My views have changed...

[TemplarKormac]

Nine years ago, I was a neo-conservative die hard Republican. Then my views changed, I became a bit more moderate. When I became disgusted with the Republican party altogether, I became a minarchist libertarian... but now, my views based on the observations of the world have led me to become a classical liberal. I feel like my stances have evolved to more closely reflect that than anything else. It might be the closest thing I can get to keep myself out of two party politics.

Am I renouncing my conservatism? Not necessarily. I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others, and I feel like the time for experimentation is over. This is the culmination of all the ideas and stances I have assimilated from the those past 9 years. Free thought is a wonderful thing. Objectivity is liberating. I'm glad I can change my views when a better argument is made. But enough gloating. See you later.

-Etherion, A Newly Minted Classical Liberal

Fuck off, Jake

I resent that insinuation, Frank.

Etherion

Pogo is right and I apologize for jumping you. I remember when you posted that you felt you had been wrong about marriage equality and yes, I do agree with Pogo that that takes some courage.

What I also remember is times when you seemed to agree with me that we're all in this together. We need to hold a hand out to the less fortunate. Or, as the saying that's being passed around now says, a high tide lifts all boats, or something like that.

Good for you. I mean that and I really do apologize.

That also took courage to do Luddly. I appreciate your candor and graciously accept your apology. No harm, no foul.

 

[TemplarKormac]

People who admire Donald Trump are Republicans.

Who said I admired Donald Trump? Isn't that a rather presumptive thing to say?

I did not imply that you admire Trump but to clarify the issue. If a person thinks Trump is great then this defines a Republican.

I still think that's rather presumptuous. But that's just me.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I am a lifelong independent that votes for the person, not the party.

Pretty dumb, as the person generally brings the party with him.

I disagree.

I was Dem in my 20s, worked for Dick Lamm in Colorado, then found a life long friend in Dave Nolan and was one of the original people who drank a lot of wine and decided Libertarian was gospel.

Then Independent, Dave and wife Elizabeth who was also a very close friend, moved to Tucson, we spent a lot of time together and we both changed. When he died, I had already escaped from the abusive alcoholic I was married to, had left Tcsn. Elizabeth and I are still in contact and the one thing that has changed for me is that I will never again vote Republican.

But, there were times when I did and I was registered Indy for many years.

 

[TemplarKormac]

In case you miss it above, I honestly and sincerely apologize. I also apologize for not giving you the same space, the same benefit of the doubt that I take pride in giving others.

Like you, I'm working on making changes.

May you reach the goal you seek, Luddly. I feel like I have, at least where my ideals are concerned anyway. It takes guts to do thorough self introspection. Seems like you have them. Keep it up.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Nine years ago, I was a neo-conservative die hard Republican. Then my views changed, I became a bit more moderate. When I became disgusted with the Republican party altogether, I became a minarchist libertarian... but now, my views based on the observations of the world have led me to become a classical liberal. I feel like my stances have evolved to more closely reflect that than anything else. It might be the closest thing I can get to keep myself out of two party politics.

Am I renouncing my conservatism? Not necessarily. I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others, and I feel like the time for experimentation is over. This is the culmination of all the ideas and stances I have assimilated from the those past 9 years. Free thought is a wonderful thing. Objectivity is liberating. I'm glad I can change my views when a better argument is made. But enough gloating. See you later.

-Etherion, A Newly Minted Classical Liberal

Fuck off, Jake

I resent that insinuation, Frank.

Etherion

Pogo is right and I apologize for jumping you. I remember when you posted that you felt you had been wrong about marriage equality and yes, I do agree with Pogo that that takes some courage.

What I also remember is times when you seemed to agree with me that we're all in this together. We need to hold a hand out to the less fortunate. Or, as the saying that's being passed around now says, a high tide lifts all boats, or something like that.

Good for you. I mean that and I really do apologize.

That also took courage to do Luddly. I appreciate your candor and graciously accept your apology. No harm, no foul.

In my saner moments, I want to reach across the R - L aisle and find common ground. I have always believed and still do believe that we all have much more in common than we have differences.

I believe all people, right and left, American and other - we're all just trying to find our way, live our lives the best way we can, the best way they can.

But I have no idea how to make that happen. Not a clue.

 

[TemplarKormac]

But I have no idea how to make that happen. Not a clue.

You and I both. But like the many incidental discoveries made throughout history, maybe we will happen upon a solution.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Nine years ago, I was a neo-conservative die hard Republican. Then my views changed, I became a bit more moderate. When I became disgusted with the Republican party altogether, I became a minarchist libertarian... but now, my views based on the observations of the world have led me to become a classical liberal. I feel like my stances have evolved to more closely reflect that than anything else. It might be the closest thing I can get to keep myself out of two party politics.

Am I renouncing my conservatism? Not necessarily. I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others, and I feel like the time for experimentation is over. This is the culmination of all the ideas and stances I have assimilated from the those past 9 years. Free thought is a wonderful thing. Objectivity is liberating. I'm glad I can change my views when a better argument is made. But enough gloating. See you later.

-Etherion, A Newly Minted Classical Liberal

Fuck off, Jake

I resent that insinuation, Frank.

That was the whole fricking point

 

[TemplarKormac]

Nine years ago, I was a neo-conservative die hard Republican. Then my views changed, I became a bit more moderate. When I became disgusted with the Republican party altogether, I became a minarchist libertarian... but now, my views based on the observations of the world have led me to become a classical liberal. I feel like my stances have evolved to more closely reflect that than anything else. It might be the closest thing I can get to keep myself out of two party politics.

Am I renouncing my conservatism? Not necessarily. I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others, and I feel like the time for experimentation is over. This is the culmination of all the ideas and stances I have assimilated from the those past 9 years. Free thought is a wonderful thing. Objectivity is liberating. I'm glad I can change my views when a better argument is made. But enough gloating. See you later.

-Etherion, A Newly Minted Classical Liberal

Fuck off, Jake

I resent that insinuation, Frank.

That was the whole fricking point

What are you talking about?

 

[Luddly Neddite]

In case you miss it above, I honestly and sincerely apologize. I also apologize for not giving you the same space, the same benefit of the doubt that I take pride in giving others.

Like you, I'm working on making changes.

May you reach the goal you seek, Luddly. I feel like I have, at least where my ideals are concerned anyway. It takes guts to do thorough self introspection. Seems like you have them. Keep it up.

hmmm ... well, I'm 70 yo and have lots of time to do that. And really, if I remember right, you're about 30. If so, you will likely change the outer covering a few times, change and adjust, tuck that in and pull this out but, IMO, you are pretty well fixed right where you are.

What will never change for me is the commitment I feel to leave the planet a better place for having been here.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Sigh. I knew this would happen. As soon as I did it, people who once agreed with me and like me now hate and revile me. A simple shift in ideology can easily sway the hearts of men it seems.

I'm sorry, but this is who I am. However, I am the furthest thing from being a Democrat or Republican. I drew upon a lot of wisdom and self introspection to arrive at this point.

 

[Pogo]

People who admire Donald Trump are Republicans.

Who said I admired Donald Trump? Isn't that a rather presumptive thing to say?

I did not imply that you admire Trump but to clarify the issue. If a person thinks Trump is great then this defines a Republican.

Hardly. There are plenty of Republicans who can't stand the Big Orange. Some of them (thinking George WIll) have abandoned the party altogether for its bending over for him.

Rump's appeal is purely emotional, not political. As his own fraudulent "university" told its henchmen in its playbook, "you don't sell solutions-- you sell feelings". That's exactly what Rump did in every speech, every interview and every tweet. Quite a few Republicans were and still are intelligent enough to know a con artist when they saw one.

 

[Pogo]

Nine years ago, I was a neo-conservative die hard Republican. Then my views changed, I became a bit more moderate. When I became disgusted with the Republican party altogether, I became a minarchist liberal. I feel like my stances have evolved to more closely reflect that than anything else. It might be the closest thing I can get to keep myself out of two party politics.

Am I renouncing my conservatism? Not necessarily. I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others, and I feel like the time for experimentation is over. This is the culmination of all the ideas and stances I have assimilated from the those past 9 years. Free thought is a wonderful thing. Objectivity is liberating. I'm glad I can change my views when a better argument is made. But enough gloating. See you later.

-Etherion, A Newly Minted Classical Liberal

An American Conservative is a Classical Liberal.......

"Classical Liberal" is a bullshit term made up as a pretext to redefine Liberal into its own opposite. Or to whatever perverse association fallacies invoked in the Red Scare/McCarthy daze. Liberal is Liberal is Liberal. It does not mean "left", it does not mean "Democrat", it does not mean "conservative" and it does not mean "big gummint". It does mean the philosophy that birthed this country and wrote its Constitution. And they were anything but conservatives. Those would be the loyalists who sided with the ideas of monarchy and ruling class over serfs.

The bullshitious who want to hijack the term "Liberal", sometimes to demonize it, other times as here to climb on the bandwagon and steal credit for it, are invariably those who have issues with the ideas IN that Liberal Constitution. The poster above being a ready example.

Sorry.....the definitions changed....mainly because the left wing keeps trying to hide their agenda behind new names.....today, "Liberal" refers to left wing members who believe in big government....the exact opposite of the founders....that is why "Classical Liberal" has to be used...to let people know we are talking about the philosophy of the founders...not modern left wingers.....

No Spunky, definitions don't "change" --- they get hijacked. As I just described and you just demonstrated.

"Liberal" has never meant "left wing". I just said that in the previous post. Maybe you should actually quit flapping your gums long enough to actually read it.

But hey, thanks for the swell role-play demo of exactly the kind of rigid inflexible thought-prison we're talking about here in the negative.

 

[Eloy]

People who admire Donald Trump are Republicans.

Who said I admired Donald Trump? Isn't that a rather presumptive thing to say?

I did not imply that you admire Trump but to clarify the issue. If a person thinks Trump is great then this defines a Republican.

Hardly. There are plenty of Republicans who can't stand the Big Orange. Some of them (thinking George WIll) have abandoned the party altogether for its bending over for him.

Rump's appeal is purely emotional, not political. As his own fraudulent "university" told its henchmen in its playbook, "you don't sell solutions-- you sell feelings". That's exactly what Rump did in every speech, every interview and every tweet. Quite a few Republicans were and still are intelligent enough to know a con artist when they saw one.

This is my point; Republicans who identified with the Grand Ol' Party have no support for what the party has become. The Republican party of Eisenhower has been destroyed in our lifetime. It has been taken-over by crass Christian fundamentalists, NRA fanatics, New York corporation executives, and what have you. It is a shame.

 

[miketx]

So does this mean you'll even be working for a living?

I mean, that IS what liberals do while RWs tend to live off others.

There it is...biggest lie today.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Nine years ago, I was a neo-conservative die hard Republican. Then my views changed, I became a bit more moderate. When I became disgusted with the Republican party altogether, I became a minarchist libertarian... but now, my views based on the observations of the world have led me to become a classical liberal. I feel like my stances have evolved to more closely reflect that than anything else. It might be the closest thing I can get to keep myself out of two party politics.

Am I renouncing my conservatism? Not necessarily. I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others, and I feel like the time for experimentation is over. This is the culmination of all the ideas and stances I have assimilated from the those past 9 years. Free thought is a wonderful thing. Objectivity is liberating. I'm glad I can change my views when a better argument is made. But enough gloating. See you later.

-Etherion, A Newly Minted Classical Liberal

Fuck off, Jake

I resent that insinuation, Frank.

That was the whole fricking point

Ahh, so it was sarcasm. Apparently I can't take jokes anymore. I must apologize. I get it now.

 

[Pogo]

Nine years ago, I was a neo-conservative die hard Republican. Then my views changed, I became a bit more moderate. When I became disgusted with the Republican party altogether, I became a minarchist libertarian... but now, my views based on the observations of the world have led me to become a classical liberal. I feel like my stances have evolved to more closely reflect that than anything else. It might be the closest thing I can get to keep myself out of two party politics.

Am I renouncing my conservatism? Not necessarily. I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others, and I feel like the time for experimentation is over. This is the culmination of all the ideas and stances I have assimilated from the those past 9 years. Free thought is a wonderful thing. Objectivity is liberating. I'm glad I can change my views when a better argument is made. But enough gloating. See you later.

-Etherion, A Newly Minted Classical Liberal

Fuck off, Jake

I resent that insinuation, Frank.

That was the whole fricking point

Ahh, so it was sarcasm. Apparently I can't take jokes anymore. I must apologize. I get it now.

Don't worry --- I STILL don't get it.

That seems to happen a lot when Frank's around...

 

[Pogo]

People who admire Donald Trump are Republicans.

Who said I admired Donald Trump? Isn't that a rather presumptive thing to say?

I did not imply that you admire Trump but to clarify the issue. If a person thinks Trump is great then this defines a Republican.

Hardly. There are plenty of Republicans who can't stand the Big Orange. Some of them (thinking George WIll) have abandoned the party altogether for its bending over for him.

Rump's appeal is purely emotional, not political. As his own fraudulent "university" told its henchmen in its playbook, "you don't sell solutions-- you sell feelings". That's exactly what Rump did in every speech, every interview and every tweet. Quite a few Republicans were and still are intelligent enough to know a con artist when they saw one.

This is my point; Republicans who identified with the Grand Ol' Party have no support for what the party has become. The Republican party of Eisenhower has been destroyed in our lifetime. It has been taken-over by crass Christian fundamentalists, NRA fanatics, New York corporation executives, and what have you. It is a shame.

Well hell, Barry Goldwater saw that coming. Rump didn't bring that in -- it goes back at least to Jerry Falwell.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Nine years ago, I was a neo-conservative die hard Republican. Then my views changed, I became a bit more moderate. When I became disgusted with the Republican party altogether, I became a minarchist liberal. I feel like my stances have evolved to more closely reflect that than anything else. It might be the closest thing I can get to keep myself out of two party politics.

Am I renouncing my conservatism? Not necessarily. I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others, and I feel like the time for experimentation is over. This is the culmination of all the ideas and stances I have assimilated from the those past 9 years. Free thought is a wonderful thing. Objectivity is liberating. I'm glad I can change my views when a better argument is made. But enough gloating. See you later.

-Etherion, A Newly Minted Classical Liberal

An American Conservative is a Classical Liberal.......

"Classical Liberal" is a bullshit term made up as a pretext to redefine Liberal into its own opposite. Or to whatever perverse association fallacies invoked in the Red Scare/McCarthy daze. Liberal is Liberal is Liberal. It does not mean "left", it does not mean "Democrat", it does not mean "conservative" and it does not mean "big gummint". It does mean the philosophy that birthed this country and wrote its Constitution. And they were anything but conservatives. Those would be the loyalists who sided with the ideas of monarchy and ruling class over serfs.

The bullshitious who want to hijack the term "Liberal", sometimes to demonize it, other times as here to climb on the bandwagon and steal credit for it, are invariably those who have issues with the ideas IN that Liberal Constitution. The poster above being a ready example.

Sorry.....the definitions changed....mainly because the left wing keeps trying to hide their agenda behind new names.....today, "Liberal" refers to left wing members who believe in big government....the exact opposite of the founders....that is why "Classical Liberal" has to be used...to let people know we are talking about the philosophy of the founders...not modern left wingers.....

No Spunky, definitions don't "change" --- they get hijacked. As I just described and you just demonstrated.

"Liberal" has never meant "left wing". I just said that in the previous post. Maybe you should actually quit flapping your gums long enough to actually read it.

But hey, thanks for the swell role-play demo of exactly the kind of rigid inflexible thought-prison we're talking about here in the negative.

Yes, true.

Its the same with Republican and Democrat, Progressive, Regressive, Liberal and Conservative.

What happened to the Conservatives? Where did they go? Is that how Etherion ended up where he is now?

Or, all the times the RWs say its the Dems who were racist back then so its all their fault.

Or, we all know it was the crazy, treasonous liberals who fought the conservatives for a new country.

Progressive. There was a time when repubs were progressive. They wanted to see the country move forward, advance, pro-gress. Not any more. Now the Repubs want a new Dark Ages and sharia law.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Nine years ago, I was a neo-conservative die hard Republican. Then my views changed, I became a bit more moderate. When I became disgusted with the Republican party altogether, I became a minarchist libertarian... but now, my views based on the observations of the world have led me to become a classical liberal. I feel like my stances have evolved to more closely reflect that than anything else. It might be the closest thing I can get to keep myself out of two party politics.

Am I renouncing my conservatism? Not necessarily. I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others, and I feel like the time for experimentation is over. This is the culmination of all the ideas and stances I have assimilated from the those past 9 years. Free thought is a wonderful thing. Objectivity is liberating. I'm glad I can change my views when a better argument is made. But enough gloating. See you later.

-Etherion, A Newly Minted Classical Liberal

Fuck off, Jake

I resent that insinuation, Frank.

That was the whole fricking point

Ahh, so it was sarcasm. Apparently I can't take jokes anymore. I must apologize. I get it now.

Don't worry --- I STILL don't get it.

That seems to happen a lot when Frank's around...

No worries. I'm no stranger to dry humor and sarcasm, it just took me some time to figure that out. This is a political board after all and emotions run rampant. You can't really tell sometimes.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Nine years ago, I was a neo-conservative die hard Republican. Then my views changed, I became a bit more moderate. When I became disgusted with the Republican party altogether, I became a minarchist libertarian... but now, my views based on the observations of the world have led me to become a classical liberal. I feel like my stances have evolved to more closely reflect that than anything else. It might be the closest thing I can get to keep myself out of two party politics.

Am I renouncing my conservatism? Not necessarily. I am conservative in some areas and liberal in others, and I feel like the time for experimentation is over. This is the culmination of all the ideas and stances I have assimilated from the those past 9 years. Free thought is a wonderful thing. Objectivity is liberating. I'm glad I can change my views when a better argument is made. But enough gloating. See you later.

-Etherion, A Newly Minted Classical Liberal

Fuck off, Jake

I resent that insinuation, Frank.

That was the whole fricking point

Ahh, so it was sarcasm. Apparently I can't take jokes anymore. I must apologize. I get it now.

Don't worry --- I STILL don't get it.

That seems to happen a lot when Frank's around...

Don't blame Frank.

Blame Ebola and Jade Helm.

And Chemtrails.