CDZ Meth addict, 7 kids, all with developmental issues. Did 'The System' fail her?

[MarathonMike]

The child of a meth addict was tested at clinic where my wife works. The woman has 7 kids and all of them have varying degrees of mental and physical problems. The child tested at the clinic had a profound hearing loss in addition to being developmentally delayed. The woman has been in and out of drug treatment centers for at least 10 years. She has lost custody of the kids at this point, but that hardly solves anything. This woman and her kids will most likely be burdens on society and other people for there entire lives. Maybe a miracle will happen and they will all be fine but that is not the likely outcome. My question for debate is "What should our health care or legal system have done differently with this woman?" More aggressive drug abuse treatment? Cut off her welfare? Put her in a mental hospital? Put her in prison? Tie her tubes? Nothing? Something else?

I assume the treatment centers tried to help her, but that didn't work, obviously. Consider the human cost and millions of dollars in treatment and therapy this family will consume during their lifetimes. It's almost mind boggling what a bottomless pit of despair this woman has created. IMO after child number 2, her tubes should have been tied along with more aggressive drug treatment. In other words "either stay clean or go to prison". I don't see any other way to limit the damage. What would you do here? This is a tragedy and I'm sure there are women like her in every city.

 

[BULLDOG]

Don't know enough to tell if the system failed her or not. I'm positive it failed those kids.

 

[DarkFury]

Those kids are her pay check. Nothing more then that.

 

[Disir]

The child of a meth addict was tested at clinic where my wife works. The woman has 7 kids and all of them have varying degrees of mental and physical problems. The child tested at the clinic had a profound hearing loss in addition to being developmentally delayed. The woman has been in and out of drug treatment centers for at least 10 years. She has lost custody of the kids at this point, but that hardly solves anything. This woman and her kids will most likely be burdens on society and other people for there entire lives. Maybe a miracle will happen and they will all be fine but that is not the likely outcome. My question for debate is "What should our health care or legal system have done differently with this woman?" More aggressive drug abuse treatment? Cut off her welfare? Put her in a mental hospital? Put her in prison? Tie her tubes? Nothing? Something else?

I assume the treatment centers tried to help her, but that didn't work, obviously. Consider the human cost and millions of dollars in treatment and therapy this family will consume during their lifetimes. It's almost mind boggling what a bottomless pit of despair this woman has created. IMO after child number 2, her tubes should have been tied along with more aggressive drug treatment. In other words "either stay clean or go to prison". I don't see any other way to limit the damage. What would you do here? This is a tragedy and I'm sure there are women like her in every city.

She lost welfare, more than likely, after she lost her kids. She should have been sterilized after the first one.

Right now the mantra is not to lock these people up. There is no aggressive treatment. I don't care what you do or how much you do or how much you care there has to be desire to get clean and stay clean. If that doesn't exist then there is nothing that can be done until that individual finds it--and that is only if that individual had no other psychiatric needs. We don't know that. Treatment centers provide tools but they can't do that work for them and that is an inside thing.

There were the same issues when there was a crack epidemic. Then there was a study that said the "damage" done to the children was inconclusive. The rest of the world was like, how do you not see this? You could find a mom w/ 12 kids.

 

[Picaro]

We can't institutionalize the mentally ill any more. That's the problem, period. Forced sterilization should be a dead last resort; lots of addicts do recover, and stay that way; the chronically mentally ill do not 'get better', so it's a different issue with them.

 

[Disir]

Lots of addicts do recover.

But, that whole personal journey is in a way different time zone than the kids. The kids don't see that personal journey. They see.......you chose drugs over me.

 

[Toronado3800]

The child of a meth addict was tested at clinic where my wife works. The woman has 7 kids and all of them have varying degrees of mental and physical problems. The child tested at the clinic had a profound hearing loss in addition to being developmentally delayed. The woman has been in and out of drug treatment centers for at least 10 years. She has lost custody of the kids at this point, but that hardly solves anything. This woman and her kids will most likely be burdens on society and other people for there entire lives. Maybe a miracle will happen and they will all be fine but that is not the likely outcome. My question for debate is "What should our health care or legal system have done differently with this woman?" More aggressive drug abuse treatment? Cut off her welfare? Put her in a mental hospital? Put her in prison? Tie her tubes? Nothing? Something else?

I assume the treatment centers tried to help her, but that didn't work, obviously. Consider the human cost and millions of dollars in treatment and therapy this family will consume during their lifetimes. It's almost mind boggling what a bottomless pit of despair this woman has created. IMO after child number 2, her tubes should have been tied along with more aggressive drug treatment. In other words "either stay clean or go to prison". I don't see any other way to limit the damage. What would you do here? This is a tragedy and I'm sure there are women like her in every city.

She lost welfare, more than likely, after she lost her kids. She should have been sterilized after the first one.

Right now the mantra is not to lock these people up. There is no aggressive treatment. I don't care what you do or how much you do or how much you care there has to be desire to get clean and stay clean. If that doesn't exist then there is nothing that can be done until that individual finds it--and that is only if that individual had no other psychiatric needs. We don't know that. Treatment centers provide tools but they can't do that work for them and that is an inside thing.

There were the same issues when there was a crack epidemic. Then there was a study that said the "damage" done to the children was inconclusive. The rest of the world was like, how do you not see this? You could find a mom w/ 12 kids.

I see your point. But man, sterilization clinics ran by big government are a step further than I am willing to go.

 

[Zander]

Dig a deep hole for the mother, she's already half dead, let's help her reach her destination.

The kids will have to deal with the hand they are dealt. They may surprise you. Plenty of kids grow up in horrible circumstances and make good lives for themselves.

 

[Picaro]

Dig a deep hole for the mother, she's already half dead, let's help her reach her destination.

The kids will have to deal with the hand they are dealt. They may surprise you. Plenty of kids grow up in horrible circumstances and make good lives for themselves.

True enough, but the odds are about 1 in 3 they won't, and if they're also in some shithole like Chicago or NYC, it's 2 in 3 they become gangbanging serial killers

 

[Disir]

The child of a meth addict was tested at clinic where my wife works. The woman has 7 kids and all of them have varying degrees of mental and physical problems. The child tested at the clinic had a profound hearing loss in addition to being developmentally delayed. The woman has been in and out of drug treatment centers for at least 10 years. She has lost custody of the kids at this point, but that hardly solves anything. This woman and her kids will most likely be burdens on society and other people for there entire lives. Maybe a miracle will happen and they will all be fine but that is not the likely outcome. My question for debate is "What should our health care or legal system have done differently with this woman?" More aggressive drug abuse treatment? Cut off her welfare? Put her in a mental hospital? Put her in prison? Tie her tubes? Nothing? Something else?

I assume the treatment centers tried to help her, but that didn't work, obviously. Consider the human cost and millions of dollars in treatment and therapy this family will consume during their lifetimes. It's almost mind boggling what a bottomless pit of despair this woman has created. IMO after child number 2, her tubes should have been tied along with more aggressive drug treatment. In other words "either stay clean or go to prison". I don't see any other way to limit the damage. What would you do here? This is a tragedy and I'm sure there are women like her in every city.

She lost welfare, more than likely, after she lost her kids. She should have been sterilized after the first one.

Right now the mantra is not to lock these people up. There is no aggressive treatment. I don't care what you do or how much you do or how much you care there has to be desire to get clean and stay clean. If that doesn't exist then there is nothing that can be done until that individual finds it--and that is only if that individual had no other psychiatric needs. We don't know that. Treatment centers provide tools but they can't do that work for them and that is an inside thing.

There were the same issues when there was a crack epidemic. Then there was a study that said the "damage" done to the children was inconclusive. The rest of the world was like, how do you not see this? You could find a mom w/ 12 kids.

I see your point. But man, sterilization clinics ran by big government are a step further than I am willing to go.

Pay them to get sterilized. $300

 

[usmbguest5318]

Did 'The System' fail her?

No. The "system" failed her children.

 

[boedicca]

This woman commits child abuse just by giving birth. Take her kids away from her and have her sterilized as a condition of not being put in jail for child endangerment and abuse.

The system did fail her (i.e. the Great Society Programs that turned single motherhood into a career choice). She is, however, still her own agent and responsible for her behavior.

Until we reform welfare so that their are real work requirements, substance abuse tests, and elimination of programs that encourage out of wedlock births, this problem will perpetuate.

 

[usmbguest5318]

The child of a meth addict was tested at clinic where my wife works. The woman has 7 kids and all of them have varying degrees of mental and physical problems. The child tested at the clinic had a profound hearing loss in addition to being developmentally delayed. The woman has been in and out of drug treatment centers for at least 10 years. She has lost custody of the kids at this point, but that hardly solves anything. This woman and her kids will most likely be burdens on society and other people for there entire lives. Maybe a miracle will happen and they will all be fine but that is not the likely outcome. My question for debate is "What should our health care or legal system have done differently with this woman?" More aggressive drug abuse treatment? Cut off her welfare? Put her in a mental hospital? Put her in prison? Tie her tubes? Nothing? Something else?

I assume the treatment centers tried to help her, but that didn't work, obviously. Consider the human cost and millions of dollars in treatment and therapy this family will consume during their lifetimes. It's almost mind boggling what a bottomless pit of despair this woman has created. IMO after child number 2, her tubes should have been tied along with more aggressive drug treatment. In other words "either stay clean or go to prison". I don't see any other way to limit the damage. What would you do here? This is a tragedy and I'm sure there are women like her in every city.

The child of a meth addict was tested at clinic where my wife works. The woman has 7 kids and all of them have varying degrees of mental and physical problems.

The woman has been in and out of drug treatment centers for at least 10 years.

"What should our health care or legal system have done differently with this woman?"

• What woman?
  • The mother of the child?
  • Your wife? Might your wife be both a patient and an employee of the clinic?
  • Some other woman who is neither the child's mother nor your wife, but who has seven kids with "varying degrees of mental and physical problems?"

• Is the meth addict who was tested at the clinic and who has a child a woman?

• If so, is she the same woman who has six other kids?
• If so, is she the same woman who's for a decade or more been in and out of drug treatment centers?

To share some thoughts about "the woman" and what may be done about her and her kids' plight, or that of other (potentially) similarly situated individuals, I need to ensure I have a clear understanding about "who's who" in your anecdote. Might the following be what you mean?

A woman addicted to meth, I'll call her "Betty," has seven children, one of whom was recently tested at the clinic where my wife works. Her child who was most recently tested at the clinic has profound hearing loss and is developmentally delayed. "Betty's six other children all have varying degrees of mental and physical problems. "Betty" has been in and out of drug treatment centers for at least 10 years; consequently, she has lost custody of here kids.

The state's/county's/city's revoking "Betty" custody of her kids is an unsatisfactory solution for she and her kids will most likely be burdens on society for their entire lives. Maybe a miracle will happen and they will all be fine but that is not the likely outcome.

My question for debate is:

• What should our health care or legal system have done differently with this woman?
  • More aggressive drug abuse treatment?
  • Cut off her welfare?
  • Put her in a mental hospital?
  • Put her in prison?
  • Tie her tubes?
  • Nothing?
  • Something else?

Assuming the above is what you mean, I have some questions to ask before I submit answers.

• Your anecdote doesn't indicate that "Betty" is on welfare. Is she? How do you come to know whether she does or does not receive public assistance?
• Realizing that "Betty" may have been a drug user/abuser long before she sought help, what are the ages of her kids, or more to the point, were any of them born before she commenced seeking drug abuse treatment?
• What kind of clinic does your wife work at? Is it a drug treatment clinic? Is it strictly a health, but not drug treatment, clinic? Is it a combination of the two? Is it a clinic within a hospital? I'm trying to understand the general nature of care for which someone brought the child to the clinic to obtain.
• Has "Betty" lost legal custody, physical custody (or both) of her kids?
  • Did "Betty" bring the child (her other kids) to the clinic "the other day?"
  • I'm asking because depending on the type of custody "Betty's" lost, it may be that among the things that needs to be done is establishing better means of ensuring that "Betty" not be permitted to be in or forced into a position of potentially having to make medical decisions for her kids. Mother or not mother, a meth addict isn't whom I'd ever trust with making decisions for others for they clearly don't make good decisions for themselves.

 

[Toronado3800]

The child of a meth addict was tested at clinic where my wife works. The woman has 7 kids and all of them have varying degrees of mental and physical problems. The child tested at the clinic had a profound hearing loss in addition to being developmentally delayed. The woman has been in and out of drug treatment centers for at least 10 years. She has lost custody of the kids at this point, but that hardly solves anything. This woman and her kids will most likely be burdens on society and other people for there entire lives. Maybe a miracle will happen and they will all be fine but that is not the likely outcome. My question for debate is "What should our health care or legal system have done differently with this woman?" More aggressive drug abuse treatment? Cut off her welfare? Put her in a mental hospital? Put her in prison? Tie her tubes? Nothing? Something else?

I assume the treatment centers tried to help her, but that didn't work, obviously. Consider the human cost and millions of dollars in treatment and therapy this family will consume during their lifetimes. It's almost mind boggling what a bottomless pit of despair this woman has created. IMO after child number 2, her tubes should have been tied along with more aggressive drug treatment. In other words "either stay clean or go to prison". I don't see any other way to limit the damage. What would you do here? This is a tragedy and I'm sure there are women like her in every city.

She lost welfare, more than likely, after she lost her kids. She should have been sterilized after the first one.

Right now the mantra is not to lock these people up. There is no aggressive treatment. I don't care what you do or how much you do or how much you care there has to be desire to get clean and stay clean. If that doesn't exist then there is nothing that can be done until that individual finds it--and that is only if that individual had no other psychiatric needs. We don't know that. Treatment centers provide tools but they can't do that work for them and that is an inside thing.

There were the same issues when there was a crack epidemic. Then there was a study that said the "damage" done to the children was inconclusive. The rest of the world was like, how do you not see this? You could find a mom w/ 12 kids.

I see your point. But man, sterilization clinics ran by big government are a step further than I am willing to go.

Pay them to get sterilized. $300

What government agency would you like to put in charge of this?

 

[Disir]

The child of a meth addict was tested at clinic where my wife works. The woman has 7 kids and all of them have varying degrees of mental and physical problems. The child tested at the clinic had a profound hearing loss in addition to being developmentally delayed. The woman has been in and out of drug treatment centers for at least 10 years. She has lost custody of the kids at this point, but that hardly solves anything. This woman and her kids will most likely be burdens on society and other people for there entire lives. Maybe a miracle will happen and they will all be fine but that is not the likely outcome. My question for debate is "What should our health care or legal system have done differently with this woman?" More aggressive drug abuse treatment? Cut off her welfare? Put her in a mental hospital? Put her in prison? Tie her tubes? Nothing? Something else?

I assume the treatment centers tried to help her, but that didn't work, obviously. Consider the human cost and millions of dollars in treatment and therapy this family will consume during their lifetimes. It's almost mind boggling what a bottomless pit of despair this woman has created. IMO after child number 2, her tubes should have been tied along with more aggressive drug treatment. In other words "either stay clean or go to prison". I don't see any other way to limit the damage. What would you do here? This is a tragedy and I'm sure there are women like her in every city.

She lost welfare, more than likely, after she lost her kids. She should have been sterilized after the first one.

Right now the mantra is not to lock these people up. There is no aggressive treatment. I don't care what you do or how much you do or how much you care there has to be desire to get clean and stay clean. If that doesn't exist then there is nothing that can be done until that individual finds it--and that is only if that individual had no other psychiatric needs. We don't know that. Treatment centers provide tools but they can't do that work for them and that is an inside thing.

There were the same issues when there was a crack epidemic. Then there was a study that said the "damage" done to the children was inconclusive. The rest of the world was like, how do you not see this? You could find a mom w/ 12 kids.

I see your point. But man, sterilization clinics ran by big government are a step further than I am willing to go.

Pay them to get sterilized. $300

What government agency would you like to put in charge of this?

Ever seen this?
Project Prevention - Children Requiring a Caring Community

Now she goes cross country.
Woman traveling country paying drug addicts to get vasectomies, tubes tied

Here is one that was back in '99
Cash-for-Sterilization Plan Draws Addicts and Critics

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

She should have been sterilized. However...that is unconstitutional. What is not, is subsidized sterilization. Give the woman an alternative, rehab and sterilization or lose the child permanently. Individuals who display anti-social behavior should be dealt with by society.

 

[Disir]

She should have been sterilized. However...that is unconstitutional. What is not, is subsidized sterilization. Give the woman an alternative, rehab and sterilization or lose the child permanently. Individuals who display anti-social behavior should be dealt with by society.

Buck v Bell has never been overturned.

 

[Tijn Von Ingersleben]

She should have been sterilized. However...that is unconstitutional. What is not, is subsidized sterilization. Give the woman an alternative, rehab and sterilization or lose the child permanently. Individuals who display anti-social behavior should be dealt with by society.

Buck v Bell has never been overturned.

True...from what I am reading you are correct. Well then...let's tie some meth head tubes shall we?

 

[Disir]

She should have been sterilized. However...that is unconstitutional. What is not, is subsidized sterilization. Give the woman an alternative, rehab and sterilization or lose the child permanently. Individuals who display anti-social behavior should be dealt with by society.

Buck v Bell has never been overturned.

True...from what I am reading you are correct. Well then...let's tie some meth head tubes shall we?

I think if we find a way to offer it for cash then we don't have to suck. But, ya. Let's do this.

 

[MarathonMike]

I will never understand why people are so aghast at the idea of sterilization for people who have ALREADY HAD KIDS and proven they are not fit to have them. In the case of this meth head, she not only was an unfit mother, the kids were born with irreversible defects. I have exactly the same opinion for 3rd world mothers, yet when I brought that up for discussion awhile I was attacked for being some sort of Nazi.
Is this just pure emotion over-riding logic and reason?