Nam vets didnt deserve what they got

[9thIDdoc]

perhaps one should focus on the true problems of returning vets today.......instead of focusing on a past problems that nothing can be done about....

And perhaps that would be more appropriate in a thread not specifically discussing Vietnam Vet problems.

 

[The Gadfly]

perhaps one should focus on the true problems of returning vets today.......instead of focusing on a past problems that nothing can be done about....

According to Namvet's post #111, it's still a problem; anti-war protesters attacking vets on the streets of America.

Seems to be the problem remains the same now as then. Why is this? I think it's displaced aggression. Kick-the-cat syndrome. Anti-war protesters taking out their frustrations against a government at war by attacking fellow Americans who serve in the military. If the anti-war protesters really wanted to voice their displeasure directly, they'd go spit on any Congressman who voted for the war or voted to support funding for it.

That's the best idea I've seen yet in this wretched thread; if you hate whatever today's war is, how about taking it out on the politicians who started it, instead of the soldiers who have to fight it. I don't recall any of our civilian commanders who sent us to Vietnam ever asking us beforehand whether we thought it was a good idea or not, and I haven't heard of today's soldiers being asked either. If you MUST spit, curse, or throw garbage, use a congresscritter for a target, instead of a soldier!

 

[The Gadfly]

perhaps one should focus on the true problems of returning vets today.......instead of focusing on a past problems that nothing can be done about....

That's the first thing you've said in this thread that makes any sense; in fact, it makes so much sense, that if someone doesn't beat me to it, I'm going to start a separate thread just for that, because it deserves its own discussion, apart from this thread. As for the past, the only thing anyone can do about that, is learn from it, especially those things which are a shining example of how NOT to treat returning vets (the CURRENT incident shown in Namvet's post is a case in point).

 

[Againsheila]

perhaps one should focus on the true problems of returning vets today.......instead of focusing on a past problems that nothing can be done about....

Is that an admission that you were wrong? Otherwise, you're in the wrong thread.

 

[The Gadfly]

i am not speaking of welcoming problems.....i am speaking of the more long term and far reaching problems with the returning wounded....they need much more support than they are getting.....thankfully concessions have been re classed and are being taken more seriously by the military now...so many of the wounded suffered head and spine injuries...


Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is commonly experienced by veterans and others who have survived traumatic events. It is characterized by hypervigilance, avoidance, numbing, and re-experiencing of the traumatic event (Friedman 2006). The unique nature of the OIF/OEF conflicts, which include multiple and lengthy deployments, urban warfare, terrorist attacks, and the ever present threat from roadside bombs, places special burdens on military service members. Therefore it is not surprising that PTSD is being reported in substantial numbers in returning service members (Friedman 2006; Seal et al. 2007).

Traumatic brain injury (TBI) has been called the "signature injury" of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. TBI can cause attention, memory, and language problems as well as headaches, sleep disturbances, and personality changes (Okie 2005). Most OEF/OIF traumatic brain injuries result in what is referred to as closed injuries (no penetration of the skull) which Kevlar helmets cannot protect against (Warden 2005; Okie 2005). Closed traumatic brain injuries may not cause any outward physical signs or symptoms so if the case is mild, it may go unrecognized and untreated (President's Commission on Care for America's Returning Wounded Warriors 2007a).

A Guide to Resources for Seriously Wounded...Veterans

Fixed that for you; discussion of this and other issues affecting returning vets from current conflicts can be found in the "When soldiers come home from War" thread.

 

[Truthseeker420]

who called them babay killers? you sure that wasn't right wing propaganda?

 

[The Gadfly]

who called them babay killers? you sure that wasn't right wing propaganda?

Since I and other Vietnam vets have been called that many times, and since I've personally been called that several times on this board (see my post on the previous page) and since the people who said it were NOT what I would call "conservatives", yeah, I'm pretty damn sure of the sources, and they definitely were NOT "right wing".

 

[AquaAthena]

who called them babay killers? you sure that wasn't right wing propaganda?

Since I and other Vietnam vets have been called that many times, and since I've personally been called that several times on this board (see my post on the previous page) and since the people who said it were NOT what I would call "conservatives", yeah, I'm pretty damn sure of the sources, and they definitely were NOT "right wing".

Thanks to all of our soldiers here for sharing their stories and to all others who have fought the horrors of war. I do have a question:

Of the two moives I have recently seen, on DVD, which one most accurately describes the Vietnam experience: Full Metal Jacket or Platoon.

Thanks for any response.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Movies? "WE WERE SOLDIERS ONCE.." with Mel Gibson

 

[Divine Wind]

who called them babay killers? you sure that wasn't right wing propaganda?

"Baby killers" was a common phrase being bandied about by the press in writing about the anti-war protests when I was an Army brat growing up on the 1960s. Was it true? Well, if you can believe the "liberal" press it was. Since I never attended any anti-war rallies as a 12 year old, I can't say for sure whether the press was lying, embellishing or telling the truth.

What do you think?

Baby Killers by Barnett Hoffman - VVA Chapter 951 - Lakeport, California.

Online NewsHour: Remembering Vietnam: Days of Protest

From his hospital bed, Corey watched the anti-war movement grow on television. And he couldn't believe what he saw.

"I was angry at the people protesting the war," he said. "I just felt the [protesters'] energies were directed the wrong way when they were attacking these soldiers and the people who were protesting and calling us things that a lot of us weren't -- baby killers and all of that."

For Corey, those shouting at returning servicemen were not only mocking the men in front of them, but also those that remained on Vietnam's battlefields.

"I left friends behind and I never found out what happened to them. And I lost a lot of friends," Corey said. "When I did return and watch the TV and what was going on, I was very angry."

 

[AquaAthena]

Movies? "WE WERE SOLDIERS ONCE.." with Mel Gibson

Just checked out some 5 star reviews of the film you recommend: "We Were Soldiers." Seems as if everyone agrees with you that this is the one. At Amazon the top two reviews are enough to make me want to see this film. Here is a snip from the first review and the rest of it can be found at Amazon.com. Thanks so much for recommending this to me. It doesn't speak too well of Platoon.

"I live with a Vietnam Vet who served in the late 1960s with 1st Cav. Medivac. During service he earned two Purple Hearts, the Distinguished Flying Cross, and the Air Medal. Since WE WERE SOLDIERS concerns the 1st Cav., Randy wanted to see it. I reluctantly agreed; I am not partial to war films and I dislike Mel Gibson, and Randy is very hard on Vietnam War films. He dismisses PLATOON as a Hollywood 8x10 glossy; says APOCALYPSE NOW is an interesting movie that captures the paranoia, but all the technical details are wrong; and describes DEER HUNTER as excellent in its depiction of the strangeness of coming home but so full of plot holes that he can hardly endure it. And about one and all he says: "It wasn't like that."

"He was silent through the film, and when we left the theatre I asked what he thought. He said, "They finally got it. That's what it was like. All the details are right. The actors were just like the men I knew. They looked like that and they talked like that. And the army wives too, they really were like that, at least every one I ever knew." The he was silent for a long time. At last he said, "You remember the scene where the guy tries to pick up a burn victim by the legs and all the skin slides off? Something like that happened to me once. It was at a helicopter crash. I went to pick him up and all the skin just slid right off. It looked just like that, too. I've never told any one about it."

Much more: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/We-Were-Soldiers/product-reviews/B000J1AGQI/ref=atv_sr_review_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1]Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: We Were Soldiers[/ame]

 

[freedombecki]

Thanks, guys and dolls. I just went to Amazon and ordered the book "We Were Soldiers Once."

I just finished reading "From Huntsville to Hell," by Guy Wendell Hogue, 2005, AuthorHouse, Bloomington, Indiana, last week. It's about a local legend, LTC M. B. Etheridge and the men of K Company 30th Inf. 3rd Div. in WWII. It was riveting.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Movies? "WE WERE SOLDIERS ONCE.." with Mel Gibson

Just checked out some 5 star reviews of the film you recommend: "We Were Soldiers." Seems as if everyone agrees with you that this is the one. At Amazon the top two reviews are enough to make me want to see this film. Here is a snip from the first review and the rest of it can be found at Amazon.com. Thanks so much for recommending this to me. It doesn't speak too well of Platoon.

"I live with a Vietnam Vet who served in the late 1960s with 1st Cav. Medivac. During service he earned two Purple Hearts, the Distinguished Flying Cross, and the Air Medal. Since WE WERE SOLDIERS concerns the 1st Cav., Randy wanted to see it. I reluctantly agreed; I am not partial to war films and I dislike Mel Gibson, and Randy is very hard on Vietnam War films. He dismisses PLATOON as a Hollywood 8x10 glossy; says APOCALYPSE NOW is an interesting movie that captures the paranoia, but all the technical details are wrong; and describes DEER HUNTER as excellent in its depiction of the strangeness of coming home but so full of plot holes that he can hardly endure it. And about one and all he says: "It wasn't like that."

"He was silent through the film, and when we left the theatre I asked what he thought. He said, "They finally got it. That's what it was like. All the details are right. The actors were just like the men I knew. They looked like that and they talked like that. And the army wives too, they really were like that, at least every one I ever knew." The he was silent for a long time. At last he said, "You remember the scene where the guy tries to pick up a burn victim by the legs and all the skin slides off? Something like that happened to me once. It was at a helicopter crash. I went to pick him up and all the skin just slid right off. It looked just like that, too. I've never told any one about it."

Much more: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/We-Were-Soldiers/product-reviews/B000J1AGQI/ref=atv_sr_review_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1]Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: We Were Soldiers[/ame]

We Were Soldiers is excellent........As was Saving Private Ryan when it comes to showing what battle is really all about.

 

[AquaAthena]

Movies? "WE WERE SOLDIERS ONCE.." with Mel Gibson

Just checked out some 5 star reviews of the film you recommend: "We Were Soldiers." Seems as if everyone agrees with you that this is the one. At Amazon the top two reviews are enough to make me want to see this film. Here is a snip from the first review and the rest of it can be found at Amazon.com. Thanks so much for recommending this to me. It doesn't speak too well of Platoon.

"I live with a Vietnam Vet who served in the late 1960s with 1st Cav. Medivac. During service he earned two Purple Hearts, the Distinguished Flying Cross, and the Air Medal. Since WE WERE SOLDIERS concerns the 1st Cav., Randy wanted to see it. I reluctantly agreed; I am not partial to war films and I dislike Mel Gibson, and Randy is very hard on Vietnam War films. He dismisses PLATOON as a Hollywood 8x10 glossy; says APOCALYPSE NOW is an interesting movie that captures the paranoia, but all the technical details are wrong; and describes DEER HUNTER as excellent in its depiction of the strangeness of coming home but so full of plot holes that he can hardly endure it. And about one and all he says: "It wasn't like that."

"He was silent through the film, and when we left the theatre I asked what he thought. He said, "They finally got it. That's what it was like. All the details are right. The actors were just like the men I knew. They looked like that and they talked like that. And the army wives too, they really were like that, at least every one I ever knew." The he was silent for a long time. At last he said, "You remember the scene where the guy tries to pick up a burn victim by the legs and all the skin slides off? Something like that happened to me once. It was at a helicopter crash. I went to pick him up and all the skin just slid right off. It looked just like that, too. I've never told any one about it."

Much more: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/We-Were-Soldiers/product-reviews/B000J1AGQI/ref=atv_sr_review_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1]Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: We Were Soldiers[/ame]

We Were Soldiers is excellent........As was Saving Private Ryan when it comes to showing what battle is really all about.

The reviews mention that one, too. Also "Deer Hunter" for the `Nam experience of war and coming home from it. Have to see that one too. ( kind of what the OP is referencing )

 

[Wicked Jester]

Just checked out some 5 star reviews of the film you recommend: "We Were Soldiers." Seems as if everyone agrees with you that this is the one. At Amazon the top two reviews are enough to make me want to see this film. Here is a snip from the first review and the rest of it can be found at Amazon.com. Thanks so much for recommending this to me. It doesn't speak too well of Platoon.

"I live with a Vietnam Vet who served in the late 1960s with 1st Cav. Medivac. During service he earned two Purple Hearts, the Distinguished Flying Cross, and the Air Medal. Since WE WERE SOLDIERS concerns the 1st Cav., Randy wanted to see it. I reluctantly agreed; I am not partial to war films and I dislike Mel Gibson, and Randy is very hard on Vietnam War films. He dismisses PLATOON as a Hollywood 8x10 glossy; says APOCALYPSE NOW is an interesting movie that captures the paranoia, but all the technical details are wrong; and describes DEER HUNTER as excellent in its depiction of the strangeness of coming home but so full of plot holes that he can hardly endure it. And about one and all he says: "It wasn't like that."

"He was silent through the film, and when we left the theatre I asked what he thought. He said, "They finally got it. That's what it was like. All the details are right. The actors were just like the men I knew. They looked like that and they talked like that. And the army wives too, they really were like that, at least every one I ever knew." The he was silent for a long time. At last he said, "You remember the scene where the guy tries to pick up a burn victim by the legs and all the skin slides off? Something like that happened to me once. It was at a helicopter crash. I went to pick him up and all the skin just slid right off. It looked just like that, too. I've never told any one about it."

Much more: Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: We Were Soldiers

We Were Soldiers is excellent........As was Saving Private Ryan when it comes to showing what battle is really all about.

The reviews mention that one, too. Also "Deer Hunter" for the `Nam experience of war and coming home from it. Have to see that one too. ( kind of what the OP is referencing )

I watched Deer Hunter one time. Good movie, but, my oldest brother was executed by the VC while a POW. The captive scenes hit too close to home. We still don't have his body, and only know he was executed because a senior officer who was also being held, and eventually escaped, witnessed it.

 

[9thIDdoc]

Rats! Got em nice n fat and then forgot to eat em. It's horrible being absent-minded.

 

[editec]

FWIW I think Full Metal Jacket was an insult to all veterans.

 

[Divine Wind]

FWIW I think Full Metal Jacket was an insult to all veterans.

The first half was very good right up until before PVT Lawrence shoots GYSGT Hartmen, then it turns stupid.

Two good books about Viet Nam that I like were James Webbs "Fields of Fire" and Philip Caputo's "A Rumor of War".

I saw the entire war as an Army brat graduating high school in 1974 and signing up for the Marine Corps in the fall of that year. The saddest case I remember was when my neighbors in base housing, the father of six, was killed in a chopper crash. The Army gave them 30 days to move out. I was in seventh grade and one of the kids was my friend. My dad did two tours there as an Army pilot. Most of his unit came back, but not all in one piece.

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Fields-Fire-James-Webb/dp/0553583859]Amazon.com: Fields of Fire (9780553583854): James Webb: Books[/ame]

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Rumor-War-Philip-Caputo/dp/080504695X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1319891636&sr=1-1]Amazon.com: A Rumor of War (9780805046953): Philip Caputo: Books[/ame]

 

[namvet]

who called them babay killers? you sure that wasn't right wing propaganda?

Since I and other Vietnam vets have been called that many times, and since I've personally been called that several times on this board (see my post on the previous page) and since the people who said it were NOT what I would call "conservatives", yeah, I'm pretty damn sure of the sources, and they definitely were NOT "right wing".

Thanks to all of our soldiers here for sharing their stories and to all others who have fought the horrors of war. I do have a question:

Of the two moives I have recently seen, on DVD, which one most accurately describes the Vietnam experience: Full Metal Jacket or Platoon.

Thanks for any response.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBfZ4Jj09Fc]Full Metal Jacket - First 5 Minutes - YouTube[/ame]

 

[The Gadfly]

Movies? "WE WERE SOLDIERS ONCE.." with Mel Gibson

Just checked out some 5 star reviews of the film you recommend: "We Were Soldiers." Seems as if everyone agrees with you that this is the one. At Amazon the top two reviews are enough to make me want to see this film. Here is a snip from the first review and the rest of it can be found at Amazon.com. Thanks so much for recommending this to me. It doesn't speak too well of Platoon.

"I live with a Vietnam Vet who served in the late 1960s with 1st Cav. Medivac. During service he earned two Purple Hearts, the Distinguished Flying Cross, and the Air Medal. Since WE WERE SOLDIERS concerns the 1st Cav., Randy wanted to see it. I reluctantly agreed; I am not partial to war films and I dislike Mel Gibson, and Randy is very hard on Vietnam War films. He dismisses PLATOON as a Hollywood 8x10 glossy; says APOCALYPSE NOW is an interesting movie that captures the paranoia, but all the technical details are wrong; and describes DEER HUNTER as excellent in its depiction of the strangeness of coming home but so full of plot holes that he can hardly endure it. And about one and all he says: "It wasn't like that."

"He was silent through the film, and when we left the theatre I asked what he thought. He said, "They finally got it. That's what it was like. All the details are right. The actors were just like the men I knew. They looked like that and they talked like that. And the army wives too, they really were like that, at least every one I ever knew." The he was silent for a long time. At last he said, "You remember the scene where the guy tries to pick up a burn victim by the legs and all the skin slides off? Something like that happened to me once. It was at a helicopter crash. I went to pick him up and all the skin just slid right off. It looked just like that, too. I've never told any one about it."

Much more: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/We-Were-Soldiers/product-reviews/B000J1AGQI/ref=atv_sr_review_cm_cr_acr_txt?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1]Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: We Were Soldiers[/ame]

We Were Soldiers is excellent........As was Saving Private Ryan when it comes to showing what battle is really all about.

That's what I've heard from most of the guys who have seen We Were Soldiers; I haven't watched any of the movies about Vietnam, and don't want to; the real thing (and the nightmares and flashbacks) was more than enough for me. I can vouch for Saving Private Ryan (which I have seen) as being a very good depiction of what combat in general is like, at least as close as a movie can come to that.