Morally Bizarre

[koshergrl]

Yup. Apparently he didn't want the docs to think poorly of him for going ahead with treatment he couldn't pay for, so he waited until the state would fund his dead beatedness, thereby making it acceptable and him a stand-up dude.

 

[dblack]

Didn't you ask that exact same question a few pages back?

Probably.
Did I get an answer?

I thought so. But we can circle back around if you like. Maybe with a different approach. Rights, as I conceive of them, aren't grants of power. They're simply a criteria we can use to decide if someone "in the right" or not. And such criteria exists, even if there's no one around to actively protect a given right. So, for example, if we agree that you have a right to free speech, when you express yourself, you have that right. If anyone tries to silence you, they're in the wrong.

 

[dblack]

Yeah, yeah. I don't even wanna go there. That quote describes the power to collect taxes, not the power to conduct wide-ranging social engineering projects in the name of 'general welfare'. The argument's been beat to death, and was thoroughly resolved in Federalist 41. Everything else on the matter is just lawyers angling for more power.

When did Federalist 41 resolve this issue, and what has changed since that time?

Before the Constitution was signed.

Things started to change soon thereafter, as power and ambition took hold.

 

[georgephillip]

Correction..you had a malignant melanoma that was festering for years because you chose not to get it treated.

The melanoma went untreated because I couldn't afford for-profit health insurance.

 

[georgephillip]

Sounds like to me he waited until someone else paid for it.

I waited until I was 65 when Medicare that I paid into covered part of it.

 

[koshergrl]

Correction..you had a malignant melanoma that was festering for years because you chose not to get it treated.

The melanoma went untreated because I couldn't afford for-profit health insurance.

It went untreated because you're an idiot who prefers to force the state to pay for your medical care, as opposed to accepting charity from your doctor.

 

[koshergrl]

Psst..it's still charity. Only now people are pissed off that they had to pay for it.

 

[georgephillip]

It went untreated because you're an idiot who prefers to force the state to pay for your medical care, as opposed to accepting charity from your doctor.

Exactly, Moron.
If you don't count the 45 years I paid into Medicare.
"In the 1960s, Medicare was introduced to rectify the fourth problem (health care for the elderly). The FICA tax was increased in order to pay for this expense."
Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[koshergrl]

That's because I don't give a shit, and I really doubt you paid anything in.

 

[Conservative65]

Sounds like to me he waited until someone else paid for it.

I waited until I was 65 when Medicare that I paid into covered part of it.

You never paid as much into Medicare as you got out of it. You waiting for that purpose proves you're a leech.

 

[georgephillip]

You never paid as much into Medicare as you got out of it. You waiting for that purpose proves you're a leech.

And you never paid enough in premiums to cover the full cost of the $90,000 spinal surgery you mentioned previously; does that make you a parasite or just another simplistic conservative engaged in economic self-destruction?

 

[Conservative65]

You never paid as much into Medicare as you got out of it. You waiting for that purpose proves you're a leech.

And you never paid enough in premiums to cover the full cost of the $90,000 spinal surgery you mentioned previously; does that make you a parasite or just another simplistic conservative engaged in economic self-destruction?

I am fully aware that I hadn't paid that much into it. What you fail to acknolwedge is that when each of us that is part of that group policy signed up, we did so by choice not by government mandate. I could have very easily chosen not to join. With Medicare I don't have the choice. That's the difference.

 

[georgephillip]

I am fully aware that I hadn't paid that much into it. What you fail to acknolwedge is that when each of us that is part of that group policy signed up, we did so by choice not by government mandate. I could have very easily chosen not to join. With Medicare I don't have the choice. That's the difference

Yet, private plans typically have administrative costs of 17 percent versus Medicare's 3%. If you had the choice between Medicare and private insurance, which would you choose?

 

[Conservative65]

I am fully aware that I hadn't paid that much into it. What you fail to acknolwedge is that when each of us that is part of that group policy signed up, we did so by choice not by government mandate. I could have very easily chosen not to join. With Medicare I don't have the choice. That's the difference

Yet, private plans typically have administrative costs of 17 percent versus Medicare's 3%. If you had the choice between Medicare and private insurance, which would you choose?

I prefer you provide yours and I provide mine. I see you divert from what we were discussing about getting more out of something that put in. Your medicare is funded by those of us who don't have a choice but to pay into it. At least with my insurance, those in it are in it because they made the choice to do so knowing how it worked. If you can't see the difference, it's no wonder you waited until someone else was forced to fund it for you instead of being a man and doing when it would have costs you.

 

[georgephillip]

I prefer you provide yours and I provide mine. I see you divert from what we were discussing about getting more out of something that put in. Your medicare is funded by those of us who don't have a choice but to pay into it

Would you support a system where each individual is entitled to a choice between privately or publicly funded medical care?

 

[Conservative65]

I prefer you provide yours and I provide mine. I see you divert from what we were discussing about getting more out of something that put in. Your medicare is funded by those of us who don't have a choice but to pay into it

Would you support a system where each individual is entitled to a choice between privately or publicly funded medical care?

Not if it involves one group being forced to subsidize it for another. No one is entitled to what another person has earned unless the one earning it voluntarily gives it to them. What it seems you support is everyone getting the same thing even if one half of the people are required to fund it for the other half along with their own.

 

[georgephillip]

Not if it involves one group being forced to subsidize it for another. No one is entitled to what another person has earned unless the one earning it voluntarily gives it to them. What it seems you support is everyone getting the same thing even if one half of the people are required to fund it for the other half along with their own.

Every one working in the US pays 1.45% of their earnings into Medicare; which half of the workforce is funding the other?
Who pays for Medicare - Ultimate Guide to Retirement

 

[Conservative65]

Not if it involves one group being forced to subsidize it for another. No one is entitled to what another person has earned unless the one earning it voluntarily gives it to them. What it seems you support is everyone getting the same thing even if one half of the people are required to fund it for the other half along with their own.

Every one working in the US pays 1.45% of their earnings into Medicare; which half of the workforce is funding the other?
Who pays for Medicare - Ultimate Guide to Retirement

Like you said, you waited until you could get Medicare before having a surgery. The 1.45% you paid into didn't come close to covering the total costs. That means someone else was FORCED to offset that cost. With Obamacare, those buying insurance on the exchanges receiving a subsidy to make it cheaper are the ones being funding by those having to pay the taxes that fund the subsidies. It's not hard to understand if you want to understand. What you don't get is that no one is entitled to any portion of what another person has earned including healthcare unless the one doing the giving does so under their own free will. Since Medicare is mandated, that's already gone.

 

[georgephillip]

It's not hard to understand if you want to understand. What you don't get is that no one is entitled to any portion of what another person has earned including healthcare unless the one doing the giving does so under their own free will. Since Medicare is mandated, that's already gone.

By the same reasoning, no one is entitled to an education beyond the level their taxes directly fund. Human beings form governments to collectively provide services they are unable to afford individually. When millions of Americans began leaving the farm and working in major cities during the early decades of the 20th Century, they were told by the arch-conservatives of their time that they were no longer independent because they weren't providing their own food. By freely choosing the live in the US you are agreeing to provide your fair share to support the General Welfare of all Americans.

 

[Conservative65]

It's not hard to understand if you want to understand. What you don't get is that no one is entitled to any portion of what another person has earned including healthcare unless the one doing the giving does so under their own free will. Since Medicare is mandated, that's already gone.

By the same reasoning, no one is entitled to an education beyond the level their taxes directly fund. Human beings form governments to collectively provide services they are unable to afford individually. When millions of Americans began leaving the farm and working in major cities during the early decades of the 20th Century, they were told by the arch-conservatives of their time that they were no longer independent because they weren't providing their own food. By freely choosing the live in the US you are agreeing to provide your fair share to support the General Welfare of all Americans.

That's the typical bullshit argument. Governments were not formed to collectively do that. Those in government chose to do that in order to pander for votes and they got another old asshole like you to believe it. When the poor people start paying their fair share, and nothing isn't a share, talk to me about paying more. You define general welfare on the same level as social welfare and they are not the same. I bet you think the pursuit of happiness equates to guarantee of happiness.

By supporting the concept that one person is entitled to another person's money, it's on you you old bastard to provide them your money. If you're man enough to come and collect what I have on their behalf, come get it. You won't for many reasons.