Memorial Day Truth

[georgephillip]

do you just speak what your prosfessor tells you to? What civillians? Sorry when you have a war going on people may get hurt, kinda like when al queda declared war on 9/11, but you dont care about our civillians do ya, maybe because it was wall street? MAybe OWS was behind 9/11...we need to investigate that for the kooks out there.

hired killers? accidental birth, wow you got the commie university lingo down. Lets toss out socioeconomic, communism has never been tried, and hey, I found this article

John's List of Liberal Code Phrases


Just repeat the liberal side of it.

What civilians?

"These results provide strong evidence that the Gulf war and trade sanctions caused a threefold increase in mortality among Iraqi children under five years of age. We estimate that an excess of more than 46,900 children died between January and August 1991. (N Engl J Med 1992;327:931–6."

MMS: Error

Do ya think killing children for money thousands of miles from New York might kinda explain our civilian deaths on 911?

Ok so you suppored Iraq invading and taking over Kuwait...and you know why they did......drumroll please......OIL DING DING DING. We liberated Kuwait and nobody argues that action, we kicked them out and didnt invade Iraq, so how did we kill so many Iraqi children. And you're arguing THAT war, seriously are you Ooooh? He had the same stupid arguements. You're actually arguing THAT war, the one EVERYBODY agreed upon (and I'll explain everybody since you're a liberal, All of Europe, East Asia, Africa and the middle east.) So you're saying some crazy wingnut faction of Islam was justified to kill our citizens, because of THAT war? So you're saying that people who have KIDS (aka CHILDREN) and mothers and fathers strap bombs on blow up jews and americans, that they cared enough about Iraqi children (ASSUMING you're correct) to blow up the World Trade Center. WOW I'm dealing with a total liberal, US Bashing commie, or someone completely insane, oh wait they're the same thing.

Now explain why it was necessary to bomb water treatment plants in Baghdad to expel Iraqi conscripts from Kuwait? It wouldn't have anything to do with the profit margin on each bomb, would it, Rover. Even inbred cons should know 46,000 Iraqi children aged five years or less were not playing on the roofs of those water treatment plants when the heroic USAF pilots accomplished their missions; the children died months later from drinking contaminated water.

Makes you feel like flappin a damn flag, don't it?

 

[bripat9643]

Water boarding is cool!

And it isn't torture.

Have you tried it?

Do you believe it's "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment.?"

I'll concede that it is torture. However, scumbag terrorists who don't play by the rules of war deserve to be tortured.

 

[The T]

Well to paraphrase...

When you sacrifice principles in exchange for security, you'll end up with neither.

Shitstain...are you plagerizing Franklin?

YOU don't even have it right...much less principles...YOU are one of the least principled people on these boards.

 

[buckeye45_73]

I'll bet that you are ignorant enough to think you own Ike, too.

"...I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to (Secretary of War Stimson) my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon ...no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives."

Dwight Eisenhower

The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb Copyright 1995 Gar Alperovitz

You know, you really should learn the definition of "own"

Maybe one day you'll be able to separate fact from propaganda.

Great Ole Ike disagreed, but it wasnt his ass on the line. So how many people do you think would have died in a battle. In The atomic bombs, we killed about 500, 000. And it shocked enough people they havent been used since, but again invading Japan, what , 1000 casulties? I mean Japanese pilots ran their planes into our ships, so their will was easily broken (That was sarcastic) So you think they would have just let us come on in? You realize how strong their will was, it took TWO Abombs, the first one did NOT convince them. Are you playing with a full deck, but I still want you to estimate the casulty numbers (and there MIGHT have been a few civillians, just saying). Lets hear it.

Japan made it clear they would surrender when Russia agreed to participate in the Allied invasion.
Does the Taft-Katsura Agreement ring any historical bells for you?
(Ask Rush if confused)

Wait, so Japan was going to surender? because They wanted Russia to help? You cant be that naive, is that what Stalin told you?

you know I look these things up, here is what I found?
Taft
1905 seems a little early to me and it was Teddy not FDR President oh wait Truman dropped the bomb.

Son you need to learn a little outside of the university, spouting propaganda is noway to go through life.

 

[georgephillip]

And george I explained the whole concpet of terrorism and why they can be tortured. They are lower than spies, and lets see what the Geneva convention has to say.
International Humanitarian Law - Fourth 1949 Geneva Convention
"' Article 29 '. -- A person can only be considered a spy when, acting clandestinely or on false pretences, he obtains or endeavours to obtain information in the zone of operations of a belligerent with the intention of communicating it to the hostile party.
Thus, soldiers not wearing a disguise who have penetrated into the zone of operations of the hostile army, for the purpose of obtaining information, are not considered spies. Similarly, the following are not considered spies: soldiers and civilians carrying out their mission openly, entrusted with the delivery of despatches intended either for their own army or for the enemy's army. To this class belong likewise persons sent in balloons for the purpose of carrying despatches and, generally, of maintaining communications between the different parts of an army or a territory."

So in other words, if you have a military uniform you're protected and if you dont it depends, but if you're a spy, you hope for a quick death (hence why you see them with cyanide capsules in the movies). Sio there is YOUR Geneva convention....I win....again

Try harder.

"The Department of Defense Dictionary of Military Terms defines terrorism as:

"The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological."

If "terrorists are lower than spies", what do you have in mind for the joint chiefs?

Are you just stupid or just not that bright? You didnt even get close to my question. This is your comback? To use the DOD definiton and then call the joint cheifs, terrorists.
WOW, I got me a real live berkley nutjob. So Rush Limbaugh was right, people as crazy as you do exist(I thought he was making up these uber wacko leftists) Whoooohooo boys, lets get em! So you're one of the people that thinks blacks CANT be racist and communism has never been tried, Ok.

I'll need to go slow on this, so again spies are considered very low and dont have protection, did you understand that? Confirm and we'll go further.

"They are lower than spies"
Says who?
Got a link.

Instead of slowing down, tell me how many civilians the US military has killed since 1945.
Then reconcile that number with Grave Breaches:

"extensive destruction and appropriation of property not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly."

What does Rush tell you about Fallujah?

 

[buckeye45_73]

What civilians?

"These results provide strong evidence that the Gulf war and trade sanctions caused a threefold increase in mortality among Iraqi children under five years of age. We estimate that an excess of more than 46,900 children died between January and August 1991. (N Engl J Med 1992;327:931–6."

MMS: Error

Do ya think killing children for money thousands of miles from New York might kinda explain our civilian deaths on 911?

Ok so you suppored Iraq invading and taking over Kuwait...and you know why they did......drumroll please......OIL DING DING DING. We liberated Kuwait and nobody argues that action, we kicked them out and didnt invade Iraq, so how did we kill so many Iraqi children. And you're arguing THAT war, seriously are you Ooooh? He had the same stupid arguements. You're actually arguing THAT war, the one EVERYBODY agreed upon (and I'll explain everybody since you're a liberal, All of Europe, East Asia, Africa and the middle east.) So you're saying some crazy wingnut faction of Islam was justified to kill our citizens, because of THAT war? So you're saying that people who have KIDS (aka CHILDREN) and mothers and fathers strap bombs on blow up jews and americans, that they cared enough about Iraqi children (ASSUMING you're correct) to blow up the World Trade Center. WOW I'm dealing with a total liberal, US Bashing commie, or someone completely insane, oh wait they're the same thing.

Now explain why it was necessary to bomb water treatment plants in Baghdad to expel Iraqi conscripts from Kuwait? It wouldn't have anything to do with the profit margin on each bomb, would it, Rover. Even inbred cons should know 46,000 Iraqi children aged five years or less were not playing on the roofs of those water treatment plants when the heroic USAF pilots accomplished their missions; the children died months later from drinking contaminated water.

Makes you feel like flappin a damn flag, don't it?

So what you're saying is we bombed water treatment plants in 1991 so we could use more bombs and fund the military industrial complex? Could I get a link on that one, I cant wait to see the source.
I mean you keep spouting this academic liberal crap. Most people call it propaganda.

 

[Liability]

Water boarding is cool!

But it's not torture. So much for georgieporgie's OP bullshit.

 

[buckeye45_73]

Try harder.

"The Department of Defense Dictionary of Military Terms defines terrorism as:

"The calculated use of unlawful violence or threat of unlawful violence to inculcate fear; intended to coerce or to intimidate governments or societies in the pursuit of goals that are generally political, religious, or ideological."

If "terrorists are lower than spies", what do you have in mind for the joint chiefs?

Are you just stupid or just not that bright? You didnt even get close to my question. This is your comback? To use the DOD definiton and then call the joint cheifs, terrorists.
WOW, I got me a real live berkley nutjob. So Rush Limbaugh was right, people as crazy as you do exist(I thought he was making up these uber wacko leftists) Whoooohooo boys, lets get em! So you're one of the people that thinks blacks CANT be racist and communism has never been tried, Ok.

I'll need to go slow on this, so again spies are considered very low and dont have protection, did you understand that? Confirm and we'll go further.

"They are lower than spies"
Says who?
Got a link.

Instead of slowing down, tell me how many civilians the US military has killed since 1945.
Then reconcile that number with Grave Breaches:

"extensive destruction and appropriation of property not justified by military necessity and carried out unlawfully and wantonly."

What does Rush tell you about Fallujah?

Before we get to that. Do you agree spies are not covered by the treaty? I mean I have to go slow, becasue you always bring up other crap that is patently false. So lets stick with it, Spies are not military and can be tortured, correct?

 

[skookerasbil]

WHY do you ignore the butchers like Mao, Stalin, Saddam, Hitler, Pol Pot, and a plethora of others and SIDE rather with them?

Because Mao, Stalin, Hitler, et all, weren't killing, maiming, and displacing millions of innocent human beings on the opposite side of the planet from their home countries and my taxes weren't supporting their crimes. Why do you regularly ignore the crimes of the greatest purveyor of violence in this world today?

Are you brainwashed?

No dumbass...they were being killed BY those regimes merely for wanting LIBERTY and being vocal about it or they were SUSPECTED of wanting it.

YOU are an ASSHOLE.

Of course he is...........but haters gonna hate. These people are so miserable they cant get out of their own way. Losers who are jealous of everybody elses success and want to blame all their fucked up personal decisions on somebody else. There are a couple of dozen hard core members of this club on this board. Where do they matter in the real world? Only on this Godforsaken website in the internet galaxy. Spend 16 hours straight sitting in front of their PC trying desperately to get away from the reality of their miserable lot in life.


The one common theme in all of the America haters? All have very little in terms of a meaningful life.

 

[The T]

Because Mao, Stalin, Hitler, et all, weren't killing, maiming, and displacing millions of innocent human beings on the opposite side of the planet from their home countries and my taxes weren't supporting their crimes. Why do you regularly ignore the crimes of the greatest purveyor of violence in this world today?

Are you brainwashed?

No dumbass...they were being killed BY those regimes merely for wanting LIBERTY and being vocal about it or they were SUSPECTED of wanting it.

YOU are an ASSHOLE.

Of course he is...........but haters gonna hate. These people are so miserable they cant get out of their own way. Losers who are jealous of everybody elses success and want to blame all their fucked up personal decisions on somebody else. There are a couple of dozen hard core members of this club on this board. Where do they matter in the real world? Only on this Godforsaken website in the internet galaxy. Spend 16 hours straight sitting in front of their PC trying desperately to get away from the reality of their miserable lot in life.

And it frightens the HELL outta me that they take up the cause of those that would butcher and murder and then whine of our tactics to defend our own liberty.

It's mind-boggling.

 

[masterp]

tru dat

 

[georgephillip]

The civil war prison camps Andersonville and camp Douglas, the Bataan death march, the Nazi concentration camps, the Hanoi Hilton these are examples of real torture to call how Al-Queda prisoners were treated as torture is a insult to every person who endured these hell holes as well as anyone who ever suffered the horrors of true torture.

Perhaps Fascist regime torture is better rated than American in his mind?

Maybe it's worth mentioning how Memorial Day as we know it began as homage to those who died in the US Civil War.

I'm guessing some Japanese were hanged for Bataan.
Some Nazis were definitely hanged for Auschwitz.
Those confined to the Hanoi Hilton deserved every thing that happened to them.
Those who planned and profited from the US invasion of Vietnam deserved to spend the rest of their lives in prison for their war crimes.
And so do those who planned and profited from the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

[buckeye45_73]

No dumbass...they were being killed BY those regimes merely for wanting LIBERTY and being vocal about it or they were SUSPECTED of wanting it.

YOU are an ASSHOLE.

Of course he is...........but haters gonna hate. These people are so miserable they cant get out of their own way. Losers who are jealous of everybody elses success and want to blame all their fucked up personal decisions on somebody else. There are a couple of dozen hard core members of this club on this board. Where do they matter in the real world? Only on this Godforsaken website in the internet galaxy. Spend 16 hours straight sitting in front of their PC trying desperately to get away from the reality of their miserable lot in life.

And it frightens the HELL outta me that they take up the cause of those that would butcher and murder and then whine of our tactics to defend our own liberty.

It's mind-boggling.

He's spouting what he learned in school. he gave me an agreement to zing me about WW 2 and I looked and it was done in 1905. He doesnt question his liberal masters at all. No original thought. he just spouts theories and numbers that he's told. I looked up the water treatment thing and came up with this.. Material Breach: US Crimes in Iraq
her website is here: HEATHER WOKUSCH ::... Yeah she's a great source.

 

[The T]

The civil war prison camps Andersonville and camp Douglas, the Bataan death march, the Nazi concentration camps, the Hanoi Hilton these are examples of real torture to call how Al-Queda prisoners were treated as torture is a insult to every person who endured these hell holes as well as anyone who ever suffered the horrors of true torture.

Perhaps Fascist regime torture is better rated than American in his mind?

Maybe it's worth mentioning how Memorial Day as we know it began as homage to those who died in the US Civil War.

I'm guessing some Japanese were hanged for Bataan.
Some Nazis were definitely hanged for Auschwitz.
Those confined to the Hanoi Hilton deserved every thing that happened to them.
Those who planned and profited from the US invasion of Vietnam deserved to spend the rest of their lives in prison for their war crimes.
And so do those who planned and profited from the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.

*YOU* are a DOLT...and dangerous.

 

[georgephillip]

WHY do you ignore the butchers like Mao, Stalin, Saddam, Hitler, Pol Pot, and a plethora of others and SIDE rather with them?

Because Mao, Stalin, Hitler, et all, weren't killing, maiming, and displacing millions of innocent human beings on the opposite side of the planet from their home countries and my taxes weren't supporting their crimes. Why do you regularly ignore the crimes of the greatest purveyor of violence in this world today?

Are you brainwashed?

No dumbass...they were being killed BY those regimes merely for wanting LIBERTY and being vocal about it or they were SUSPECTED of wanting it.

YOU are an ASSHOLE.

Are you clear on why/how Hitler came to power?
Had the US stayed out of WWI as a vast majority of Americans preferred there would have been an armistice signed without any of the economic reparations that destroyed the German economy and induced its politics to vomit forth Hitler.

I'm not aware of any potential for Chinese liberty offered by Mao or his opponent.
Perhaps you are?
Stalin was another murderous thug willing to sacrifice millions of innocent human lives in order to consolidate his power. He also had a little help from US capitalists anxious to exploit Russia's natural resources.

I still don't see why war crimes in Russia, Germany, and China absolve Americans from the responsibility of holding their government accountable for similar atrocities.

 

[The T]

Because Mao, Stalin, Hitler, et all, weren't killing, maiming, and displacing millions of innocent human beings on the opposite side of the planet from their home countries and my taxes weren't supporting their crimes. Why do you regularly ignore the crimes of the greatest purveyor of violence in this world today?

Are you brainwashed?

No dumbass...they were being killed BY those regimes merely for wanting LIBERTY and being vocal about it or they were SUSPECTED of wanting it.

YOU are an ASSHOLE.

Are you clear on why/how Hitler came to power?
Had the US stayed out of WWI as a vast majority of Americans preferred there would have been an armistice signed without any of the economic reparations that destroyed the German economy and induced its politics to vomit forth Hitler.

I'm not aware of any potential for Chinese liberty offered by Mao or his opponent.
Perhaps you are?
Stalin was another murderous thug willing to sacrifice millions of innocent human lives in order to consolidate his power. He also had a little help from US capitalists anxious to exploit Russia's natural resources.

I still don't see why war crimes in Russia, Germany, and China absolve Americans from the responsibility of holding their government accountable for similar atrocities.

Son? Yer sick. Seek help. Promptly.

 

[California Girl]

Water boarding is cool!

And it isn't torture.

Have you tried it?

Do you believe it's "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment.?"

No I haven't, but I know lots of guys who have.

No.

 

[georgephillip]

Well to paraphrase...

When you sacrifice principles in exchange for security, you'll end up with neither.

The quote actually goes like this:

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

- Benjamin Franklin -

I don't give a damn about your so-called "principles." I'm happy to torture foreign scumbags who murder and torture Americans.

Do you have an opinion on Americans who murder and torture?

"The United States occupation of Fallujah began in April 2003, one month following the beginning of the invasion of Iraq. In April 2003 United States forces opened fire on a group of demonstrators, claiming they were fired at. Fallujah's mayor, Taha Bedaiwi al-Alwani, said that two people were killed and 14 wounded.[1] Iraqi resistance fighters were able to claim the city a year later, before they were ousted by a siege and two re-invasions by US forces.

"These events caused widespread destruction and a humanitarian crisis in the city and surrounding areas. As of 2004, The city is largely ruined, with 60% of buildings damaged or destroyed, and the population at 30%–50% of pre-war levels."

How much profit did Wall $treet earn from the torture of Fallujah?

Fallujah during the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[georgephillip]

And it isn't torture.

Have you tried it?

Do you believe it's "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment.?"

I'll concede that it is torture. However, scumbag terrorists who don't play by the rules of war deserve to be tortured.

Care to state your definitions of "terror" and "torture"?

 

[California Girl]

Have you tried it?

Do you believe it's "cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment or punishment.?"

I'll concede that it is torture. However, scumbag terrorists who don't play by the rules of war deserve to be tortured.

Care to state your definitions of "terror" and "torture"?

Torture is reading the crap you write on USMB. Terror is thinking that there might be more than one that thinks like you do. Bear in mind, without those who gave their lives for this country.... you wouldn't have the freedom to regurgitate your bullshit.