Misrepresenting Libertarianism

[MaggieMae]

Ballot access laws which force all parties other than the remocrats and depublicans to petition their way onto the ballot.

The R&D duopoly that controls the presidential debates and excludes all other candidates that are on enough ballots to win the Electoral College.

The lamestream media that lets them get away with it.

The list goes on and on.

And so, you are saying the Libertarians don't understand how to play within the rules?

I'm saying the rules are rigged against not only them, but all other comers who operate outside the imposed R&D duopoly and don't have a huge amount of personal wealth to fund their campaign (i.e. Ross Perot).

They're scared to death that what happened in Minnesota with Jesse Ventura could happen to them.

Jesse Ventura hates the system as much as you do. (Although he's also aligned with Alex Jones, so I don't exactly know where that puts him except in the loony bin.)

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Do you support state's having the right to segregate? If yes in some cases, list the cases.

Can you show me anyone who claims the state has a right to segregate?

Everyone on this forum who has ever said a business has the right to serve or not serve anyone they please, for starters.

I have said that, and still do. I also deny that the state has any right to disenfranchise any portion of its population. The job of the government is protect people from itself.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Liberalism is all about social freedom and economic control. Conservatism is all about economic freedom and social control.

Libertarianism, I'll have to admit is in fact "all about freedom", but sometimes at the expense of a functioning government.

On the fourth point of the chart, you have totalitarianism. I think we can all agree, nobody wants that. And no-one is practicing it at the moment either, despite what Glenn Beck tells you.

How can you have social freedom if you cannot use your economic resources the way that is best for you? How can you have economic freedom if you cannot share it with the people you choose to?

I am all about freedom is because in imposition on freedom is bad for everyone.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Looks like we've had a whoooole lotta that there "misrepresentin" thing going on around these here parts, too.

The editors of the New York Times misrepresent libertarianism by way of Rand Paul and his statements about the Civil Rights Act of 1964, saying:

Let’s start with the most obvious canard, which is the proposition that Jim Crow had anything to do with free markets. They were called “Jim Crow Laws“, not “Jim Crow Markets”, the obvious reason for which is that separate accommodations were mandated by state governments, not organically grown in some mythical garden of free association rights. Indeed, the entire reason for the corrupt deal behind the presidential election of 1876 was to throw the South’s support behind a president who would end Reconstruction.

It was government–in this case, the state governments in the South–that imposed Jim Crow, and government that forced private companies to impose the desired restrictions on blacks. If government intervention was required to [abolish] Jim Crow, that was only because governments had imposed it in the first place....

Misrepresenting Libertarianism | Questions and Observations

So what??? Don't you think that if anyone actually gave a shit about Libertarianism even in the least, they would have a produced at least ONE acceptable candidate by now on the National stage?

Ever hear of Barry Goldwater.

 

[Vast LWC]

Ever hear of Barry Goldwater.

And honestly I kind of liked Goldwater in many ways, in the same ways that I kind of like Ron Paul.

I agree with them on a lot of issues, just generally not the economic ones.

 

[Big Fitz]

Maybe people don't vote for libertardians because they want roads, safe working environments, mandatory market transparency, nutritional information on foodstuffs, safe meat [brought to you by the Muckrakers!], traffic laws, and a desegregated society?

Except when they personally have to pay for it. "They" aren't smart enough to understand the concept of hidden costs to industry passed on to them. They just bitch about prices going up because the "rich man" hates them. They don't get that they pay for it in higher taxes, as long as the taxes are on "The Rich".

But every time a gubmint program price tag ends up on their shoulders, like school bonding bills they vote against it 9 times out of 10 unless they have a direct personal gain from it... like if they have children in school who will benefit.

That's the truth of it. The tyranny of the personal pocketbook is real.

 

[Ravi]

Liberalism is all about social freedom and economic control. Conservatism is all about economic freedom and social control.

Libertarianism, I'll have to admit is in fact "all about freedom", but sometimes at the expense of a functioning government.

On the fourth point of the chart, you have totalitarianism. I think we can all agree, nobody wants that. And no-one is practicing it at the moment either, despite what Glenn Beck tells you.

How can you have social freedom if you cannot use your economic resources the way that is best for you? How can you have economic freedom if you cannot share it with the people you choose to?

I am all about freedom is because in imposition on freedom is bad for everyone.

Figure out how to lead your life without violating the civil rights of others...why is that so difficult?

 

[sweetie]

Ever hear of Barry Goldwater.



...if that warmongering republican was 'a libertarian,' i'm no stinking 'libertarian'..

...thoughtful people and republicrats alike, in our current predicament, perhaps the first thing to do is acknowledge and then demand a fix for 'the republicrat election fraud'..

..phony, puny 'debates' among the actual candidates/participants for high public office...with massive spin/brainwashing from the announcers, cheerleaders, etc. apparatchiks galore..

..virtually guaranteeing us a 'choice' between a couple of egomaniacal republicrat idiots who can't honestly explain the origin or nature of even one 'dollar' despite the fact that their cakeholes are frequently working as to illion$..

..the reason i wrote this is because i sense some of you are interested in positive change through 'the political process'..do dream on..

..but imo, we'd get 'a better, more thoughtful, honest, legislature' were we to draw names randomly from "the phone book," etc..

...have a good day!..

 

[Oddball]

Here, have a Prozac.

 

[MaggieMae]

Ever hear of Barry Goldwater.

And honestly I kind of liked Goldwater in many ways, in the same ways that I kind of like Ron Paul.

I agree with them on a lot of issues, just generally not the economic ones.

I liked Goldwater too. He had guts. But he was a Republican, not a Libertarian.

 

[MaggieMae]

Maybe people don't vote for libertardians because they want roads, safe working environments, mandatory market transparency, nutritional information on foodstuffs, safe meat [brought to you by the Muckrakers!], traffic laws, and a desegregated society?

Except when they personally have to pay for it. "They" aren't smart enough to understand the concept of hidden costs to industry passed on to them. They just bitch about prices going up because the "rich man" hates them. They don't get that they pay for it in higher taxes, as long as the taxes are on "The Rich".

But every time a gubmint program price tag ends up on their shoulders, like school bonding bills they vote against it 9 times out of 10 unless they have a direct personal gain from it... like if they have children in school who will benefit.

That's the truth of it. The tyranny of the personal pocketbook is real.

There's another side to that particular example. In Vermont, many people move up from their lofty McMansions in major metropolises just to get away from the hustle and bustle. They come here for the clean air, no-bull rustic atmosphere, green grass and vegetable gardens. They build gigantic homes with mountain or lake views. But it isn't long before they are also demanding better roads and road maintenance, sewer systems instead of septic tanks, extracurricular activities in schools, more cultural centers. All of that requires taxes. It thus reaches the point where the folks who have lived in a small town all their lives are taxed so much they can no longer afford to live there.

 

[MaggieMae]

Ever hear of Barry Goldwater.



...if that warmongering republican was 'a libertarian,' i'm no stinking 'libertarian'..

...thoughtful people and republicrats alike, in our current predicament, perhaps the first thing to do is acknowledge and then demand a fix for 'the republicrat election fraud'..

..phony, puny 'debates' among the actual candidates/participants for high public office...with massive spin/brainwashing from the announcers, cheerleaders, etc. apparatchiks galore..

..virtually guaranteeing us a 'choice' between a couple of egomaniacal republicrat idiots who can't honestly explain the origin or nature of even one 'dollar' despite the fact that their cakeholes are frequently working as to illion$..

..the reason i wrote this is because i sense some of you are interested in positive change through 'the political process'..do dream on..

..but imo, we'd get 'a better, more thoughtful, honest, legislature' were we to draw names randomly from "the phone book," etc..

...have a good day!..

Goldwater called for an escalation of the war against the North Vietnamese and wanted to bomb the Gulf of Tonkin, which cost him the presidency. However, a few short years later, Johnson did just that. Over 58,000 American troops died in Nam. How many could have been saved had the war been stopped before it could escalate?

 

[Big Fitz]

There's another side to that particular example. In Vermont, many people move up from their lofty McMansions in major metropolises just to get away from the hustle and bustle. They come here for the clean air, no-bull rustic atmosphere, green grass and vegetable gardens. They build gigantic homes with mountain or lake views. But it isn't long before they are also demanding better roads and road maintenance, sewer systems instead of septic tanks, extracurricular activities in schools, more cultural centers. All of that requires taxes. It thus reaches the point where the folks who have lived in a small town all their lives are taxed so much they can no longer afford to live there.

Lay you dollars to donuts that those demanding all those fun little perks at the public expense vote Democrat or socialist. The fact that Bernie Sanders is still in congress attests they ain't very conservative there.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Liberalism is all about social freedom and economic control. Conservatism is all about economic freedom and social control.

Libertarianism, I'll have to admit is in fact "all about freedom", but sometimes at the expense of a functioning government.

On the fourth point of the chart, you have totalitarianism. I think we can all agree, nobody wants that. And no-one is practicing it at the moment either, despite what Glenn Beck tells you.

How can you have social freedom if you cannot use your economic resources the way that is best for you? How can you have economic freedom if you cannot share it with the people you choose to?

I am all about freedom is because in imposition on freedom is bad for everyone.

Figure out how to lead your life without violating the civil rights of others...why is that so difficult?

Do my civil rights allow me to bus 14 loads of prtestors to your front lawn because I owe you $90,000,000.00.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Ever hear of Barry Goldwater.

And honestly I kind of liked Goldwater in many ways, in the same ways that I kind of like Ron Paul.

I agree with them on a lot of issues, just generally not the economic ones.

I liked Goldwater too. He had guts. But he was a Republican, not a Libertarian.

So is Rand Paul.

 

[Ravi]

How can you have social freedom if you cannot use your economic resources the way that is best for you? How can you have economic freedom if you cannot share it with the people you choose to?

I am all about freedom is because in imposition on freedom is bad for everyone.

Figure out how to lead your life without violating the civil rights of others...why is that so difficult?

Do my civil rights allow me to bus 14 loads of prtestors to your front lawn because I owe you $90,000,000.00.

Front lawn, no. Street, probably.

 

[MaggieMae]

There's another side to that particular example. In Vermont, many people move up from their lofty McMansions in major metropolises just to get away from the hustle and bustle. They come here for the clean air, no-bull rustic atmosphere, green grass and vegetable gardens. They build gigantic homes with mountain or lake views. But it isn't long before they are also demanding better roads and road maintenance, sewer systems instead of septic tanks, extracurricular activities in schools, more cultural centers. All of that requires taxes. It thus reaches the point where the folks who have lived in a small town all their lives are taxed so much they can no longer afford to live there.

Lay you dollars to donuts that those demanding all those fun little perks at the public expense vote Democrat or socialist. The fact that Bernie Sanders is still in congress attests they ain't very conservative there.

I don't really know. I've never broken it down. Sanders, by the way, partnering with Ron Paul successfully pushed through an amendment to financial reform calling for an audit of the federal reserve. Something the conservatives have wanted for decades. It's one of the reasons Sanders is popular: He does what he thinks is right (er, correct). He is absolutely beloved by senior citizens because he has been a consistent champion for their wellbeing. Sanders has always fought hard to keep small farming operations from going under in the face of competitive pricing from mega agricultural corporations. Yup, Vermonters love him.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

There's another side to that particular example. In Vermont, many people move up from their lofty McMansions in major metropolises just to get away from the hustle and bustle. They come here for the clean air, no-bull rustic atmosphere, green grass and vegetable gardens. They build gigantic homes with mountain or lake views. But it isn't long before they are also demanding better roads and road maintenance, sewer systems instead of septic tanks, extracurricular activities in schools, more cultural centers. All of that requires taxes. It thus reaches the point where the folks who have lived in a small town all their lives are taxed so much they can no longer afford to live there.

Lay you dollars to donuts that those demanding all those fun little perks at the public expense vote Democrat or socialist. The fact that Bernie Sanders is still in congress attests they ain't very conservative there.

I don't really know. I've never broken it down. Sanders, by the way, partnering with Ron Paul successfully pushed through an amendment to financial reform calling for an audit of the federal reserve. Something the conservatives have wanted for decades. It's one of the reasons Sanders is popular: He does what he thinks is right (er, correct). He is absolutely beloved by senior citizens because he has been a consistent champion for their wellbeing. Sanders has always fought hard to keep small farming operations from going under in the face of competitive pricing from mega agricultural corporations. Yup, Vermonters love him.

Conservatives have wanted a thorough audit of the Fed for decades? I don't think so. And that amendment was extremely watered down in the Senate version of the bill.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Its a sad commentary that I've come to expect this type of lie from the NYTimes and other media outlets.

Its a sadder commentary that a lot of people fall for it hook, line, and sinker.

 

[Paulie]

They forgot to include the word Federal.

boo hoo

Fascinating rebuttal. You clearly pwned the duder on this one.

His C&P is a non sequitur.

Not to mention that Rand Paul, and most libertarians, are probably supportive of a state's right to enact Jim Crow laws.

Uhhh...

No Rav.

You're 'probably' wrong.

Any libertarian would be much happier repealing any particular law, than enacting one.

You REALLY don't understand libertarianism.

But it's definitely noted that you apparently love to pull the race card to try and make a point.