Mental Problem Not Gun Problem

[geauxtohell]

stop the nonsense-----anything can be dangerous in the hands of a psychotic person.

Yes, but not all weapons are created equal.

If Lougher had showed up with a carving knife, his ability to inflict carnage would have been minimal.

Lougher had a gun, because he intended to kill as many people as possible. You just can't do that with a weed whacker.

 

[geauxtohell]

BTW, here is the diagnostic criteria for Schizophrenia:

According to the revised fourth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR), to be diagnosed with schizophrenia, three diagnostic criteria must be met:[77]

1. Characteristic symptoms: Two or more of the following, each present for much of the time during a one-month period (or less, if symptoms remitted with treatment).
* Delusions
* Hallucinations
* Disorganized speech, which is a manifestation of formal thought disorder
* Grossly disorganized behavior (e.g. dressing inappropriately, crying frequently) or catatonic behavior
* Negative symptoms: Blunted affect (lack or decline in emotional response), alogia (lack or decline in speech), or avolition (lack or decline in motivation)

If the delusions are judged to be bizarre, or hallucinations consist of hearing one voice participating in a running commentary of the patient's actions or of hearing two or more voices conversing with each other, only that symptom is required above. The speech disorganization criterion is only met if it is severe enough to substantially impair communication.

2. Social or occupational dysfunction: For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care, are markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset.

3. Significant duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least six months. This six-month period must include at least one month of symptoms (or less, if symptoms remitted with treatment).

I only put this up here because "schizophrenia" seems to be the crowd favorite when it comes to mental illnesses (probably because it is the most apparent). It unfairly stigmatizes schizophrenics.

We don't have any evidence that Lougher had hallucinations and he doesn't appear to be disorganized or exhibit negative symptoms.

He was certainly delusional, but his delusions were "non-bizarre".

There are a lot of things that could go on his differential, to include substance induced psychosis.

 

[Avorysuds]

It's quite a spectacle to see those who were clamoring for racial profiling and banning mosques suddenly circling the wagons around their own set of pet civil rights.

I'm sorry, wtf did you just say? Can you even provide any proof of this?

 

[Mr. Shaman]

He is a schizophrenic.

I can't find that Lougher has been diagnosed with schizophrenia anywhere. Most schizophrenics would lack the ability to concoct and carry out a plan of assassination. Their thought process is too disordered. Instead, Schizophrenics tend to act in the moment based on their delusions and hallucinations, which can make them a danger to themselves (mostly) or others (rarely).

Where do you get that he was schizoprhenic?

Wouldn't you be better-served doing (and, referring-to) some actual-research?

DEGREES Of Schizophrenia - HERE​

"With paranoid schizophrenia, you're less likely to be affected by mood problems or problems with thinking, concentration and attention."

Symptoms - Paranoid schizophrenia​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

BTW, here is the diagnostic criteria for Schizophrenia:

According to the revised fourth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV-TR), to be diagnosed with schizophrenia, three diagnostic criteria must be met:[77]

1. Characteristic symptoms: Two or more of the following, each present for much of the time during a one-month period (or less, if symptoms remitted with treatment).
* Delusions
* Hallucinations
* Disorganized speech, which is a manifestation of formal thought disorder
* Grossly disorganized behavior (e.g. dressing inappropriately, crying frequently) or catatonic behavior
* Negative symptoms: Blunted affect (lack or decline in emotional response), alogia (lack or decline in speech), or avolition (lack or decline in motivation)

If the delusions are judged to be bizarre, or hallucinations consist of hearing one voice participating in a running commentary of the patient's actions or of hearing two or more voices conversing with each other, only that symptom is required above. The speech disorganization criterion is only met if it is severe enough to substantially impair communication.

2. Social or occupational dysfunction: For a significant portion of the time since the onset of the disturbance, one or more major areas of functioning such as work, interpersonal relations, or self-care, are markedly below the level achieved prior to the onset.

3. Significant duration: Continuous signs of the disturbance persist for at least six months. This six-month period must include at least one month of symptoms (or less, if symptoms remitted with treatment).

I only put this up here because "schizophrenia" seems to be the crowd favorite when it comes to mental illnesses (probably because it is the most apparent). It unfairly stigmatizes schizophrenics.

We don't have any evidence that Lougher had hallucinations and he doesn't appear to be disorganized or exhibit negative symptoms.

He was certainly delusional, but his delusions were "non-bizarre".

There are a lot of things that could go on his differential, to include substance induced psychosis.

Where's your source??



Anyone could make-up a title....and, content.​

 

[jeffrockit]

the fact still remains that guns can kill people

So the gun decided on it's own to fire at the people. Guns can not do anything without a person to fire it. People kill people not guns as it is an inanimate object and has no power to do anything without an individual.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Here we go again with more gun laws or speech laws.
Why do the left keep trying to make more gun laws instead of getting right to the problem,which is this guy has a mental problem.
It is not a gun problem, it's a mental disorder and gun laws will not keep guns out of their hands. They need to be sent to a Mental Health facility.
He is a schizophrenic.
If we had Health Centers all across the nation, the college he went to could have gotten him into one of those places and away from the public.
Pima College has, as all schools and colleges, social workers and psychologist's.
If congress passed a law for schools, college's,hospital's so on and so forth to have more clout at assesing these type of mental problems, they could be sent to theses type of facalities and have gotten him away from harming anyone.
In other words, Make a law to protect the public from the mentality ill.
Not gun laws ,not speech laws.

First of all, Tucson already has a number of excellent facilities for the treatment of mental illness, thanks so very much. We also have provisions for mental health treatment for the poor and indigent, so this is covered.

Second, I have attended Pima Community College, and while I think they are excellent in their capacity of community education and serving as a junior college to the U of A, I have no desire whatsoever to give them - or any other educational institution, for that matter - the power to start having people committed.

 

[Cecilie1200]

the fact still remains that guns can kill people

No, they can't, any more than a hammer can jump up and bash someone's head in. That gun didn't kill anyone; Jared Loughner did. Even if you could make guns impossible to get - which you can't - he could just as easily have walked up to Gabby Giffords and stabbed her, or exploded a bomb, or thrown acid on her, or driven a car into the middle of the crowd. I don't think I care to pin public safety on the hope that homicidal lunatics will be shy about up-close wetwork.

 

[Cecilie1200]

The answer is enacting stricter security at political events. If somebody wants to kill a specific target, along with others-they're going to get their hands on the firearms to carry out their plan regardless. Making it harder to get firearms wont stop them from doing that.

I don't see what's wrong with not allowing people to bring guns to public political events-they already ban guns in some public places as it is (schools, airports, courthouses, etc.)-I went to Times Square for new years and we got searched 5-6 times easily.

Anyways the bottom line is the only thing to blame was the person who decided to pull the trigger. Security would be much more efficient in helping to prevent events such as this, and wouldn't effect Americans in other walks of life, as making new gun laws would.

The problem with that is that Gabby Giffords was shot in a Safeway parking lot, if I understand correctly (Safeway's a grocery store, if you're not familiar with it). You can't prevent people from carrying guns in an open public space without just taking away the right to keep and bear arms entirely.

Part of me wonders how likely Loughner would have been to try this had Giffords and her supporters been conservative, with the corresponding likelihood that many of them would have also been armed that day. I think he was nuts, but that doesn't necessarily mean he was stupid, or willing to take the chance of getting shot himself before ever getting to shoot anyone else.

 

[R.C. Christian]

This is a slippery slope. In typical left wing fashion we could eventually see anyone on a list having taken simple anti-depressants being unqualified for LIFE to own a gun. That is where this road leads.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Here we go again with more gun laws or speech laws.
Why do the left keep trying to make more gun laws instead of getting right to the problem,which is this guy has a mental problem.
It is not a gun problem, it's a mental disorder and gun laws will not keep guns out of their hands. They need to be sent to a Mental Health facility.
He is a schizophrenic.
If we had Health Centers all across the nation, the college he went to could have gotten him into one of those places and away from the public.
Pima College has, as all schools and colleges, social workers and psychologist's.
If congress passed a law for schools, college's,hospital's so on and so forth to have more clout at assesing these type of mental problems, they could be sent to theses type of facalities and have gotten him away from harming anyone.
In other words, Make a law to protect the public from the mentality ill.
Not gun laws ,not speech laws.

It's not just the rhetoric about guns and speech.

On Morning Joe today that Indian (or whatever) clown whose name I can never remember was bemoaning our entire society in general as the cause. Some people are just so friggin' stupid. There are kooks in the world and every now and then one does something terrible. Period.

After listening to crazy talk from our poltical sphere

Oh, bullshit. I listen to political talk; you listen to political talk. Everyone on this goddamned board listens to it, much of it often WAY more hateful and crazier than anything you'll hear on the radio or TV. Not a single one of us has felt the slightest compulsion to go out and shoot a public official, let alone innocent bystanders. Are you seriously suggesting that the entire nation should forego its right to hold a robust political diiscussion and freely express itself merely in a lame attempt to keep random and rare lunatics pacified?

You're just incapable of blaming the perpetrator for the crime. You want to hold everyone and everything responsible for what happened except the guy who decided to kill people.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How about Rep Grajalva is going to bring a gun law bill to the floor?
How about Robert Brady wanting a law to stop Target signs that Palin put up?
This will not stop a mentally ill person

The more I listen to the left's rhetoric on this, the sorrier I feel for Gabby Giffords and the more grateful I become that I'm not a leftist. It must suck royally to have your own supposed allies gleefully stampeding over your bleeding body to launch political attacks. It's a damned pity they don't seem even half as concerned about her as a person as they are about her as a tool.

 

[Cecilie1200]

It's not a violation of the constitution to get help for the mentally ill if they are a threat to society.

Then perhaps you should talk to the people who were supposed to be responsible for that.

 

[Chris]

State background checks have been shown in studies to reduce gun death between 22-27%. 29 states have such checks, Arizona is not one of them.

Likewise, allowing the 2004 Republican Congress allowed the assault weapons ban to expire, otherwise this nutcase would not have been able to buy extended ammo clips with 31 bullets in them at Walmart.

Thanks Republicans, for helping criminals kill more people.

 

[Chris]

How about Rep Grajalva is going to bring a gun law bill to the floor?
How about Robert Brady wanting a law to stop Target signs that Palin put up?
This will not stop a mentally ill person

The more I listen to the left's rhetoric on this, the sorrier I feel for Gabby Giffords and the more grateful I become that I'm not a leftist. It must suck royally to have your own supposed allies gleefully stampeding over your bleeding body to launch political attacks. It's a damned pity they don't seem even half as concerned about her as a person as they are about her as a tool.

1,000,000 Americans have been killed by guns since 1960.

I will attack anyone at anytime who wants this madness to continue.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How about Rep Grajalva is going to bring a gun law bill to the floor?
How about Robert Brady wanting a law to stop Target signs that Palin put up?
This will not stop a mentally ill person

The more I listen to the left's rhetoric on this, the sorrier I feel for Gabby Giffords and the more grateful I become that I'm not a leftist. It must suck royally to have your own supposed allies gleefully stampeding over your bleeding body to launch political attacks. It's a damned pity they don't seem even half as concerned about her as a person as they are about her as a tool.

1,000,000 Americans have been killed by guns since 1960.

I will attack anyone at anytime who wants this madness to continue.

Well, then, I guess you're just THRILLED that Gabby Giffords got herself shot so that you have a spiffy new weapon to advance your agenda with. Too bad she had the ill manners to survive the attack instead of dying and being an even better tool for you to use, huh?

It's bad enough when you sick, rabid, partisan bastards throw your own people under the bus, but using their bleeding corpses as red carpets is just beyond repulsive.

 

[Chris]

The more I listen to the left's rhetoric on this, the sorrier I feel for Gabby Giffords and the more grateful I become that I'm not a leftist. It must suck royally to have your own supposed allies gleefully stampeding over your bleeding body to launch political attacks. It's a damned pity they don't seem even half as concerned about her as a person as they are about her as a tool.

1,000,000 Americans have been killed by guns since 1960.

I will attack anyone at anytime who wants this madness to continue.

Well, then, I guess you're just THRILLED that Gabby Giffords got herself shot so that you have a spiffy new weapon to advance your agenda with. Too bad she had the ill manners to survive the attack instead of dying and being an even better tool for you to use, huh?

It's bad enough when you sick, rabid, partisan bastards throw your own people under the bus, but using their bleeding corpses as red carpets is just beyond repulsive.

No, the sick bastards are the people who vote in Republicans that allow 31 bullet ammo clips to be sold to killers at Walmart.

Anyone who isn't outraged by that is without feeling.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

the fact still remains that guns can kill people

So do cars and people, wanna outlaw people? How about Doctors they kill 100k a year, 2 and half times those murdered each year.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Sometimes sane, law abiding people do insane things.

No doubt....like.....launching a War, based on LIES.

​

And yet after 7 years you have absolutely no evidence anyone lied about Iraq Or Afghanistan, in fact you have 3 different Congressional panels declaring no lying occurred at all. Go figure.

 

[R.C. Christian]

I wonder at one point someone who kills a politician is anything BUT insane? I wonder what tyranny it will take for that kind of behaviour to be condoned? Certainly more than what this liberal who moved to the center ever deserved. The man was obviously disturbed.