More Economic Good News- Economists agree: Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs

[VaYank5150]

They work with contracts to maintain. THIS I know as fact VaYank. As a matter of fact, my lease has an escallation built in that is directly related to thye increqase in the cost of that contract.

VaYank...I know my business. I have set up two building maintenance firms in Manahttan....and expanded one of them to building cleaning...and the other I helped develop as an offshoot of a property management firm.

The costs of those and the INCREASE in cost of those are incopoirated into leases and accounted for by the escalations...thus making it recession proof.

SO I am not sure what it is you are saying....but in a way, over 2 posts you said you are increasing your business by 45% in the last 10 months in an industry where you see a drop off in business....

No....what I SAID was that budgets that are normally "recession proof" are being hit. Hence, my company has to find ways to help our customers spend their dollars more wisely, and in the end, if we can help them invest those budget dollars now on efficiences that will help them save money on energy budgets in the future, everyone wins. Add to this, my expanding customer base, and you can easily see the reasons behind our increase in overall business.

I understand. But that goes back to my original point. They can not eiminate their budgets..they need to maximize their budgets. That is what makes you recession proof. You are needed in good times and bad. Like a plumber in residential....a pipe bursts, good times or bad, yoiu need to call a plumber. You may not replace the wet carpet in a recession, but the pipe needs to be fixed.

As for your increase in reach....you have smaller competitors that are going under or mimizing their staff due to loss of credit or whatever is causing them to go under. You have a business model that allowed for loss of credit and a recession at the same time...so you survivied and you can now fill the void created by those tha went under.

All industries that service commercial real estate are deemed as recession proof as there are tenants that depend on the building being serviced. When there is a contract (lease in this case) with a thrid party, it tends to make i reesson proof.

I STILL do not like the "feel" of your words undermining the great job my people have done this year, because you feel we are in a "recession proof" industry, but I will let that go. Now, I have to address the simple fact that having a contract/lease does not account for 45% growth over last year. As I am sure you know, most increases are limited to 3-5% year over year.

 

[Gunny]

No....what I SAID was that budgets that are normally "recession proof" are being hit. Hence, my company has to find ways to help our customers spend their dollars more wisely, and in the end, if we can help them invest those budget dollars now on efficiences that will help them save money on energy budgets in the future, everyone wins. Add to this, my expanding customer base, and you can easily see the reasons behind our increase in overall business.

I understand. But that goes back to my original point. They can not eiminate their budgets..they need to maximize their budgets. That is what makes you recession proof. You are needed in good times and bad. Like a plumber in residential....a pipe bursts, good times or bad, yoiu need to call a plumber. You may not replace the wet carpet in a recession, but the pipe needs to be fixed.

As for your increase in reach....you have smaller competitors that are going under or mimizing their staff due to loss of credit or whatever is causing them to go under. You have a business model that allowed for loss of credit and a recession at the same time...so you survivied and you can now fill the void created by those tha went under.

All industries that service commercial real estate are deemed as recession proof as there are tenants that depend on the building being serviced. When there is a contract (lease in this case) with a thrid party, it tends to make i reesson proof.

I STILL do not like the "feel" of your words undermining the great job my people have done this year, because you feel we are in a "recession proof" industry, but I will let that go. Now, I have to address the simple fact that having a contract/lease does not account for 45% growth over last year. As I am sure you know, most increases are limited to 3-5% year over year.

DO you get paid to tie your shoes? If so, somebody's getting ripped off, and it ain't your dumb ass ....

 

[VaYank5150]

I understand. But that goes back to my original point. They can not eiminate their budgets..they need to maximize their budgets. That is what makes you recession proof. You are needed in good times and bad. Like a plumber in residential....a pipe bursts, good times or bad, yoiu need to call a plumber. You may not replace the wet carpet in a recession, but the pipe needs to be fixed.

As for your increase in reach....you have smaller competitors that are going under or mimizing their staff due to loss of credit or whatever is causing them to go under. You have a business model that allowed for loss of credit and a recession at the same time...so you survivied and you can now fill the void created by those tha went under.

All industries that service commercial real estate are deemed as recession proof as there are tenants that depend on the building being serviced. When there is a contract (lease in this case) with a thrid party, it tends to make i reesson proof.

I STILL do not like the "feel" of your words undermining the great job my people have done this year, because you feel we are in a "recession proof" industry, but I will let that go. Now, I have to address the simple fact that having a contract/lease does not account for 45% growth over last year. As I am sure you know, most increases are limited to 3-5% year over year.

DO you get paid to tie your shoes? If so, somebody's getting ripped off, and it ain't your dumb ass ....

Why thank you, Gunny. I know that everything you think, feel and say is 100% accurate, so I appreciate you setting me straight. Rock on, dude.

 

[Jarhead]

No....what I SAID was that budgets that are normally "recession proof" are being hit. Hence, my company has to find ways to help our customers spend their dollars more wisely, and in the end, if we can help them invest those budget dollars now on efficiences that will help them save money on energy budgets in the future, everyone wins. Add to this, my expanding customer base, and you can easily see the reasons behind our increase in overall business.

I understand. But that goes back to my original point. They can not eiminate their budgets..they need to maximize their budgets. That is what makes you recession proof. You are needed in good times and bad. Like a plumber in residential....a pipe bursts, good times or bad, yoiu need to call a plumber. You may not replace the wet carpet in a recession, but the pipe needs to be fixed.

As for your increase in reach....you have smaller competitors that are going under or mimizing their staff due to loss of credit or whatever is causing them to go under. You have a business model that allowed for loss of credit and a recession at the same time...so you survivied and you can now fill the void created by those tha went under.

All industries that service commercial real estate are deemed as recession proof as there are tenants that depend on the building being serviced. When there is a contract (lease in this case) with a thrid party, it tends to make i reesson proof.

I STILL do not like the "feel" of your words undermining the great job my people have done this year, because you feel we are in a "recession proof" industry, but I will let that go. Now, I have to address the simple fact that having a contract/lease does not account for 45% growth over last year. As I am sure you know, most increases are limited to 3-5% year over year.

I would love to give your people credit...I a sure they ar workinghard.
But it is not that I feel it is a recession proof industry. Your clients have thir party contracts. Therefore it IS a recession proof industry.
But if you think your revenue jumped up 45% in a recession where most see little to negaive growth becuase ofyou employes hard work, then you are mistaken.

I dont get you VaYank. Soemthing is way off with what yu are saying....

Whereas others on here can say "Jarhead doesnt know what he is talking about" and you can say the same thing....both you and I know that I absolutely know what I am talking about.....and sorry, but it just does not add up.

 

[rightwinger]

All one has to do is look at the economic trends before the Stimulus and TARP passed and after. The financial markets were in a panic as the Dow Jones shed 7000 points. GDP was negative in five of the six previous quarters. The Auto Companies and Banks were on the verge of collapse. We were losing 600,000 jobs a month.

All of these trends reversed after the Stimulus passed. It sent an indicator that the US Government would stand behind the economy. Since then..

- Dow is up 4000 points
- GDP is up for four consecutive quarters
- Job losses have stabilized and even gone positive in recent months
- GM is ready to go public again and is repaying the money

and a recession, that usually sees a recvovery begin within 8 to 16 months, is not yet showing a recovery 24 months later.

If you believed the rhetoric of the 2008 campaign, then yes, we were headed for a depression. But we can not forget...Obama wanted to win the election so he would say whatever he had to in an effort to win.

SO I didnt believe him.

Many of us didnt.

The stimulus did nothing but stablize...and likely dramaticall stunt and slow any recovery.

So what you see as short term "good" I see as lontg term "crap".

You have to understand the difference between a recession and a Republican Recession. Normal recessions are cyclical resets of the economy and can basically be ignored. A Republican Recession is a once in a lifetime event (Great Depression, Bush Recession) that requires immediate Government action to prevent a complete economic collapse

 

[Truthmatters]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

You are so fucking stupid you dont even realise that things are better than GWBush left us with.

You guys want to go right back into doing the shit that got us here.

Good God... you constantly prove that there isn't a more ignorant person here than you.

We are NOT better off. The economy is NOT better off. Jobs are NOT better off. Banks are NOT better off. NOTHING is better off, than it was under Bush... NOTHING! Our economy is in the TOILET, and in large part because of the OUT OF CONTROL, OUT OF TOUCH, RADICAL, SOCIALISTIC SPEND, SPEND, SPEND LIKE THE WIND actions of you and your PISS FOR BRAINS DEMOCRATS! The country is BROKE! The only people that don't seem to get is you and your shit eating liberal dick heads.

Give it a rest. She tends to regurgitate what she hears with little or know comprhension of what is beingsiad other than the words themselves.

Obama siad we were eading for a depression so in her eyes, tha is fact.
Obama said "it could have been worse" and so it is fact.
Obama siad itwas rightwing poilicies that got us here and so it is fact.

What she does not realize is he said it on the campaign trail...and w all know that politicans will say whatevert hey have to in aneffort to win an election.

The facts are in this report.

Bush himself said the economy was about to collapse.

Every sane person in the world realises this economic condition arose under Bush and team.

They added to it instead of doing what was needed to head it off.

Only partisan hacks like yourselves pretend Bush and team had nothing to do with it.

 

[rightwinger]

No... you seem to forget that the rich have the exact same rights, freedoms, and protections by law as the poor or as the middle class

nice try at using that bullshit chestnut again, though

When ~50% pay no income tax at all... or when not every dollar is taxed the same way for each citizen... THAT is indeed against equitable treatment.... there is no right of government to act as some governor for 'equitable distribution' of wealth, though extreme leftists would like it to be

Opinion.. Obama and the government as a whole should not have spent dime 1 on the stimulus.. (see, I keep opinions as opinions... while you continually try and assert your opinion as fact)

Tax increases do not create jobs... that we have learned over and over and over

Show me where equitable payment of taxes is required in the Constitution? I notice you want a strict enforcement of the Constitution. What percentage of Americans paid federal taxes in 1785? It was closer to 20% than the 50% now.

Who paid taxes back then? The wealthy land owners

It was not till the enactment of income taxes that the middle class assumed a higher federal tax burden

So you then support only selective equal treatment by the government upon citizens?? So if an when a law is enacted to give the poor less of a governmental benefit, you will be OK with that??

Sorry bubba... how may of those not paying income taxes in 1785 also DID NOT VOTE??

I never said that tax rates were covered in the constitution... but I have stated over and over and over again that I am not for the types of selective equal treatment that you and your ilk are... You only cry for equal treatment when it benefits you, and you cry for unequal treatment when it benefits you... your little greed and envy inspired mantra of government entitlement

Being a Huge fan of the US Constitution, I support the requirement that Congress has the right to collect taxes to raise revenue. "We the People" elect Congress to determine an equitable tax structure. Over the last 30 years that tax structure has been tilted to ease the tax burden on the wealthiest Americans.
The result has been a redistribution of wealth from the Middle Class to the richest 10%

 

[saveliberty]

All one has to do is look at the economic trends before the Stimulus and TARP passed and after. The financial markets were in a panic as the Dow Jones shed 7000 points. GDP was negative in five of the six previous quarters. The Auto Companies and Banks were on the verge of collapse. We were losing 600,000 jobs a month.

All of these trends reversed after the Stimulus passed. It sent an indicator that the US Government would stand behind the economy. Since then..

- Dow is up 4000 points
- GDP is up for four consecutive quarters
- Job losses have stabilized and even gone positive in recent months
- GM is ready to go public again and is repaying the money

and a recession, that usually sees a recvovery begin within 8 to 16 months, is not yet showing a recovery 24 months later.

If you believed the rhetoric of the 2008 campaign, then yes, we were headed for a depression. But we can not forget...Obama wanted to win the election so he would say whatever he had to in an effort to win.

SO I didnt believe him.

Many of us didnt.

The stimulus did nothing but stablize...and likely dramaticall stunt and slow any recovery.

So what you see as short term "good" I see as lontg term "crap".

You have to understand the difference between a recession and a Republican Recession. Normal recessions are cyclical resets of the economy and can basically be ignored. A Republican Recession is a once in a lifetime event (Great Depression, Bush Recession) that requires immediate Government action to prevent a complete economic collapse

Wishful thinking.

 

[boedicca]

Absolute poppycock.

This is all based on a what if model that assumes a high multiplier on government spending which is not accurate.

What leads you to believe Rogoff's work is based on a "high" multiplier for government spending?

Any dollar the government spends is a dollar taken away from the private sector.

Current government borrowing is coming from foreign nations and from people so risk averse that they'll accept a near-negative interest rate. They allocated that money to the most productive place they could find, and that place is paying almost nothing.

It wouldn't hurt if you actually read the article:

At issue is the so-called multiplier effect of government spending. Economists such as Taylor who are skeptical of government's pump-priming role argue that for every additional $1 of government spending, GDP increases by less than $1. Those whose models back the stimulus generally assume that $1 in government spending adds more than $1 to total output via the multiplier effect. "If you crank up government spending, it will create jobs," says Sung Won Sohn, an economist at California State University.

Other economists disagree with the 1+ multiplier used by the Obama Administration:

Back in the 1980s, many commentators ridiculed as voodoo economics the extreme supply-side view that across-the-board cuts in income-tax rates might raise overall tax revenues. Now we have the extreme demand-side view that the so-called "multiplier" effect of government spending on economic output is greater than one -- Team Obama is reportedly using a number around 1.5.

(snip)

We can consider similarly three other U.S. wartime experiences -- World War I, the Korean War, and the Vietnam War -- although the magnitudes of the added defense expenditures were much smaller in comparison to GDP. Combining the evidence with that of World War II (which gets a lot of the weight because the added government spending is so large in that case) yields an overall estimate of the multiplier of 0.8 -- the same value as before. (These estimates were published last year in my book, "Macroeconomics, a Modern Approach.")

There are reasons to believe that the war-based multiplier of 0.8 substantially overstates the multiplier that applies to peacetime government purchases. For one thing, people would expect the added wartime outlays to be partly temporary (so that consumer demand would not fall a lot). Second, the use of the military draft in wartime has a direct, coercive effect on total employment. Finally, the U.S. economy was already growing rapidly after 1933 (aside from the 1938 recession), and it is probably unfair to ascribe all of the rapid GDP growth from 1941 to 1945 to the added military outlays. In any event, when I attempted to estimate directly the multiplier associated with peacetime government purchases, I got a number insignificantly different from zero.

Current government borrowing which is expanding the size of government from the Post WWII level of approximately 20% of GDP to closing in on 30% if Obamanomics is implemented in full is not affordable for the private sector regardless of how much cheap foreign money we are able to borrow. When government grows faster than the economy, it sucks the oxygen out of the private sector.

That's why unemployment remains high now and for the forseeable future.

IOW, It's the Jobs, Stupid - as the Dems will discover in November.

 

[Truthmatters]

Its history not wishful thinking.

I know you all hate history along with sceince, higher education and this report which prooves the stim worked and is still working.

 

[boedicca]

The report is pure fantasy and political propaganda, hence it's appeal to TM.

 

[rightwinger]

The report is pure fantasy and political propaganda, hence it's appeal to TM.

Thats because the Republicans already wrote the history of the Stimulus as soon as it passed.... The Stimulus will Fail

No need to check whether it failed or not

 

[Truthmatters]

The report is pure fantasy and political propaganda, hence it's appeal to TM.

Heres your average con of today.

They think all you have to do is insult facts and they go away.

No history, no science, no higher education and no facts will keep them from their appointed duty, defend the right no matter how unproven or defeated the ideas are.

 

[boedicca]

The report is pure fantasy and political propaganda, hence it's appeal to TM.

Thats because the Republicans already wrote the history of the Stimulus as soon as it passed.... The Stimulus will Fail

No need to check whether it failed or not

Did the Stimulus keep unemployment below 8%? It was the Obama Administration that claimed it would, not the GOP.

 

[boedicca]

The report is pure fantasy and political propaganda, hence it's appeal to TM.

Heres your average con of today.

They think all you have to do is insult facts and they go away.

No history, no science, no higher education and no facts will keep them from their appointed duty, defend the right no matter how unproven or defeated the ideas are.

Please show how history supports the 1.5 multiplier effect that the Obama Administration is using to support its jobs created figure.

 

[Jarhead]

Good God... you constantly prove that there isn't a more ignorant person here than you.

We are NOT better off. The economy is NOT better off. Jobs are NOT better off. Banks are NOT better off. NOTHING is better off, than it was under Bush... NOTHING! Our economy is in the TOILET, and in large part because of the OUT OF CONTROL, OUT OF TOUCH, RADICAL, SOCIALISTIC SPEND, SPEND, SPEND LIKE THE WIND actions of you and your PISS FOR BRAINS DEMOCRATS! The country is BROKE! The only people that don't seem to get is you and your shit eating liberal dick heads.

Give it a rest. She tends to regurgitate what she hears with little or know comprhension of what is beingsiad other than the words themselves.

Obama siad we were eading for a depression so in her eyes, tha is fact.
Obama said "it could have been worse" and so it is fact.
Obama siad itwas rightwing poilicies that got us here and so it is fact.

What she does not realize is he said it on the campaign trail...and w all know that politicans will say whatevert hey have to in aneffort to win an election.

The facts are in this report.

Bush himself said the economy was about to collapse.

Every sane person in the world realises this economic condition arose under Bush and team.

They added to it instead of doing what was needed to head it off.

Only partisan hacks like yourselves pretend Bush and team had nothing to do with it.

LMAO. You call me a partisan hack. YOU...of all poeple.

Everyone knew it arose under Bush. No one is arguing that you moron. He was President when it started you fucking tool.
Bush did not say the economy was going to collapse. He was concerned the fiancial system was going to collapse and thus he pushed TARP so the banks can lend. But that was due to the credit crunch you fucking loser, not the recession.
No one party added to anything you fucking puker of left wing blog crap.
It was government as a whole that fucked up you partisan loser. But that did not cause the recession you loser of all losers. It was their lack of oversight that caused the credit meltdown.
And I will say it again...Bush had nothing to do with the recession just as no President has anything to do with the arising of any recession.

You fucking moron. Presidsents do not cause recessions. Get over it. Disagree with his war policy. Every wartime president has people disagree with them.

But to blame one man with the recession? One man who does not write policy...he simply signs what the majpority in congress writes and votes for? THAT is who you blame?

What a tool. Fucking idiots debate on this board. It is funny to watch. You really are clueless.

 

[johnrocks]

There are economists saying just the opposite too, like the old saying about opinions and asses.....

 

[Jarhead]

The report is pure fantasy and political propaganda, hence it's appeal to TM.

Heres your average con of today.

They think all you have to do is insult facts and they go away.

No history, no science, no higher education and no facts will keep them from their appointed duty, defend the right no matter how unproven or defeated the ideas are.

Please show how history supports the 1.5 multiplier effect that the Obama Administration is using to support it's jobs created figure.

Ten to one you lost her.
She obviously knows nothing about economics and government.
She only knows what time Olbermann and Maddow are on TV.

 

[boedicca]

You've already won that bet.

Anything having to do with actual economics wooshes through the empty space between her ears.

And government to her is just Big Mommy and Daddy.

 

[rightwinger]

You've already one that bet.

Anything having to do with actual economics wooshes through the empty space between her ears.

And government to her is just Big Mommy and Daddy.

I never "one" a bet before

Must be all that wind wooshing through my empty head