gekaap]

Why hasn't Hawaii confirmed that the internet pictured COLB was released by them?

They confirm that the document was issued by them by notarizing it. Same way that any other state confirms that any other copy of a record was issued by said state. Why do you have to make a special case out of this one man? But if you really want special attention to have your illogical blindness stroked, why don't you write them a letter and ask them for verification to you personally, on top of the fact that Hawaii state officials have already gone on record saying that they've confirmed that they have Obama's original birth certificate on record?

 

[gekaap]

Hawaii: Obama birth certificate is real - USATODAY.com

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.

 

[USArmyRetired]

Why hasn't Hawaii confirmed that the internet pictured COLB was released by them?

They confirm that the document was issued by them by notarizing it. Same way that any other state confirms that any other copy of a record was issued by said state. Why do you have to make a special case out of this one man? But if you really want special attention to have your illogical blindness stroked, why don't you write them a letter and ask them for verification to you personally, on top of the fact that Hawaii state officials have already gone on record saying that they've confirmed that they have Obama's original birth certificate on record?

Saying they have a original birth certificate on record is one thing, how ever, she did not verify that the certificate on file in Hawaii matches the "COLB" pictured on Obama's site and at Factcheck which are not government sources. Now from your first sentence, please show me a Hawaii government statement where they confirmed the document by notarizing it since you claim this?

 

[gekaap]

Saying they have a original birth certificate on record is one thing, how ever, she did not verify that the certificate on file in Hawaii matches the "COLB" pictured on Obama's site and at Factcheck which are not government sources. Now from your first sentence, please show me a Hawaii government statement where they confirmed the document by notarizing it since you claim this?

STOP MOVING THE GOAL POST!!!!

Do you even comprehend what a notary is?

 

[USArmyRetired]

Hawaii: Obama birth certificate is real - USATODAY.com

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.

Read the fine print from this second statement from her in July of 09. She says 'original vital records' (plural) on file. What are the other vital records since a birth certificate is one document? Remember, last month the new Hawaii governor said all he could find was a notation of 'something written' in the archives. What could be written that is a vital record? See the conflicting stories that is coming out of Hawaii.

 

[gekaap]

Read the fine print from this second statement from her in July of 09. She says 'original vital records' (plural) on file. What are the other vital records since a birth certificate is one document? Remember, last month the new Hawaii governor said all he could find was a notation of 'something written' in the archives. What could be written that is a vital record? See the conflicting stories that is coming out of Hawaii.

Okay, so now you're going to play semantics games? Why don't you just admit that you don't want Obama to be a citizen. You desperately want him to be a foreigner because you just absolutely hate the fact that he's President. You aren't interested in truth, you're just interested in getting your way, right away, at Burger King now.

 

[DiveCon]

Why hasn't Hawaii confirmed that the internet pictured COLB was released by them?

They confirm that the document was issued by them by notarizing it. Same way that any other state confirms that any other copy of a record was issued by said state. Why do you have to make a special case out of this one man? But if you really want special attention to have your illogical blindness stroked, why don't you write them a letter and ask them for verification to you personally, on top of the fact that Hawaii state officials have already gone on record saying that they've confirmed that they have Obama's original birth certificate on record?

Saying they have a original birth certificate on record is one thing, how ever, she did not verify that the certificate on file in Hawaii matches the "COLB" pictured on Obama's site and at Factcheck which are not government sources. Now from your first sentence, please show me a Hawaii government statement where they confirmed the document by notarizing it since you claim this?

the notary stamp is actually ON the document

 

[GStarz]

Hawaii: Obama birth certificate is real - USATODAY.com

"I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, director of the Hawaii State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen.

Read the fine print from this second statement from her in July of 09. She says 'original vital records' (plural) on file. What are the other vital records since a birth certificate is one document? Remember, last month the new Hawaii governor said all he could find was a notation of 'something written' in the archives. What could be written that is a vital record? See the conflicting stories that is coming out of Hawaii.

Geekap is now simply playing games, my friend. you're too good to waste your time going in circles. You've won this debate handily ten times over IMO, the time has come to press on. Rather than run out the clock between now and 2012 debating liberals who have made it clear that they will never agree on anything, but bicker our time away, we need to get this information into the hands of those who do not already know - and are open minded enough to learn

 

[shintao]

This post is qualified by two linked articles, below, one from pro-GOP WND, and the other from left leaning Associated Press, for balance. This is not a "fringe theory" though some will try to paint it as such - the information here is fact. Check the links.

Several states are in various stages of preparing laws to force any presidential candidate to show his original and/or long form (depending on the state) birth certificate. Even uber-liberal Mother Jones News has suggested that Obama may in fact not be constitutionally eligible by saying these laws may stop Obama cold in 2012.

The stakes have been upped as of this week, however; state Rep. Mark Hatfield, R-Ga., is taking it one step further with his proposed eligibility requirement – making it illegal for an elector to cast a ballot for an unapproved candidate.

The state's Presidential Eligibility Assurance Act would specify, "It is unlawful for any presidential elector from this state to cast his or her electoral college vote for a candidate who is not approved by the Secretary of State as having submitted adequate evidence of eligibility. Any person who violates this Code section shall upon conviction be guilty of a misdemeanor of a high and aggravated nature."

Intellectually dishonest liberal activists have been dismissing people who want to know what Obama is hiding in his past with such pithy classifications as "Birthers", "Birfers", Wingnuts and lots of other unsubstantial, childish, school-ground name-calling instead of legitimate debate, and to some extent it has worked to silence many critics. But no longer. If Obama is clean, then great, and all we have to wonder about is why he spent taxpayer money fighting disclosure for 3 years, like a selfish asshole, and people will want to know - if nothing else, he needs to repay that money out of his own pocket. But if he isn't it's probably no exaggeration to say that with the November republican landslide as a benchmark, if obama served knowing he was unqualified after all the damage he has dome to this country, it will cripple the democrat party for generations. Such statements will frighten liberals, and that fear will enrage them and they strike out at this, but tough shit: facts are facts

"Birfer"? Very cute. But all it takes is one of these several laws to pass and Obama is stopped cold in 2012. Period. Then we'll see how much name-calling helps them.

World Net Daily pro-GOP version here (more detailed)
Associated Press uber-liberal,Obama-supporting pro-Democrat version here. (shorter version)

Remember, all it takes is one of these laws to pass in any state in the US and Obama is finished if he doesn't have the records. Not theory or speculation. Fact.



The term "Birther"? You didn't get the memo: it isn't working anymore. No one is intimidated by this in 2011 and state legislators are actively going after the records, and they'll get them, one way or another, or Obama will be off the ballots or both.

The Supreme Court will rule it illegal and you are back to square one. Nice try, no Monica soaked cigar for you.............

 

[raml]

I am amazed to read that people moved from state to state and didn't have to have their birth certificate when they wanted the new states drivers license. When I moved from Michigan to California I had to take my birth certificate and mail like an electric bill to show I lived at the address I was giving to the dmv to put on my license I also had to show my social security card not just tell them my number. I have been in Missouri since 1998 and when I got a new license here I had to show my birth certificate which by the way has what hospital I was born at even what my parents did for a living at the time of my birth it also has the state insignia indented into the paper that is what makes it official it is not just stamped on it is imprinted into the paper. I also had to have mail with my new address on it and my social security card. I just renewed my license and I had to once again take my birth certificate and mail and ssc. When I lived in Ohio I also had to do the same when I moved there years ago so I highly doubt people are moving from state to state and not being required to prove who they are. I think you have either forgotten or are not being truthful. I moved back to Michigan for a few years after living in California and guess what I had to prove who I was to them to and when I moved back to California again I had to once again show my birth certificate in fact I had to order a new one because during the last move out there I lost it so it took me a few weeks to get a new one and it is the one I have now it has all the information on it that my original did plus the imprinted emblem of the state of Michigan. A certification of birth is not a birth certificate and can be duplicated easily. They were given to me for my kids births at the hospital their real birth certificates were sent to me by the state a few weeks later. I live in Missouri now and they required a real birth certificate meaning a long form as did California Ohio and Michigan.

 

[shintao]

I am amazed to read that people moved from state to state and didn't have to have their birth certificate when they wanted the new states drivers license. When I moved from Michigan to California I had to take my birth certificate and mail like an electric bill to show I lived at the address I was giving to the dmv to put on my license I also had to show my social security card not just tell them my number. I have been in Missouri since 1998 and when I got a new license here I had to show my birth certificate which by the way has what hospital I was born at even what my parents did for a living at the time of my birth it also has the state insignia indented into the paper that is what makes it official it is not just stamped on it is imprinted into the paper. I also had to have mail with my new address on it and my social security card. I just renewed my license and I had to once again take my birth certificate and mail and ssc. When I lived in Ohio I also had to do the same when I moved there years ago so I highly doubt people are moving from state to state and not being required to prove who they are. I think you have either forgotten or are not being truthful. I moved back to Michigan for a few years after living in California and guess what I had to prove who I was to them to and when I moved back to California again I had to once again show my birth certificate in fact I had to order a new one because during the last move out there I lost it so it took me a few weeks to get a new one and it is the one I have now it has all the information on it that my original did plus the imprinted emblem of the state of Michigan. A certification of birth is not a birth certificate and can be duplicated easily. They were given to me for my kids births at the hospital their real birth certificates were sent to me by the state a few weeks later. I live in Missouri now and they required a real birth certificate meaning a long form as did California Ohio and Michigan.

That is an interesting story, but what has it to do with Obama?

 

[sitarro]

The idiot Governor of Hawaii is pretty funny. He guaranteed that he would produce an actual birth certificate for Barry and couldn't find it.
Back when Barry was born in Kenya, the affluent Grandparents just had to call the papers to announce his birth. Then they went to get a certificate of live birth, similar to the crap that Barry had on his web site during his marathon campaign where he spent 730 million dollars in 2 years to buy the Presidency. Is anyone really surprised that he is addicted to spending everyone else's money? Anyone that paid attention to his spending during the campaign knew what he was going to be like.

 

[WorldWatcher]

McCain showed his when they were drafting Senate Resolution 511 declaring him a natural born citizen born to two U.S. citizen parents and eligible to run for the presidency.

McCains as submitted to a government entity (congress) so they could pass the Senate 511.

Would you have some proof of this or is this something you just made up?

Committee meetings (that are not classified) and floor debates are public record, please show us were McCain ever was asked for and provided a copy of his birth certificate to the Senate as part of the passage of the NBC resolution.

My understanding is the "resolutions", not bills which become law, are simply submitted directly to the Speaker of the House or the president pro tempore of the Senate and brought to the floor for discussion and a vote. No Committee, no evidence required and (in this case) no documentation provided.



>>>>

 

[Toro]

my point is not moot
my point is valid, it wouldnt have mattered one bit if either McCain or Obama had been born in another country
they both had American Citizens as at least one parent

but the facts are, McCain was born to Military on a military base
Obama was born in HI as verified by the State of HI

Correct.

Uh, excuse me, but in point of fact we do not know the precise details of his place of birth, because as even liberal chris matthews has pointed out, the COLB isnl;t worth the ink it's printed with, and big, brave, world-changing Obama is too much of a pussy to not only release his birth certificate, but is fighting in court to keep it hidden from the people who are paying hos lawyers to do it. That's a hell of a big difference from "he was born in hawaii,.... yes that's correct.' Jesus, how many ways can people portray the concept of stupid? Mockery does not an argument make. Say a little reality, stop mocking the birthers and if you would like to win for a change, cough up a fact or two that can be qualified substantially.

Were does Chris Matthews say that the COLB isn't worth the ink it is printed on? That's not what he said in that 4:26 youtube video you posted.

 

[Toro]

gekaap wins the Internet!

 

[gekaap]

The idiot Governor of Hawaii is pretty funny. He guaranteed that he would produce an actual birth certificate for Barry and couldn't find it.

He did find it. But state law prohibits him from releasing it. Hawaii was considering a state law that would allow Obama's birth certificate to be released. In fact, it would have made it available to anyone requesting a copy for a fee of $100 I think. But as far as I know that bill did not go anywhere.

Back when Barry was born in Kenya, the affluent Grandparents just had to call the papers to announce his birth.

Yeah, because they had the foresight to say "Oh boy our newborn Grandson out of Kenya is going to run for President one day, so we better start lying now so that he can fool everyone into believing he's a natural born citizen!"

This kind of thinking is absolute insanity!

Then they went to get a certificate of live birth, similar to the crap that Barry had on his web site during his marathon campaign where he spent 730 million dollars in 2 years to buy the Presidency.

So your entire argument is that Obama's grandparents initiated a massive conspiracy when Obama was born, which has continued to perpetuate, up to 2007 when Obama obtained a "fake" birth certificate from the state of Hawaii, up to 2009 when the director of the Hawaii State Department of Health publicly attested that she held the thing with her own hands, to this very day, and beyond? How is this anything but the ramblings of a madman?

Is anyone really surprised that he is addicted to spending everyone else's money? Anyone that paid attention to his spending during the campaign knew what he was going to be like.

What does Obama's spending habits have to do with him being born in the USA? I, for one, dislike Obama as President altogether. But you birthers are doing nothing but strengthening him, because everyone who is against Obama is lumped together with your lunacy.

 

[GStarz]

Correct.

Uh, excuse me, but in point of fact we do not know the precise details of his place of birth, because as even liberal chris matthews has pointed out, the COLB isnl;t worth the ink it's printed with, and big, brave, world-changing Obama is too much of a pussy to not only release his birth certificate, but is fighting in court to keep it hidden from the people who are paying hos lawyers to do it. That's a hell of a big difference from "he was born in hawaii,.... yes that's correct.' Jesus, how many ways can people portray the concept of stupid? Mockery does not an argument make. Say a little reality, stop mocking the birthers and if you would like to win for a change, cough up a fact or two that can be qualified substantially.

Were does Chris Matthews say that the COLB isn't worth the ink it is printed on? That's not what he said in that 4:26 youtube video you posted.

Cut the crap: They say it's missing vital information and all three people, matthews and his 2 liberal guests, wind up agreeing that obama should stop fighting the suits and release his long form. People should watch for themselves and not take your word for it, because your word is bullshit. Who are you talking to, anyway? me? i know the difference. I'm guessing you're purpose is to keep morale up, and that's good - they fall all the harder when Obama starts making up excuses to get around whichever states pass the laws.

It's a disgusting effort by you rolled up in a flag of liberal nobility, but it's still a losing argument on a giant scale.

LIBERAL ANTI-BIRTHERS = EPIC FAIL

 

[DiveCon]

Uh, excuse me, but in point of fact we do not know the precise details of his place of birth, because as even liberal chris matthews has pointed out, the COLB isnl;t worth the ink it's printed with, and big, brave, world-changing Obama is too much of a pussy to not only release his birth certificate, but is fighting in court to keep it hidden from the people who are paying hos lawyers to do it. That's a hell of a big difference from "he was born in hawaii,.... yes that's correct.' Jesus, how many ways can people portray the concept of stupid? Mockery does not an argument make. Say a little reality, stop mocking the birthers and if you would like to win for a change, cough up a fact or two that can be qualified substantially.

Were does Chris Matthews say that the COLB isn't worth the ink it is printed on? That's not what he said in that 4:26 youtube video you posted.

Cut the crap: They say it's missing vital information and all three people, matthews and his 2 liberal guests, wind up agreeing that obama should stop fighting the suits and release his long form. People should watch for themselves and not take your word for it, because your word is bullshit. Who are you talking to, anyway? me? i know the difference. I'm guessing you're purpose is to keep morale up, and that's good - they fall all the harder when Obama starts making up excuses to get around whichever states pass the laws.

It's a disgusting effort by you rolled up in a flag of liberal nobility, but it's still a losing argument on a giant scale.

LIBERAL ANTI-BIRTHERS = EPIC FAIL

you moron, Obama is playing you for fools
dont you understand he is refusing to release it because of fools like YOU
that way he can paint all his opposition as wackaloons like YOU
you guys should STFU