Michigan, the Final Straw...

Discussion in 'Congress' started by Care4all, Jun 1, 2008.

  1. Care4all
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    Care4all Warrior Princess Supporting Member

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    I woke up this morning, feeling even worse about what is going on in my country regarding the votes of the people, than I did after the Bush v. Gore fiasco was over....though Bush v. Gore is close. I feel this way because it was MY PARTY that was causing the Fiasco and CHANGING THE RULES MIDSTREAM THEMSELVES.

    I am not sure if you guys are aware that the uncommitted vote, in the Michigan Primary was governed by certain Michigan Primary Rules, put in place before their primary began.

    Each Candidate, was aware of those rules and sent a copy of those rules when they were made.

    Here is the Cover letter and News release that the Democratic party sent out to their members:

    News from
    THE MICHIGAN DEMOCRATIC PARTY
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
    Contact: Jason Moon
    517-371-5410
    December 10, 2007

    MDP Releases Voter Guide To Help Voters Understand Presidential Primary

    LANSING – Today the Michigan Democratic Party released a voter guide to help voters understand the January 15, 2008 Democratic Presidential Primary.


    “We want every eligible Democratic voter in Michigan to vote in the January 15, 2008 Democratic Presidential Primary,” said MDP Chair Mark Brewer. “This guide gives voters the details of the Primary and all of their voting rights so that every Michigan Democrat can participate in helping choose the 2008 Democratic presidential candidate. The guide is available on our website and we encourage voters to circulate it.”




    Read the guide on the Internet here>
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________
    Voter Guide On The January 15, 2008
    Michigan Democratic Presidential Primary

    1. Voters will vote at their regular polling places between 7 A.M. and 8 P.M.

    2. Voters can vote by absentee ballot if they meet one of the requirements – out of town, age 60 or older, disability, etc.

    3. The deadline to register to vote is 30 days before January 15, 2008 or December 17, 2007.

    4. In order to vote at a polling place, a voter must show a photo ID or sign a statement that they do not have a photo ID with them. Absentee voters do not have to produce a photo ID.

    5. Voters will be asked whether they want a Democratic or Republican ballot, and a record will be made of which ballot they take.

    6. The voter’s choice of candidate will be secret as in all public elections.

    7. The Democratic ballot will have 6 choices:
    Hillary Clinton
    Christopher Dodd
    Mike Gravel
    Dennis Kucinich
    Uncommitted
    Write-in

    8. A vote for “uncommitted” is a vote to send delegates to the Democratic National Convention who are not committed or pledged to any candidate. Those delegates can vote for any candidate they choose at the Convention.

    9. Supporters of Joe Biden, John Edwards, Barack Obama and Bill Richardson are urged to vote “uncommitted” instead of writing in their candidates’ names because write-in votes for those candidates will not be counted.


    ###
    Paid for by the Michigan Democratic State Central Committee, 606 Townsend St., Lansing, MI 48933. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee.



    So then i read that not Only did Obama CHOOSE to take his name off the ballot volluntarily but he didn't even fill out the application for him to be eligible for COMMITTED delegates to himself, via a write in vote. (This WAS ALL a CALCULATED POLITICAL DECISION on the Obama camp's part)

    WOODTV.com & WOOD TV8: Grand Rapids news, weather, sports and video | No Democratic candidates file paperwork to accept write-in votes

    And then I read that Obama is in one of the Early states that he made a pledge to, Iowa, out there campaigning that he was 'On their side, with banning Michigan, he even withdrew his name for them, because they are the citizens that deserve the elitist right to choose our president' paraphrased.

    Then I read article after article and blog after blog on bashing Hillary for NOT removing her name.. Obamaites sent in to Petition and Contest the results of the fricking primary that Obama chose to pull his name off of in April, that Hillary violated rules for having campaign fund raisers and for not pulling her name off the ballot...yes a Legal meneuver alla Bush....

    9. Petitioners assert that the Reg. 3.4.C time for filing does not begin running until
    the list of selected delegates is published. In any case, the petition will be filed
    prior to the final action of the Michigan Democratic Party on May 17, 2008.
    10. Petitioners allege the pledged delegates and alternates do not fairly reflect the
    expressed presidential preferences of convention participants on April 19, 2008.
    11. Petitioners allege the unpledged and pledged party leaders and elected official
    (PLEO) delegates did not abide by approved DNC Rules, resulting in the
    unsanctioned presidential primary. Their actions have injured petitioners.
    12. Petitioners allege the PLEO delegates are not selected by approved DNC Rules,
    specifically Rules 9.C and 9.D. This action will injure petitioners.
    13. Petitioners allege the Clinton campaign failed to abide by approved DNC Rules,
    specifically Rule 20.C(1)(b). Their actions have injured petitioners.
    --------------------------------------

    But the votes went to certification by their Secretary of state and went on to the DNC by the May 17th RULE cut off date...

    Official count:

    2008 Official Michigan Presidential Primary Election Results - President of the United States 4 Year Term (1) Position

    NOW, going back to what Michigan Democratic Party has in their rules and the DNC ALSO has in their rules on Uncommitted Votes:

    8. A vote for “uncommitted” is a vote to send delegates to the Democratic National Convention who are not committed or pledged to any candidate. Those delegates can vote for any candidate they choose at the Convention.

    The Rules and Bylaws committee yesterday, made a decision to take the Michigan State, legally Certified votes, and CHANGED THIS RULE on Uncommitted Delegates that Hillary was counting on to capture more uncommitted delegates of Biden's and Edward's and others that dropped out or were left in the LEGAL COLUMN OF UNCOMMITTED VOTES, absolutely in the 11th HOUR , yesterday, which is what the Obama legal team was SHOOTING for....the disenfranchisement of legal votes and the reallocation of legal votes CASTED in the Hillary column, AND they THREW OUT the Michigan Legal Rule Governing Uncommitted votes and gave ALL OF THOSE SUPPOSEDLY UNCOMMITTED VOTES that were up for grabs legally BY THE RULES OF THEIR PRIMARY ELECTION, to COMMITTED VOTES ALL IN OBAMA'S DELEGATE COLUMN yesterday.

    Then on TOP of this egrecious act and violation of their own party rules for Uncommitted votes, they took the actual votes casted in this Primary and reallocated the ACTUAL Citizen's vote based on a exit poll from oblivion which resulted in TAKING AWAY 4 actual pledged delegates that the Citizens gave to Hillary and that was certified already as Hillary's.

    NOW, this was the OBAMA TEAM STABBING HILLARY IN THE BACK AND TWISTING THE KNIFE AS SAYING IT WAS A FAIR DECISION.

    He could have taken the high ground and been diplomatic and given Hillary the votes that she DESERVED AND GOT THRU THE ACTUAL VOTES CASTED by individual citizens,

    since he already used the male dominated DNC machine and Lawyers to finagle them in to giving HIM all of the uncommitted votes and transfering them ALL in to COMMITTED PLEDGED DELEGATES IN HIS COLUMN, after the legal certification of otherwise.... which gave him 45 pledged delegates officially added to his column OVERNIGHT, and thru BREAKING THE ACTUAL RULES OF THE DNC FOR UNCOMMITTED DELEGATES,

    Taking away, the opportunity for Hillary to capture those uncommitted votes in to her column...which may NOT have been likely, HOWEVER he slapped her and her constituants in the face and thru the old boys club and his lawyers, he managed to CHANGE THE RULES and to play the System so to eliminate his Opponent thru Technicalities and thru disenfranchisement of the actual voters.

    I don't KNOW WHERE the Michigan Democrats got the polls they used to actually TAKE THE VOTE OF THE CITIZEN AWAY FROM THEM and recalculate what they THINK THEY MEANT other than their vote that they casted, and then take VOTES THAT HILLARY ACTUALLY GOT and give THEM TO OBAMA.....

    Breaking the fundamental Rule of the Democratic Party and Democracy in general, one man, one vote casted and that the Privacy of our vote is SACRED and ours alone to make....

    Obama was polling around 22% prior to the election and Hillary 58%, Biden and Edwards were in there somewhere too.

    Hillary got about 58% in the Actual Vote of the Citizen...and looking at the demographics of white verses black verses female verses male was the actual trend at the time....

    REMEMBER, this was early on and a January 15th Primaryin Michigan.... before obama started the trend of winning on super tuesday, and this is when they legally had their primary...

    TO COME IN NOW, and try to make it like Obama would have gotten more votes if his name was on the ballot, THAT HE CHOSE FOR POLITICAL POSTURING, taking his name off the ballot and not applying for a write in position via their laws, is changing the actual vote that the citizen's casted, on that date.

    THIS IS WHAT THE OBAMA TEAM FOUGHT FOR and was holding out for...his first choice was that Michigan would not count at all...this wiping out delegates that he KNEW would go to Hillary at that time because she was polling way ahead...(the trend of his knocking out opponents thru legalities and disenfranchisement of the citizen vote)

    THEN. his team wanted all of the uncommitted votes by rules and certified by law to be changed in to Pledged delegates for him...then he wanted all of the votes that were actual cast, and CHANGE THEM to favor his column again.

    WELL , my dear friends, that to me is one of the MOST unethical things that a group of politicians could do, ACTUAL CHANGE THE CITIZEN'S PRIVATE VOTE, and add them to another person.


    Here is polls right prior and after their primary election:

    Michigan Democratic Presidential Preference

    Michigan - Democrats - Exit Polls - MSNBC.com

    bottom line, what happened yesterday at the DNC rules and bylaws committee was one of the SCUMMIEST, ELITIST,UNETHICAL THINGS THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN A POLITICAL PARTY OR CANDIDATE DO....

    AND it undermines the fundamental basis of Democracy.

    ANOTHER SOURCE: Michigan Democratic primary, 2008 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/QUOTE]
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2008
  2. Larkinn
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    Larkinn Senior Member

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    You are pathetic.

    You want to bitch about changing the rules? How about the rule that FL and MI would get NO VOTES AT THE CONVENTION? Your ok with changing that rule, but now you want to bitch, whine, and moan about how they changed the rules in Michigan?
     
  3. Jeepers
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    Jeepers Senior Member

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    Ding Ding Ding.... be happy that any delegates were sat. The motion that was approved was submitted by the Michigan dem party.. who would know better about how to handle this situation than the very people involved... Obama was more than generous with the resolution on both states...

    Now I see a headline on cnn.com... "Angry Clinton supporters tell party leaders: 'Let's go McCain!'"

    WTF.. . I only thought idiots were republican and voted for bush... silly me... I guess both parties have em...

    Oh.. if your thinkin bout voting for Mac.. just remember that two more supreme court nominees takes us back to the days when coat hangers were in fashion...
     
  4. Jeepers
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    Jeepers Senior Member

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    "He could have taken the high ground and been diplomatic and given Hillary the votes that she DESERVED AND GOT THRU THE ACTUAL VOTES CASTED by individual citizens..."

    Christ care... she is lucky to have gotten any votes out of Mich...
     
  5. Jeepers
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    Jeepers Senior Member

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    "...since he already used the male dominated DNC machine and Lawyers to finagle them in to giving HIM all of the uncommitted votes and transfering them ALL in to COMMITTED PLEDGED DELEGATES IN HIS COLUMN, after the legal certification of otherwise.... which gave him 45 pledged delegates officially added to his column OVERNIGHT, and thru BREAKING THE ACTUAL RULES OF THE DNC FOR UNCOMMITTED DELEGATES"

    Way over that line care...
     
  6. Jon
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    Jon The CPA

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    The point is, Uncommitted was a CLEAR choice for people. Many voted uncommitted for what it stood for, they don't vote Uncommitted to mean Obama.

    I'd rather the votes not count at all, rather than the votes be counted differently than they were cast.

    Clinton will appeal, and she should.
     
  7. Shogun
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    Shogun Free: Mudholes Stomped

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    clinton won't appeal shit. she's been given a stage left to take and she's go lick her wounded paws until 12...


    that is, unless the dem party had to bargain for her a VP spot and she makes good on that JFK reference.
     
  8. Larkinn
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    Larkinn Senior Member

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    Changing the rules, like counting FL and MI after they said they wouldn't? I agree. So lets not count them.

    By the way. If Michigan had followed the trend of similar states something like 2 million Democrats would have voted in the primary. Instead only around 700,000 did. How do you feel about those 1.3 million who never voted because they thought their vote wouldn't count?

    Or was that all "political calculations" as well?

    Evidence that it was a "calculated political decision".

    Well congrats on completely fucking the primary system, Care. Kudos to you and the rest of the people who got the RBC to change its mind.

    Legal manuevers like Hillary did in Nevada? Or was it ok for her to try and disenfranchise people?

    No, actually they were shooting for the position that Obama wanted all along, and Hillary changed her mind about, that FL and MI wouldn't count. But because of idiots like you he compromised on his position.

    You don't seem to understand how the RBC works. They can change the rules, so its not in violation of the rules. Kapish?

    Right. :wtf:

    She didn't deserve those votes, even though you in your paranoid ravings think she does. So much for not wanting to change the rules midstream.

    As for taking the high ground...

    Obama had the votes for 50-50 MI split - First Read - msnbc.com

    No, changing the rules. Which you are fine with since you are more than happy to change the rules to allow FL and MI to be seated.

    Old boys club? Your screeching cries of sexism get more and more desperate every day.

    Funny, I've never heard you complaina bout the votes of the massive number of people who didn't vote because they thought it wouldn't count. What about them, Care? Or are you perfectly happy to disenfranchise them?
     
  9. Larkinn
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    Larkinn Senior Member

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    Obama would rather them not count at all as well. But to make it fair for him if the rules ARE to be changed and FL and MI ARE counted, then they need to give him some of those votes.
     
  10. Larkinn
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    Larkinn Senior Member

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    Care, you didn't tell us you were there...

    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KACQuZVAE3s]YouTube - Clinton Supporter Thrown Out of Rules Committee Meeting[/ame]
     

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