My QB top 8 of all time

[Gadawg73]

I look at Stabler like Dan Pastorini. Very good QB.....just not HOF

No freaking comparison between Stabler and Pastorini

For one - Stabler won a Super Bowl - TOTALLY OUTPLAYED FRAN TARKENTON

But for few bounces could have been the Raiders with 3 SB wins and the Stteelers 1

And Stabler was a winne rin college also ...............

Other than loving their uniforms I HATE THE FUCKING STEELERS.
Was cheering every game for RAIDERS!

 

[ginscpy]

Stabler was a pinpoint passer...........................

 

[Gadawg73]

One of my high school coaches was a 5th string QB at Bama behind all those greats over there.
But I have many relatives that went to Bama and still go there!
AWWW!!!! Hard to listen to them every holiday.
Was VERY HARD a few years ago when my son's former team mate, a kid I coached for 5 years in rec league and good friend Clemson QB Cullen Harper was chased all over the field by Bama players in the Ga. Dome. Had to listen to that crap FOR 2 YEARS.

 

[Toronado3800]

I dunno about Stabler getting in. Should Plunkett? He beat the Redskins. A Redskins team with many HOF candidates on it. Thiesman?

I would honestly take Stabler above either. Tarkenton above them both. Who were them receivers Fran completed all them passes to? I mean the guy was a Hail Mary pass away from beating an excellent Cowboy's team in the Superbowl. (Did his dad really die during the game?)

Dan Fouts? Jim Hart?

 

[Toronado3800]

OK. If Hart was QB on the Raiders they would have won their Superbowl. My vote is against Stabler, but not that much really. Boomer Esiason?

 

[rightwinger]

I dunno about Stabler getting in. Should Plunkett? He beat the Redskins. A Redskins team with many HOF candidates on it. Thiesman?

I would honestly take Stabler above either. Tarkenton above them both. Who were them receivers Fran completed all them passes to? I mean the guy was a Hail Mary pass away from beating an excellent Cowboy's team in the Superbowl. (Did his dad really die during the game?)

Dan Fouts? Jim Hart?

Tark never played the Cowboys in the Superbowl they are both NFC

Like Meridith used to say "Son of a Preacher Man"

 

[Gadawg73]

OK. If Hart was QB on the Raiders they would have won their Superbowl. My vote is against Stabler, but not that much really. Boomer Esiason?

I love this thread. Jim Hart actually was a very effective runner inside the 20 until he got in pro football. He rushed for 6 TDs on 20 some carries one year early in his career.
He was an INT machine. Dude fumbled a lot also.
But he was a winner and Cards won 10 or more games 3 straight times with 2 division championships.
Winning is what counts and Hart was a winner. NFC offensive player of the year one time.

 

[Gadawg73]

Plunkett, no.
Esiason? Big, strong and could throw it. If he had played on a different team he would already be in the Hall.

 

[rightwinger]

Plunkett, no.
Esiason? Big, strong and could throw it. If he had played on a different team he would already be in the Hall.

Maybe if he didn't play against Montana in those two Super Bowls

 

[candycorn]

I've been lobbying for Stabler as one of the best QBs of all time for years - has fallen on deaf ears..................

Belongs in the HOF

It's a hall of fame, not a hall of statistics. He found a way to win. I'd feel comfortable taking the argument as pro, not as con for Snake. I don't know about HOF...Hall of Distinguished?

 

[Gadawg73]

I've been lobbying for Stabler as one of the best QBs of all time for years - has fallen on deaf ears..................

Belongs in the HOF

It's a hall of fame, not a hall of statistics. He found a way to win. I'd feel comfortable taking the argument as pro, not as con for Snake. I don't know about HOF...Hall of Distinguished?

So every player on those winning teams should be Hall of Famers?
No. Not saying you are stating that as your only position but I have heard that argument before and I disagree with it.
Hall of Fame is about individual talent, not wins and losses. Now I do agree with you that stats should not be the only factor. And I also agree that system players that win should get a big star for that.
Try playing in different schemes with rotating coaches and see how hard it is to run up any decent stats, much less win!
But the main factor is stats. One of the few things I have liked about free agency, and there are only a few, is the fact that the criteria is what you have done, not how much you have won.

 

[Gadawg73]

Plunkett, no.
Esiason? Big, strong and could throw it. If he had played on a different team he would already be in the Hall.

Maybe if he didn't play against Montana in those two Super Bowls

Yeah, in so many ways Montana is my #1 guy all time. Of course as a season ticket holder here for so many years we saw him every year as Falcons were in the Western NFC for years. Made no sense but us and NO were in with 9ers and Rams.
On a side note I always loved seeing Ronnie Lott every year. Man, could he play. Most folks do not know how much that helps your entire front having a guy like Ronnie that can come up and PUNISH not only receivers but backs. Dude picked so many seam TE routes it was unreal. Tightens your inside backers and widens your corners. He was unreal to watch. Talk about a wood layer!

 

[spectrumc01]

The most underrated QB of all time is Jim Kelly. He did something that no other QB has ever done, and that is take his team to the Super Bowl four times in a row. I wish he had won more of those SB's I would have liked to put him higher on the list. His days in the USFL with the Houston Gamblers were also fun to watch.

 

[candycorn]

I've been lobbying for Stabler as one of the best QBs of all time for years - has fallen on deaf ears..................

Belongs in the HOF

It's a hall of fame, not a hall of statistics. He found a way to win. I'd feel comfortable taking the argument as pro, not as con for Snake. I don't know about HOF...Hall of Distinguished?

So every player on those winning teams should be Hall of Famers?
No. Not saying you are stating that as your only position but I have heard that argument before and I disagree with it.
Hall of Fame is about individual talent, not wins and losses. Now I do agree with you that stats should not be the only factor. And I also agree that system players that win should get a big star for that.
Try playing in different schemes with rotating coaches and see how hard it is to run up any decent stats, much less win!
But the main factor is stats. One of the few things I have liked about free agency, and there are only a few, is the fact that the criteria is what you have done, not how much you have won.

Yeah...thats how come I said "hall of distinguished". I don't know; I think you can make a case either way.

According to: Ken Stabler NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com:

An MVP; 4 Pro Bowls. Lead league in passing TD's twice .
28,000 Yards for the career puts him in the top 50 QBs.
Super Bowl Champion. All NFL several years.

But what I keep going back to...

Year     Age  Tm   G  GS   QBrec
1970      25 OAK   3   0        
1971      26 OAK  14   1   1-0-0
1972      27 OAK  14   1   0-1-0
1973*     28 OAK  14  11   8-2-1
1974*+    29 OAK  14  13  11-2-0
1975      30 OAK  14  13  10-3-0
1976*     31 OAK  12  12  11-1-0
1977*     32 OAK  13  13  10-3-0
1978      33 OAK  16  16   9-7-0
1979      34 OAK  16  16   9-7-0
1980      35 HOU  16  16  11-5-0
1981      36 HOU  13  12   5-7-0
1982      37 NOR   8   8   4-4-0
1983      38 NOR  14  14   7-7-0
1984      39 NOR   3   0        
Career         184 146     96-49-1

He won 75 percent of his games. So if you want to say he's not HOF material, okay. If you want to say he is, okay. I think he's probably on top of the bubble.

I noticed Freddie B is in the HOF...wow; I didn't know that.

 

[Gadawg73]

It's a hall of fame, not a hall of statistics. He found a way to win. I'd feel comfortable taking the argument as pro, not as con for Snake. I don't know about HOF...Hall of Distinguished?

So every player on those winning teams should be Hall of Famers?
No. Not saying you are stating that as your only position but I have heard that argument before and I disagree with it.
Hall of Fame is about individual talent, not wins and losses. Now I do agree with you that stats should not be the only factor. And I also agree that system players that win should get a big star for that.
Try playing in different schemes with rotating coaches and see how hard it is to run up any decent stats, much less win!
But the main factor is stats. One of the few things I have liked about free agency, and there are only a few, is the fact that the criteria is what you have done, not how much you have won.

Yeah...thats how come I said "hall of distinguished". I don't know; I think you can make a case either way.

According to: Ken Stabler NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com:

An MVP; 4 Pro Bowls. Lead league in passing TD's twice .
28,000 Yards for the career puts him in the top 50 QBs.
Super Bowl Champion. All NFL several years.

But what I keep going back to...

Year     Age  Tm   G  GS   QBrec
1970      25 OAK   3   0        
1971      26 OAK  14   1   1-0-0
1972      27 OAK  14   1   0-1-0
1973*     28 OAK  14  11   8-2-1
1974*+    29 OAK  14  13  11-2-0
1975      30 OAK  14  13  10-3-0
1976*     31 OAK  12  12  11-1-0
1977*     32 OAK  13  13  10-3-0
1978      33 OAK  16  16   9-7-0
1979      34 OAK  16  16   9-7-0
1980      35 HOU  16  16  11-5-0
1981      36 HOU  13  12   5-7-0
1982      37 NOR   8   8   4-4-0
1983      38 NOR  14  14   7-7-0
1984      39 NOR   3   0        
Career         184 146     96-49-1

He won 75 percent of his games. So if you want to say he's not HOF material, okay. If you want to say he is, okay. I think he's probably on top of the bubble.

I noticed Freddie B is in the HOF...wow; I didn't know that.

Good points. I was a huge Raiders and Snake fan. I agree.

 

[Gadawg73]

It's a hall of fame, not a hall of statistics. He found a way to win. I'd feel comfortable taking the argument as pro, not as con for Snake. I don't know about HOF...Hall of Distinguished?

So every player on those winning teams should be Hall of Famers?
No. Not saying you are stating that as your only position but I have heard that argument before and I disagree with it.
Hall of Fame is about individual talent, not wins and losses. Now I do agree with you that stats should not be the only factor. And I also agree that system players that win should get a big star for that.
Try playing in different schemes with rotating coaches and see how hard it is to run up any decent stats, much less win!
But the main factor is stats. One of the few things I have liked about free agency, and there are only a few, is the fact that the criteria is what you have done, not how much you have won.

Yeah...thats how come I said "hall of distinguished". I don't know; I think you can make a case either way.

According to: Ken Stabler NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com:

An MVP; 4 Pro Bowls. Lead league in passing TD's twice .
28,000 Yards for the career puts him in the top 50 QBs.
Super Bowl Champion. All NFL several years.

But what I keep going back to...

Year     Age  Tm   G  GS   QBrec
1970      25 OAK   3   0        
1971      26 OAK  14   1   1-0-0
1972      27 OAK  14   1   0-1-0
1973*     28 OAK  14  11   8-2-1
1974*+    29 OAK  14  13  11-2-0
1975      30 OAK  14  13  10-3-0
1976*     31 OAK  12  12  11-1-0
1977*     32 OAK  13  13  10-3-0
1978      33 OAK  16  16   9-7-0
1979      34 OAK  16  16   9-7-0
1980      35 HOU  16  16  11-5-0
1981      36 HOU  13  12   5-7-0
1982      37 NOR   8   8   4-4-0
1983      38 NOR  14  14   7-7-0
1984      39 NOR   3   0        
Career         184 146     96-49-1

He won 75 percent of his games. So if you want to say he's not HOF material, okay. If you want to say he is, okay. I think he's probably on top of the bubble.

I noticed Freddie B is in the HOF...wow; I didn't know that.

"Anytime a slow, skinny, wild eyed, scary looking white boy can get in it is a good thing."
And it was a black team mate of his that stated that.
But not at the ceremony!

 

[Immanuel]

So every player on those winning teams should be Hall of Famers?
No. Not saying you are stating that as your only position but I have heard that argument before and I disagree with it.
Hall of Fame is about individual talent, not wins and losses. Now I do agree with you that stats should not be the only factor. And I also agree that system players that win should get a big star for that.
Try playing in different schemes with rotating coaches and see how hard it is to run up any decent stats, much less win!
But the main factor is stats. One of the few things I have liked about free agency, and there are only a few, is the fact that the criteria is what you have done, not how much you have won.

Yeah...thats how come I said "hall of distinguished". I don't know; I think you can make a case either way.

According to: Ken Stabler NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com:

An MVP; 4 Pro Bowls. Lead league in passing TD's twice .
28,000 Yards for the career puts him in the top 50 QBs.
Super Bowl Champion. All NFL several years.

But what I keep going back to...

Year     Age  Tm   G  GS   QBrec
1970      25 OAK   3   0        
1971      26 OAK  14   1   1-0-0
1972      27 OAK  14   1   0-1-0
1973*     28 OAK  14  11   8-2-1
1974*+    29 OAK  14  13  11-2-0
1975      30 OAK  14  13  10-3-0
1976*     31 OAK  12  12  11-1-0
1977*     32 OAK  13  13  10-3-0
1978      33 OAK  16  16   9-7-0
1979      34 OAK  16  16   9-7-0
1980      35 HOU  16  16  11-5-0
1981      36 HOU  13  12   5-7-0
1982      37 NOR   8   8   4-4-0
1983      38 NOR  14  14   7-7-0
1984      39 NOR   3   0        
Career         184 146     96-49-1

He won 75 percent of his games. So if you want to say he's not HOF material, okay. If you want to say he is, okay. I think he's probably on top of the bubble.

I noticed Freddie B is in the HOF...wow; I didn't know that.

Good points. I was a huge Raiders and Snake fan. I agree.

Me too. In fact, I wanted his job. Unfortunately, I was too short and way too slow. Of course, on the short side of things, Doug Flutie proved that someone of my height was not too short to play.

Immie

 

[Gadawg73]

Yeah...thats how come I said "hall of distinguished". I don't know; I think you can make a case either way.

According to: Ken Stabler NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com:

An MVP; 4 Pro Bowls. Lead league in passing TD's twice .
28,000 Yards for the career puts him in the top 50 QBs.
Super Bowl Champion. All NFL several years.

But what I keep going back to...

Year     Age  Tm   G  GS   QBrec
1970      25 OAK   3   0        
1971      26 OAK  14   1   1-0-0
1972      27 OAK  14   1   0-1-0
1973*     28 OAK  14  11   8-2-1
1974*+    29 OAK  14  13  11-2-0
1975      30 OAK  14  13  10-3-0
1976*     31 OAK  12  12  11-1-0
1977*     32 OAK  13  13  10-3-0
1978      33 OAK  16  16   9-7-0
1979      34 OAK  16  16   9-7-0
1980      35 HOU  16  16  11-5-0
1981      36 HOU  13  12   5-7-0
1982      37 NOR   8   8   4-4-0
1983      38 NOR  14  14   7-7-0
1984      39 NOR   3   0        
Career         184 146     96-49-1

He won 75 percent of his games. So if you want to say he's not HOF material, okay. If you want to say he is, okay. I think he's probably on top of the bubble.

I noticed Freddie B is in the HOF...wow; I didn't know that.

Good points. I was a huge Raiders and Snake fan. I agree.

Me too. In fact, I wanted his job. Unfortunately, I was too short and way too slow. Of course, on the short side of things, Doug Flutie proved that someone of my height was not too short to play.

Immie

I saw a lot of heart get on the field and do well, even some small, short guys.
I was never so proud as when my son, at about 145 lbs and 5'7" as he is built like my wife, went from backup on the JV his sophomore year in high school to starter at wide receiver his junior and senior year. He had the very good speed and excellent quickness. On very good top ranked teams also. You spend all your time in that weight room and training you can get on the field. I also saw a lot of guys big, strong, fast with plenty of talent totally wash out. NO heart. Give me that too short, small player with HEART ANYTIME and you always have a chance with him. When his team mates see him they work harder and coaches work harder. Saw it more than once and it still inspires me.

 

[Immanuel]

Good points. I was a huge Raiders and Snake fan. I agree.

Me too. In fact, I wanted his job. Unfortunately, I was too short and way too slow. Of course, on the short side of things, Doug Flutie proved that someone of my height was not too short to play.

Immie

I saw a lot of heart get on the field and do well, even some small, short guys.
I was never so proud as when my son, at about 145 lbs and 5'7" as he is built like my wife, went from backup on the JV his sophomore year in high school to starter at wide receiver his junior and senior year. He had the very good speed and excellent quickness. On very good top ranked teams also. You spend all your time in that weight room and training you can get on the field. I also saw a lot of guys big, strong, fast with plenty of talent totally wash out. NO heart. Give me that too short, small player with HEART ANYTIME and you always have a chance with him. When his team mates see him they work harder and coaches work harder. Saw it more than once and it still inspires me.

I agree.

Unfortunately, I had a great arm, but no formal coaching. I was a Raider fan at the time and a lefty to boot. The Snake was my idol and I was all ready to take over where he left off.

I also had a mother that really didn't want me playing ball and now that I look back at things, I realize she had the influence over me that kept me from succeeding in that area.

Immie

 

[candycorn]

Good points. I was a huge Raiders and Snake fan. I agree.

Me too. In fact, I wanted his job. Unfortunately, I was too short and way too slow. Of course, on the short side of things, Doug Flutie proved that someone of my height was not too short to play.

Immie

I saw a lot of heart get on the field and do well, even some small, short guys.
I was never so proud as when my son, at about 145 lbs and 5'7" as he is built like my wife, went from backup on the JV his sophomore year in high school to starter at wide receiver his junior and senior year. He had the very good speed and excellent quickness. On very good top ranked teams also. You spend all your time in that weight room and training you can get on the field. I also saw a lot of guys big, strong, fast with plenty of talent totally wash out. NO heart. Give me that too short, small player with HEART ANYTIME and you always have a chance with him. When his team mates see him they work harder and coaches work harder. Saw it more than once and it still inspires me.

Remember Bill Bates; played for the cowboys. A vicious hitter and certified freak. I'd take him on my team any day. Standing 6'1 and 200 pounds and slow as the continental drift; he was the anti-Deion but you could not account for the tenacity, the destructive power of his involvement in the plays, and what he contributed to the team.

I don't listen to too much sports talk radio but from time to time its on in the break room and I will hear people call up and complain about coaches who are like statues on the sidelines. And the smug host will say something like;
"Tom Landry never raised his voice or Tony Dungy was a perfect gentleman. It doesn't matter what your demeanor is."
I say bull to that. Its easy to be a Landry or Dungy when you have Randy White or Peyton Manning in the locker room. Someone on the team has to exhibit some leadership. The leadership, by definition, must come from the leaders which is always the coach or the best players. Randy Moss would have been killed by Randy White.