More bad news Republicans, U.S. manufacturing expands at fastest pace in 10 months

[wjmacguffin]

WASHINGTON — U.S. manufacturing grew last month at the fastest pace in 10 months. New orders, production and a measure of hiring all rose.

The strength at U.S. factories suggests the economy is healthier than recent data had indicated. That’s a hopeful sign ahead of Friday’s report on hiring in April.

The Institute for Supply Management, a trade group of purchasing managers, said Tuesday that its index of manufacturing activity reached 54.8 in April. That’s the highest level since June and up from 53.4 the previous month. Readings above 50 indicate expansion.

The report, which exceeded analysts’ expectations, led investors to shift money out of bonds and into stocks. The flurry of stock buying put the Dow Jones industrial average on track for its highest close in more than four years.

US manufacturing expands at fastest pace in 10 months, as economy shows resilience - The Washington Post

Overall, there has been a slight increase in low paying jobs such as the service sector. Higher paying jobs are on a steady decline. But don't expect the BS artist we have for president to ever tell the truth about anything.

Sadly, that is true about the US economy for decades. The service sector has been growing steadily as wages have stagnated. Don't know how you can blame Obama, Bush II, or any president for that since they aren't hiring--it's the businesses that are hiring. (Well, I suppose you could make an argument for the decline of unions in allowing businesses to lower pay, but I don't have any data to support that.)

 

[wjmacguffin]

It's difficult to give credit (good or bad) to any president for the economy, since the economy is incredibly complex and presidents have limited authority to affect it.

As a liberal, I don't think Bush is at fault for the Great Recession. His tax cuts helped create huge deficits and did not lead to improved economic data despite the "trickle down" theory, but that did not cause any recession.

But the economy is improving under Obama. His handling of the auto industry helped significantly. I don't think you can say Obama saved the economy--like I said, it's all too complex to credit any one person--but at the very least you can say Obama helping.

His policy effect economy
Regulations that cost businesses will have an effect on the economy
His energy policy will have an effect on gas prices.

I don't mean presidents have no effect. It's just that there's so much out of his/her control that it's not right to credit/blame presidents for the economy as a whole.

According to a survey by Forbes, businesses say regulations DO NOT impact them negatively. Insurance costs is the number one problem. Again, this is small businesses talking to Forbes, not a government-run survey.

Gas prices are this high mostly due to MidEast instability (i.e. Iran) and speculation. Under Obama, oil use has declined and drilling has increased. Not sure how both of those could drive prices upward.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Then there's the pure political aspect of economic data. Today, unemployment is improving, manufacturing is up, consumer confidence is getting better, the stock market is higher than even, and gas prices are slightly retreating. There's plenty of time between now and November, but if things keep going this way, people* will credit Obama (rightfully or wrongfully) with improving the economy and he will win.


* Except for fanatical, neo-fascist conservatives who think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim Socialist Communist.

Again without using obama's labor department numbers show us how good the economy is again?

So you are accusing the US department of labor of rigging employment figures to make Obama look better? Seriously?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

It's difficult to give credit (good or bad) to any president for the economy, since the economy is incredibly complex and presidents have limited authority to affect it.

As a liberal, I don't think Bush is at fault for the Great Recession. His tax cuts helped create huge deficits and did not lead to improved economic data despite the "trickle down" theory, but that did not cause any recession.

But the economy is improving under Obama. His handling of the auto industry helped significantly. I don't think you can say Obama saved the economy--like I said, it's all too complex to credit any one person--but at the very least you can say Obama helping.

His policy effect economy
Regulations that cost businesses will have an effect on the economy
His energy policy will have an effect on gas prices.

I don't mean presidents have no effect. It's just that there's so much out of his/her control that it's not right to credit/blame presidents for the economy as a whole.

According to a survey by Forbes, businesses say regulations DO NOT impact them negatively. Insurance costs is the number one problem. Again, this is small businesses talking to Forbes, not a government-run survey.

Gas prices are this high mostly due to MidEast instability (i.e. Iran) and speculation. Under Obama, oil use has declined and drilling has increased. Not sure how both of those could drive prices upward.

Gas prices are this high mostly due to MidEast instability

We've heard this for years but when crude was at 148.00 a barrel and gas was over 4.00 gallon cannot explain why crude hasn't gotten to 120.00 a barrel but gas is at and above 4.00 gallon. So try again with that worn out argument

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Then there's the pure political aspect of economic data. Today, unemployment is improving, manufacturing is up, consumer confidence is getting better, the stock market is higher than even, and gas prices are slightly retreating. There's plenty of time between now and November, but if things keep going this way, people* will credit Obama (rightfully or wrongfully) with improving the economy and he will win.


* Except for fanatical, neo-fascist conservatives who think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim Socialist Communist.

Again without using obama's labor department numbers show us how good the economy is again?

So you are accusing the US department of labor of rigging employment figures to make Obama look better? Seriously?

Hell yes I'm accusing obama's labor department with lying.

 

[Jarhead]

WASHINGTON — U.S. manufacturing grew last month at the fastest pace in 10 months. New orders, production and a measure of hiring all rose.

The strength at U.S. factories suggests the economy is healthier than recent data had indicated. That’s a hopeful sign ahead of Friday’s report on hiring in April.

The Institute for Supply Management, a trade group of purchasing managers, said Tuesday that its index of manufacturing activity reached 54.8 in April. That’s the highest level since June and up from 53.4 the previous month. Readings above 50 indicate expansion.

The report, which exceeded analysts’ expectations, led investors to shift money out of bonds and into stocks. The flurry of stock buying put the Dow Jones industrial average on track for its highest close in more than four years.

US manufacturing expands at fastest pace in 10 months, as economy shows resilience - The Washington Post

Overall, there has been a slight increase in low paying jobs such as the service sector. Higher paying jobs are on a steady decline. But don't expect the BS artist we have for president to ever tell the truth about anything.

Sadly, that is true about the US economy for decades. The service sector has been growing steadily as wages have stagnated. Don't know how you can blame Obama, Bush II, or any president for that since they aren't hiring--it's the businesses that are hiring. (Well, I suppose you could make an argument for the decline of unions in allowing businesses to lower pay, but I don't have any data to support that.)

Wages have stagnated, yes....but overall compensation has not. Years ago, health insurance was exactly that...insurance. It was for something unexpected; something catastrophic. All of us used to pay our annual MD visits out of pocket. Our scripts were out of pocket. Then there was a push for standard medical costs to be covered by the insurance...and duie to competition, they all started to do it...thus the increase in insurance costs.
So now an employee who gets 67% insurance costs covered by the empoloyer for family is actually getting an additional 12K to 15K i8n compensation above and beyond salary. So whereas the salary has gone up annually with cost of living...add in another 12-15K and you will see an increase in compensation that makes a lot more sense.

 

[Old Rocks]

I suspect most new jobs are due to expansion of government because the private sector opportunities are still slim. As usual, the left is touting success without backing it up.

It would be good for Americans if businesses picked up, but we're still seeing "unexpected" increases in unemployment. The claim of manufacturing increasing at the fastest pace in 10 months could mean one job. When you start at zero, it takes little to say there is improvement. I still know many laid off factory workers and more businesses around here have closed in the past 6 months. People aren't going to believe anything coming out of Washington. People will believe what they see themselves.

The steel mill where I work just went back to four shifts, 24/7 for the first time since late 2008. We are selling that steel somewhere.

 

[Jarhead]

Then there's the pure political aspect of economic data. Today, unemployment is improving, manufacturing is up, consumer confidence is getting better, the stock market is higher than even, and gas prices are slightly retreating. There's plenty of time between now and November, but if things keep going this way, people* will credit Obama (rightfully or wrongfully) with improving the economy and he will win.


* Except for fanatical, neo-fascist conservatives who think Obama is a Kenyan Muslim Socialist Communist.

Again without using obama's labor department numbers show us how good the economy is again?

So you are accusing the US department of labor of rigging employment figures to make Obama look better? Seriously?

Do you truly not think that theyuse spin to make things look rosier?
Let me give you an example....

The WH claims...and I will paraphrase....but it is pretty close top the exact quote....

"Under the Obama administration, domestic oil production has grown to the highest levels in history"

Now...this is fact, yes...and the way it is worded, it is attributed to Obama policies....

However.....

Oil prodiuction that the Obama administration has control over is actually DOWN 40%.

This decrease is offset by the dramatic increase in private land drilling that was approved during the Bush administration.

You see...the WH can spin just about anything...and many people believe it.

Are they lying?

No.

Are they allowing us to miscontrue what they say?

Absolutely.

 

[wjmacguffin]

His policy effect economy
Regulations that cost businesses will have an effect on the economy
His energy policy will have an effect on gas prices.

I don't mean presidents have no effect. It's just that there's so much out of his/her control that it's not right to credit/blame presidents for the economy as a whole.

According to a survey by Forbes, businesses say regulations DO NOT impact them negatively. Insurance costs is the number one problem. Again, this is small businesses talking to Forbes, not a government-run survey.

Gas prices are this high mostly due to MidEast instability (i.e. Iran) and speculation. Under Obama, oil use has declined and drilling has increased. Not sure how both of those could drive prices upward.

Gas prices are this high mostly due to MidEast instability

We've heard this for years but when crude was at 148.00 a barrel and gas was over 4.00 gallon cannot explain why crude hasn't gotten to 120.00 a barrel but gas is at and above 4.00 gallon. So try again with that worn out argument

If I understand you correctly, you're asking why, when oil = $140 and gas > $4, that gas eventually = $120 and gas remained at or above $4?

I have no clue, but if I had to guess, I'd say blame lies with the companies that supply gas. Gas prices should be related to oil prices, and if they're not, then the people setting prices are likely to blame. I'd love to hear how you believe this is due to Obama.

 

[Jarhead]

I suspect most new jobs are due to expansion of government because the private sector opportunities are still slim. As usual, the left is touting success without backing it up.

It would be good for Americans if businesses picked up, but we're still seeing "unexpected" increases in unemployment. The claim of manufacturing increasing at the fastest pace in 10 months could mean one job. When you start at zero, it takes little to say there is improvement. I still know many laid off factory workers and more businesses around here have closed in the past 6 months. People aren't going to believe anything coming out of Washington. People will believe what they see themselves.

The steel mill where I work just went back to four shifts, 24/7 for the first time since late 2008. We are selling that steel somewhere.

Sure...I have no doubt...

But....

As is always the case in a long recession...an increase in one firms production is usually the result in a loss of competition due to firms shutting down.

Likely, the overall steel industry is not selling more...just fewer selling it.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Again without using obama's labor department numbers show us how good the economy is again?

So you are accusing the US department of labor of rigging employment figures to make Obama look better? Seriously?

Do you truly not think that theyuse spin to make things look rosier?
Let me give you an example....

The WH claims...and I will paraphrase....but it is pretty close top the exact quote....

"Under the Obama administration, domestic oil production has grown to the highest levels in history"

Now...this is fact, yes...and the way it is worded, it is attributed to Obama policies....

However.....

Oil prodiuction that the Obama adminjistration has control over is actually DOWN 40%.

This decrease is offset by the dramatic increase in private land drilling that was approved during thye Bush administration.

You see...the WH can spin just about anmything...and many people believe it.

Are thgey lying?

No.

Are they allowing us to miscontrue what they say?

Absolutely.

I call it deceptive which is lying.

 

[wjmacguffin]

I suspect most new jobs are due to expansion of government because the private sector opportunities are still slim. As usual, the left is touting success without backing it up.

It would be good for Americans if businesses picked up, but we're still seeing "unexpected" increases in unemployment. The claim of manufacturing increasing at the fastest pace in 10 months could mean one job. When you start at zero, it takes little to say there is improvement. I still know many laid off factory workers and more businesses around here have closed in the past 6 months. People aren't going to believe anything coming out of Washington. People will believe what they see themselves.

The steel mill where I work just went back to four shifts, 24/7 for the first time since late 2008. We are selling that steel somewhere.

Public sector (i.e. government) employment has steadily declined. In fact, public employment has been a drag on the unemployment rate.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Again without using obama's labor department numbers show us how good the economy is again?

So you are accusing the US department of labor of rigging employment figures to make Obama look better? Seriously?

Do you truly not think that theyuse spin to make things look rosier?
Let me give you an example....

The WH claims...and I will paraphrase....but it is pretty close top the exact quote....

"Under the Obama administration, domestic oil production has grown to the highest levels in history"

Now...this is fact, yes...and the way it is worded, it is attributed to Obama policies....

However.....

Oil prodiuction that the Obama adminjistration has control over is actually DOWN 40%.

This decrease is offset by the dramatic increase in private land drilling that was approved during thye Bush administration.

You see...the WH can spin just about anmything...and many people believe it.

Are thgey lying?

No.

Are they allowing us to miscontrue what they say?

Absolutely.

Spin? Of course! It's not right but every politician in each party does that. I have no doubt that the Obama administration spins almost everything that drips out into the news.

But as for outright lying about labor statistics to help Obama get re-elected? That's a stretch. I'd also like to see what alternative data there is. How does someone KNOW it's a lie?

 

[Oldstyle]

Obama has added 4.1 million jobs since 2009.

Here’s what Bush left us with.....

Aug 2008 - 334,000 net JOBS LOST
Sep 2008 - 458,000 net JOBS LOST
Oct 2008 - 554,000 net JOBS LOST
Nov 2008 - 728,000 net JOBS LOST
Dec 2008 - 673,000 net JOBS LOST
Jan 2009 - 779,000 net JOBS LOST

Gee, let's do the math on Barry's job's, Chris. I believe one has to add in the neighborhood of 250,000 jobs each month in order to match the growth of the population? So if you multiply that number times the months that Obama has been in office then you come up with a figure of around ten million jobs to keep pace. So if we subtract 4.1 million from 10 million we get a pretty good idea why our unemployment rate went up under Barry and hasn't really come down yet. Aren't statistics fun!!!

 

[Jarhead]

So you are accusing the US department of labor of rigging employment figures to make Obama look better? Seriously?

Do you truly not think that theyuse spin to make things look rosier?
Let me give you an example....

The WH claims...and I will paraphrase....but it is pretty close top the exact quote....

"Under the Obama administration, domestic oil production has grown to the highest levels in history"

Now...this is fact, yes...and the way it is worded, it is attributed to Obama policies....

However.....

Oil prodiuction that the Obama adminjistration has control over is actually DOWN 40%.

This decrease is offset by the dramatic increase in private land drilling that was approved during thye Bush administration.

You see...the WH can spin just about anmything...and many people believe it.

Are thgey lying?

No.

Are they allowing us to miscontrue what they say?

Absolutely.

Spin? Of course! It's not right but every politician in each party does that. I have no doubt that the Obama administration spins almost everything that drips out into the news.

But as for outright lying about labor statistics to help Obama get re-elected? That's a stretch. I'd also like to see what alternative data there is. How does someone KNOW it's a lie?

I wont use the word lie...and I didnt.
But as I said...are they misleading us ?
Sure.
How do I know?
Becuase numbers the administration have no control over speaks volumes.

Home prices
home foreclosures
numbers of Americans employed
numbners of businesses still in business
number of bankruptcy filings

I rewally dont care what the WH says...if Americans are hurting, the economy is not doing what it needs to do.

What good is a good economy if Americans are actually hurting more?

 

[Jarhead]

Obama has added 4.1 million jobs since 2009.

Here’s what Bush left us with.....

Aug 2008 - 334,000 net JOBS LOST
Sep 2008 - 458,000 net JOBS LOST
Oct 2008 - 554,000 net JOBS LOST
Nov 2008 - 728,000 net JOBS LOST
Dec 2008 - 673,000 net JOBS LOST
Jan 2009 - 779,000 net JOBS LOST

Gee, let's do the math on Barry's job's, Chris. I believe one has to add in the neighborhood of 250,000 jobs each month in order to match the growth of the population? So if you multiply that number times the months that Obama has been in office then you come up with a figure of around ten million jobs to keep pace. So if we subtract 4.1 million from 10 million we get a pretty good idea why our unemployment rate went up under Barry and hasn't really come down yet. Aren't statistics fun!!!

the irony of the numbers Chris touted?
The numbers jumped as soon as Obama won the nomination and started telling everyone we were headed toward the worst economy since the great depression.

Any business person knows that "fear of the near future" has the greatest negative affect on business descision making.

Business owners forecast their spending budget for the following year during late second quarter, early 3rd quarter of the existing year.....exactly when Obama told us all that the sky was falling....

That was the first sign in my eyes that he was not a leader.

A leader does not say the sky is falling.

A leader says..."we will weather this and we need to plan optimistically".

 

[wjmacguffin]

Do you truly not think that theyuse spin to make things look rosier?
Let me give you an example....

The WH claims...and I will paraphrase....but it is pretty close top the exact quote....

"Under the Obama administration, domestic oil production has grown to the highest levels in history"

Now...this is fact, yes...and the way it is worded, it is attributed to Obama policies....

However.....

Oil prodiuction that the Obama adminjistration has control over is actually DOWN 40%.

This decrease is offset by the dramatic increase in private land drilling that was approved during thye Bush administration.

You see...the WH can spin just about anmything...and many people believe it.

Are thgey lying?

No.

Are they allowing us to miscontrue what they say?

Absolutely.

Spin? Of course! It's not right but every politician in each party does that. I have no doubt that the Obama administration spins almost everything that drips out into the news.

But as for outright lying about labor statistics to help Obama get re-elected? That's a stretch. I'd also like to see what alternative data there is. How does someone KNOW it's a lie?

I wont use the word lie...and I didnt.
But as I said...are they misleading us ?
Sure.
How do I know?
Becuase numbers the administration have no control over speaks volumes.

Home prices
home foreclosures
numbers of Americans employed
numbners of businesses still in business
number of bankruptcy filings

I rewally dont care what the WH says...if Americans are hurting, the economy is not doing what it needs to do.

What good is a good economy if Americans are actually hurting more?

Sorry Jarhead, I was referring to the other poster who said the Labor Department lied.

I think the Obama administration is cherry picking economic data, touting those that support him and ignoring those that don't. You're right that home prices/foreclosures are really important and need to be discussed more, nevermind something actually done about it.

However, other economic data does not mean employment statistics are false. I have a job and an underwater home, so I actually fit both data sets.

 

[wjmacguffin]

Obama has added 4.1 million jobs since 2009.

Here’s what Bush left us with.....

Aug 2008 - 334,000 net JOBS LOST
Sep 2008 - 458,000 net JOBS LOST
Oct 2008 - 554,000 net JOBS LOST
Nov 2008 - 728,000 net JOBS LOST
Dec 2008 - 673,000 net JOBS LOST
Jan 2009 - 779,000 net JOBS LOST

Gee, let's do the math on Barry's job's, Chris. I believe one has to add in the neighborhood of 250,000 jobs each month in order to match the growth of the population? So if you multiply that number times the months that Obama has been in office then you come up with a figure of around ten million jobs to keep pace. So if we subtract 4.1 million from 10 million we get a pretty good idea why our unemployment rate went up under Barry and hasn't really come down yet. Aren't statistics fun!!!

the irony of the numbers Chris touted?
The numbers jumped as soon as Obama won the nomination and started telling everyone we were headed toward the worst economy since the great depression.

Any business person knows that "fear of the near future" has the greatest negative affect on business descision making.

Business owners forecast their spending budget for the following year during late second quarter, early 3rd quarter of the existing year.....exactly when Obama told us all that the sky was falling....

That was the first sign in my eyes that he was not a leader.

A leader does not say the sky is falling.

A leader says..."we will weather this and we need to plan optimistically".

When did Obama say the sky was falling? I'm not being antagonistic. I really don't know what you're referring to and I'm curious.

 

[Chris]

God this is fun.

Righties trying to spin good news into bad while the rest of us are making a ton of money.

 

[sealybobo]

This is what you got to do to beat the Republicans. Control the message. Nice thread. Otherwise we gotta talk about where Obama was born, Solyndra, Rev. Wright or if it is appropriate to talk about killing Bin Ladin. Trying to take away a major accomplishment. Belittle it.

Lets not forget that Jimmy Carter tried to save the hostages in Iran and it failed. And the GOP used it against him to win. So fuck off righties.