Memo From Reality Based Community

Discussion in 'Law and Justice System' started by Orange_Juice, Jan 17, 2009.

  1. Orange_Juice
    Offline

    Orange_Juice Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,038
    Thanks Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +58
    Waterboarding Is Torture


    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/17/us/politics/17detain.html?th&emc=th
     
  2. alan1
    Offline

    alan1 USMB Mod Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    18,845
    Thanks Received:
    3,577
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Shoveling the ashes
    Ratings:
    +3,769
  3. Orange_Juice
    Offline

    Orange_Juice Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,038
    Thanks Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +58
    Actually, the incomming Attorney General said it
     
  4. alan1
    Offline

    alan1 USMB Mod Staff Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Messages:
    18,845
    Thanks Received:
    3,577
    Trophy Points:
    245
    Location:
    Shoveling the ashes
    Ratings:
    +3,769
    That makes it all better.
     
  5. Old Rocks
    Offline

    Old Rocks Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    46,471
    Thanks Received:
    5,416
    Trophy Points:
    1,840
    Location:
    Portland, Ore.
    Ratings:
    +10,313
    More importantly, he pointed out legal precidents for prosecuting those who ordered such actions.
     
  6. ABikerSailor
    Offline

    ABikerSailor Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2008
    Messages:
    31,379
    Thanks Received:
    4,804
    Trophy Points:
    1,140
    Location:
    Amarillo TX
    Ratings:
    +8,431
    Ummm......The Dark Lord of the Sith Cheney even admitted it......

    Cheney admits he ‘signed off’ on waterboarding of three Guantanamo prisoners

    Cheney admitted to it in an interview with the Washington Times, as well as admitted it on several news shows during interviews.

    Try again Bat Boy, there WAS torture involved.
     
  7. toomuchtime_
    Offline

    toomuchtime_ Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,534
    Thanks Received:
    708
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Ratings:
    +1,970
    Just what aspect of water boarding makes it torture? Water boarding produces no physical pain or damage; it aims to produce an intense anxiety reaction in the prisoner. So is it torture because it induces anxiety? Is it torture because it requires the prisoner be restrained?
     
  8. Orange_Juice
    Offline

    Orange_Juice Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2008
    Messages:
    1,038
    Thanks Received:
    57
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ratings:
    +58
    Ya, its a walk in the park. I mean are you listening to yourself?

    BTW, sleep deprevation is torture, too. And there is not physical punishment involved in that but its horrible torture

    And...are you saying the Japanese that tortured opur troops with waterboarding were wrongfully convicted?
     
  9. toomuchtime_
    Offline

    toomuchtime_ Gold Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    5,534
    Thanks Received:
    708
    Trophy Points:
    190
    Ratings:
    +1,970
    Your response seems to be that although you have strong feelings about water boarding, you have no idea what aspect of it makes you think it is torture.
     
  10. Old Rocks
    Offline

    Old Rocks Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    46,471
    Thanks Received:
    5,416
    Trophy Points:
    1,840
    Location:
    Portland, Ore.
    Ratings:
    +10,313
    Toomuchtime, you apparently do not know a thing about what you are talking about.


    Most healthcare professionals will probably never come across a patient who has been subjected to waterboarding, the term used to describe a CIA interrogation technique heatedly debated in recent months by U.S. government officials. But victims who have been waterboarded in the past say the technique causes severe physical pain and often long-lasting psychological stress.

    On Feb. 5, the CIA said three suspected al-Qaida terrorists were subjected to waterboarding to gain information about future acts of terrorism following 9/11, according to a story in the Feb. 6 Wall Street Journal. The controversy over waterboarding centers on whether the interrogation technique is a form of torture. Torture is illegal according to U.S. laws. The Bush administration claims waterboarding is not a form of torture because it leaves no physical marks. However, experts on torture, many ethicists, and many members of Congress insist waterboarding is most definitely torture.

    But whether it’s termed torture or an enhanced interrogation technique, as it is sometimes referred to by the CIA, the mechanics of waterboarding cause severe physical stress on the body and deep psychological wounds that can last a lifetime, according to healthcare experts interviewed by Nursing Spectrum and NurseWeek.

    “That goes without saying,” says Michael Grodin, MD, codirector of the Boston Center for Refugee Health and Human Rights in Boston. Grodin has treated Iraqi and Kurdish citizens who were subjected to waterboarding in the Middle East. The practice is an “enormously traumatic experience,” he says. “Everyone who knows anything about medicine would agree.”

    Used as a torture technique for more than 900 years, waterboarding can take several forms, but in all cases victims feel as though they are drowning. The following description comes from waterboarding.org | "His sufferings must be that of a man who is drowning, but cannot drown." -Lt. Grover Flint, Philippine-American War and is consistent with descriptions of the technique from other sources:

    “The interrogation subject is restrained on a board that is then inclined about 15 to 20 degrees so that the feet are above the head. An option is to place a damp cloth over the face to keep the water clinging to the face (Khmer Rouge technique) or put plastic wrap over the mouth but not the eyes or nose to prevent water from escaping the throat and sinuses (CIA technique).

    “Pour water onto the inclined face so that the water runs into the upturned mouth and nose. The water stays in the head, filling the throat, mouth, and sinuses with water. The lungs don’t fill up with water so your prisoners don’t asphyxiate, but they do feel their entire upper respiratory system from sinuses to trachea filled with water, ‘simulating drowning.’ You’re drowning your subjects from the inside, filling their head and neck. The lungs stay out of the water, keeping oxygen in the blood and prolonging the glubbing.”

    According to the recently published book Torture and Democracy, by Darius Rejali, an expert on modern torture and a professor of political science at Reed College in Oregon, “Even a small amount of water in the glottis causes violent coughing, initiating a fight-or-flight response, raising the heart rate and respiratory rate, and triggering desperate efforts to break free. The supply of oxygen available for basic metabolic functions is exhausted within seconds.”

    Steven Miles, MD, a medical ethicist, says, “When you’re waterboarded, you don’t take the type of deep, relaxing breaths that you would for swimming. You’re burning off oxygen much faster, and so while you might be able to swim underwater for 45 seconds, when waterboarded, it only takes 20 seconds to run out of breath. Furthermore, controlling the experience is the hand of someone fundamentally not working in your interest, so you don’t know when you’re coming up and you don’t know what kind of clock you’re working on. They (the torturers) might be timing it with their own breath, which is totally different than the person holding his breath.”
    Nurse.com - Waterboarding Takes Physical and Psychological Toll on Victims
     

Share This Page