Muslims are our friends but Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization?

[Foxfyre]

But nowhere is anybody's unalienable rights, property, freedoms, or opportunities hindered or threatened by Christians.

You sure about that?

Lord's Resistance Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not all who call themselves Christians are Christian. Not all who call themselves emmisaries of the Lord or the Holy Spirit are. The most terrible sin cited in the New Testament is to attribute or commit evil in the name of the Holy Spirit. And because I believe that it is by their fruit that we shall know them, I have no trouble saying that the LRA is not Christian and is anathema to all Christian teachings.

 

[High_Gravity]

But nowhere is anybody's unalienable rights, property, freedoms, or opportunities hindered or threatened by Christians.

You sure about that?

Lord's Resistance Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not all who call themselves Christians are Christian. Not all who call themselves emmisaries of the Lord or the Holy Spirit are. The most terrible sin cited in the New Testament is to attribute or commit sin in the name of the Holy Spirit. And because I believe that it is by their fruit that we shall know them, I have no trouble saying that the LRA is not Christian and is anathema to all Christian teachings.

Nobody outside of Uganda cares about the LRA or supports it cause, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah etc. get money and support from numerous supporters worldwide.

 

[Foxfyre]

,and the condemnation of it by reference to its sometimes less than commendable past. I have always freely acknowledged the sins of the Church and the destructive policies in the name of religion that have been utilized over the last 2000 years.

That's a nice way to phrase it, sugar coating it.

It is undeniable that in modern times ALL places where Christianity has attained a majority, there are more freedoms and more prosperity and more quality of life than is enjoyed by many nations that are not predominantly Christians.

I like how you try to phrase it in a very specific way. Four of the five most populous Muslim countries have elected female leaders (Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Turkey), how many female Presidents has the United States elected?

I would also like to point out that if our laws were on the basis of Christianity like some countries are with Islam then several of the freedoms you are talking about would disappear. I'm not out to bash Christianity, however, one should look at the full reality of the situation when trying to put one religion on a higher pedestal then another religion.

Non sequitur much? Please show the exact quotation or phrase in which I have EVER put Christianity on a higher plane than another religion. And then explain how, since you seem to jump in to condemn or criticize Christianity or any defense of it you are not out to bash Christianity.

On the various threads throughout USMB related or commenting on Islam, you will find more of my comments defending unfair criticism of Islam and/or Muslims than you will find comments criticizing it.

I'm guessing we would have a really tough time finding ANY quotation of yours that defends or commends Christianity in any aspect. I could be wrong of course. But I've never seen one.

 

[Ropey]

Nobody outside of Uganda cares about the LRA or supports it cause, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah etc. get money and support from numerous supporters worldwide.

Darfur? Chinese support....

 

[Sunni Man]

Nobody outside of Uganda cares about the LRA or supports it cause, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah etc. get money and support from numerous supporters worldwide.

"As you will have noticed in our title we mention that the use of children as soldiers is an “atrocity we fund”. We call it this because, in fact, the international community, far from being ignorant to this terrible violation of child rights, in many cases actually funds it. For example, it is well known that the Lord’s Resistance Army raises money in countries such as Germany, the U.K., the U.S, Sudan and other countries."

EarthFocus Magazine: Child Soldiers : The Atrocity we Fund

 

[High_Gravity]

Nobody outside of Uganda cares about the LRA or supports it cause, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah etc. get money and support from numerous supporters worldwide.

"As you will have noticed in our title we mention that the use of children as soldiers is an “atrocity we fund”. We call it this because, in fact, the international community, far from being ignorant to this terrible violation of child rights, in many cases actually funds it. For example, it is well known that the Lord’s Resistance Army raises money in countries such as Germany, the U.K., the U.S, Sudan and other countries."

EarthFocus Magazine: Child Soldiers : The Atrocity we Fund

This is very terrible, I read the article it says the LRA raises money from the West but how does it do so? I have never seen an LRA Rally with a spokesman demanding cash to support the war in Uganda.

 

[High_Gravity]

Nobody outside of Uganda cares about the LRA or supports it cause, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah etc. get money and support from numerous supporters worldwide.

Darfur? Chinese support....

Alot of Arab countries have also funded the Sudanese in their massacre in Darfur as well as turning a blind eye and saying nothing.

 

[Foxfyre]

You sure about that?

Lord's Resistance Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not all who call themselves Christians are Christian. Not all who call themselves emmisaries of the Lord or the Holy Spirit are. The most terrible sin cited in the New Testament is to attribute or commit sin in the name of the Holy Spirit. And because I believe that it is by their fruit that we shall know them, I have no trouble saying that the LRA is not Christian and is anathema to all Christian teachings.

Nobody outside of Uganda cares about the LRA or supports it cause, Al Qaeda, Hezbollah etc. get money and support from numerous supporters worldwide.

That's one of those really aggravating things in discussions like this. The anti-Christian group looks to the Westboro Baptist Church or the LRA or Pedophile Priests or other isolated and uncommon incidents or groups and holds that up as evidence that Christianity is a terrible thing. They refuse to acknowledge that hundreds of millions, even billions of Christians condemn the activity of these tiny rogue or corrupt or perverted groups.

When hundreds of millions, even billions of Muslims condemn the activity of tiny rogue groups committing evil within Islam, and recognize the unalienable rights of others, that is when we know that Islam has also come of age and is a positive influence in the world instead of being a problem for free peoples.

 

[Modbert]

That's one of those really aggravating things in discussions like this. The anti-Christian group looks to the Westboro Baptist Church or the LRA or Pedophile Priests or other isolated and uncommon incidents or groups and holds that up as evidence that Christianity is a terrible thing. They refuse to acknowledge that hundreds of millions, even billions of Christians condemn the activity of these tiny rogue or corrupt or perverted groups.

When hundreds of millions, even billions of Muslims condemn the activity of tiny rogue groups committing evil within Islam, and recognize the unalienable rights of others, that is when we know that Islam has also come of age and is a positive influence in the world instead of being a problem for free peoples.

Billions?

Care to cite some sources? Where are the hundreds of millions, even billions condemning the activity of Westboro or of Christians who wish to oppress the rights of others? Also, where are the hundreds of millions, and "even billions" of Muslims supporting terrorism?

Do you even begin to realize that millions of both Christians and Muslims barely know how to read, never mind know what's going on in the world outside the scope of their own towns? I doubt it.

 

[Modbert]

I'm guessing we would have a really tough time finding ANY quotation of yours that defends or commends Christianity in any aspect. I could be wrong of course. But I've never seen one.

I'm willing to commend Christians for their countless charity work throughout the world. I have done so on and off this board. However, I'm not going to commend a religion itself for that since not all Christians think or act the same. Rather, what is commendable is the behavior of the people who take the scripture in the Old and New Testament and try to become better people because of it. Not only for themselves but for those around them. I'm not going to commend the people who think women shouldn't have no rights because of what Paul said. I'm not going to commend the Catholic Church for their dropping of the ball with the pedophile priests. I'm not saying you don't expect me too either, but I'd like to know when in a thread I'm suppose to commend Christianity for and for what?

Am I suppose to commend Christianity for not killing people anymore for saying the earth is round and that everything doesn't revolve around it? Am I suppose to commend Christianity for getting rid of pedophile priests? Do tell me what I am suppose to commend the hierarchy for.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm guessing we would have a really tough time finding ANY quotation of yours that defends or commends Christianity in any aspect. I could be wrong of course. But I've never seen one.

I'm willing to commend Christians for their countless charity work throughout the world. I have done so on and off this board. However, I'm not going to commend a religion itself for that since not all Christians think or act the same. Rather, what is commendable is the behavior of the people who take the scripture in the Old and New Testament and try to become better people because of it. Not only for themselves but for those around them. I'm not going to commend the people who think women shouldn't have no rights because of what Paul said. I'm not going to commend the Catholic Church for their dropping of the ball with the pedophile priests. I'm not saying you don't expect me too either, but I'd like to know when in a thread I'm suppose to commend Christianity for and for what?

Am I suppose to commend Christianity for not killing people anymore for saying the earth is round and that everything doesn't revolve around it? Am I suppose to commend Christianity for getting rid of pedophile priests? Do tell me what I am suppose to commend the hierarchy for.

LOL, I hold up Modbert's post here as a beautiful illustration of the points I was making in a previous post this morning.

 

[Modbert]

LOL, I hold up Modbert's post here as a beautiful illustration of the points I was making in a previous post this morning.

So instead of trying to have a debate, you rather avoid responding to my post.

 

[Ropey]

I'm guessing we would have a really tough time finding ANY quotation of yours that defends or commends Christianity in any aspect. I could be wrong of course. But I've never seen one.

I'm willing to commend Christians for their countless charity work throughout the world. I have done so on and off this board. However, I'm not going to commend a religion itself for that since not all Christians think or act the same. Rather, what is commendable is the behavior of the people who take the scripture in the Old and New Testament and try to become better people because of it. Not only for themselves but for those around them. I'm not going to commend the people who think women shouldn't have no rights because of what Paul said. I'm not going to commend the Catholic Church for their dropping of the ball with the pedophile priests. I'm not saying you don't expect me too either, but I'd like to know when in a thread I'm suppose to commend Christianity for and for what?

Am I suppose to commend Christianity for not killing people anymore for saying the earth is round and that everything doesn't revolve around it? Am I suppose to commend Christianity for getting rid of pedophile priests? Do tell me what I am suppose to commend the hierarchy for.

With all things there is good and bad. Does the good outweigh the bad? Does the good increase and the bad decrease?

So, if I look at all beliefs with this non denominational neutral eye I am able to take a historical perspective and judge then with now.

Commend for good deeds and indict for bad deeds all the while looking at the times in which the deeds were accomplished.

All books fail in a perfect eye. But we NEED TO SEE ALL THAT HAS BEEN DONE. It's understandable since man often fails.

But, do we increase in good or decrease? Juries out on that one eh Modbert. For all beliefs.

 

[logical4u]

Assuming this is the case - and I dont' know whether the current crop of Muslim immigrants into Europe has had long enough to assimilate, but, assuming you are correct about Islam - what is it about Islam as a religion, or Muslims as people, that makes the notion of modernization and moderation less feasible than it was for Christian civilization?

From all reports, the muslims going into Europe have no interest in "assimilating". They want/will force the Europeans to "assimilate" with them.

 

[High_Gravity]

Assuming this is the case - and I dont' know whether the current crop of Muslim immigrants into Europe has had long enough to assimilate, but, assuming you are correct about Islam - what is it about Islam as a religion, or Muslims as people, that makes the notion of modernization and moderation less feasible than it was for Christian civilization?

From all reports, the muslims going into Europe have no interest in "assimilating". They want/will force the Europeans to "assimilate" with them.

The Europeans need to stand up for themselves.

 

[Foxfyre]

LOL, I hold up Modbert's post here as a beautiful illustration of the points I was making in a previous post this morning.

So instead of trying to have a debate, you rather avoid responding to my post.

I don't know what response you were expecting. I think I had already made my case for why I think Christianity is not a threat to any civilization or culture and why I think Islam is. And I think I had already stated my case for how anti-Christian types criticize it. And you went right down the line to affirm my opinion in that previous post.

So I will refer you to that previous post as my rebuttal.

If you care to rebut anything I've said related to the topic, please do and then we can have a debate. Bringing in non sequitur that does not change or even address what I've said isn't conducive to debate.

For instance, can you point to a single Islamic nation in which unalienable rights of the people are recognized or where the people enjoy more personal freedoms than they did before the nation was mostly controlled by Muslims?

Can you point to any nation in which Christianity is the predominant religion that enjoys fewer freedoms that was the case before Christians attained a majority?

 

[High_Gravity]

Christians aren't going to other countries and trying to force the host country to assimilate to their way of life.

 

[Ropey]

Christians aren't going to other countries and trying to force the host country to assimilate to their way of life.

Spreading the seed can be seen as doing this, so I disagree. In the past, the Crusades. Not all that long ago.

 

[High_Gravity]

Christians aren't going to other countries and trying to force the host country to assimilate to their way of life.

Spreading the seed can be seen as doing this, so I disagree. In the past, the Crusades. Not all that long ago.

Well I'm talking about now, are there any Christian communities in countries like Iran, Indonesia and Pakistan trying to force the people there to give them Christian courts and special treatments? No, they would be chased out on the streets and killed if they tried, Christians can't even show their faces on the streets anymore in Pakistan.

 

[logical4u]

But nowhere is anybody's unalienable rights, property, freedoms, or opportunities hindered or threatened by Christians.

You sure about that?

Lord's Resistance Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes, the muslim reference was scrubbed from this site. It "originally" stated that it made its beliefs from many different religions, islam and Christianity lumped in with the pagan religions of "old Africa". This group is mainly "economical". It was formed of homeless, crimminals and desperate peoples. It is also not very "selective" about who it murders: Christians, muslims, pagans, etc. Nice try. Distraction over substance SM.