Murder as Sport

[George Costanza]

It is a corrupt mind that can accept a white person killing a black person is a grater crime that a white killing a white or any other combination of race in crime. We need to move AWAY from race playing ANY factor in law whatsoever. Law is supposed to be colorblind and legislation like this simply moves the focus BACK on color where it should have never been in the first place. A prime example is your own post. The FIRST thing you were interested in was what race they were! That should never play a role in the courtroom.

A white killing a black is no greater crime than a white killing a white, PROVIDED, the killing is not racially motivated. Once the crime becomes racially motivated, however, the race of the killer and the race of the victim are irrelevant - it is a hate crime and should be punished more harshly than a non-racially motivated crime.

I guess you don't see racially motivated crimes as worse than non-racially motivated crimes. Seems to me THAT is evidence of the "corrupt mind" you are referencing in your opening remark.

 

[George Costanza]

Hey Costanza,

If a man rapes a woman because she is a woman,

hate crime?

No.

 

[Tank]

If a man rapes a woman because of her skin color,

hate crime?

 

[ConHog]

George is self loathing white racist. Proven months back when he went around calling people crackers.

It's sad.

 

[Kat]

Hey Costanza,

If a man rapes a woman because she is a woman,

hate crime?

No.

First off I don't get what it means for a woman to be raped b/c she is a woman...
And if it is not a hate crime, you mean it is done out of love??

 

[George Costanza]

Actually, I have to revise my original "no" answer to the question of whether rape of a woman is a hate crime. Many hate crime statutes (California included) include gender as one of the protected classes, along with race, sexual orientation, etc.

That being the case, it could be argued that rape of a woman is a hate crime by definition. The only problem with that is, that virtually all rapes involve a man raping a woman. Since that would seem almost (but not quite) to be an element of the crime, then adding punishment for the fact that it is a man raping a woman would be superfluous. I know that, in actual practice, you will never see a hate crime charge filed along with a rape charge.

But the answer is not all that simple. Here, take a look at this:

Is Rape a Hate Crime? | Teaching Tolerance

It does appear that raising the issue of whether or not rape of a woman can be classified as a hate crime, is one of the major talking points suggested to conservatives who are opposed to hate crime legislation. Just sayin' . . .

 

[Kat]

Actually, I have to revise my original "no" answer to the question of whether rape of a woman is a hate crime. Many hate crime statutes (California included) include gender as one of the protected classes, along with race, sexual orientation, etc.

That being the case, it could be argued that rape of a woman is a hate crime by definition. The only problem with that is, that virtually all rapes involve a man raping a woman. Since that would seem almost (but not quite) to be an element of the crime, then adding punishment for the fact that it is a man raping a woman would be superfluous. I know that, in actual practice, you will never see a hate crime charge filed along with a rape charge.

But the answer is not all that simple. Here, take a look at this:

Is Rape a Hate Crime? | Teaching Tolerance

It does appear that raising the issue of whether or not rape of a woman can be classified as a hate crime, is one of the major talking points suggested to conservatives who are opposed to hate crime legislation. Just sayin' . . .

I would guess that most any violent crime is done out of hatred, not love. Why not prosecute as such, and not try and legislate anything as a ''hate crime''?

 

[George Costanza]

If a man rapes a woman because of her skin color,

hate crime?

Yes - because, on the facts you have presented here, the crime (rape) is racially motivated (because of her skin color). Of course, if the man and the woman were of the same race, then no hate crime could occur. Or could it?

Interesting question raised by that - is it possible for a person of the same race as the victim to commit a racially motivated (hate crime) against the victim? Suppose old ConHog here allows his deluded mind to wander even further afield than it already is and, convinced that I am a "self loathing racist," tries to kill me, screaming: "White racist! White racist!" as he does so. Isn't this an assault that is based in whole or in part on racial considerations?

Interesting question . . .

 

[Tank]

Is not a pedifile to children

as a KKK member is to blacks?

 

[George Costanza]

Actually, I have to revise my original "no" answer to the question of whether rape of a woman is a hate crime. Many hate crime statutes (California included) include gender as one of the protected classes, along with race, sexual orientation, etc.

That being the case, it could be argued that rape of a woman is a hate crime by definition. The only problem with that is, that virtually all rapes involve a man raping a woman. Since that would seem almost (but not quite) to be an element of the crime, then adding punishment for the fact that it is a man raping a woman would be superfluous. I know that, in actual practice, you will never see a hate crime charge filed along with a rape charge.

But the answer is not all that simple. Here, take a look at this:

Is Rape a Hate Crime? | Teaching Tolerance

It does appear that raising the issue of whether or not rape of a woman can be classified as a hate crime, is one of the major talking points suggested to conservatives who are opposed to hate crime legislation. Just sayin' . . .

I would guess that most any violent crime is done out of hatred, not love. Why not prosecute as such, and not try and legislate anything as a ''hate crime''?

(sigh) . . . .

For the same reason that, while all murders are probably committed out of hatred, they are nonetheless categorized on the basis of degrees, with harsher punishment for the higher degrees of murder. And what differentiates one degree of murder from another? The intent and motivation of the defendant.

Same thing with hate crimes. A hate crime is to a simple assault, what first degree murder is to second degree murder. In both instances, the more culpable of the crimes are given harsher punishment.

I am surprised that you conservatives pick hate crime legislation to deviate from your otherwise fairly constant "hang 'em high" position with regard to those who commit crimes. Why is that, I wonder?

 

[George Costanza]

Is not a pedifile to children

as a KKK member is to blacks?

No, because KKK members commit crimes against blacks because of racial hatred. Pedophiles commit crimes against children because children are the natural prey of pedophiles.

Save yourself some time. Go to Google and look up all crimes that only have one type of victim by definition. Then trot all of them out under the banner of: "Why aren't these hate crimes?" The answer is, they aren't hate crimes because they do not fall into the legal classification of hate crimes.

 

[Tank]

Interesting question raised by that - is it possible for a person of the same race as the victim to commit a racially motivated (hate crime) against the victim?

If two black men are fighting and calling each other *******,

double hate crime?

 

[George Costanza]

Interesting question raised by that - is it possible for a person of the same race as the victim to commit a racially motivated (hate crime) against the victim?

If two black men are fighting and calling each other *******,

double hate crime?

I'll get back to you . . . Just wait by your computer for about four more hours, maybe five.

 

[Tank]

No, because KKK members commit crimes against blacks because of racial hatred. Pedophiles commit crimes against children because children are the natural prey of pedophiles.

Natural prey?

Do you really find what pedophiles do to be natural?

 

[Kat]

Actually, I have to revise my original "no" answer to the question of whether rape of a woman is a hate crime. Many hate crime statutes (California included) include gender as one of the protected classes, along with race, sexual orientation, etc.

That being the case, it could be argued that rape of a woman is a hate crime by definition. The only problem with that is, that virtually all rapes involve a man raping a woman. Since that would seem almost (but not quite) to be an element of the crime, then adding punishment for the fact that it is a man raping a woman would be superfluous. I know that, in actual practice, you will never see a hate crime charge filed along with a rape charge.

But the answer is not all that simple. Here, take a look at this:

Is Rape a Hate Crime? | Teaching Tolerance

It does appear that raising the issue of whether or not rape of a woman can be classified as a hate crime, is one of the major talking points suggested to conservatives who are opposed to hate crime legislation. Just sayin' . . .

I would guess that most any violent crime is done out of hatred, not love. Why not prosecute as such, and not try and legislate anything as a ''hate crime''?

(sigh) . . . .

For the same reason that, while all murders are probably committed out of hatred, they are nonetheless categorized on the basis of degrees, with harsher punishment for the higher degrees of murder. And what differentiates one degree of murder from another? The intent and motivation of the defendant.

Same thing with hate crimes. A hate crime is to a simple assault, what first degree murder is to second degree murder. In both instances, the more culpable of the crimes are given harsher punishment.

I am surprised that you conservatives pick hate crime legislation to deviate from your otherwise fairly constant "hang 'em high" position with regard to those who commit crimes. Why is that, I wonder?

Don't sigh at me George. Do you remember what I told you a couple years back??

 

[George Costanza]

I would guess that most any violent crime is done out of hatred, not love. Why not prosecute as such, and not try and legislate anything as a ''hate crime''?

(sigh) . . . .

For the same reason that, while all murders are probably committed out of hatred, they are nonetheless categorized on the basis of degrees, with harsher punishment for the higher degrees of murder. And what differentiates one degree of murder from another? The intent and motivation of the defendant.

Same thing with hate crimes. A hate crime is to a simple assault, what first degree murder is to second degree murder. In both instances, the more culpable of the crimes are given harsher punishment.

I am surprised that you conservatives pick hate crime legislation to deviate from your otherwise fairly constant "hang 'em high" position with regard to those who commit crimes. Why is that, I wonder?

Don't sigh at me George. Do you remember what I told you a couple years back??

I do now. But that should not prevent you from arguing this issue. How about responding to my post here and addressing the argument involved?

 

[George Costanza]

No, because KKK members commit crimes against blacks because of racial hatred. Pedophiles commit crimes against children because children are the natural prey of pedophiles.

Natural prey?

Do you really find what pedophiles do to be natural?

Good night, Tank.

 

[Kat]

(sigh) . . . .

For the same reason that, while all murders are probably committed out of hatred, they are nonetheless categorized on the basis of degrees, with harsher punishment for the higher degrees of murder. And what differentiates one degree of murder from another? The intent and motivation of the defendant.

Same thing with hate crimes. A hate crime is to a simple assault, what first degree murder is to second degree murder. In both instances, the more culpable of the crimes are given harsher punishment.

I am surprised that you conservatives pick hate crime legislation to deviate from your otherwise fairly constant "hang 'em high" position with regard to those who commit crimes. Why is that, I wonder?

Don't sigh at me George. Do you remember what I told you a couple years back??

I do now. But that should not prevent you from arguing this issue. How about responding to my post here and addressing the argument involved?

I can't without it being personal, and you know that. I bow out!

ETA: But I will say according to how you believe, we may as well make every crime a hate crime.

 

[George Costanza]

Don't sigh at me George. Do you remember what I told you a couple years back??

I do now. But that should not prevent you from arguing this issue. How about responding to my post here and addressing the argument involved?

I can't without it being personal, and you know that. I bow out!

Well, I never intended to make anything personal - but I understand.

 

[Tank]

Costanza,

You think a person who attacks people because of their race is worse,

then a person who attacks people because of their age.