Muslims are our friends but Islam is the enemy of Western Civilization?

Discussion in 'General Global Topics' started by Foxfyre, Dec 30, 2010.

  1. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    During a panel discussion sponsored by the Hudson Institute last January, retired Army Lt. Colonel Allen West, who did combat duty in Iraq, responded to a Marine who asked the question, how do you answer people who say that terrorists are following a "warped" version of Islam? I was quite impressed with Lt. Col West’s grasp of history and understanding of the problem we are up against.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU5d30h1D_0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU5d30h1D_0[/ame]

    This is not to say that every Muslim is our enemy. They are not.

    This is not to say that every Muslim is focused on following the more militant content of the Qur’an, the Hadith, or Sufi texts. They aren’t.

    This is not to say that many people of the Muslim faith have not been peace loving, model citizens, making significant contributions to society. They have been.

    But at the risk of attracting still more wrath and abuse from the PC crowd and apologists for Islam, we cannot ignore that the national debate continues to focus on the effect of growing Muslim populations around the world. And that debate cotninues to include the broad intent of Islam to bring down western culture and values as most of us understand those. The ultimate goal of Islam is to place all cultures under total subjection to Allah and Shariah Law.

    While some nations are less repressive than others, there is no country in the world in which Islam enjoys a majority that respects any understanding of unalienable rights, repects western culture, respects basic liberties, respects the free man's way of life.

    It is the right of Islamic nations to order society as they want it. But to not maintain and enforce due vigilance to protect all the rights, freedoms, and culture that we hold dear is to invite the destruction of all.
     
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  2. syrenn
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    syrenn BANNED

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    I agree.
     
  3. Ropey
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    Ropey To Life! Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    This is why we are here to vote. :)
     
  4. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    These kinds of discussions are always a sticky wicket for me. I have Muslim friends in real life and here on USMB whom I hold in high regard. It is increasingly difficult to draw the distinction between opposing an idea/ideal while not opposing those Muslim friends.

    It isn't much different than respecting a person who advocates no restrictions on abortions while holding a pro life stance yourself. Or wanting to provide needed protections for gay friends and associates without destroying the traditional definition of marriage. Or embracing femininity while promoting equal opportunity in the work place. Or deploring PC while respecting persons.

    All these dichotomies are part and parcel of the national debate.

    The difference in the debate re the encroachment of Islam onto western civilization, however, is that if Islam wins, discussion is over. There will be no western civilization and no promotion of the culture and values within it that we hold dear.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2010
  5. TheTraveller
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    TheTraveller Rookie

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    The same was true of every Christian nation in the world 1000 years ago (even the idea of "western culture," whichis a modern notion). Christianity modernized. Why not Islam? Maybe you can think of a reason why Islam won't modernize; religions are different after all. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if contact with the Western world actually had the overall effect of moderating the extremism of Islam. It was much the same with the pagan Goths who overthrew Rome; before long they were all speaking Latin.
     
  6. Foxfyre
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    Foxfyre Eternal optimist Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    It is true that the Christian leadership and the monarchs/feudal lords who exploited it were intolerant and at times militantly agreesive in enforcing their view of "Christian law" during Medieval times and even on a very small scale in the first decades of the New World. Some bad acts were committed by religious fanatics that I in no way believe were "Christian" but rather they were fundamentalist tyrants in conflict with Biblical Christian teachings. Most bad acts in Medieval times were committed for political purposes rather than religious ones. By instilling fear of loss of property, physical punishment, and/or excommunications, corrupt popes and monarchs enhanced their own power and personal fortunes by teaming up to keep the people in line. That worked for centuries.

    The difference is that those popes and monarchs were not interested in conquering the entire world. They were looking to their own interests and weren't operating under some fanatical religious edict. The effect on the powerless was the same, but the scope of intent did not involved entire civilizations.

    As for western civilization moderating the extremism of Islam, that isn't happening in the UK, in France, in Denmark et al where Muslims have achieved significant populations. The more influence populations of Muslims have, the more extremist they seem to become.
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2011
  7. TheTraveller
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    TheTraveller Rookie

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    Assuming this is the case - and I dont' know whether the current crop of Muslim immigrants into Europe has had long enough to assimilate, but, assuming you are correct about Islam - what is it about Islam as a religion, or Muslims as people, that makes the notion of modernization and moderation less feasible than it was for Christian civilization?
     
  8. Ropey
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    To my view? Nothing.

    Islam is in the process of reformation. From without not within. It will be the Muslims outside of the Middle East who will reform Islam in the coming generations.

    Just as it was outside of the Middle East where Judaism and Christianity found their reformative interpretations and they are also in a process of modernization.

    They are just ahead of Islam at the moment and considering Islam is the youngest of the three Abraham religions, this makes sense.

    We are simply a single generation in a multi-generational movement of humanity. We need to look at the historical perspective to gain a clearer view.

    People are fearful that their way of life is going to change. Of course it is going to change. That's life and humanity, and Islam is part of that life and humanity. Just as all the other world's beliefs and platforms are part and parcel of the human approach.

    I believe it will come and will modernize and will help us also modify and change in acceptance.
     
  9. AllieBaba
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    AllieBaba BANNED

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    So long as you promote the destruction of the US, your votes will have little or no effect, and eventually you'll either be forcibly integrated or told to leave.
     
  10. AllieBaba
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    AllieBaba BANNED

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    Islam is not generally considered part and parcel of "modernization", lol.

    People are not afraid of change. They are afraid of death, and torture, and oppression, which all Islamic nations enjoy as a way of life.
     
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