More Economic Good News- Economists agree: Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs

[CrusaderFrank]

Hmm, lemme see...

$850,000,000,000 in Stimulus Fund divided by

3,000,000 jobs "Created" =

$283,333 per job.

Terrific.

 

[Jarhead]

George Bush and the Republicans, using their "tax cuts for the rich" theory of economics created 3 million jobs in 8 years. Of course, they lost 750,000 a month just before Obama took office. Guess that doesn't count.

Funny that it keeps being called tax cuts for 'the rich'... yet most Americans saw tax cuts.. and the 'evil rich' still payed a higher % than others.. .all in this country where even DEMs SUPPOSEDLY believe in equal treatment under the law

Funny... as stated many times before... bet you any amount that you and your ilk would be calling for tax cuts, if everyone was taxed on every dollar at the rates that you propose for the 'rich'

The rich receive more because they earn more. When 34% of the tax cut goes to 1% of the population, you do not have an equatable distribution

Fact is Obama should have spent the entire stimulus on small business and public works projects. The tax cut was an ill-fated attempt to placate Republican Congressmen who didn't vote for the bill anyway.

Tax cuts do not create jobs....we have learned that over and over

We have?
I guess you have not been following the trends of the last 50 years.

 

[saveliberty]

Economists agree: Stimulus created nearly 3 million jobs - USATODAY.com

A recent study by two prominent economists generally agrees, crediting the pump-priming with averting "what could have been called Great Depression 2.0."

Eighteen months later, the consensus among economists is that the stimulus worked in staving off a rerun of the 1930s. But the spending's impact was dwarfed by other crisis-fighting tools deployed by the Bush and Obama administrations, including costly efforts to stabilize crippled banks and the Fed's unconventional monetary policy.

"I think it was important for confidence. ... But fiscal stimulus was the least important of the three planks of the government's strategy," said Harvard University's Kenneth Rogoff, former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund.

Pretty careful editing there rightwinger. This is what i saw:

"The White House says the multiyear $814 billion stimulus program passed by Congress in 2009 boosted employment by 2.5 million to 3.6 million jobs and raised the nation's annual economic output by almost $400 billion. A recent study by two prominent economists generally agrees, crediting the pump-priming with averting "what could have been called Great Depression 2.0."

"It's impossible to determine precisely how many jobs or how much growth the stimulus program caused. In a nearly $14 trillion economy, economists can't go employer to employer counting new hires. And there are too many moving parts to confidently link any single factor with individual hiring decisions."

"Not everyone is convinced. "I can't find in my analysis that the 2009 stimulus package had much effect at all," says economist John Taylor of Stanford University.

Taylor, who served as undersecretary of the Treasury under former president George W. Bush, says the recovery that began last year stemmed from a pickup in business investment unrelated to government spending. He dismissed the Zandi-Blinder conclusions as divorced from what is actually occurring in the economy and reflecting built-in assumptions about the impact of government spending.

At issue is the so-called multiplier effect of government spending. Economists such as Taylor who are skeptical of government's pump-priming role argue that for every additional $1 of government spending, GDP increases by less than $1. Those whose models back the stimulus generally assume that $1 in government spending adds more than $1 to total output via the multiplier effect. "If you crank up government spending, it will create jobs," says Sung Won Sohn, an economist at California State University."

A flawed model yielding flawed results. Big surprise there.

 

[VaYank5150]

I dont agree with that seeing as the money did not come from the private sector...yet.
It is borrowed money money for now.
However, as a business owner and business planner, I will say as a fact that I am not nor are my clients hiring based on the anticipated increase in taxes, increase in capital gains taxes, anticipated increase in healthcare costs to the employers...and the fear of a lame duck congress putting through agenda crap such as cap and trade in december is also keeping people in the wings "waiting".

Business owners income is based primarily on distributions which come from the gross net after operating costs and payroll costs....and as me, business owners have established a cost of living for ourselves that we can not compromise....not because we are greedy but becuase we can not compromise our credit rating as it will be impossible to rebound if we lose our credit rating.

During a time of growth, one must always have access to bridge loans....if we lose our credit rating now, we will not have access to bridge loans.

As much as people want to claim such is right wing talking points. It is not.

As long as there is the atmospere of "business owners will have to pay for the people in the interim", business owners will not expand.

Maybe it is because of the sector I am in, or perhaps because of how large our company is, my hiring practices have not been tied to "anticipated increase in taxes, increase in capital gains taxes, anticipated increase in healthcare costs to the employers...and the fear of a lame duck congress putting through agenda crap such as cap and trade in december is also keeping people in the wings "waiting"".
I hire additonal resources in order to drive additional revenues where I see the needs and opportunities in my sector. Why do you do things so differently?

Becuase smart business owners do not hire additional resources to drive additonal revenues when there are no indicators that additonal revenue can be generated.

Why would you throw in a basic "growth formual" of "addtional resources=additional revenue" when we are in an atmosphere of 9.5% unemployment without a sign of it getting better; a depressed housing market; and no meaningful growth in GDP?

I mean...really?

Because my business IS growing? Here locally, my group has grown 45% since FY10 started for us back in October. I can assure you I am not just "winging it" when it comes to hiring people.....

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Serves me right for assuming a Progressive would actually bother to read the fucking article the attach.

8.5E+11/1100000=772,727.27

Wow! Hail Obama and his $772,000 jobs!

 

[asterism]

I hire additonal resources in order to drive additional revenues where I see the needs and opportunities in my sector.

You hire to drive revenues and not profits? Strange.

 

[DiamondDave]

George Bush and the Republicans, using their "tax cuts for the rich" theory of economics created 3 million jobs in 8 years. Of course, they lost 750,000 a month just before Obama took office. Guess that doesn't count.

Funny that it keeps being called tax cuts for 'the rich'... yet most Americans saw tax cuts.. and the 'evil rich' still payed a higher % than others.. .all in this country where even DEMs SUPPOSEDLY believe in equal treatment under the law

Funny... as stated many times before... bet you any amount that you and your ilk would be calling for tax cuts, if everyone was taxed on every dollar at the rates that you propose for the 'rich'

The rich receive more because they earn more. When 34% of the tax cut goes to 1% of the population, you do not have an equatable distribution

Fact is Obama should have spent the entire stimulus on small business and public works projects. The tax cut was an ill-fated attempt to placate Republican Congressmen who didn't vote for the bill anyway.

Tax cuts do not create jobs....we have learned that over and over

No... you seem to forget that the rich have the exact same rights, freedoms, and protections by law as the poor or as the middle class

nice try at using that bullshit chestnut again, though

When ~50% pay no income tax at all... or when not every dollar is taxed the same way for each citizen... THAT is indeed against equitable treatment.... there is no right of government to act as some governor for 'equitable distribution' of wealth, though extreme leftists would like it to be

Opinion.. Obama and the government as a whole should not have spent dime 1 on the stimulus.. (see, I keep opinions as opinions... while you continually try and assert your opinion as fact)

Tax increases do not create jobs... that we have learned over and over and over

 

[Jarhead]

Maybe it is because of the sector I am in, or perhaps because of how large our company is, my hiring practices have not been tied to "anticipated increase in taxes, increase in capital gains taxes, anticipated increase in healthcare costs to the employers...and the fear of a lame duck congress putting through agenda crap such as cap and trade in december is also keeping people in the wings "waiting"".
I hire additonal resources in order to drive additional revenues where I see the needs and opportunities in my sector. Why do you do things so differently?

Becuase smart business owners do not hire additional resources to drive additonal revenues when there are no indicators that additonal revenue can be generated.

Why would you throw in a basic "growth formual" of "addtional resources=additional revenue" when we are in an atmosphere of 9.5% unemployment without a sign of it getting better; a depressed housing market; and no meaningful growth in GDP?

I mean...really?

Because my business IS growing? Here locally, my group has grown 45% since FY10 started for us back in October. I can assure you I am not just "winging it" when it comes to hiring people.....

So give me a hint. What sector? You are aware, of course, that if you grew 45% compared to the rest of the country, there shouyld be some very interesting articles about your sector.

What business are you in?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Maybe it is because of the sector I am in, or perhaps because of how large our company is, my hiring practices have not been tied to "anticipated increase in taxes, increase in capital gains taxes, anticipated increase in healthcare costs to the employers...and the fear of a lame duck congress putting through agenda crap such as cap and trade in december is also keeping people in the wings "waiting"".
I hire additonal resources in order to drive additional revenues where I see the needs and opportunities in my sector. Why do you do things so differently?

Becuase smart business owners do not hire additional resources to drive additonal revenues when there are no indicators that additonal revenue can be generated.

Why would you throw in a basic "growth formual" of "addtional resources=additional revenue" when we are in an atmosphere of 9.5% unemployment without a sign of it getting better; a depressed housing market; and no meaningful growth in GDP?

I mean...really?

Because my business IS growing? Here locally, my group has grown 45% since FY10 started for us back in October. I can assure you I am not just "winging it" when it comes to hiring people.....

Hmm Oct fiscal year...the government works on an October year end...are you a government entity?

 

[Jarhead]

I hire additonal resources in order to drive additional revenues where I see the needs and opportunities in my sector.

You hire to drive revenues and not profits? Strange.

I personally find the 45% growth in FY 2010 stranger.

Driving revenue is usually the notivating factor of growth seeing as most established business have a decreasing revenue/operating cost ratio....once yoiu are estbalished, each increment of growth does not cost one increment of operating costs.

So many look to increase revenue as it will likely increase profits even greater.

 

[rightwinger]

All one has to do is look at the economic trends before the Stimulus and TARP passed and after. The financial markets were in a panic as the Dow Jones shed 7000 points. GDP was negative in five of the six previous quarters. The Auto Companies and Banks were on the verge of collapse. We were losing 600,000 jobs a month.

All of these trends reversed after the Stimulus passed. It sent an indicator that the US Government would stand behind the economy. Since then..

- Dow is up 4000 points
- GDP is up for four consecutive quarters
- Job losses have stabilized and even gone positive in recent months
- GM is ready to go public again and is repaying the money

 

[VaYank5150]

Becuase smart business owners do not hire additional resources to drive additonal revenues when there are no indicators that additonal revenue can be generated.

Why would you throw in a basic "growth formual" of "addtional resources=additional revenue" when we are in an atmosphere of 9.5% unemployment without a sign of it getting better; a depressed housing market; and no meaningful growth in GDP?

I mean...really?

Because my business IS growing? Here locally, my group has grown 45% since FY10 started for us back in October. I can assure you I am not just "winging it" when it comes to hiring people.....

So give me a hint. What sector? You are aware, of course, that if you grew 45% compared to the rest of the country, there shouyld be some very interesting articles about your sector.

What business are you in?

No, my business is up 45% over last year. I am in the HVAC/DDC/Automation/Energy Management sector....we do a lot of things, but basically we control commerical and industrial buildings' HVAC equipment and manage energy savings through our sequences.

 

[Jarhead]

All one has to do is look at the economic trends before the Stimulus and TARP passed and after. The financial markets were in a panic as the Dow Jones shed 7000 points. GDP was negative in five of the six previous quarters. The Auto Companies and Banks were on the verge of collapse. We were losing 600,000 jobs a month.

All of these trends reversed after the Stimulus passed. It sent an indicator that the US Government would stand behind the economy. Since then..

- Dow is up 4000 points
- GDP is up for four consecutive quarters
- Job losses have stabilized and even gone positive in recent months
- GM is ready to go public again and is repaying the money

and a recession, that usually sees a recvovery begin within 8 to 16 months, is not yet showing a recovery 24 months later.

If you believed the rhetoric of the 2008 campaign, then yes, we were headed for a depression. But we can not forget...Obama wanted to win the election so he would say whatever he had to in an effort to win.

SO I didnt believe him.

Many of us didnt.

The stimulus did nothing but stablize...and likely dramaticall stunt and slow any recovery.

So what you see as short term "good" I see as lontg term "crap".

 

[The Rabbi]

WRONG.
Thread fail. Two paid economists does not translate to "economists."
Robert J. Barro: Government Spending Is No Free Lunch - WSJ.com
Robert Barro: The Folly of Subsidizing Unemployment - WSJ.com
In the second link Borro describes how the extension of unemployment benefits has kept the rate high and had they not done that the rate would be about 6.8% instead. The stimulus is a failure, Obama's policies are failures, his team needs to go.

 

[VaYank5150]

Becuase smart business owners do not hire additional resources to drive additonal revenues when there are no indicators that additonal revenue can be generated.

Why would you throw in a basic "growth formual" of "addtional resources=additional revenue" when we are in an atmosphere of 9.5% unemployment without a sign of it getting better; a depressed housing market; and no meaningful growth in GDP?

I mean...really?

Because my business IS growing? Here locally, my group has grown 45% since FY10 started for us back in October. I can assure you I am not just "winging it" when it comes to hiring people.....

Hmm Oct fiscal year...the government works on an October year end...are you a government entity?

Most local and state governments in Virginia operate on a July-June fiscal year. Just FYI.

 

[DiamondDave]

All one has to do is look at the economic trends before the Stimulus and TARP passed and after. The financial markets were in a panic as the Dow Jones shed 7000 points. GDP was negative in five of the six previous quarters. The Auto Companies and Banks were on the verge of collapse. We were losing 600,000 jobs a month.

All of these trends reversed after the Stimulus passed. It sent an indicator that the US Government would stand behind the economy. Since then..

- Dow is up 4000 points
- GDP is up for four consecutive quarters
- Job losses have stabilized and even gone positive in recent months
- GM is ready to go public again and is repaying the money

And to keep up your trend.. you need more government spending based on higher taxation or even more borrowing... all for red-tape created government jobs that are more costly than the counterparts in the private sector... the ever expanding tendrils of big government

Fortunately... I am not one to believe that the government is the end-all-be-all for the success or failure of the stock market, private industry, or the economic prowess of citizens within this country... but the left-wing fear machine sure has one like wrongwinger fooled into believing it

In this country, we also have the freedom to succeed or fail.. and the government does not exist to take from those who do succeed to prop up those who have failed using their same freedoms

 

[Jarhead]

Because my business IS growing? Here locally, my group has grown 45% since FY10 started for us back in October. I can assure you I am not just "winging it" when it comes to hiring people.....

So give me a hint. What sector? You are aware, of course, that if you grew 45% compared to the rest of the country, there shouyld be some very interesting articles about your sector.

What business are you in?

No, my business is up 45% over last year. I am in the HVAC/DDC/Automation/Energy Management sector....we do a lot of things, but basically we control commerical and industrial buildings' HVAC equipment and manage energy savings through our sequences.

So you are in a maintenance industry. A recession proof industry. Good times or bad, systems in commercial and industrial properties need to be maintained. So growth in a recession that included a credit crunch is likely for a company with credit as they are able to poick up the void created by smaller competitors going under.

Like I said...good times or bad, YOURS is not a luxury to your client base. YOURS is a necessity.

VaYank...it is my job to analyze industries and make recommendations. I would recommend you grow now for sure....but most do not have the luxury of ebing in a recssion prooof industry.

Commercial and hi rise residential Real Estate management firms are doing well...accounting firms, Durable Medical Equipment firms.....all recession proof.....

 

[rightwinger]

Funny that it keeps being called tax cuts for 'the rich'... yet most Americans saw tax cuts.. and the 'evil rich' still payed a higher % than others.. .all in this country where even DEMs SUPPOSEDLY believe in equal treatment under the law

Funny... as stated many times before... bet you any amount that you and your ilk would be calling for tax cuts, if everyone was taxed on every dollar at the rates that you propose for the 'rich'

The rich receive more because they earn more. When 34% of the tax cut goes to 1% of the population, you do not have an equatable distribution

Fact is Obama should have spent the entire stimulus on small business and public works projects. The tax cut was an ill-fated attempt to placate Republican Congressmen who didn't vote for the bill anyway.

Tax cuts do not create jobs....we have learned that over and over

No... you seem to forget that the rich have the exact same rights, freedoms, and protections by law as the poor or as the middle class

nice try at using that bullshit chestnut again, though

When ~50% pay no income tax at all... or when not every dollar is taxed the same way for each citizen... THAT is indeed against equitable treatment.... there is no right of government to act as some governor for 'equitable distribution' of wealth, though extreme leftists would like it to be

Opinion.. Obama and the government as a whole should not have spent dime 1 on the stimulus.. (see, I keep opinions as opinions... while you continually try and assert your opinion as fact)

Tax increases do not create jobs... that we have learned over and over and over

Show me where equitable payment of taxes is required in the Constitution? I notice you want a strict enforcement of the Constitution. What percentage of Americans paid federal taxes in 1785? It was closer to 20% than the 50% now.

Who paid taxes back then? The wealthy land owners

It was not till the enactment of income taxes that the middle class assumed a higher federal tax burden

 

[VaYank5150]

So give me a hint. What sector? You are aware, of course, that if you grew 45% compared to the rest of the country, there shouyld be some very interesting articles about your sector.

What business are you in?

No, my business is up 45% over last year. I am in the HVAC/DDC/Automation/Energy Management sector....we do a lot of things, but basically we control commerical and industrial buildings' HVAC equipment and manage energy savings through our sequences.

So you are in a maintenance industry. A recession proof industry. Good times or bad, systems in commercial and industrial properties need to be maintained. So growth in a recession that included a credit crunch is likely for a company with credit as they are able to poick up the void created by smaller competitors going under.

Like I said...good times or bad, YOURS is not a luxury to your client base. YOURS is a necessity.

VaYank...it is my job to analyze industries and make recommendations. I would recommend you grow now for sure....but most do not have the luxury of ebing in a recssion prooof industry.

Commercial and hi rise residential Real Estate management firms are doing well...accounting firms, Durable Medical Equipment firms.....all recession proof.....

Apparently, you do not know much about my industry, because I am seeing cuts in customers that are normally "recession proof", such as healthcare and government. For you to sit back wherever you are and assume that my sector is recession proof, as opposed to finding new ways to sell to my customers is insulting at best. Good luck with your analyses.

 

[DiamondDave]

The rich receive more because they earn more. When 34% of the tax cut goes to 1% of the population, you do not have an equatable distribution

Fact is Obama should have spent the entire stimulus on small business and public works projects. The tax cut was an ill-fated attempt to placate Republican Congressmen who didn't vote for the bill anyway.

Tax cuts do not create jobs....we have learned that over and over

No... you seem to forget that the rich have the exact same rights, freedoms, and protections by law as the poor or as the middle class

nice try at using that bullshit chestnut again, though

When ~50% pay no income tax at all... or when not every dollar is taxed the same way for each citizen... THAT is indeed against equitable treatment.... there is no right of government to act as some governor for 'equitable distribution' of wealth, though extreme leftists would like it to be

Opinion.. Obama and the government as a whole should not have spent dime 1 on the stimulus.. (see, I keep opinions as opinions... while you continually try and assert your opinion as fact)

Tax increases do not create jobs... that we have learned over and over and over

Show me where equitable payment of taxes is required in the Constitution? I notice you want a strict enforcement of the Constitution. What percentage of Americans paid federal taxes in 1785? It was closer to 20% than the 50% now.

Who paid taxes back then? The wealthy land owners

It was not till the enactment of income taxes that the middle class assumed a higher federal tax burden

So you then support only selective equal treatment by the government upon citizens?? So if an when a law is enacted to give the poor less of a governmental benefit, you will be OK with that??

Sorry bubba... how may of those not paying income taxes in 1785 also DID NOT VOTE??

I never said that tax rates were covered in the constitution... but I have stated over and over and over again that I am not for the types of selective equal treatment that you and your ilk are... You only cry for equal treatment when it benefits you, and you cry for unequal treatment when it benefits you... your little greed and envy inspired mantra of government entitlement