More on the prom canceling

[manifold]

Use your head. The fact that they excluded her from the prom violated her first amendment rights.

What prom? The story I read said they cancelled it.


If they held the prom and excluded her, then I agree her rights would have been violated. But if cancelling the prom violates her rights, then wouldn't it also be violating every other student's rights as well?

the way that i understand it, which is probably incorrect because i'm an engineer not a lawyer, is that the fact that she had been openly gay for a number of years and that she told the school that she wanted to bring her gf and dress in a tux as an expression of her beliefs, the school board in canceling the prom denied her her first amendment right to freedom of speech. or possiblt did, i guess, since there will be a trial.

in other words, the judge believes that canceling the prom was a preemptive strike on her freedom of expression. at least, that's how i see it.

I understand that argument, I simply disagree.

Freedom of expression does not include the right to a forum for said expression nor access to an audience for it.

 

[manifold]

When a class valedictorian is not allowed to discuss their faith during a graduation speech, does that violate their freedom of expression?

 

[del]

When a class valedictorian is not allowed to discuss their faith during a graduation speech, does that violate their freedom of expression?

i believe it does.

 

[blindnessprevai]

Vanquish[
"Let me hold up a mirror and show you how you really are. You're full of uneducated hatred"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Vanquish, I am fully aware of what I really am. I think I have confessed the hatred that I "struggle" with and KNOW is wrong in almost every one of the few messages I have posted. I am not trying to offend you but I have to chuckle at your term "uneducated hatred" as it serves to confirm my belief. We are ALL dealing with hatred of something or someone in one fashion or another. I recognized it as wrong, confess it and try to rise above it.. If that is "uneducated hatred" then so be it that which I battle. Do you think that there is some righteousness in "EDUCATED hatred" that is meant to be hidden in guile and eloquence of speech? Does throwing in a condescending twist of the face to provoke "uneducated hatred" for the purpose of diverting attention from self make "educated hatred" superior to that which I struggle with? I will probably take a long long break from this now as not to provoke or be provoked any further, but I hope you will stand back and think about this. Does denial of a matter change the reality of it?

 

[Ravi]

When a class valedictorian is not allowed to discuss their faith during a graduation speech, does that violate their freedom of expression?

i believe it does.

Yep, and as far as I know there is no school that has a rule against discussing your faith in a valedictorian speech.

 

[Luissa]

What prom? The story I read said they cancelled it.


If they held the prom and excluded her, then I agree her rights would have been violated. But if cancelling the prom violates her rights, then wouldn't it also be violating every other student's rights as well?

the way that i understand it, which is probably incorrect because i'm an engineer not a lawyer, is that the fact that she had been openly gay for a number of years and that she told the school that she wanted to bring her gf and dress in a tux as an expression of her beliefs, the school board in canceling the prom denied her her first amendment right to freedom of speech. or possiblt did, i guess, since there will be a trial.

in other words, the judge believes that canceling the prom was a preemptive strike on her freedom of expression. at least, that's how i see it.

I understand that argument, I simply disagree.

Freedom of expression does not include the right to a forum for said expression nor access to an audience for it.

They told her she couldn't wear a tux and could not attend with her girlfriend. When the ACLU got involved they canceled the prom.
It doesn't matter if they canceled the prom, because before they did they told her she was not allowed to attend because of the reasons I stated above.

 

[Luissa]

What prom? The story I read said they cancelled it.


If they held the prom and excluded her, then I agree her rights would have been violated. But if cancelling the prom violates her rights, then wouldn't it also be violating every other student's rights as well?

the way that i understand it, which is probably incorrect because i'm an engineer not a lawyer, is that the fact that she had been openly gay for a number of years and that she told the school that she wanted to bring her gf and dress in a tux as an expression of her beliefs, the school board in canceling the prom denied her her first amendment right to freedom of speech. or possiblt did, i guess, since there will be a trial.

in other words, the judge believes that canceling the prom was a preemptive strike on her freedom of expression. at least, that's how i see it.

I understand that argument, I simply disagree.

Freedom of expression does not include the right to a forum for said expression nor access to an audience for it.

The judge ruled that by telling her she couldn't go violated her rights, and he also said they didn't have to have the prom. You don't have to give them the forum to express themselves, but you can't keep them from attending.

 

[Misty]

She is a gay activist which she has every right to be. But she did have an agenda

That being said, if you let gays be gay, they won't need to make big deals about not being able to go to the prom, thus preventing lawsuits that result in monetary gain which btw will be funded by the taxpayer.

 

[manifold]

I guess I can agree that the school is guilty of attempted infringement of her 1st amendment rights, if there is such a thing.

 

[SpidermanTuba]

the school was forced to cancel to ward off one.

And how well did that work out?

 

[SpidermanTuba]

She is a gay activist which she has every right to be. But she did have an agenda

That being said, if you let gays be gay, they won't need to make big deals about not being able to go to the prom, thus preventing lawsuits that result in monetary gain which btw will be funded by the taxpayer.

Fortunately it will primarily be funded by the morons in the local school district who allowed such a bigoted school administration to take power.

 

[bodecea]

When a class valedictorian is not allowed to discuss their faith during a graduation speech, does that violate their freedom of expression?

In a public school where the school controls content...yes. Same as if she wanted to give a foul word laced speech. Or a speech thanking Mohammed for her success.

 

[bodecea]

She is a gay activist which she has every right to be. But she did have an agenda

That being said, if you let gays be gay, they won't need to make big deals about not being able to go to the prom, thus preventing lawsuits that result in monetary gain which btw will be funded by the taxpayer.

You mean that $1 fine she is asking for?

 

[beowolfe]

Whats next, after this bunch screws the tax payer again Judge: No school prom but lesbian's right violated - Yahoo! News

How can her rights be violated? No One has a RIGHT to a Prom. And the school is NOT holding a Prom. The Judge is an idiot. Is the Judge going to ask the Federal Government to pay for this Prom? This loses on every level.

The judge noted that McMillen has been openly gay since she was in the eighth grade and that she intended to communicate a message by wearing a tuxedo and escorting a same-sex date.

"The court finds this expression and communication falls squarely within the purview of the First Amendment," Davidson said.

Since you all are sooo big on freedom of speech.

 

[beowolfe]

Whats next, after this bunch screws the tax payer again Judge: No school prom but lesbian's right violated - Yahoo! News

How can her rights be violated? No One has a RIGHT to a Prom. And the school is NOT holding a Prom. The Judge is an idiot. Is the Judge going to ask the Federal Government to pay for this Prom? This loses on every level.

but she mexican, we Americans aren't allowed to offend a foreigner.

And apparently, you are not a reader. You should try it sometime.

 

[del]

When a class valedictorian is not allowed to discuss their faith during a graduation speech, does that violate their freedom of expression?

i believe it does.

Yep, and as far as I know there is no school that has a rule against discussing your faith in a valedictorian speech.

apparently, there is.

valedictorian not allowed to mention faith - Google Search

 

[Vanquish]

Vanquish[
"Let me hold up a mirror and show you how you really are. You're full of uneducated hatred"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Vanquish, I am fully aware of what I really am. I think I have confessed the hatred that I "struggle" with and KNOW is wrong in almost every one of the few messages I have posted. I am not trying to offend you but I have to chuckle at your term "uneducated hatred" as it serves to confirm my belief. We are ALL dealing with hatred of something or someone in one fashion or another. I recognized it as wrong, confess it and try to rise above it.. If that is "uneducated hatred" then so be it that which I battle. Do you think that there is some righteousness in "EDUCATED hatred" that is meant to be hidden in guile and eloquence of speech? Does throwing in a condescending twist of the face to provoke "uneducated hatred" for the purpose of diverting attention from self make "educated hatred" superior to that which I struggle with? I will probably take a long long break from this now as not to provoke or be provoked any further, but I hope you will stand back and think about this. Does denial of a matter change the reality of it?

I definitely give you props for admitting to the issues that you battle against. Your previous post had no hint of that in it, thus my reply. I'm far from perfect myself and have my own issues that I battle against.

 

[Ravi]

i believe it does.

Yep, and as far as I know there is no school that has a rule against discussing your faith in a valedictorian speech.

apparently, there is.

valedictorian not allowed to mention faith - Google Search

I looked at a few of them...if someone is not allowed to mention Jesus, Allah, or the flying spaghetti monster in their speech I think they are having their civil rights violated. On the other hand, if they are encouraging others to give themselves to any of the above, not so much.

 

[del]

Yep, and as far as I know there is no school that has a rule against discussing your faith in a valedictorian speech.

apparently, there is.

valedictorian not allowed to mention faith - Google Search

I looked at a few of them...if someone is not allowed to mention Jesus, Allah, or the flying spaghetti monster in their speech I think they are having their civil rights violated. On the other hand, if they are encouraging others to give themselves to any of the above, not so much.

i think anything that limits a person's right to peacefully speak about their beliefs is wrong.

 

[Dr Gregg]

You really can tell who the ignorant bigoted dumbfucks are that defend the school for their completely assinine decision to cancel the prom. Reap what you so bigots