Memorial Day Truth

[buckeye45_73]

The civil war prison camps Andersonville and camp Douglas, the Bataan death march, the Nazi concentration camps, the Hanoi Hilton these are examples of real torture to call how Al-Queda prisoners were treated as torture is a insult to every person who endured these hell holes as well as anyone who ever suffered the horrors of true torture.

Perhaps Fascist regime torture is better rated than American in his mind?

Maybe it's worth mentioning how Memorial Day as we know it began as homage to those who died in the US Civil War.

I'm guessing some Japanese were hanged for Bataan.
Some Nazis were definitely hanged for Auschwitz.
Those confined to the Hanoi Hilton deserved every thing that happened to them.
Those who planned and profited from the US invasion of Vietnam deserved to spend the rest of their lives in prison for their war crimes.
And so do those who planned and profited from the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

wait you're GUESSING they hung the Japanese for Bataan. And you take yourself seriously. I dont know if they were or weren't but if you take violence so seriously, you wouldnt be so flippant with that comment.

Wow it's like a list of crazy. SOME Nazis were hung, and it makes it ok, wow you are insane to compare Iraq with Auschwitz, Bataan, and the Hanoi Hilton. But you still havent answered the buring questions.

1) how many people die in an invasion of Japan (your treaty was from 1905, do you check facts?)
2) Are spies covered in the geneva convention?
3) And A link for the water treatment plan?
4) And do you think crazy muslim terrorists who strap bombs to children to blow up jews, really care about Iraqi children?
5( oh and a new one, IF the US could have stopped Auscwitz, Bataan and the hanoi hilton, should they have?
I'll be looking forward to your responses.

 

[Trajan]

"Facing the truth is hard to do, especially the truth about ourselves.

"So Americans have been sorely pressed to come to terms with the fact that after 9/11 our government began to torture people, and did so in defiance of domestic and international law.

"Most of us haven’t come to terms with what that meant, or means today, but we must reckon with torture, the torture done in our name, allegedly for our safety.

"It’s no secret such cruelty occurred; it’s just the truth we’d rather not think about.

"But Memorial Day is a good time to make the effort.

On Memorial Day Weekend, America Reckons with Torture | Common Dreams

Recently the current president of Brazil who was imprisoned and tortured repeatedly by the military dictators who ruled her country for 25 years has commented on Brazil's commission investigating the dictatorship: "'We are not moved by revenge, hate or a desire to rewrite history. The need to know the full truth is what moves us.'"

"In other words, 'You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.'"

the only people 'reckoning' with this today are dopes who live the thwe proggie bubble that feel today of all days is a good day to burp this shit up like they are revealing some great truth, truth is they need the audience of the other bubble heads who also lack class, taste, but posses the similar over abundance of diffidence that requires a holiday to get attention.

 

[georgephillip]

Great Ole Ike disagreed, but it wasnt his ass on the line. So how many people do you think would have died in a battle. In The atomic bombs, we killed about 500, 000. And it shocked enough people they havent been used since, but again invading Japan, what , 1000 casulties? I mean Japanese pilots ran their planes into our ships, so their will was easily broken (That was sarcastic) So you think they would have just let us come on in? You realize how strong their will was, it took TWO Abombs, the first one did NOT convince them. Are you playing with a full deck, but I still want you to estimate the casulty numbers (and there MIGHT have been a few civillians, just saying). Lets hear it.

Japan made it clear they would surrender when Russia agreed to participate in the Allied invasion.
Does the Taft-Katsura Agreement ring any historical bells for you?
(Ask Rush if confused)

Wait, so Japan was going to surender? because They wanted Russia to help? You cant be that naive, is that what Stalin told you?

you know I look these things up, here is what I found?
Taft
1905 seems a little early to me and it was Teddy not FDR President oh wait Truman dropped the bomb.

Son you need to learn a little outside of the university, spouting propaganda is noway to go through life.

Japan was willing to surrender because they feared a Russian invasion.
The outcome of the 1905 conflict between the two nations was the reason why.

Probably for the first time since the invention of firearms the white boys got their asses whipped in 1905, and the last thing the Japanese wanted was Russian troops occupying their countryside.

 

[blackhawk]

The civil war prison camps Andersonville and camp Douglas, the Bataan death march, the Nazi concentration camps, the Hanoi Hilton these are examples of real torture to call how Al-Queda prisoners were treated as torture is a insult to every person who endured these hell holes as well as anyone who ever suffered the horrors of true torture.

Perhaps Fascist regime torture is better rated than American in his mind?

Maybe it's worth mentioning how Memorial Day as we know it began as homage to those who died in the US Civil War.

I'm guessing some Japanese were hanged for Bataan.
Some Nazis were definitely hanged for Auschwitz.
Those confined to the Hanoi Hilton deserved every thing that happened to them.
Those who planned and profited from the US invasion of Vietnam deserved to spend the rest of their lives in prison for their war crimes.
And so do those who planned and profited from the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Wow that is truly one of the dumbest post I have seen on here in some time and believe me that is saying something.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Have you tried it?

Do you believe it's "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment.?"

I'll concede that it is torture. However, scumbag terrorists who don't play by the rules of war deserve to be tortured.

Care to state your definitions of "terror" and "torture"?

Well it's a complex issue, but I'll break it down for ya. I'll do terror then when you answer my questions, I'll break down torture, deal?

Terror is using any means to scare people to do what you want. Is that simple enough? now terrorist is a little different, because of the context. normally it would be anyone who employs terror, but see Right thinking people (key word thinking) understand the difference between just anyone who employs terror (such as a rapist) and a crazy jihadist muslim that uses any convienent excuse to kill jews and americans (ie terrorist) and does so with any means, INCLUDING.....drumroll please.......TORTURE!!!!! So in essence we are killing people who torture, so you should be happy!!!

 

[The T]

Perhaps Fascist regime torture is better rated than American in his mind?

Maybe it's worth mentioning how Memorial Day as we know it began as homage to those who died in the US Civil War.

I'm guessing some Japanese were hanged for Bataan.
Some Nazis were definitely hanged for Auschwitz.
Those confined to the Hanoi Hilton deserved every thing that happened to them.
Those who planned and profited from the US invasion of Vietnam deserved to spend the rest of their lives in prison for their war crimes.
And so do those who planned and profited from the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Wow that is truly one of the dumbest post I have seen on here in some time and believe me that is saying something.

Georgie has joined the Statist Convention of controtionists.

 

[The T]

"Facing the truth is hard to do, especially the truth about ourselves.

"So Americans have been sorely pressed to come to terms with the fact that after 9/11 our government began to torture people, and did so in defiance of domestic and international law.

"Most of us haven’t come to terms with what that meant, or means today, but we must reckon with torture, the torture done in our name, allegedly for our safety.

"It’s no secret such cruelty occurred; it’s just the truth we’d rather not think about.

"But Memorial Day is a good time to make the effort.

On Memorial Day Weekend, America Reckons with Torture | Common Dreams

Recently the current president of Brazil who was imprisoned and tortured repeatedly by the military dictators who ruled her country for 25 years has commented on Brazil's commission investigating the dictatorship: "'We are not moved by revenge, hate or a desire to rewrite history. The need to know the full truth is what moves us.'"

"In other words, 'You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.'"

the only people 'reckoning' with this today are dopes who live the thwe proggie bubble that feel today of all days is a good day to burp this shit up like they are revealing some great truth, truth is they need the audience of the other bubble heads who also lack class, taste, but posses the similar over abundance of diffidence that requires a holiday to get attention.

Had Georgie ever been taught correct from BIRTH...he wouldn't be posting such tripe against liberty. and liberty loving people...instead he posts excuses for history's tyrants and suppots it.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Japan made it clear they would surrender when Russia agreed to participate in the Allied invasion.
Does the Taft-Katsura Agreement ring any historical bells for you?
(Ask Rush if confused)

Wait, so Japan was going to surender? because They wanted Russia to help? You cant be that naive, is that what Stalin told you?

you know I look these things up, here is what I found?
Taft
1905 seems a little early to me and it was Teddy not FDR President oh wait Truman dropped the bomb.

Son you need to learn a little outside of the university, spouting propaganda is noway to go through life.

Japan was willing to surrender because they feared a Russian invasion.
The outcome of the 1905 conflict between the two nations was the reason why.

Probably for the first time since the invention of firearms the white boys got their asses whipped in 1905, and the last thing the Japanese wanted was Russian troops occupying their countryside.

No sir, you didnt state that or imply that originally, you said there was an "agreement" between the US and Japan to let the Russians in on the surrender, so why would they want that? A mortal enemy being pressent at their surrender and possible payback. Sorry, no dice, that is illogical, captain. And IF they were willing to surrender, why did it take two, yeah I said TWO bombs?


and white boys? So you're a minority? Ahhhhhhh so now it makes alot more sense. But I believe the white boys as you so eloquently put it, lost at Bighorn, did they not (dropping that knowledge bomb on ya!!!!) So are you a Kenyan,( born in Hawaii of course) as well?

 

[buckeye45_73]

All I can say is when it comes to Georgie's arguements, I love the smell of Napalm in the morning.

 

[georgephillip]

Ok so you suppored Iraq invading and taking over Kuwait...and you know why they did......drumroll please......OIL DING DING DING. We liberated Kuwait and nobody argues that action, we kicked them out and didnt invade Iraq, so how did we kill so many Iraqi children. And you're arguing THAT war, seriously are you Ooooh? He had the same stupid arguements. You're actually arguing THAT war, the one EVERYBODY agreed upon (and I'll explain everybody since you're a liberal, All of Europe, East Asia, Africa and the middle east.) So you're saying some crazy wingnut faction of Islam was justified to kill our citizens, because of THAT war? So you're saying that people who have KIDS (aka CHILDREN) and mothers and fathers strap bombs on blow up jews and americans, that they cared enough about Iraqi children (ASSUMING you're correct) to blow up the World Trade Center. WOW I'm dealing with a total liberal, US Bashing commie, or someone completely insane, oh wait they're the same thing.

Now explain why it was necessary to bomb water treatment plants in Baghdad to expel Iraqi conscripts from Kuwait? It wouldn't have anything to do with the profit margin on each bomb, would it, Rover. Even inbred cons should know 46,000 Iraqi children aged five years or less were not playing on the roofs of those water treatment plants when the heroic USAF pilots accomplished their missions; the children died months later from drinking contaminated water.

Makes you feel like flappin a damn flag, don't it?

So what you're saying is we bombed water treatment plants in 1991 so we could use more bombs and fund the military industrial complex? Could I get a link on that one, I cant wait to see the source.
I mean you keep spouting this academic liberal crap. Most people call it propaganda.

Most people on the right call what I'm spouting propaganda.
Most on the left would apply the same label to your posts.
Tell me what source you would consider credible regarding US bombing of Iraqi water treatment plants?

The Fire This Time is where I first found this material.

"This book is an angry although measured polemical outcry over the U.S. 'great victory' in the Gulf War of 1991. Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney-General and long-time international peace activist, asserts that, in actuality, the Gulf War was not really about reversing Iraq's aggression against Kuwait, but rather to 'control nationalist challenges to U.S. interests in the area.'"

 

[Liability]

Now explain why it was necessary to bomb water treatment plants in Baghdad to expel Iraqi conscripts from Kuwait? It wouldn't have anything to do with the profit margin on each bomb, would it, Rover. Even inbred cons should know 46,000 Iraqi children aged five years or less were not playing on the roofs of those water treatment plants when the heroic USAF pilots accomplished their missions; the children died months later from drinking contaminated water.

Makes you feel like flappin a damn flag, don't it?

So what you're saying is we bombed water treatment plants in 1991 so we could use more bombs and fund the military industrial complex? Could I get a link on that one, I cant wait to see the source.
I mean you keep spouting this academic liberal crap. Most people call it propaganda.

Most people on the right call what I'm spouting propaganda.
Most on the left would apply the same label to your posts.
Tell me what source you would consider credible regarding US bombing of Iraqi water treatment plants?

The Fire This Time is where I first found this material.

"This book is an angry although measured polemical outcry over the U.S. 'great victory' in the Gulf War of 1991. Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney-General and long-time international peace activist, asserts that, in actuality, the Gulf War was not really about reversing Iraq's aggression against Kuwait, but rather to 'control nationalist challenges to U.S. interests in the area.'"

Hey stupid. It's Ramsey Fucking Clark, you dope.

He can speculate all the fuck he wants. His conjecture is not the same as "fact." If anything, the fact that HE maintains it is a useful clue that it's false.

 

[georgephillip]

Water boarding is cool!

But it's not torture. So much for georgieporgie's OP bullshit.

It's not torture when someone else is the victim:

"Waterboarding is a form of torture in which water is poured over the face of an immobilized captive, thus causing the individual to experience the sensation of drowning.

"Waterboarding can cause extreme pain, dry drowning, damage to lungs, brain damage from oxygen deprivation, other physical injuries including broken bones due to struggling against restraints, lasting psychological damage and death.[1]

"Adverse physical consequences can manifest themselves months after the event, while psychological effects can last for years.[2] The term water board torture appears in press reports as early as 1976.[3]"

Possibly your brain damage can be explained by dry drowning?

 

[georgephillip]

Waterboarding - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[The T]

Give it up Georgie. You have ZERO argument with people who's liberty is threatened by those YOU enjoy paying hoamge to.

Enough!

 

[buckeye45_73]

Now explain why it was necessary to bomb water treatment plants in Baghdad to expel Iraqi conscripts from Kuwait? It wouldn't have anything to do with the profit margin on each bomb, would it, Rover. Even inbred cons should know 46,000 Iraqi children aged five years or less were not playing on the roofs of those water treatment plants when the heroic USAF pilots accomplished their missions; the children died months later from drinking contaminated water.

Makes you feel like flappin a damn flag, don't it?

So what you're saying is we bombed water treatment plants in 1991 so we could use more bombs and fund the military industrial complex? Could I get a link on that one, I cant wait to see the source.
I mean you keep spouting this academic liberal crap. Most people call it propaganda.

Most people on the right call what I'm spouting propaganda.
Most on the left would apply the same label to your posts.
Tell me what source you would consider credible regarding US bombing of Iraqi water treatment plants?

The Fire This Time is where I first found this material.

"This book is an angry although measured polemical outcry over the U.S. 'great victory' in the Gulf War of 1991. Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney-General and long-time international peace activist, asserts that, in actuality, the Gulf War was not really about reversing Iraq's aggression against Kuwait, but rather to 'control nationalist challenges to U.S. interests in the area.'"

It's propanganda, because you make stuff up or parrot other made up crap, you dont have any context to it.

Wait I just caught it, Ramsey Clark is your source. Tell me you're joking. He's been a discreditied, bitter ex politician.
Do you have a mainstream meadia article on the bombing? Someone cridtable. Ramsey Clark is like me quoting Rush Limbaugh for facts, I love Rush but I dont use him as a source.

He;s a peace activist that wanted Bush impeached for war crimes AND get this...he defended the Serbs, INCLUDING Milosavic..... and you think he's not a crazy nutjob loon and even worse that he's credible. Did you hear he was a good source at college?

And I still want answers to my question, and then I'll school ya on torture, like I have on everything else. Oh how'd you like the one on terrorist, was it easy enough to follow?

 

[georgephillip]

Are you just stupid or just not that bright? You didnt even get close to my question. This is your comback? To use the DOD definiton and then call the joint cheifs, terrorists.
WOW, I got me a real live berkley nutjob. So Rush Limbaugh was right, people as crazy as you do exist(I thought he was making up these uber wacko leftists) Whoooohooo boys, lets get em! So you're one of the people that thinks blacks CANT be racist and communism has never been tried, Ok.

I'll need to go slow on this, so again spies are considered very low and dont have protection, did you understand that? Confirm and we'll go further.

"They are lower than spies"
Says who?
Got a link.

Instead of slowing down, tell me how many civilians the US military has killed since 1945.
Then reconcile that number with Grave Breaches:

"extensive destruction and appropriation of property not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly."

What does Rush tell you about Fallujah?

Before we get to that. Do you agree spies are not covered by the treaty? I mean I have to go slow, becasue you always bring up other crap that is patently false. So lets stick with it, Spies are not military and can be tortured, correct?

Civilians are not military.
Are you saying they can be tortured?
Why are you deflecting from US war crimes by raising the red herring of spies?

 

[georgephillip]

Because Mao, Stalin, Hitler, et all, weren't killing, maiming, and displacing millions of innocent human beings on the opposite side of the planet from their home countries and my taxes weren't supporting their crimes. Why do you regularly ignore the crimes of the greatest purveyor of violence in this world today?

Are you brainwashed?

No dumbass...they were being killed BY those regimes merely for wanting LIBERTY and being vocal about it or they were SUSPECTED of wanting it.

YOU are an ASSHOLE.

Of course he is...........but haters gonna hate. These people are so miserable they cant get out of their own way. Losers who are jealous of everybody elses success and want to blame all their fucked up personal decisions on somebody else. There are a couple of dozen hard core members of this club on this board. Where do they matter in the real world? Only on this Godforsaken website in the internet galaxy. Spend 16 hours straight sitting in front of their PC trying desperately to get away from the reality of their miserable lot in life.


The one common theme in all of the America haters? All have very little in terms of a meaningful life.

Tell us all about your meaningful existence.
Then tell us how many hours you spent on this board today.

 

[georgephillip]

No dumbass...they were being killed BY those regimes merely for wanting LIBERTY and being vocal about it or they were SUSPECTED of wanting it.

YOU are an ASSHOLE.

Of course he is...........but haters gonna hate. These people are so miserable they cant get out of their own way. Losers who are jealous of everybody elses success and want to blame all their fucked up personal decisions on somebody else. There are a couple of dozen hard core members of this club on this board. Where do they matter in the real world? Only on this Godforsaken website in the internet galaxy. Spend 16 hours straight sitting in front of their PC trying desperately to get away from the reality of their miserable lot in life.

And it frightens the HELL outta me that they take up the cause of those that would butcher and murder and then whine of our tactics to defend our own liberty.

It's mind-boggling.

"OUR TACTICS" have maimed, murdered, displaced and incarcerated millions of innocent Iraqis since 2003. If you had any humanity, that would lead you to question the motives of US foreign policy.

 

[The T]

Of course he is...........but haters gonna hate. These people are so miserable they cant get out of their own way. Losers who are jealous of everybody elses success and want to blame all their fucked up personal decisions on somebody else. There are a couple of dozen hard core members of this club on this board. Where do they matter in the real world? Only on this Godforsaken website in the internet galaxy. Spend 16 hours straight sitting in front of their PC trying desperately to get away from the reality of their miserable lot in life.

And it frightens the HELL outta me that they take up the cause of those that would butcher and murder and then whine of our tactics to defend our own liberty.

It's mind-boggling.

"OUR TACTICS" have maimed, murdered, displaced and incarcerated millions of innocent Iraqis since 2003. If you had any humanity, that would lead you to question the motives of US foreign policy.

Uh-uh...as thier fearless leaders didn't do LONG before we ever got there?

Stop. Just STOP.

 

[Salt Jones]

Water boarding is cool!

And it isn't torture.

That's what it was called when we had to watch those Geneva Convention/POW videos before we deployed to the Middle East, when I was in the military. I last time I watched that series of videos and did the training was 2002.