Military retirees face cuts

[VaYank5150]

Me thinks you're the one who comes across as a pussy. But, that's just me. I am sure others agree.

You're the pussy who can't back up his posts when he's CLEARLY been shown wrong. Because if you could I'm certain you'd be more than happy to show me where I was wrong.

But alas....you cannot.

.

I could care less if you're wrong or not.

You're an idiot.

This much we know is accurate.

Huh?

 

[DaGoose]

You're the pussy who can't back up his posts when he's CLEARLY been shown wrong. Because if you could I'm certain you'd be more than happy to show me where I was wrong.

But alas....you cannot.

.

I could care less if you're wrong or not.

You're an idiot.

This much we know is accurate.

Huh?

He can't back up his arguments, hold his own in a debate or admit when he's wrong. Yet he calls ME an idiot.

What a fucking loser.....

.

 

[SFC Ollie]

There is a lot of stupidity, misinformation, intelligence and good information in this thread.

Too bad so many can't tell the difference.

When I first enlisted we were told that if we served for 20 years that we would receive free health and dental care for life. That was taken away from us in 1995. After I retired. That was the first thing to really be taken away. Suddenly we were paying for healthcare and we had no dental coverage at all. Unless you lived near a Military dental facility then you could get an appointment if they could squeeze you in. No promises......

What else no one mentioned is that the co-pays for military prescriptions will go up on 1 October. So it has already started. Also I remind you that there has been no inflation for the past 2 years, so no cost of living raises..... How many of you believe that there was no inflation in 2 years?

Anyway, the military is unique, those who never served have no clue, those who claim it was easy were skaters and the ones who I had little use for. I thank them for their service but please do not reenlist.

And anyone who thinks that the military hasn't earned every dime are idiots.

I've only negged 2 people in this thread so far, anyone else want to get stupid?

 

[WorldWatcher]

These rules are known by any service member who CHOOSES to enlist, correct? All part of that contract Warrior102 holds so near and dear, yes?

Yes, didn't say it wasn't. What I was pointing out is that the functioning of the military is not the same as civilians.

Correct?


>>>>

Correct. But why is this a point of contention? Anyone who chooses the military as their career path knows these things up front and can opt out then, if he or she does not agree with them. I may not like the wage I am paid in the private sector, but I choose to stay here. I agree that there is little to no chance of going to jail for not showing up for work one day, but again, we all know the rules prior to making our choices.

The point of contention is the implication (not necessarily a direct statement, but the implecation) that military member can just choose to not be in the military. They can't they can choose not to join, they can choose to leave after their contracted period, but they can't decide just to quit.

The main thrust of the thread however appears to be changing the terms of compensation for service ALREADY rendered. i.e. changing the terms of the contract retroactively, which is what I (and others have disagreed with).

If Congress decides to change the terms for retirement going forward, that is their choice however the terms of those changes need to be measured against impacts on future force structure, initial enlistment/commissioning goals, and retention targets for enlisted and officer personnel. Congress could eliminate the whole retirement system all together and keep the current pay structure for current and future personnel. Good luck with attracting and keeping career personnel through who makeup the back-bone of an all volunteer force. If they tried something like that it would decimate the current force structure and if the President and Congress still wanted to use the military around the world the likelihood is the reinstatement of a draft - I'm sure that would go over well.


The fundamental question is does the President and Congress (and the American people) want a military that can perform missions A, B, C, and D. If so, how do you attract and keep people so that you can train them to perform missions A, B, C, and D in a modern, minimal collateral damage, and technology advanced war zone?


If some think that we are going to attract 20-year career personnel by telling them that they get nothing when they enter the civilian job market but thanks for your service, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, just be thankful for the paychecks you received - ain't going to happen. The military will not be able to attract the best and the brightest because they will see no end came for them and their families and will stay in the civilian world with the rest of their cohorts.


>>>>

 

[Warrior102]

There is a lot of stupidity, misinformation, intelligence and good information in this thread.

Too bad so many can't tell the difference.

When I first enlisted we were told that if we served for 20 years that we would receive free health and dental care for life. That was taken away from us in 1995. After I retired. That was the first thing to really be taken away. Suddenly we were paying for healthcare and we had no dental coverage at all. Unless you lived near a Military dental facility then you could get an appointment if they could squeeze you in. No promises......

What else no one mentioned is that the co-pays for military prescriptions will go up on 1 October. So it has already started. Also I remind you that there has been no inflation for the past 2 years, so no cost of living raises..... How many of you believe that there was no inflation in 2 years?

Anyway, the military is unique, those who never served have no clue, those who claim it was easy were skaters and the ones who I had little use for. I thank them for their service but please do not reenlist.

And anyone who thinks that the military hasn't earned every dime are idiots.

I've only negged 2 people in this thread so far, anyone else want to get stupid?

I especially love these idiots who never served ONE DAY in the military who think they understand

(1) The military
(2) Our benefits

They ought to stick to what they know best -
(1) Avoiding military service
(2) Collecting foodstamps

 

[freedombecki]

Why do you appear to be crying about all of the hardships of your CHOSEN career path? There was another poster in this thread that stated all military personnel are Patirots and some of the best people on earth. Yet, here you are bitching about life in the military. Wasn't your Patriotism enough?

Are you really trying to make yourself and the whole Democrat Party look bad?

Because no one here has yet outdone you, you've even made a little medical science with cotton mop strands where your brain oughtta be.

Since I am not a Democrat, you should really use a smaller brush when talking out of your ass. As far as making myself look bad? Just as soon as someone explains why government run military pensions and healthcare plans should not be cut with the same razor as MediCare and Social Security, you can stop looking hypocritical.

You're not a Democrat, oh. You just advertise Obama's mush all over the place because ....

And you will never see my ahem body parts because I am consistent with my early training to dress modestly, always have.

The government should run military pensions and healthcare that should be improved because the men who've stood in the line of fire so their and others' children won't have to deserve it.

You really do say more than you think. The only thing apparently more insulting than that is your mean tone toward our nation's troops. Maybe you're not what you've made yourself appear to be.

 

[old navy]

One problem with implementing the proposed retirement system is that the career enlisted force (which makes the US military superior and unique among the rest of the world's militaries) will be decimated. The incentive to stay for 20, gain technical and leadership expertise, and be the backbone of their service, will disapear. If the US wants military superiority, career military personnel must be taken care of. Those on the left of course would love to hollow out the military and give the saved money to their favorite social program, so screwing the American fighting man, and woman, is not a problem.

 

[Zona]

Why would it be shocking that the Obama administration would be targeting this rather than cutting waste?

Obama administration?

Bush cut taxes for the rich and now there is no money for military pensions.

All those military folks who voted for Bush cut their own throats.

You can spell this out over and over and they wont get it. They will never understand this simple fact.

Tax cuts for the rich hurts us. But since Obama is saying this, its wrong. It will always be wrong to them.

 

[freedombecki]

There is a lot of stupidity, misinformation, intelligence and good information in this thread.

Too bad so many can't tell the difference.

When I first enlisted we were told that if we served for 20 years that we would receive free health and dental care for life. That was taken away from us in 1995. After I retired. That was the first thing to really be taken away. Suddenly we were paying for healthcare and we had no dental coverage at all. Unless you lived near a Military dental facility then you could get an appointment if they could squeeze you in. No promises......

What else no one mentioned is that the co-pays for military prescriptions will go up on 1 October. So it has already started. Also I remind you that there has been no inflation for the past 2 years, so no cost of living raises..... How many of you believe that there was no inflation in 2 years?

Anyway, the military is unique, those who never served have no clue, those who claim it was easy were skaters and the ones who I had little use for. I thank them for their service but please do not reenlist.

And anyone who thinks that the military hasn't earned every dime are idiots.

I've only negged 2 people in this thread so far, anyone else want to get stupid?

<you must spread some reputation around before giving more to SFC Ollie again>
Thanks, SFC Ollie.

 

[Zona]

One problem with implementing the proposed retirement system is that the career enlisted force (which makes the US military superior and unique among the rest of the world's militaries) will be decimated. The incentive to stay for 20, gain technical and leadership expertise, and be the backbone of their service, will disapear. If the US wants military superiority, career military personnel must be taken care of. Those on the left of course would love to hollow out the military and give the saved money to their favorite social program, so screwing the American fighting man, and woman, is not a problem.

So old navy...if the choice were cutting military benifits or cutting tax cuts to the rich, which would you choose?

Remember this when you are being a hack and screaming at Obama when he is fucking trying to help us vets.

 

[Warrior102]

One problem with implementing the proposed retirement system is that the career enlisted force (which makes the US military superior and unique among the rest of the world's militaries) will be decimated. The incentive to stay for 20, gain technical and leadership expertise, and be the backbone of their service, will disapear. If the US wants military superiority, career military personnel must be taken care of. Those on the left of course would love to hollow out the military and give the saved money to their favorite social program, so screwing the American fighting man, and woman, is not a problem.

I agree. Retirement was an incentive for me - just as it was for you.
Take that away, why should these kids even enlist? When that becomes the case, the draft will be reinstated and you'll have people in the military of the quality of Liberal posters in this thread.

Can you imagine those kooks walking around with weapons ?

Pretty fucking scarey.

 

[High_Gravity]

One problem with implementing the proposed retirement system is that the career enlisted force (which makes the US military superior and unique among the rest of the world's militaries) will be decimated. The incentive to stay for 20, gain technical and leadership expertise, and be the backbone of their service, will disapear. If the US wants military superiority, career military personnel must be taken care of. Those on the left of course would love to hollow out the military and give the saved money to their favorite social program, so screwing the American fighting man, and woman, is not a problem.

I agree 100%, you got to give people an incentive to want to stay in, hell its hard enough now as it is with all these wars going on and multiple deployments.

 

[VaYank5150]

There is a lot of stupidity, misinformation, intelligence and good information in this thread.

Too bad so many can't tell the difference.

When I first enlisted we were told that if we served for 20 years that we would receive free health and dental care for life. That was taken away from us in 1995. After I retired. That was the first thing to really be taken away. Suddenly we were paying for healthcare and we had no dental coverage at all. Unless you lived near a Military dental facility then you could get an appointment if they could squeeze you in. No promises......

What else no one mentioned is that the co-pays for military prescriptions will go up on 1 October. So it has already started. Also I remind you that there has been no inflation for the past 2 years, so no cost of living raises..... How many of you believe that there was no inflation in 2 years?

Anyway, the military is unique, those who never served have no clue, those who claim it was easy were skaters and the ones who I had little use for. I thank them for their service but please do not reenlist.

And anyone who thinks that the military hasn't earned every dime are idiots.

I've only negged 2 people in this thread so far, anyone else want to get stupid?

The honesty is in the details. I, by the way, am one of the fortunate ones who SFC Ollie has chosen to neg rep, so I will continue to be stupid....

No cost of living increases for the past two years? Do you want a towel to cry in? In case you hadn't noticed, the unemployment rate is still currently standing at about 9%, the GOP is doing everything in it's power to limit worker's rights when it comes to collective bargaining, and oh by the way, MOST companies have either CUT pay and/or benefits or frozen them in place, for the same two year period you are crying about.

Now, just so everyone understands, please elaborate on what your co-pays are so we can ALL compare them to what our private sector co-pays are. Since my parents have "Tri-Care for Life", I already know, but I would encourage you to share for the group.

Secondly, who the hell doesn't live near a military facility with a dental office? You want to bitch about them "squeezing you in"? Are you stupid? Perhaps you haven't seen how "well" the private sector dental and doctor facilities work? There a MILLIONS of Americans with NO dental coverage, and you want to BITCH about having to get squeezed in to get your free dental visits? REALLY????

 

[High_Gravity]

One problem with implementing the proposed retirement system is that the career enlisted force (which makes the US military superior and unique among the rest of the world's militaries) will be decimated. The incentive to stay for 20, gain technical and leadership expertise, and be the backbone of their service, will disapear. If the US wants military superiority, career military personnel must be taken care of. Those on the left of course would love to hollow out the military and give the saved money to their favorite social program, so screwing the American fighting man, and woman, is not a problem.

I agree. Retirement was an incentive for me - just as it was for you.
Take that away, why should these kids even enlist? When that becomes the case, the draft will be reinstated and you'll have people in the military of the quality of Liberal posters in this thread.

Can you imagine those kooks walking around with weapons ?

Pretty fucking scarey.

Retirement was an incentive for alot of people, once you hit the 10 year mark you start thinking well I am half way there, but if you take retirement away I don't see why anyone would even enlist.

 

[freedombecki]

That's the bottom line - it's a promise when you enlist. That's why I stayed for 20+ years - and endured shitty pay, shitty living conditions, shitty duty stations, shitty hours, shitty deployments, shitty assignments. Hands the fuck off our benefits - you Goddamned politicians. Give yourselves a paycut. You're way the fuck overpaid as it is.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA! Look, another Tea Party member! Hands off MY government run health insurance and pension plan!!!!

I have paid into Social Security since age 16. Now, the GOP wants to eliminate it altogether. How is this any different? When I began to pay into it, was a similar promise not made that I would one day be able to draw from it?

You are severely misinformed by the master misinformers of the leftist liberal media.
If you don't know the difference between the life-and-death military ways and civil service, yo mamma didn't teach you to wash behind your ears.

 

[Warrior102]

There is a lot of stupidity, misinformation, intelligence and good information in this thread.

Too bad so many can't tell the difference.

When I first enlisted we were told that if we served for 20 years that we would receive free health and dental care for life. That was taken away from us in 1995. After I retired. That was the first thing to really be taken away. Suddenly we were paying for healthcare and we had no dental coverage at all. Unless you lived near a Military dental facility then you could get an appointment if they could squeeze you in. No promises......

What else no one mentioned is that the co-pays for military prescriptions will go up on 1 October. So it has already started. Also I remind you that there has been no inflation for the past 2 years, so no cost of living raises..... How many of you believe that there was no inflation in 2 years?

Anyway, the military is unique, those who never served have no clue, those who claim it was easy were skaters and the ones who I had little use for. I thank them for their service but please do not reenlist.

And anyone who thinks that the military hasn't earned every dime are idiots.

I've only negged 2 people in this thread so far, anyone else want to get stupid?

The honesty is in the details. I, by the way, am one of the fortunate ones who SFC Ollie has chosen to neg rep, so I will continue to be stupid....No cost of living increases for the past two years? Do you want a towel to cry in? Un case you hadn't noticed, the unemployment rate is still currently standing at about 9%, the GOP is doing everything in it's power to limit worker's rights when it comes to collective bargaining, and oh by the way, MOST companies have either CUT pay and/or benefits or frozen them in place, for the same two year period you are crying about.

Now, just so everyone understands, please elaborate on what your co-pays are so we can ALL compare them to what our private sector co-pays are. Since my parents have "Tri-Care for Life", I already know, but I would encourage you to share for the group.

Secondly, who the hell doesn't live near a military facility with a dental office? You want to bitch about them "squeezing you in"? Are you stupid? Perhaps you haven't seen how "well" the private sector dental and doctor facilities work? There a MILLIONS of Americans with NO dental coverage, and you want to BITCH about having to get squeezed in to get your free dental visits? REALLY????

Continue ? When did you stop ?

 

[High_Gravity]

As are the military. It's called an enlistment period for a reason....

Timing is important to the consideration.


In my civilian job I can choose, at any time, to not show up for work, common courtesy says I give notice, call my boss, etc. but it is not required. Nothing happens (Oh I might not get a good reference, but it is not illegal.)

On the other hand a military members who does that are subject to a felony conviction under the United States Code (USC Title 10 Chapter 47, Uniform Code of Military Justice) for Mutiny (Article 94) and if committed during a time of war Article 85 Desertion. They can then spend a term in prison, life in prison, or be subject to the Death Penalty. What a military member can do is choose to leave the service at the end of their contract period but even then they can be retained on active duty involuntarily under "Stop Loss" provisions of the USC.



Just a little bit different between the civilian world and the military world.

>>>>

My son-in-law who serves in the Air Force can call in sick, gets vacation days, housing help and good pay.

HEY!! I'm not complaining. Heck, my daughter gets to go to college with a TON of help from the federal government because her husband is serving in the military. (She's never served a day.)

Thanks much to all of you who are helping pay for my daughter to attend college!!

.

Your son in law is lucky to work in a job where the supervisors allow that, most people don't really have that anymore. Most of the time in the Military if you are sick you have to report to sick call and thats an all day affair, might as well just go to work.

 

[freedombecki]

Umm I think the republican controlled house will have to pass these military retiree benefits cuts.
This is not Obama.

Um, check those meds, dear. Republicans may raise but won't cut military retiree benefits like the Clintonistas have historically done. We cut back on waste, not on winners.

 

[Warrior102]

Timing is important to the consideration.


In my civilian job I can choose, at any time, to not show up for work, common courtesy says I give notice, call my boss, etc. but it is not required. Nothing happens (Oh I might not get a good reference, but it is not illegal.)

On the other hand a military members who does that are subject to a felony conviction under the United States Code (USC Title 10 Chapter 47, Uniform Code of Military Justice) for Mutiny (Article 94) and if committed during a time of war Article 85 Desertion. They can then spend a term in prison, life in prison, or be subject to the Death Penalty. What a military member can do is choose to leave the service at the end of their contract period but even then they can be retained on active duty involuntarily under "Stop Loss" provisions of the USC.



Just a little bit different between the civilian world and the military world.

>>>>

My son-in-law who serves in the Air Force can call in sick, gets vacation days, housing help and good pay.

HEY!! I'm not complaining. Heck, my daughter gets to go to college with a TON of help from the federal government because her husband is serving in the military. (She's never served a day.)

Thanks much to all of you who are helping pay for my daughter to attend college!!

.

Your son in law is lucky to work in a job where the supervisors allow that, most people don't really have that anymore. Most of the time in the Military if you are sick you have to report to sick call and thats an all day affair, might as well just go to work.

I about blew coffee through my nose when I read that "calling in sick" BS.
That would have NEVER BEEN THOUGHT OF when I was in. You either (a) report for duty, (b) go to sick call.
None of this "calling in sick" bullshit.

 

[freedombecki]

There is a lot of stupidity, misinformation, intelligence and good information in this thread.

Too bad so many can't tell the difference.

When I first enlisted we were told that if we served for 20 years that we would receive free health and dental care for life. That was taken away from us in 1995. After I retired. That was the first thing to really be taken away. Suddenly we were paying for healthcare and we had no dental coverage at all. Unless you lived near a Military dental facility then you could get an appointment if they could squeeze you in. No promises......

What else no one mentioned is that the co-pays for military prescriptions will go up on 1 October. So it has already started. Also I remind you that there has been no inflation for the past 2 years, so no cost of living raises..... How many of you believe that there was no inflation in 2 years?

Anyway, the military is unique, those who never served have no clue, those who claim it was easy were skaters and the ones who I had little use for. I thank them for their service but please do not reenlist.

And anyone who thinks that the military hasn't earned every dime are idiots.

I've only negged 2 people in this thread so far, anyone else want to get stupid?

I, by the way, am one of the fortunate ones who SFC Ollie has chosen to neg rep, so I will continue to be stupid....

I could've sworn I heard you in particular whining about one of America's heroes whining just a few minutes back...