Minimum Wage

[xotoxi]

Right! Oregon's minimum wage is $8.50 more or less, and has a 10.6% unemployment rate.

Why would anyone assume that the minimum wage has any correlation with the unemployment rate?

Why would anyone assume the price of something will influence the supply and demand for that thing?
Is that what you are asking? Really?

Supply and demand?

Are you implying that the supply of jobs would increase just because they pay less?

Explain that to me.

 

[The Rabbi]

Why would anyone assume that the minimum wage has any correlation with the unemployment rate?

Why would anyone assume the price of something will influence the supply and demand for that thing?
Is that what you are asking? Really?

Supply and demand?

Are you implying that the supply of jobs would increase just because they pay less?

Explain that to me.

Yes, That is exactly what I am saying.
Let me give a concrete example. I have an ammunition company. One of the things we do is reload spent brass casings. Since these are usually picked up at ranges and thrown into a big bucket, the brass needs to be sorted by caliber. It is dull tedious work. If I could hire someone at 2.50 an hour to do, it would be worthwhile. At $8/hr it isnt. That is one job that doesn't exist because the min wage essentially outlaws it. Now, it might be that no one will work for 2.50/hr and the best I can get will be someone who would work for $8, in which case the job still won't materialize. But I would rather that be determined by market forces vs the heavy hand of the gov't.

 

[Greenbeard]

Right! Oregon's minimum wage is $8.50 more or less, and has a 10.6% unemployment rate.

And Vermont's minimum wage is $8.06 (only six states have higher minimum wages), yet its unemployment rate is 6% (only 4 states have lower unemployment rates).

Should I draw a causal conclusion from that state example?

 

[AllieBaba]

If you can't afford to pay the minimum wage, then you shouldn't be in business in the first place. You are not qualified to be an employer.

There is NO INALEINABLE RIGHT TO BUSINESS!

The minimum wage should be indexed against the cost of living in the area.

So people shouldn't have jobs. Is that what you are saying?

It certainly sounded like that.

Or rather, everybody should be equally poor.

 

[AllieBaba]

Right! Oregon's minimum wage is $8.50 more or less, and has a 10.6% unemployment rate.

And Vermont's minimum wage is $8.06 (only six states have higher minimum wages), yet its unemployment rate is 6% (only 4 states have lower unemployment rates).

Should I draw a causal conclusion from that state example?

We're at $8.40 in Oregon.

Our unemployment rate is among the highest in the US I do believe.

What do people do in Vermont, btw?

 

[Richard-H]

If you can't afford to pay the minimum wage, then you shouldn't be in business in the first place. You are not qualified to be an employer.

There is NO INALEINABLE RIGHT TO BUSINESS!

The minimum wage should be indexed against the cost of living in the area.

So people shouldn't have jobs. Is that what you are saying?

That's exactly what I'm saying. Working for minimum wage or less is just about the equivalent of not having a job. Except when you don't have a job, you don't spend 40 hours a week being somebody else's slave. You sure can't live on it.

I've worked in a NYC factory with Teamsters (who made more than minimum wage) and who had to live 2 or 3 families in a 1 bedroom apartment. Everyone of them would have loved to get the hell out of there and live off the governement dole if they could.

And it isn't because they were lazy - they worked their butts off - they just resented being defacto slaves. (Note - I was a company employee and made subatantially more than the union workers)

Meanwhile the fatcat that owned the business paid more per year for his country club membership than he paid any 4 workers combined. And he only showed up at work once in a blue moon.

Here's how it works:

Either the wealthy (who DO NOT earned their money - ever), invest in businesses and pay descent living wages to workers OR the workers go on the government dole out, vote for leftist politicians and tax the daylights out of the wealthy.

In fact, if employers would just simply pay workers 90% of their productive value, instead of paying them the minimum that they can possibly get away with, we'd have a very well-balanced economy with reasonable profit for investors.

It really up the the investors.

That's why we should raise the minimum wage and index it against the cost of living in the area. If you don't want a welfare state, all you have to do is pay the workers fairly instead of taking advantage of the economically disadvantaged.

 

[Richard-H]

As a Born Again Liberal, I can say this about that. We need the minimum wage to protect the oppressed American Worker. Our laborers need to Unite in global action to set the minimum wage to $20 or more an hour.

BTW - You STINK at sarcasm.

 

[hortysir]

Minimum wage increase was just one nail in the coffin of small businesses.

Now we have dim-bulbs working towards a maximum wage.

Maybe, one day, we'll all meet in the middle......

 

[code1211]

If you can't afford to pay the minimum wage, then you shouldn't be in business in the first place. You are not qualified to be an employer.

There is NO INALEINABLE RIGHT TO BUSINESS!

The minimum wage should be indexed against the cost of living in the area.

Sounds like the local chair of the Communist party has weighed in.

Anybody, whether they own a business or not has to accomplish things during the day. It might only be using the toilet, but it must be done. If this can be accomplished alone, it will be. if it requires assistance to be completed, then assistance will be found. If it must be hired, then it will be hired.

Now, what if i need to have a document copied? If this is the only document that i have ever needed to have copied, I will stop at my local Office Depot and pay a quarter or whatever to use their equipment.

What if I have needed a copy every 10 minutes every day for the last year. Maybe i'll think about purchasing a copier. If it's cheaper to continue to go to kinkos or wherever, I'll continue to do that unless the convenience is worth something to me.

That's the same thought process that goes into hiring a new employee. Cost, convenience and future needs reviewed in a cost benefit study.

Hiring an employee involves numerous considerations with cost and the hourly wage is one. The Big 0's boys just keep stacking more consideratins onto the top of the minimum wage to make all employers hesitant to hire.

How many uncertainties and added costs does it require to stop hiring altogether?

Do we need a hi-cost study or just a review of the Big 0's policies?

 

[Mr Natural]

Why would anyone assume the price of something will influence the supply and demand for that thing?
Is that what you are asking? Really?

Supply and demand?

Are you implying that the supply of jobs would increase just because they pay less?

Explain that to me.

Yes, That is exactly what I am saying.
Let me give a concrete example. I have an ammunition company. One of the things we do is reload spent brass casings. Since these are usually picked up at ranges and thrown into a big bucket, the brass needs to be sorted by caliber. It is dull tedious work. If I could hire someone at 2.50 an hour to do, it would be worthwhile. At $8/hr it isnt. That is one job that doesn't exist because the min wage essentially outlaws it. Now, it might be that no one will work for 2.50/hr and the best I can get will be someone who would work for $8, in which case the job still won't materialize. But I would rather that be determined by market forces vs the heavy hand of the gov't.

Let me get this straight. You need to sort the spent casings by caliber yet you can't afford to hire someone to do it (because of minimum wage). So what do you do, just pick them up and leave them in a big pile somwhere? What's the point of that? Or do you do the sorting yourself, thus taking away time you could be devoting to other more productive tasks? Or do you just hire illegals like everyone else?

 

[xotoxi]

Why would anyone assume the price of something will influence the supply and demand for that thing?
Is that what you are asking? Really?

Supply and demand?

Are you implying that the supply of jobs would increase just because they pay less?

Explain that to me.

Yes, That is exactly what I am saying.
Let me give a concrete example. I have an ammunition company. One of the things we do is reload spent brass casings. Since these are usually picked up at ranges and thrown into a big bucket, the brass needs to be sorted by caliber. It is dull tedious work. If I could hire someone at 2.50 an hour to do, it would be worthwhile. At $8/hr it isnt. That is one job that doesn't exist because the min wage essentially outlaws it. Now, it might be that no one will work for 2.50/hr and the best I can get will be someone who would work for $8, in which case the job still won't materialize. But I would rather that be determined by market forces vs the heavy hand of the gov't.

So you could hire 3 people to do that job and they would be able to do it 3 times more efficiently and 3 times the volume of one person.

Therefore, 3 people would be "employed".

However, do you consider making $100 per week EMPLOYED?

 

[The Rabbi]

Supply and demand?

Are you implying that the supply of jobs would increase just because they pay less?

Explain that to me.

Yes, That is exactly what I am saying.
Let me give a concrete example. I have an ammunition company. One of the things we do is reload spent brass casings. Since these are usually picked up at ranges and thrown into a big bucket, the brass needs to be sorted by caliber. It is dull tedious work. If I could hire someone at 2.50 an hour to do, it would be worthwhile. At $8/hr it isnt. That is one job that doesn't exist because the min wage essentially outlaws it. Now, it might be that no one will work for 2.50/hr and the best I can get will be someone who would work for $8, in which case the job still won't materialize. But I would rather that be determined by market forces vs the heavy hand of the gov't.

So you could hire 3 people to do that job and they would be able to do it 3 times more efficiently and 3 times the volume of one person.

Therefore, 3 people would be "employed".

However, do you consider making $100 per week EMPLOYED?

Why would three people be more efficient than one person? They would get it done in faster time of course but I suspect the unit cost would be higher. In any case the cost to do so would negate any benefit.

 

[The Rabbi]

Supply and demand?

Are you implying that the supply of jobs would increase just because they pay less?

Explain that to me.

Yes, That is exactly what I am saying.
Let me give a concrete example. I have an ammunition company. One of the things we do is reload spent brass casings. Since these are usually picked up at ranges and thrown into a big bucket, the brass needs to be sorted by caliber. It is dull tedious work. If I could hire someone at 2.50 an hour to do, it would be worthwhile. At $8/hr it isnt. That is one job that doesn't exist because the min wage essentially outlaws it. Now, it might be that no one will work for 2.50/hr and the best I can get will be someone who would work for $8, in which case the job still won't materialize. But I would rather that be determined by market forces vs the heavy hand of the gov't.

Let me get this straight. You need to sort the spent casings by caliber yet you can't afford to hire someone to do it (because of minimum wage). So what do you do, just pick them up and leave them in a big pile somwhere? What's the point of that? Or do you do the sorting yourself, thus taking away time you could be devoting to other more productive tasks? Or do you just hire illegals like everyone else?

I buy it pre-sorted from people who pick up the brass for free and sort it themselves. Their time I suppose isn't worth much and they enjoy doing it. It is also, I suspect, under the table income so not subject to taxation.
We also load other things where we use new brass, so sorting is obviously not an issue.

 

[GHook93]

Minimum wage increase was just one nail in the coffin of small businesses.

Now we have dim-bulbs working towards a maximum wage.

Maybe, one day, we'll all meet in the middle......

Let me get this straight, manufucturing business in China pay now (because of their growing success and workers as a whole demanding more), $0.88-$1.00 an hour. Mexican workers make the same, but you still have Guatamalian, Haitian and other 3rd world shitholes that get by paying pennies a hour/day to their workers.

Manufacturing jobs in America all pay above the minimum wage, in fact they get to $15-35 an hour! So how was raising the minimum wage a nail in the coffin.

Who did minimum wage effect? Restaurants and service industry! The industry that has primarily NOT and CAN NOT go over seas.

What we need is to reduce taxes, spending and costs to our businesses (through employer health insurance and overbearing regulation costs), then they will come and stay!!!

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm of the mind that it doesn't matter what minimum wage is.

The way I see it is the job market is like a ladder not a bed. I have worked for a starting pay of as little as 2.50 an hour at a supermarket. In less than 6 months, I was running the dairy dept and nearly doubled my wage.

Entry level is named that because it's meant to be a first step, not a life long career. really if a person doesn't have the ambition or pride to want to move up at a job, should a business owner be forced to pay him a minimum wage?

 

[The Rabbi]

I'm of the mind that it doesn't matter what minimum wage is.

The way I see it is the job market is like a ladder not a bed. I have worked for a starting pay of as little as 2.50 an hour at a supermarket. In less than 6 months, I was running the dairy dept and nearly doubled my wage.

Entry level is named that because it's meant to be a first step, not a life long career. really if a person doesn't have the ambition or pride to want to move up at a job, should a business owner be forced to pay him a minimum wage?

Your first sentence seems to contradict the rest of it, which I agree with.
ENtry level is there to help a person start out and develop marketable job skills, like being able to show up on time sober and ready to work. You would think that's easy but an amazing number of people cannot do that.

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm of the mind that it doesn't matter what minimum wage is.

The way I see it is the job market is like a ladder not a bed. I have worked for a starting pay of as little as 2.50 an hour at a supermarket. In less than 6 months, I was running the dairy dept and nearly doubled my wage.

Entry level is named that because it's meant to be a first step, not a life long career. really if a person doesn't have the ambition or pride to want to move up at a job, should a business owner be forced to pay him a minimum wage?

Your first sentence seems to contradict the rest of it, which I agree with.
ENtry level is there to help a person start out and develop marketable job skills, like being able to show up on time sober and ready to work. You would think that's easy but an amazing number of people cannot do that.

Yes, I should have worded that better.

I am of the mind there should be no mandated minimum wage

 

[The Rabbi]

I'm of the mind that it doesn't matter what minimum wage is.

The way I see it is the job market is like a ladder not a bed. I have worked for a starting pay of as little as 2.50 an hour at a supermarket. In less than 6 months, I was running the dairy dept and nearly doubled my wage.

Entry level is named that because it's meant to be a first step, not a life long career. really if a person doesn't have the ambition or pride to want to move up at a job, should a business owner be forced to pay him a minimum wage?

Your first sentence seems to contradict the rest of it, which I agree with.
ENtry level is there to help a person start out and develop marketable job skills, like being able to show up on time sober and ready to work. You would think that's easy but an amazing number of people cannot do that.

Yes, I should have worded that better.

I am of the mind there should be no mandated minimum wage

Thanks. Yes, I agree totally. Min wage only hurts those most needing a job.

 

[zzzz]

(8) Consumers Should (and we are starting to)SEEK OUT AND BUY AMERICAN more - I aways look were things are made from. I specifically buy my jeans from Levi. Check clothes you can find alot made right here in the states. I drive my wife nutz, because I always buy Little Tike toys for all the birthday parties my kids go to - Outdoor Play Toys. Kids, Childrens & Baby Toys - Little Tikes - EVERYONE SHOULD PURCHASE A LOT OF THE HIGH QUALITY LITTLE TIKES TOYS!!! We should all support this American company!

And I go to sites like this to buy American Made Toys - Toys Made In America -- Extensive List of American Toy Companies - surprising the prices are better than Toys-r-us and non-surprisingly the quality is better. Buy American online, get better prices and hire quality.

Sure we need to support the economy but if you are making minimum wage, where are you going to buy clothes? China-mart or Levis at another American store? It comes down to getting the best bargain for most Americans and that is the capitalist way. A more important trend in the workforce is the proliferation of temporary work services. Companies are turning more and more to these temp services to employ citizens thereby avoiding unemployment taxes, workers insurance and they acquire the flexibility to hire and fire at will. They can hire you for a few hours and then let you go. If the trend continues most of the general laborer jobs in the US will be permanent temp jobs. In addition to the temp jobs companies are eliminating insurance to full time employees. So what are you getting if your get $7.25 an hour? No insurance and increasingly no steady job.

 

[zzzz]

And what world do you live in? Factories are paying temp workers normally $8.00 to $9.00an hour to work in here in the Midwest. And that is increasingly becoming their workforce. No insurance, no unemployment benefits!