Memorial Day Truth

[thereisnospoon]

"Facing the truth is hard to do, especially the truth about ourselves.

"So Americans have been sorely pressed to come to terms with the fact that after 9/11 our government began to torture people, and did so in defiance of domestic and international law.

"Most of us haven’t come to terms with what that meant, or means today, but we must reckon with torture, the torture done in our name, allegedly for our safety.

"It’s no secret such cruelty occurred; it’s just the truth we’d rather not think about.

"But Memorial Day is a good time to make the effort.

On Memorial Day Weekend, America Reckons with Torture | Common Dreams

Recently the current president of Brazil who was imprisoned and tortured repeatedly by the military dictators who ruled her country for 25 years has commented on Brazil's commission investigating the dictatorship: "'We are not moved by revenge, hate or a desire to rewrite history. The need to know the full truth is what moves us.'"

"In other words, 'You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.'"

Fuck common dreams. That is a leftist liberal blog.

 

[thereisnospoon]

Water boarding is cool!

Maybe Dick Cheney should try it?

You should think about the terrorists that were caught and the terrorist acts that were stopped because of the tactics you left over peacenik commie fucks abhor.
You people have the temerity to demand freedom then criticize the methods by which that freedom is provided.
You cannot have it both ways, comrade.

 

[Salt Jones]

Water boarding is cool!

Maybe Dick Cheney should try it?

You should think about the terrorists that were caught and the terrorist acts that were stopped because of the tactics you left over peacenik commie fucks abhor.
You people have the temerity to demand freedom then criticize the methods by which that freedom is provided.
You cannot have it both ways, comrade.

Are you ok with killing a terrorist's wife and kids to get him to reveal a plot?

 

[georgephillip]

Of course he is...........but haters gonna hate. These people are so miserable they cant get out of their own way. Losers who are jealous of everybody elses success and want to blame all their fucked up personal decisions on somebody else. There are a couple of dozen hard core members of this club on this board. Where do they matter in the real world? Only on this Godforsaken website in the internet galaxy. Spend 16 hours straight sitting in front of their PC trying desperately to get away from the reality of their miserable lot in life.

And it frightens the HELL outta me that they take up the cause of those that would butcher and murder and then whine of our tactics to defend our own liberty.

It's mind-boggling.

He's spouting what he learned in school. he gave me an agreement to zing me about WW 2 and I looked and it was done in 1905. He doesnt question his liberal masters at all. No original thought. he just spouts theories and numbers that he's told. I looked up the water treatment thing and came up with this.. Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
her website is here: HEATHER WOKUSCH ::... Yeah she's a great source.

She knows more than Rush.

"Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.

"Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people. An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled "Strategic Attack," chillingly explains: "The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River."

"A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"

Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq

I suppose brain-dead dittos would've had no problem with 1410 US water treatment plants being blown up by Saddam, right?

 

[The T]

And it frightens the HELL outta me that they take up the cause of those that would butcher and murder and then whine of our tactics to defend our own liberty.

It's mind-boggling.

He's spouting what he learned in school. he gave me an agreement to zing me about WW 2 and I looked and it was done in 1905. He doesnt question his liberal masters at all. No original thought. he just spouts theories and numbers that he's told. I looked up the water treatment thing and came up with this.. Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
her website is here: HEATHER WOKUSCH ::... Yeah she's a great source.

She knows more than Rush.

"Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.

"Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people. An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled "Strategic Attack," chillingly explains: "The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River."

"A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"

Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq

I suppose brain-dead dittos would've had no problem with 1410 US water treatment plants being blown up by Saddam, right?

Why divert with Limbaugh Georgie?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Well to paraphrase...

When you sacrifice principles in exchange for security, you'll end up with neither.

Really? Forget it. Better off living under the threat of terror than wipe it out with extreme prejudice.
The problem those on the left have is they are controlled by their feelings.
Liberals do not think. They emote.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This is a different kind of war....it takes different measures.

And if you think there wasn't torture by Americans in other wars...then you're just naive.

Yeah, and you're naive to think that there wasn't rape of women by Americans in other wars. I'm not sure what your point is.

Start a thread on that issue.
You got that, Mr non sequitur?

 

[thereisnospoon]

Water boarding is cool!

And it isn't torture.

Have you tried it?

Do you believe it's "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment.?"

Enemy combatants are not subject to the Geneva Conventions, nor are they protected by the US Constitution.

 

[thereisnospoon]

This is a different kind of war....it takes different measures.

And if you think there wasn't torture by Americans in other wars...then you're just naive.

"After the Spanish American War of 1898 in the Philippines, the U.S. army used waterboarding, called the 'water cure' at the time. It is not clear where this practice came from; it probably was adopted from the Filipinos, who themselves adopted it from the Spanish.[105] Reports of 'cruelties' from soldiers stationed in the Philippines led to Senate hearings on U.S. activity there."

IMHO, this is just another war for empire that can't be fought without resorting to cruel, inhuman and degrading methods. It would stop tomorrow if the rich were required to risk their lives and the lives of their children first.

Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ahh..Class warfare...
Your opinion is duly noted.

 

[Salt Jones]

This is a different kind of war....it takes different measures.

And if you think there wasn't torture by Americans in other wars...then you're just naive.

"After the Spanish American War of 1898 in the Philippines, the U.S. army used waterboarding, called the 'water cure' at the time. It is not clear where this practice came from; it probably was adopted from the Filipinos, who themselves adopted it from the Spanish.[105] Reports of 'cruelties' from soldiers stationed in the Philippines led to Senate hearings on U.S. activity there."

IMHO, this is just another war for empire that can't be fought without resorting to cruel, inhuman and degrading methods. It would stop tomorrow if the rich were required to risk their lives and the lives of their children first.

Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ahh..Class warfare...
Your opinion is duly noted.

Are you ok with killing a terrorist's wife and kids to get him to reveal a plot?

 

[thereisnospoon]

My and my buds waterboard for fun on slow days.

It shows.

"Waterboarding can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation..."

Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And terrorists can cause buildings to collapse, subway trains to be blown up and people to be incinerated by jet fuel.
Wanna tack a crack at that, genius?

 

[Salt Jones]

My and my buds waterboard for fun on slow days.

It shows.

"Waterboarding can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation..."

Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And terrorists can cause buildings to collapse, subway trains to be blown up and people to be incinerated by jet fuel.
Wanna tack a crack at that, genius?

Again "Are you ok with killing a terrorist's wife and kids to get him to reveal a plot"?

 

[georgephillip]

He's spouting what he learned in school. he gave me an agreement to zing me about WW 2 and I looked and it was done in 1905. He doesnt question his liberal masters at all. No original thought. he just spouts theories and numbers that he's told. I looked up the water treatment thing and came up with this.. Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
her website is here: HEATHER WOKUSCH ::... Yeah she's a great source.

She knows more than Rush.

"Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.

"Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people. An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled "Strategic Attack," chillingly explains: "The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River."

"A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"

Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq

I suppose brain-dead dittos would've had no problem with 1410 US water treatment plants being blown up by Saddam, right?

Why divert with Limbaugh Georgie?

"(T)he 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people. An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack'...

No diversion necessary, T.
What we've done in Iraq since '91 is one long damn war crime.

I suspect that once the US dollar no longer serves as the world's reserve currency we won't be able to borrow enough money to inflict this level of misery on Muslims half-way around the world.

That leaves Mexico, right?

Will you then apologize for the mass murder of Americans by the US military?

Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq

 

[thereisnospoon]

Lets take the "torture" debate to an even closer-to-home example.

Each of you answer honestly.

Lets say the local Police Department has caught a person. And that person, along with another man, kidnapped your daughter. Their plan was to rape her for a week, then slowly kill her. Sick bastards, right? Well, they nabbed one of them on the 2nd day. The other guy? He's still out there, with your daughter, in an unknown abandoned building. Where? He wont say. His partner still has 5 days of fun left til they kill her.

What would you be willing to allow the cops to do to get that information? Beat him? Waterboard him? Deprive him of sleep and food? Threaten him?

Or would your morals say "NO, even though it may save my daughter, I cannot let the cops go beyond our principles. I'll take the sacrifice."

Of course not.

Different issue. Civilians have Constitutional rights. The 8th amendment is a guarantee against cruel and unusual punishment.
Enemy combatants have no such rights.

 

[georgephillip]

This is a different kind of war....it takes different measures.

And if you think there wasn't torture by Americans in other wars...then you're just naive.

"After the Spanish American War of 1898 in the Philippines, the U.S. army used waterboarding, called the 'water cure' at the time. It is not clear where this practice came from; it probably was adopted from the Filipinos, who themselves adopted it from the Spanish.[105] Reports of 'cruelties' from soldiers stationed in the Philippines led to Senate hearings on U.S. activity there."

IMHO, this is just another war for empire that can't be fought without resorting to cruel, inhuman and degrading methods. It would stop tomorrow if the rich were required to risk their lives and the lives of their children first.

Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ahh..Class warfare...
Your opinion is duly noted.

I suppose you've never noticed how some people get filthy rich from wars they never fight in?
All war is class war.

 

[Liability]

"After the Spanish American War of 1898 in the Philippines, the U.S. army used waterboarding, called the 'water cure' at the time. It is not clear where this practice came from; it probably was adopted from the Filipinos, who themselves adopted it from the Spanish.[105] Reports of 'cruelties' from soldiers stationed in the Philippines led to Senate hearings on U.S. activity there."

IMHO, this is just another war for empire that can't be fought without resorting to cruel, inhuman and degrading methods. It would stop tomorrow if the rich were required to risk their lives and the lives of their children first.

Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ahh..Class warfare...
Your opinion is duly noted.

I suppose you've never noticed how some people get filthy rich from wars they never fight in?
All war is class war.

Spoken like a true douche nozzle, you douche nozzle.

 

[georgephillip]

"Facing the truth is hard to do, especially the truth about ourselves.

"So Americans have been sorely pressed to come to terms with the fact that after 9/11 our government began to torture people, and did so in defiance of domestic and international law.

"Most of us haven’t come to terms with what that meant, or means today, but we must reckon with torture, the torture done in our name, allegedly for our safety.

"It’s no secret such cruelty occurred; it’s just the truth we’d rather not think about.

"But Memorial Day is a good time to make the effort.

On Memorial Day Weekend, America Reckons with Torture | Common Dreams

Recently the current president of Brazil who was imprisoned and tortured repeatedly by the military dictators who ruled her country for 25 years has commented on Brazil's commission investigating the dictatorship: "'We are not moved by revenge, hate or a desire to rewrite history. The need to know the full truth is what moves us.'"

"In other words, 'You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.'"

Fuck common dreams. That is a leftist liberal blog.

Apparently you're not capable of refuting any content found in the "leftist liberal blog."

Try this one:

"The best known of all the prisons remains Guantanamo on the southeast coast of Cuba. For years, the United States naval base there seemed like an isolated vestige of the Cold War – defying the occasional threat from Fidel Castro to shut it down. But since 9/11, Guantanamo – Gitmo – has been a detention center, an extraterritorial island jail considered outside the jurisdiction of U.S. civilian courts and rules of evidence.

"Like the notorious Room 101 of George Orwell’s 1984, the chamber that contains the thing each victim fears the most to make them confess, Guantanamo’s name has become synonymous with torture. Nearly 800 people have been held there. George W. Bush eventually released 500 of them, sometimes after years of confinement and cruelty.

"Barack Obama has freed 67, but 169 remain, even though the president pledged to close the Guantanamo prison within a year of his inauguration. Now, forty-six are so dangerous, our government says, they will be held indefinitely, without trial."

On Memorial Day Weekend, America Reckons with Torture | Common Dreams

 

[racewright]

She knows more than Rush.

"Article 54 of the Geneva Conventions clearly states that destroying or rendering useless items essential to the survival of civilian populations is illegal under international law and a war crime.

"Hard then to explain the 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people. An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled "Strategic Attack," chillingly explains: "The electrical attacks proved extremely effective ... The loss of electricity shut down the capital's water treatment plants and led to a public health crisis from raw sewage dumped in the Tigris River."

"A second US Defense Intelligence Agency document, 1991's 'Iraq Water Treatment Vulnerabilities,' predicted how sanctions would then be used to prevent Iraq from getting the equipment and chemicals necessary for water purification, which would result in 'a shortage of pure drinking water for much of the population' leading to 'increased incidences, if not epidemics, of disease.'"

Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq

I suppose brain-dead dittos would've had no problem with 1410 US water treatment plants being blown up by Saddam, right?

Why divert with Limbaugh Georgie?

"(T)he 1991 US bombing of electrical grids that powered 1,410 water-treatment plants for Iraq's 22 million people. An excerpt from a 1998 US Air Force document, entitled 'Strategic Attack'...

No diversion necessary, T.
What we've done in Iraq since '91 is one long damn war crime.

I suspect that once the US dollar no longer serves as the world's reserve currency we won't be able to borrow enough money to inflict this level of misery on Muslims half-way around the world.

That leaves Mexico, right?

Will you then apologize for the mass murder of Americans by the US military?

Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq

Unbelievable Wake up and smell the coffee WAR IS A CRIME why ya think it is always fought NOT HERE. What you pinko's need (yea a 60"s thing) is a good old war in your backyard like maybe Mass.,Vermont, New York New, Jersey, Maine and several other Blue states and then lets see if you still think following geneva rules is still a good idea.
There should be a RULE if we fight there we now own it.
Take its resources and call it a state. No more free lunch--these countries like many libs are nothing but a bunch of MOOCHERS.

Vietnam Vet

 

[Mr. Shaman]

"Facing the truth is hard to do, especially the truth about ourselves.

"So Americans have been sorely pressed to come to terms with the fact that after 9/11 our government began to torture people, and did so in defiance of domestic and international law.

"Most of us haven’t come to terms with what that meant, or means today, but we must reckon with torture, the torture done in our name, allegedly for our safety."

....And, as usual......we find-out.....we were fed a line o' BULLSHIT.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1ivoWW1-4U]The interrogator, Pt. 1 - YouTube[/ame]
*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0iaNMRjkno]The interrogator, Pt. 2 - YouTube[/ame]
*
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-wC8TYNOq0]Keith & The Torture Timeline - Former Interrogator Matthew Alexander Interview 4/23/09 - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[georgephillip]

Ahh..Class warfare...
Your opinion is duly noted.

I suppose you've never noticed how some people get filthy rich from wars they never fight in?
All war is class war.

Spoken like a true douche nozzle, you douche nozzle.

When are you leaving for Yemen, Sissie?