More "freedom" going on - doesnt rate a mention

[2aguy]

The complex problem is single teen motherhood, and young men being raised without fathers.

The gun control issue is easy....we already have all the gun control we need to keep gun criminals off the streets. The problem? We keep letting repeat violent gun offenders back out of jail where they then go on to commit gun murder.

magaizine limits, gun registration, universal background checks,....do nothing.

I would say - at the very least - universal background checks would weed out the felons so yes they do something. Without a means of verifying a person's legal ability to buy a gun you might as well have NO gun control.

Sorry.....universal background checks do nothing of the sort. Currently, criminals get straw buyers to buy their guns, ( or they steal them). Those straw buyers are used because they can pass current, federally mandated background checks at gun stores...which means those same straw buyers would pass any universal background check for a private sale.....and criminals do not do private sales because they are afraid the seller will be a cop.......

We don't need universal background checks........if a felon is caught with a gun, right now....we can already arrest them. The only reason anti gunners want universal background checks is that it gives them the reason to demand universal gun registration....

It may not be perfect but it's better than nothing. Same with registration.

No...it is worse than nothing......universal background checks will fail to reduce gun crime and mass shootings...then, after they fail, the anti gunners will come back, with the same arguments and demand universal gun registration...because they know that they need registration in order to successfully ban and confiscate guns.....because they know that this is the procedure Britain, Australia, Germany, New York, Canada, and California did it.......

What exactly does registration do? Since guns are sold or given to criminals illegally already, the seller simply states the gun was stolen.....then, years later when the gun is found after a crime, they can't be held accountable....and right now, it is the baby mommas and grandmothers of gang members buying the guns...and prosecutors do not take those sellers to court......

Here is what registration and some form of tracking CAN do - it can serve to raise a red flag when someone purchases large amounts of ammo, weaponry, assault style equipment (like the San Bernadino shooters did) and while it can't be acted on because it's not illegal in and of itself - perhaps an eye can be kept on them.

So....police forces already stretched.....will be able to sit on someone for 6 months to 2 years?

The Orlando Night Club shooter had a co worker turn him in on suspicion of terrorism .....the FBI conducted a 10 month process....they had trained FBI interrogators talk to him 3 years, they did a full background check, and even had an under cover agent approach the guy....and then let him walk.....he passed background checks for his security job, he passed background checks for each gun he purchased, and then murdered 48 people in the night club.....

While a week later, another shooting happened at a nighclub and a concealed carry gun owner stopped it......

 

[2aguy]

So perhaps a combination of strict sentencing and moderate gun control laws would do the trick.

You are right on the first part...we already have the second part.

 

[2aguy]

So perhaps a combination of strict sentencing and moderate gun control laws would do the trick.

So...do you think this criminal.....mentioned in my link......would only use legal 10 round magazines? He doesn't have to register his illegal gun because he is a criminal and it would violate his Right against self incrimination ( Haynes v. United States). He can't pass a background check....he can't pass a universal background check. He doesn't have a waiting period for his gun. He can't get any kind of training because he can't own or carry a gun......

The only ones who will do all of the above.....law abiding gun owners, are not shooting people or using guns for rape, robbery or murder.


“It’s frustrating for [Chicago police] to arrest a guy on Friday for an illegal gun and then the next Thursday they see him right back out on the street with another illegal gun.” A police spokesman echoed Johnson’s frustration: “with nearly half of those we arrest for murder being repeated gun offenders, we need help to ensure these individuals stay off our streets after repeated arrests for guns.”
----

Cook County State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez made a similar acknowledgment last week: “Criminals know and understand our system” and “tell prosecutors that Illinois gun laws are ‘a joke.’”

She noted that the worst offenders “are spending fewer and fewer days behind bars for their violent and repeat felony gun offenses,” and that “an unexplained revolving door” is “spitting these convicted criminals out of prison after they have served only a fraction of their court-imposed sentences for violent gun offenses.”

 

[2aguy]

So perhaps a combination of strict sentencing and moderate gun control laws would do the trick.

Notice...if half of the 700 gun murderers in Chicago were put in jail for 30 years.....that would be a 50% reduction in gun murders in Chicago...and then you add in those simply caught with an illegal gun....30 years for them.....and you cut that number again...

And it has the added benefit of no new laws, no new paperwork....and most important of all...you aren't bothering law abiding gun owners to do any of it....

“It’s frustrating for [Chicago police] to arrest a guy on Friday for an illegal gun and then the next Thursday they see him right back out on the street with another illegal gun.” A police spokesman echoed Johnson’s frustration: “with nearly half of those we arrest for murder being repeated gun offenders, we need help to ensure these individuals stay off our streets after repeated arrests for guns.”
----

Cook County State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez made a similar acknowledgment last week: “Criminals know and understand our system” and “tell prosecutors that Illinois gun laws are ‘a joke.’”

She noted that the worst offenders “are spending fewer and fewer days behind bars for their violent and repeat felony gun offenses,” and that “an unexplained revolving door” is “spitting these convicted criminals out of prison after they have served only a fraction of their court-imposed sentences for violent gun offenses.”

 

[westwall]

As more Americans own and carry cellphones....our gun murder rate went down, our gun crime rate went down, our violent crime rate went down....

Nice try...that isn't the argument you anti gunners make.....you state over and over and you have done it here as well....

More guns = more gun crime......

And 21 years have shown this is not true...it isn't based in facts or reality....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

How many gun related homicides in the US?

How many in Britain?

Again....you hide behind the homicide statistic......which has no bearing on gun control laws......since the United States had increased gun ownership, and decreasing gun crime and gun murder.....

Britain banned and confiscated guns....let me repeat that since you are slow.....Britain banned and confiscated guns, doing the exact opposite of the United States...

And What happened?

Their gun murder rate went up....their gun crime rate keeps going up...up 27% just last year as an island nation, and up 42% in their capitol city of London.....and their violent crime rate is going up so much, London is more violent than the United States....all of Britain is more violent than the United States.......

They did what you believe...they banned and confiscated guns....and it increased their gun violence...

The only thing...their criminals are behind ours....they don't commit murder as often or as easily....so you cling to that, even as more gun crime happens in Britain..which means that eventually, their gun murder rate is going to sky rocket.......then you will have nothing...

They actually did not ban and confiscate guns - rifles and shotguns are still legal. So that is a false claim.

Police getting shot is an extremely rare event - so are police shootings of supsects. Wouldn't that be nice here?

Britain has had three mass killing shooting sprees since 1980, according to wikipedia. THREE in almost 40 years. What is our record?

Firearms policy in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia


Which country has a higher gun violence death rate?

Their gun murder rate has not sky-rocketed in the 30 some years since they inacted the policy and the rate of police being killed has drastically gone down.

Yes...their nuts don't shoot up schools....and they have been lucky last year....They average one mass shooting every ten years.....and had their last one in 2010 showing that their gun control laws didn't change their rate of mass shootings...the British culture hasn't created mass shooters......that too is changing, they had 2 attempts last year....one was stopped by the police after the idiot posted about his attack on social media, the other involved a kid who brought a shotgun to school....and changed his mind, calling the police on himself...

Plain dumb luck is not gun control working...doofus.

Cumbria shootings - Wikipedia

The Cumbria shootings occurred on 2 June 2010 when a lone gunman, Derrick Bird, killed 12 people and injured 11 others before killing himself in Cumbria, England.

Their gun murder rate went up after they banned guns and never went below where it was before they banned guns.....there was no change after banning and confiscating guns......

Rifles and shotguns....for the wealthy......handguns are banned...and are being used by criminals today in Britain


Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

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He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

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Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Yet they have far far far fewer mass shootings then we do.

And far far far fewer gun related homicides.

But not because of the number of guns we have, it is because they have far fewer violent third world immigrants in their country than we do. As those refugees pour in the violent crime rate, and the gun crime rates are exploding commensurate with the increase in third world immigrants. it is a direct correlation. I agree that correlation isn't causation, but it is extremely compelling evidence.

 

[Coyote]

So perhaps a combination of strict sentencing and moderate gun control laws would do the trick.

Notice...if half of the 700 gun murderers in Chicago were put in jail for 30 years.....that would be a 50% reduction in gun murders in Chicago...and then you add in those simply caught with an illegal gun....30 years for them.....and you cut that number again...

And it has the added benefit of no new laws, no new paperwork....and most important of all...you aren't bothering law abiding gun owners to do any of it....

“It’s frustrating for [Chicago police] to arrest a guy on Friday for an illegal gun and then the next Thursday they see him right back out on the street with another illegal gun.” A police spokesman echoed Johnson’s frustration: “with nearly half of those we arrest for murder being repeated gun offenders, we need help to ensure these individuals stay off our streets after repeated arrests for guns.”
----

Cook County State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez made a similar acknowledgment last week: “Criminals know and understand our system” and “tell prosecutors that Illinois gun laws are ‘a joke.’”

She noted that the worst offenders “are spending fewer and fewer days behind bars for their violent and repeat felony gun offenses,” and that “an unexplained revolving door” is “spitting these convicted criminals out of prison after they have served only a fraction of their court-imposed sentences for violent gun offenses.”

None of that would have msde a difference in the many mass shootings.

 

[2aguy]

So perhaps a combination of strict sentencing and moderate gun control laws would do the trick.

Notice...if half of the 700 gun murderers in Chicago were put in jail for 30 years.....that would be a 50% reduction in gun murders in Chicago...and then you add in those simply caught with an illegal gun....30 years for them.....and you cut that number again...

And it has the added benefit of no new laws, no new paperwork....and most important of all...you aren't bothering law abiding gun owners to do any of it....

“It’s frustrating for [Chicago police] to arrest a guy on Friday for an illegal gun and then the next Thursday they see him right back out on the street with another illegal gun.” A police spokesman echoed Johnson’s frustration: “with nearly half of those we arrest for murder being repeated gun offenders, we need help to ensure these individuals stay off our streets after repeated arrests for guns.”
----

Cook County State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez made a similar acknowledgment last week: “Criminals know and understand our system” and “tell prosecutors that Illinois gun laws are ‘a joke.’”

She noted that the worst offenders “are spending fewer and fewer days behind bars for their violent and repeat felony gun offenses,” and that “an unexplained revolving door” is “spitting these convicted criminals out of prison after they have served only a fraction of their court-imposed sentences for violent gun offenses.”

None of that would have msde a difference in the many mass shootings.

Mass shootings are different crimes......there were 9,616 gun murders in 2015.......there were 117 murderes in mass public shootings in 2017....And that was a particularly bad year for them....but even then.....86 people were murdered in one go in Nice, France with a rental truck, while the mass shootings were for an entire year.....

US mass shootings, 1982-2017: Data from Mother Jones’ investigation

Do you see how my solution handles the vast majority of gun criminals?

And the way you deal with mass shooters.....awareness and informing police, and then getting rid of gun free zones.

Different types of gun crime, different solutions.