Meet the green who doubts ‘The Science’

[Oddball]

Are you ever going to come back with anything but bluster?

Oh, the irony is killin' me!

 

[gslack]

You know, I've heard your narrative style before, I just can't recall where.........................




Oh, now I remember...

I believe my response should be: "I know you are, but what am I?"

Home movie pic?

Yeah you pretty much said that already punk.... You say that every time you try and divert to save face.... You got busted again talking out your ass and thinking you are brilliant, so you try and divert, confound and bullshit your way out...

You are ridiculous man.... Every one here except your sock has a good laugh every time you try this tactic...

Are you ever going to come back with anything but bluster? As a parent, I learned to be patient with children, but you are running out of time sonny...

Parent my ass.... You may have a kid, but thats not the same thing douchebag... You and your pal spent all night crying about me in another to anyone who would listen.. you tried to divert all debate when you couldn't handle it, you lied about links, you lied about what my sources said, you lied about the sources themselves, lied about who, what, and where they came from, cut up quotes of mine to try and cover your ass, and then denied doing all of it....

So you have no fucking idea what its like to be an adult much less raise a child... Adjusted adults do not try the shit you tried to pull.... And a real parent certainly would not...

Grow up moron no ones impressed with your bullshit.....

 

[westwall]

Patrick J. Michaels

Michaels is Editor of the World Climate Report, a blog published by New Hope Environmental Services, "an advocacy science consulting firm" he founded and runs.

Michaels' firm does not disclose who its clients are, but leaked documents have revealed that several were power utilities which operate coal power stations. On a 2007 academic CV, Michaels disclosed that prior to creating his firm he had received funding from the Edison Electric Institute and the Western Fuels Association. He has also been a frequent speaker with leading coal and energy companies as well as coal and other industry lobby groups.

Michaels is also associated with a number of think tanks and advocacy groups which dispute global warming. He is a Visiting Scientist with the George C. Marshall Institute, a Senior Fellow in Environmental Studies with the Cato Institute and a member of the Advisory Board of the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow.

Between December 1998 and September 2001 he was listed as a "Scientific Advisor" to the Greening Earth Society, a group that was funded and controlled by the Western Fuels Association (WFA), an association of coal-burning utility companies.

But during 1989 and 1990 it was as a global warming skeptic that Michaels was really making a name for himself. In 1989 Michaels made several appearances before Congressional committees, an appearance at a Brookings Institution event and invitations to speak to a smattering of industry groups. Some of the invitations he accepted were to speak to the Executive Board of the National Coal Association in Phoenix, Arizona, the annual meeting of the Western Fuels Association in Denver and the International Pittsburgh Coal Conference, the Edison Electric Institute and Basin Electric Power Cooperative.

Subsequently, Michaels was a favored speaker for corporate, think tank and conservative advocacy group events. Between 1990 and 1993, Michaels spoke at events organized by the Consumer Alert, the North Carolina Coal Institute, the Pacific Research Institute, the Kentucky Coal Operators Association, the Chemical Manufacturers Association, the Virginia Coal Council, the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association, AMAX Energy Corporation, Consolidation Coal Corporation, Cincinnati Gas and Electric, Chief Executive Conference on Global Warming, the National Association of Manufacturers, the National Aerosol Association, the Massie Coal Corporation, the Indiana Coal Mining Institute, the Arizona Electric Power Cooperative, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Virginia Petroleum Council, the Heritage Foundation, the American Legislative Exchange Council, the Wyoming Mining Association, Virginia Power, Amax Energy Corporation, American Electric Power, Alabama Electric Power Cooperative, the American Policy Center, the World Coal Conference, American Public Power Association, American Mining Congress, Maine Conservation Rights Institute, the Federalist Society, the Kentucky Mining Institute, Denver Coal Club and the Ashland Oil Corporation.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Of COURSE, this is just leftist kook stuff, everyone knows the corporations, industries and mining cartels that make billions of dollars in industries and minerals that would effected by alternative energy legislation just sit on the sidelines benignly and peacefully. Probably out picking daisies to give to their wives or secretaries...

What a fcukking dummy..............this guy, like so many of the k00ks think that alternative energy is a zero sum game.
Its all about what Ive been saying for years............these asshats are staunch anti-capitalists.........nothing else, thus, my frequent references to their "misery level". Thses losers are miserable about their existence and spend their lives trying to blame somebody else for their own fcukked up personal life decisions that have left them as cellar dwellers. They care about nothing........as long as the capitalist gets fcukked!!!

Its never been about the environment for one single solitary second.






EDIT>>>>> Memo to the k00ks.................trivia question oft he day..............what multinational corporation stands to make tens of billions through passage of Cap and Trade??? <<<<EDIT






stupid morons

I don't know anything about being unhappy, I've made a shit load of money in this capitalist society. But let me ask you some questions that you will have NO CLUE what I'm even talking about. Do you understand the reason for cap & trade? Can you name a multinational corporation that pollutes the environment where their product(s) reflect the ACTUAL cost, and it is not externalized? Do you know what a free market REALLY is? I thought you right wing pea brains were opposed to socialism and welfare? Learn something new every day...

Get back to me before 2012...

There truthfully is no truly free market anymore. The US government has allowed the corporations to dictate policy for far to long and are now beholden to the lobbyists and special interests.

What you "environmentalists" don't understand...or don't care about is every piece of legislation that is passed to "regulate" the "industry" was promulgated by the very corporations that are being regulated. It benifits them and drives their competition out of business. Thirty years ago you could go to any town and there would be a plethora of small mom and pop businesses on every street.

Now what do you see? The same goddamned Starbucks and McDonalds, and every other chainlandia store in all the same cartoonitecture strip malls....everywhere. And you can thank the regulation of corporations for that. Every time a new regulation is passed the corporation hires a person to handle that particular piece of BS paperwork while the small business quits and puts 5 to 10 people out of work.

Congrats you really understand the free market.....NOT!

 

[Bfgrn]

Home movie pic?

Yeah you pretty much said that already punk.... You say that every time you try and divert to save face.... You got busted again talking out your ass and thinking you are brilliant, so you try and divert, confound and bullshit your way out...

You are ridiculous man.... Every one here except your sock has a good laugh every time you try this tactic...

Are you ever going to come back with anything but bluster? As a parent, I learned to be patient with children, but you are running out of time sonny...

Parent my ass.... You may have a kid, but thats not the same thing douchebag... You and your pal spent all night crying about me in another to anyone who would listen.. you tried to divert all debate when you couldn't handle it, you lied about links, you lied about what my sources said, you lied about the sources themselves, lied about who, what, and where they came from, cut up quotes of mine to try and cover your ass, and then denied doing all of it....

So you have no fucking idea what its like to be an adult much less raise a child... Adjusted adults do not try the shit you tried to pull.... And a real parent certainly would not...

Grow up moron no ones impressed with your bullshit.....

Our first conversation started with a lie, by you. You claimed that you were a Democrat until 2008, THEN you changed. If you are not a chronic liar, you are dumber than a pile of dogshit. I've talked to Democrats that became Republicans. You are not one of them. I know a right wing pea brain when I see one. Your current accusations are all lies or GROSS exaggerations. Your name was mentioned between myself and another poster once, maybe twice, but all night...that's bullshit and you know it. You have won no debates with me, with the one exception. Your PR/marketing site you call a history site did have an 'about' link, but it was not obvious or easy to find. That tells me they are trying to shade or hide that fact they are not a history site. They ARE a PR/marketing site. But even that is irrelevant, because I pointed out that PR sites article still supported the narrative from my 2 sites.

It is clear that you have a major mental problem. That is not name calling. I am being serious.

Listen, call me any names you wish, it really doesn't bother me, but how about adding ONE sliver of substance with each post. Either that or stop stalking me. You are either a child or you deserve and Oscar. I give you credit for a slight bit of awareness, it's not that I am so smart...you are just dumb...real dumb.

 

[Bfgrn]

What a fcukking dummy..............this guy, like so many of the k00ks think that alternative energy is a zero sum game.
Its all about what Ive been saying for years............these asshats are staunch anti-capitalists.........nothing else, thus, my frequent references to their "misery level". Thses losers are miserable about their existence and spend their lives trying to blame somebody else for their own fcukked up personal life decisions that have left them as cellar dwellers. They care about nothing........as long as the capitalist gets fcukked!!!

Its never been about the environment for one single solitary second.






EDIT>>>>> Memo to the k00ks.................trivia question oft he day..............what multinational corporation stands to make tens of billions through passage of Cap and Trade??? <<<<EDIT






stupid morons

I don't know anything about being unhappy, I've made a shit load of money in this capitalist society. But let me ask you some questions that you will have NO CLUE what I'm even talking about. Do you understand the reason for cap & trade? Can you name a multinational corporation that pollutes the environment where their product(s) reflect the ACTUAL cost, and it is not externalized? Do you know what a free market REALLY is? I thought you right wing pea brains were opposed to socialism and welfare? Learn something new every day...

Get back to me before 2012...

There truthfully is no truly free market anymore. The US government has allowed the corporations to dictate policy for far to long and are now beholden to the lobbyists and special interests.

What you "environmentalists" don't understand...or don't care about is every piece of legislation that is passed to "regulate" the "industry" was promulgated by the very corporations that are being regulated. It benifits them and drives their competition out of business. Thirty years ago you could go to any town and there would be a plethora of small mom and pop businesses on every street.

Now what do you see? The same goddamned Starbucks and McDonalds, and every other chainlandia store in all the same cartoonitecture strip malls....everywhere. And you can thank the regulation of corporations for that. Every time a new regulation is passed the corporation hires a person to handle that particular piece of BS paperwork while the small business quits and puts 5 to 10 people out of work.

Congrats you really understand the free market.....NOT!

Kudos...you have shown an awareness of regulatory capture. That is light years ahead of most on the right. Here is what the right doesn't understand...that IS the policy goals of the GOP. They believe corporations should have the 'freedom' to run roughshod over the middle class and the small businessman. You are right, it was not always like that, But like it or not, the last 30 + years we have lived with conservative dominated economics. And we are right back to where we were before the New Deal. The wealth disparity is almost identical to 1928.

Here is a very enlightening speech Robert F. Kennedy Jr gave in 2005. He exhibits the best understanding of true free markets, the role of government and the free market basis of environmental laws and regulations I have come across. I would not even offer this to anyone else on this thread, but you seem to be open minded.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s Speech at the Sierra Summit, September 10, 2005 | The Democratic Daily

 

[gslack]

Are you ever going to come back with anything but bluster? As a parent, I learned to be patient with children, but you are running out of time sonny...

Parent my ass.... You may have a kid, but thats not the same thing douchebag... You and your pal spent all night crying about me in another to anyone who would listen.. you tried to divert all debate when you couldn't handle it, you lied about links, you lied about what my sources said, you lied about the sources themselves, lied about who, what, and where they came from, cut up quotes of mine to try and cover your ass, and then denied doing all of it....

So you have no fucking idea what its like to be an adult much less raise a child... Adjusted adults do not try the shit you tried to pull.... And a real parent certainly would not...

Grow up moron no ones impressed with your bullshit.....

Our first conversation started with a lie, by you. You claimed that you were a Democrat until 2008, THEN you changed. If you are not a chronic liar, you are dumber than a pile of dogshit. I've talked to Democrats that became Republicans. You are not one of them. I know a right wing pea brain when I see one. Your current accusations are all lies or GROSS exaggerations. Your name was mentioned between myself and another poster once, maybe twice, but all night...that's bullshit and you know it. You have won no debates with me, with the one exception. Your PR/marketing site you call a history site did have an 'about' link, but it was not obvious or easy to find. That tells me they are trying to shade or hide that fact they are not a history site. They ARE a PR/marketing site. But even that is irrelevant, because I pointed out that PR sites article still supported the narrative from my 2 sites.

It is clear that you have a major mental problem. That is not name calling. I am being serious.

Listen, call me any names you wish, it really doesn't bother me, but how about adding ONE sliver of substance with each post. Either that or stop stalking me. You are either a child or you deserve and Oscar. I give you credit for a slight bit of awareness, it's not that I am so smart...you are just dumb...real dumb.

Bullshit! THe thread is all there anyone can look and see you two little crybabies balling in it..

And my link was to a history website run by an educational media company you lying little POS. They make educational DVD's and media and thats a fact you little twerp. They won awards for it liar...

And if you want to ignore me you go right ahead you whiny little punk...

BTW, you are going to claim i am lying about something you cannot prove or establish? What a fucking idiot!.... LOL

 

[Big Fitz]

Yes, I noticed. WHY do you keep doing this gslack? This is not all about YOU every minute of the day. I did address what westwall said. We were having an adult conversation...

Children should be seen and not heard.

Really? Funny but it looks like you diverted again... kind of your MO now....

You talk shit calling everyone else ignorant and try pretend you are so much wiser, but when confronted on it you divert or try to argue some irrelevant side point...

here is a sample of what its like debating you...

poster: The world is not flat but round...

bfgrn: thats not true, you are just to stupid to know that...

poster: uh? it is so here is the proof..

bfgrn: perhaps but would you think it was round if the vast right wing conpiracy didn't tell you so?

poster: wtf?

bfgrn: yeah can't debate your topic and so you try and change it now...


Yeah thats exactly how debates go with bfgrn...

You know, I've heard your narrative style before, I just can't recall where.........................




Oh, now I remember...

I believe my response should be: "I know you are, but what am I?"

You ever going to provide a list of trusted science resources?

Or are we gonna get more "blah blah blah Ginger, blah blah blah."

 

[Oddball]

Here is a very enlightening speech Robert F. Kennedy Jr gave in 2005. He exhibits the best understanding of true free markets, the role of government and the free market basis of environmental laws and regulations I have come across. I would not even offer this to anyone else on this thread, but you seem to be open minded.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s Speech at the Sierra Summit, September 10, 2005 | The Democratic Daily

BWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

You've "offered" that conspiratorial delusional dreck, from the man who personifies "guilty idle rich", around this forum so many times it's pathetic!

Man, you're on an inadvertent comedic roll today!

 

[Bfgrn]

Here is a very enlightening speech Robert F. Kennedy Jr gave in 2005. He exhibits the best understanding of true free markets, the role of government and the free market basis of environmental laws and regulations I have come across. I would not even offer this to anyone else on this thread, but you seem to be open minded.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s Speech at the Sierra Summit, September 10, 2005 | The Democratic Daily

BWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

You've "offered" that conspiratorial delusional dreck, from the man who personifies "guilty idle rich", around this forum so many times it's pathetic!

Man, you're on an inadvertent comedic roll today!

"guilty idle rich" Jethro? You really know nothing about the Kennedys. Rich, yes. Idle...NEVER. Look up the word 'vigor'

Growing up a Kennedy...Joe Sr. did not pamper his children…He gave them the best education and demanded they contribute to society and be positive citizens. Each night at the dinner table, every child was required to start a discussion of a current event, speak about it and be able to answer questions. There was no TV watching, there were books and newspapers to read.

President Kennedy was a speed reader. He could read at 1,200 words a minute. When he was President, he would read every national newspaper 'cover to cover' before his daily briefing.

I heard Maria Shriver talk about her mother Eunice. Even as a married adult when her mom walked into the room Maria would quickly grab a book or magazine out of habit. She knew her mother would make a comment if she were doing nothing.

Maria' friend, Oprah Winfrey was invited to the family compound in Hyannis Port for a family gathering. Oprah ended up hiding in a closet because she was so worn out from all the competitive events and non-stop activity.

Yes DUD, I defend the Kennedys. I always will.

You on the other hand constantly defend Boooooooooooooooosh. Now THAT is "guilty idle rich" personified.

Hey Jethro, I see your 'Thanks' at the bottom of westfall's post. The one where he says 'every piece of legislation that is passed to "regulate" the "industry" was promulgated by the very corporations that are being regulated'

HOW does your little Jethro mind accept THAT as truth, yet you deny those SAME corporations are spending millions of dollars, lobbying and applying political pressure to distort, misinform and obfuscate the climate debate and try to discredit, dismiss and derail the REAL scientists? Was it the lobotomy, or did Uncle Jed pull a 'Cheney"?

 

[Bfgrn]

Patrick J. Michaels

Michaels is Editor of the World Climate Report, a blog published by New Hope Environmental Services, "an advocacy science consulting firm" he founded and runs.

Michaels' firm does not disclose who its clients are, but leaked documents have revealed that several were power utilities which operate coal power stations. On a 2007 academic CV, Michaels disclosed that prior to creating his firm he had received funding from the Edison Electric Institute and the Western Fuels Association. He has also been a frequent speaker with leading coal and energy companies as well as coal and other industry lobby groups.

Michaels is also associated with a number of think tanks and advocacy groups which dispute global warming. He is a Visiting Scientist with the George C. Marshall Institute, a Senior Fellow in Environmental Studies with the Cato Institute and a member of the Advisory Board of the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow.

Between December 1998 and September 2001 he was listed as a "Scientific Advisor" to the Greening Earth Society, a group that was funded and controlled by the Western Fuels Association (WFA), an association of coal-burning utility companies.

But during 1989 and 1990 it was as a global warming skeptic that Michaels was really making a name for himself. In 1989 Michaels made several appearances before Congressional committees, an appearance at a Brookings Institution event and invitations to speak to a smattering of industry groups. Some of the invitations he accepted were to speak to the Executive Board of the National Coal Association in Phoenix, Arizona, the annual meeting of the Western Fuels Association in Denver and the International Pittsburgh Coal Conference, the Edison Electric Institute and Basin Electric Power Cooperative.

Subsequently, Michaels was a favored speaker for corporate, think tank and conservative advocacy group events. Between 1990 and 1993, Michaels spoke at events organized by the Consumer Alert, the North Carolina Coal Institute, the Pacific Research Institute, the Kentucky Coal Operators Association, the Chemical Manufacturers Association, the Virginia Coal Council, the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association, AMAX Energy Corporation, Consolidation Coal Corporation, Cincinnati Gas and Electric, Chief Executive Conference on Global Warming, the National Association of Manufacturers, the National Aerosol Association, the Massie Coal Corporation, the Indiana Coal Mining Institute, the Arizona Electric Power Cooperative, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Virginia Petroleum Council, the Heritage Foundation, the American Legislative Exchange Council, the Wyoming Mining Association, Virginia Power, Amax Energy Corporation, American Electric Power, Alabama Electric Power Cooperative, the American Policy Center, the World Coal Conference, American Public Power Association, American Mining Congress, Maine Conservation Rights Institute, the Federalist Society, the Kentucky Mining Institute, Denver Coal Club and the Ashland Oil Corporation.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Of COURSE, this is just leftist kook stuff, everyone knows the corporations, industries and mining cartels that make billions of dollars in industries and minerals that would effected by alternative energy legislation just sit on the sidelines benignly and peacefully. Probably out picking daisies to give to their wives or secretaries...

You are falling into the same trap that old fraud did many moons ago. If you attack the messenger and not his message you lose. We found out that almost all of the warmist proponent scientists have been fraudulently manipulating data. In a court of law they would be guilty of perjury and sent to prison.

Furthermore, once someone has been found guilty of perjury they are no longer useful in a court situation. An Expert Winess who lies is toast. They will no longer be allowed to testify for anyone, prosecution or defence.

We are attacking the fraudulent data that your side is espousing. We are not specifically attacking the perpetrators...yet. All you people do is attack the messenger. Guess what we don't care! So long as the messengers have not comitted fraud like your folks have, we don't care. We care about the evidence which you folks don't give a cfrap about. All you care about is the fear that you can generate in the un-educated so you can force your agendas down the populaces throats.

Sorry to tell you chum but the unwashed have figure out you are all a bunch of dickhead liars and they don't listen to liars.

WOW westfall, Fox news, Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck couldn't 'spin' the bullshit any better. You are a TRUE disciple. The truth is everyone of your denier's sources have been outed as liars, frauds and corporate mouthpieces. They are responsible for human DEATHS with their lies!

The SAME structure of scientists, think tanks and corporate funding you call TRUTH in the climate debate are the SAME structure of scientists, think tanks and corporate funding that forwarded 'science' and arguments for the tobacco industries, that cigarettes smoking is not linked to cancer, that the ozone is not being depleted and that acid rain was a myth...

They are beyond frauds and dickhead liars ...they are murderers

 

[westwall]

I don't know anything about being unhappy, I've made a shit load of money in this capitalist society. But let me ask you some questions that you will have NO CLUE what I'm even talking about. Do you understand the reason for cap & trade? Can you name a multinational corporation that pollutes the environment where their product(s) reflect the ACTUAL cost, and it is not externalized? Do you know what a free market REALLY is? I thought you right wing pea brains were opposed to socialism and welfare? Learn something new every day...

Get back to me before 2012...

There truthfully is no truly free market anymore. The US government has allowed the corporations to dictate policy for far to long and are now beholden to the lobbyists and special interests.

What you "environmentalists" don't understand...or don't care about is every piece of legislation that is passed to "regulate" the "industry" was promulgated by the very corporations that are being regulated. It benifits them and drives their competition out of business. Thirty years ago you could go to any town and there would be a plethora of small mom and pop businesses on every street.

Now what do you see? The same goddamned Starbucks and McDonalds, and every other chainlandia store in all the same cartoonitecture strip malls....everywhere. And you can thank the regulation of corporations for that. Every time a new regulation is passed the corporation hires a person to handle that particular piece of BS paperwork while the small business quits and puts 5 to 10 people out of work.

Congrats you really understand the free market.....NOT!

Kudos...you have shown an awareness of regulatory capture. That is light years ahead of most on the right. Here is what the right doesn't understand...that IS the policy goals of the GOP. They believe corporations should have the 'freedom' to run roughshod over the middle class and the small businessman. You are right, it was not always like that, But like it or not, the last 30 + years we have lived with conservative dominated economics. And we are right back to where we were before the New Deal. The wealth disparity is almost identical to 1928.

Here is a very enlightening speech Robert F. Kennedy Jr gave in 2005. He exhibits the best understanding of true free markets, the role of government and the free market basis of environmental laws and regulations I have come across. I would not even offer this to anyone else on this thread, but you seem to be open minded.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s Speech at the Sierra Summit, September 10, 2005 | The Democratic Daily

bfgrn,

The Democrats are taking the US towards Socialism at 100 miles an hour, the Republicans are doing it at 75 mph. There is so little difference between the two party's now that the names are almost irrelevant. And I KNEW this when I was 15. Also your contention that the wealth disparity is the same today as it was in 1928 is wrong. I have a 1932 dated US Communist Party newspaper where they make the observation that 2% of the US population controlled 76% of the nations wealth. Very shortly after that the Democrats took over both houses of congress (which they did not relinquish for 40 years) and they also controlled the presidency for a good proportion of that time as well. The ratio after that 40 year run was 1% controlled 90%, so the Democrats sure as hell weren't working for the poor whatever BS propaganda they put out. They were working for the rich to make the rich....richer.

 

[gslack]

Here is a very enlightening speech Robert F. Kennedy Jr gave in 2005. He exhibits the best understanding of true free markets, the role of government and the free market basis of environmental laws and regulations I have come across. I would not even offer this to anyone else on this thread, but you seem to be open minded.

Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s Speech at the Sierra Summit, September 10, 2005 | The Democratic Daily

BWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

You've "offered" that conspiratorial delusional dreck, from the man who personifies "guilty idle rich", around this forum so many times it's pathetic!

Man, you're on an inadvertent comedic roll today!

"guilty idle rich" Jethro? You really know nothing about the Kennedys. Rich, yes. Idle...NEVER. Look up the word 'vigor'

Growing up a Kennedy...Joe Sr. did not pamper his children…He gave them the best education and demanded they contribute to society and be positive citizens. Each night at the dinner table, every child was required to start a discussion of a current event, speak about it and be able to answer questions. There was no TV watching, there were books and newspapers to read.

President Kennedy was a speed reader. He could read at 1,200 words a minute. When he was President, he would read every national newspaper 'cover to cover' before his daily briefing.

I heard Maria Shriver talk about her mother Eunice. Even as a married adult when her mom walked into the room Maria would quickly grab a book or magazine out of habit. She knew her mother would make a comment if she were doing nothing.

Maria' friend, Oprah Winfrey was invited to the family compound in Hyannis Port for a family gathering. Oprah ended up hiding in a closet because she was so worn out from all the competitive events and non-stop activity.

Yes DUD, I defend the Kennedys. I always will.

You on the other hand constantly defend Boooooooooooooooosh. Now THAT is "guilty idle rich" personified.

Hey Jethro, I see your 'Thanks' at the bottom of westfall's post. The one where he says 'every piece of legislation that is passed to "regulate" the "industry" was promulgated by the very corporations that are being regulated'

HOW does your little Jethro mind accept THAT as truth, yet you deny those SAME corporations are spending millions of dollars, lobbying and applying political pressure to distort, misinform and obfuscate the climate debate and try to discredit, dismiss and derail the REAL scientists? Was it the lobotomy, or did Uncle Jed pull a 'Cheney"?

LOL, ok....So he taught them about smuggling liquor then?

 

[westwall]

Patrick J. Michaels

Michaels is Editor of the World Climate Report, a blog published by New Hope Environmental Services, "an advocacy science consulting firm" he founded and runs.

Michaels' firm does not disclose who its clients are, but leaked documents have revealed that several were power utilities which operate coal power stations. On a 2007 academic CV, Michaels disclosed that prior to creating his firm he had received funding from the Edison Electric Institute and the Western Fuels Association. He has also been a frequent speaker with leading coal and energy companies as well as coal and other industry lobby groups.

Michaels is also associated with a number of think tanks and advocacy groups which dispute global warming. He is a Visiting Scientist with the George C. Marshall Institute, a Senior Fellow in Environmental Studies with the Cato Institute and a member of the Advisory Board of the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow.

Between December 1998 and September 2001 he was listed as a "Scientific Advisor" to the Greening Earth Society, a group that was funded and controlled by the Western Fuels Association (WFA), an association of coal-burning utility companies.

But during 1989 and 1990 it was as a global warming skeptic that Michaels was really making a name for himself. In 1989 Michaels made several appearances before Congressional committees, an appearance at a Brookings Institution event and invitations to speak to a smattering of industry groups. Some of the invitations he accepted were to speak to the Executive Board of the National Coal Association in Phoenix, Arizona, the annual meeting of the Western Fuels Association in Denver and the International Pittsburgh Coal Conference, the Edison Electric Institute and Basin Electric Power Cooperative.

Subsequently, Michaels was a favored speaker for corporate, think tank and conservative advocacy group events. Between 1990 and 1993, Michaels spoke at events organized by the Consumer Alert, the North Carolina Coal Institute, the Pacific Research Institute, the Kentucky Coal Operators Association, the Chemical Manufacturers Association, the Virginia Coal Council, the National Rural Electric Cooperative Association, AMAX Energy Corporation, Consolidation Coal Corporation, Cincinnati Gas and Electric, Chief Executive Conference on Global Warming, the National Association of Manufacturers, the National Aerosol Association, the Massie Coal Corporation, the Indiana Coal Mining Institute, the Arizona Electric Power Cooperative, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce, the Virginia Petroleum Council, the Heritage Foundation, the American Legislative Exchange Council, the Wyoming Mining Association, Virginia Power, Amax Energy Corporation, American Electric Power, Alabama Electric Power Cooperative, the American Policy Center, the World Coal Conference, American Public Power Association, American Mining Congress, Maine Conservation Rights Institute, the Federalist Society, the Kentucky Mining Institute, Denver Coal Club and the Ashland Oil Corporation.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Of COURSE, this is just leftist kook stuff, everyone knows the corporations, industries and mining cartels that make billions of dollars in industries and minerals that would effected by alternative energy legislation just sit on the sidelines benignly and peacefully. Probably out picking daisies to give to their wives or secretaries...

You are falling into the same trap that old fraud did many moons ago. If you attack the messenger and not his message you lose. We found out that almost all of the warmist proponent scientists have been fraudulently manipulating data. In a court of law they would be guilty of perjury and sent to prison.

Furthermore, once someone has been found guilty of perjury they are no longer useful in a court situation. An Expert Winess who lies is toast. They will no longer be allowed to testify for anyone, prosecution or defence.

We are attacking the fraudulent data that your side is espousing. We are not specifically attacking the perpetrators...yet. All you people do is attack the messenger. Guess what we don't care! So long as the messengers have not comitted fraud like your folks have, we don't care. We care about the evidence which you folks don't give a cfrap about. All you care about is the fear that you can generate in the un-educated so you can force your agendas down the populaces throats.

Sorry to tell you chum but the unwashed have figure out you are all a bunch of dickhead liars and they don't listen to liars.

WOW westfall, Fox news, Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck couldn't 'spin' the bullshit any better. You are a TRUE disciple. The truth is everyone of your denier's sources have been outed as liars, frauds and corporate mouthpieces. They are responsible for human DEATHS with their lies!

The SAME structure of scientists, think tanks and corporate funding you call TRUTH in the climate debate are the SAME structure of scientists, think tanks and corporate funding that forwarded 'science' and arguments for the tobacco industries, that cigarettes smoking is not linked to cancer, that the ozone is not being depleted and that acid rain was a myth...

They are beyond frauds and dickhead liars ...they are murderers

Wrong again boyo....I can care less where the information comes from so long as it's ACCURATE. I subscribe to many left leaning sites because they have some good reporters who still know how to report the truth. Rolling Stone magazine has published two real good articles on the AGW scam and how Goldman Sachs is deeply involved in the carbon trading markets. I think you would agree that Rolling Stone is not a paragon of right wing thought? The authors of the articles are people that I probably have very little in common with and would probably get into a heated argument over public policy...but when they report accurate information I have to respect that.

You boys on the other hand don't. If gthe information is against your side you ignore and try to prevent it from getting out to the rest of the world.

That is simply not acceptable.

 

[Bfgrn]

You are falling into the same trap that old fraud did many moons ago. If you attack the messenger and not his message you lose. We found out that almost all of the warmist proponent scientists have been fraudulently manipulating data. In a court of law they would be guilty of perjury and sent to prison.

Furthermore, once someone has been found guilty of perjury they are no longer useful in a court situation. An Expert Winess who lies is toast. They will no longer be allowed to testify for anyone, prosecution or defence.

We are attacking the fraudulent data that your side is espousing. We are not specifically attacking the perpetrators...yet. All you people do is attack the messenger. Guess what we don't care! So long as the messengers have not comitted fraud like your folks have, we don't care. We care about the evidence which you folks don't give a cfrap about. All you care about is the fear that you can generate in the un-educated so you can force your agendas down the populaces throats.

Sorry to tell you chum but the unwashed have figure out you are all a bunch of dickhead liars and they don't listen to liars.

WOW westfall, Fox news, Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck couldn't 'spin' the bullshit any better. You are a TRUE disciple. The truth is everyone of your denier's sources have been outed as liars, frauds and corporate mouthpieces. They are responsible for human DEATHS with their lies!

The SAME structure of scientists, think tanks and corporate funding you call TRUTH in the climate debate are the SAME structure of scientists, think tanks and corporate funding that forwarded 'science' and arguments for the tobacco industries, that cigarettes smoking is not linked to cancer, that the ozone is not being depleted and that acid rain was a myth...

They are beyond frauds and dickhead liars ...they are murderers

Wrong again boyo....I can care less where the information comes from so long as it's ACCURATE. I subscribe to many left leaning sites because they have some good reporters who still know how to report the truth. Rolling Stone magazine has published two real good articles on the AGW scam and how Goldman Sachs is deeply involved in the carbon trading markets. I think you would agree that Rolling Stone is not a paragon of right wing thought? The authors of the articles are people that I probably have very little in common with and would probably get into a heated argument over public policy...but when they report accurate information I have to respect that.

You boys on the other hand don't. If gthe information is against your side you ignore and try to prevent it from getting out to the rest of the world.

That is simply not acceptable.

Accurate? HOW do you know what IS accurate? Are YOU a climatologist, a scientist or a doctor? The truth is SO much of the environmental action being called for by the 'left' and 'environmentalists' parallels action called for to abate pollution. We KNOW that carcinogens and heavy metals like mercury and lead have tremendous ADVERSE effects on humans, fish, fowl and all mammals that breath, drink water or touch the soil.

I urge you to read Robert F. Kennedy's speech. You are welcome to disagree with his politics, but I challenge you to disprove his environmental claims or his indictment of the Bush administration's criminal environmental policies.

I will ask you the same question I asked DUD...You said: 'every piece of legislation that is passed to "regulate" the "industry" was promulgated by the very corporations that are being regulated'

HOW do you accept THAT as truth, yet you deny those SAME corporations are spending millions of dollars, lobbying and applying political pressure to distort, misinform and obfuscate the climate debate and try to discredit, dismiss and derail the REAL scientists?

Bush's sorry environmental record

by Former EPA Administrator Russell Train and former New Hampshire State Senator Rick Russman, both REP members

published September 23, 2004 in the Concord (NH) Monitor

Except in a few instances, the environmental policies of the Bush administration are a disgrace.

As lifelong Republicans who have worked for decades to protect and restore clean air and clean water, we find the turning back of the environmental clock by this administration profoundly disturbing. And New Hampshire suffers from these backward policies.

Republican President Richard Nixon created the Environmental Protection Agency. In his 1970 State of the Union message, he called the environmental cause "as fundamental as life itself." With bipartisan leadership in Congress, Nixon initiated many of the environmental protections we enjoy today.

Republican President George H.W. Bush signed the Clean Air Act of 1990, one of the most protective environmental statutes.

Unfortunately, President George W. Bush's administration is reversing course from 30 years of bipartisan leadership to protect our health and environment.

The administration's policies to promote energy, mining and timber interests with little regard for the interests of common citizens represent a throwback to an era of exploitation. The administration's assault on the environment has increased pollution and health threats in New Hampshire, according to a report by Environment2004.

The administration weakened the Clean Air Act to allow aging power plants to continue spewing sulfur, mercury and other contaminants into the skies. These end up in New Hampshire's air and waters. This pollution from Midwestern power plants and other sources forms smog that threatens the 65,000 New Hampshire residents who suffer from asthma. It falls as acid rain that damages New Hampshire's forests and waters.

Mercury pollution has forced New Hampshire to establish a fish consumption advisory that covers all its lakes and rivers. Infants, children, pregnant women and women of child-bearing age are particularly vulnerable to mercury. Mercury affects a child's ability to learn, most notably impairing memory, attention and fine motor function.

New Hampshire's drinking water is threatened by the Bush administration. Fifteen percent of New Hampshire's public water supplies and thousands of its private wells are contaminated by the fuel additive MtBE. Recent studies show that MtBE may cause cancer, and it makes drinking water smell and taste foul even at low levels, yet the administration has not banned its use.

To pay for the cleanup of this contamination, New Hampshire sued 22 oil companies responsible for MtBE contamination. Nonetheless, the Bush administration's energy bill would block these suits and force New Hampshire taxpayers to foot the bill for cleaning up the state's contaminated drinking water. The industry contributed $338,000 to the Bush presidential campaign and Republican congressional candidates in 1999 and 2000.

Republican Sens. Judd Gregg and John Sununu fervently oppose this policy.

The administration has adopted these and other policies based on the advice of its industry allies instead of the EPA's scientists and experts. Its proposed mercury policy would delay significant mercury reduction until 2018. This was lifted from the utility industry's recommendations while the administration ignored the EPA's children's health protection experts.

This is but one example of the administration disregarding scientific guidance - a radical change from previous Republican and Democratic administrations.

The scientific community is alarmed by the Bush administration's widespread rejection of sound science. The Union of Concerned Scientists, a nationwide organization of eminent scientists declared: "When scientific knowledge has been found to be in conflict with its political goals, the administration has often manipulated the process through which science enters into its decisions."More recently, 48 Nobel Prize-winning scientists wrote in an open letter to the American people that the administration "has ignored unbiased scientific advice in the policy-making that is so important to our collective welfare."

There was no mandate in the 2000 election to weaken and undo our environmental and public health protections. In this year's election, environmental policy needs a full public debate.

Whole article...

 

[Bfgrn]

BWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHA!

You've "offered" that conspiratorial delusional dreck, from the man who personifies "guilty idle rich", around this forum so many times it's pathetic!

Man, you're on an inadvertent comedic roll today!

"guilty idle rich" Jethro? You really know nothing about the Kennedys. Rich, yes. Idle...NEVER. Look up the word 'vigor'

Growing up a Kennedy...Joe Sr. did not pamper his children…He gave them the best education and demanded they contribute to society and be positive citizens. Each night at the dinner table, every child was required to start a discussion of a current event, speak about it and be able to answer questions. There was no TV watching, there were books and newspapers to read.

President Kennedy was a speed reader. He could read at 1,200 words a minute. When he was President, he would read every national newspaper 'cover to cover' before his daily briefing.

I heard Maria Shriver talk about her mother Eunice. Even as a married adult when her mom walked into the room Maria would quickly grab a book or magazine out of habit. She knew her mother would make a comment if she were doing nothing.

Maria' friend, Oprah Winfrey was invited to the family compound in Hyannis Port for a family gathering. Oprah ended up hiding in a closet because she was so worn out from all the competitive events and non-stop activity.

Yes DUD, I defend the Kennedys. I always will.

You on the other hand constantly defend Boooooooooooooooosh. Now THAT is "guilty idle rich" personified.

Hey Jethro, I see your 'Thanks' at the bottom of westfall's post. The one where he says 'every piece of legislation that is passed to "regulate" the "industry" was promulgated by the very corporations that are being regulated'

HOW does your little Jethro mind accept THAT as truth, yet you deny those SAME corporations are spending millions of dollars, lobbying and applying political pressure to distort, misinform and obfuscate the climate debate and try to discredit, dismiss and derail the REAL scientists? Was it the lobotomy, or did Uncle Jed pull a 'Cheney"?

LOL, ok....So he taught them about smuggling liquor then?

Says the child... still unable to provide even a sliver of of substance in your posts?

 

[westwall]

WOW westfall, Fox news, Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck couldn't 'spin' the bullshit any better. You are a TRUE disciple. The truth is everyone of your denier's sources have been outed as liars, frauds and corporate mouthpieces. They are responsible for human DEATHS with their lies!

The SAME structure of scientists, think tanks and corporate funding you call TRUTH in the climate debate are the SAME structure of scientists, think tanks and corporate funding that forwarded 'science' and arguments for the tobacco industries, that cigarettes smoking is not linked to cancer, that the ozone is not being depleted and that acid rain was a myth...

They are beyond frauds and dickhead liars ...they are murderers

Wrong again boyo....I can care less where the information comes from so long as it's ACCURATE. I subscribe to many left leaning sites because they have some good reporters who still know how to report the truth. Rolling Stone magazine has published two real good articles on the AGW scam and how Goldman Sachs is deeply involved in the carbon trading markets. I think you would agree that Rolling Stone is not a paragon of right wing thought? The authors of the articles are people that I probably have very little in common with and would probably get into a heated argument over public policy...but when they report accurate information I have to respect that.

You boys on the other hand don't. If gthe information is against your side you ignore and try to prevent it from getting out to the rest of the world.

That is simply not acceptable.

Accurate? HOW do you know what IS accurate? Are YOU a climatologist, a scientist or a doctor? The truth is SO much of the environmental action being called for by the 'left' and 'environmentalists' parallels action called for to abate pollution. We KNOW that carcinogens and heavy metals like mercury and lead have tremendous ADVERSE effects on humans, fish, fowl and all mammals that breath, drink water are touch the soil.

I urge you to read Robert F. Kennedy's speech. You are welcome to disagree with his politics, but I challenge you to disprove his environmental claims or his indictment of the Bush administration's criminal environmental policies.

I will ask you the same question I asked DUD...You said: 'every piece of legislation that is passed to "regulate" the "industry" was promulgated by the very corporations that are being regulated'

HOW do you accept THAT as truth, yet you deny those SAME corporations are spending millions of dollars, lobbying and applying political pressure to distort, misinform and obfuscate the climate debate and try to discredit, dismiss and derail the REAL scientists?

Bush's sorry environmental record

by Former EPA Administrator Russell Train and former New Hampshire State Senator Rick Russman, both REP members

published September 23, 2004 in the Concord (NH) Monitor

Except in a few instances, the environmental policies of the Bush administration are a disgrace.

As lifelong Republicans who have worked for decades to protect and restore clean air and clean water, we find the turning back of the environmental clock by this administration profoundly disturbing. And New Hampshire suffers from these backward policies.

Republican President Richard Nixon created the Environmental Protection Agency. In his 1970 State of the Union message, he called the environmental cause "as fundamental as life itself." With bipartisan leadership in Congress, Nixon initiated many of the environmental protections we enjoy today.

Republican President George H.W. Bush signed the Clean Air Act of 1990, one of the most protective environmental statutes.

Unfortunately, President George W. Bush's administration is reversing course from 30 years of bipartisan leadership to protect our health and environment.

The administration's policies to promote energy, mining and timber interests with little regard for the interests of common citizens represent a throwback to an era of exploitation. The administration's assault on the environment has increased pollution and health threats in New Hampshire, according to a report by Environment2004.

The administration weakened the Clean Air Act to allow aging power plants to continue spewing sulfur, mercury and other contaminants into the skies. These end up in New Hampshire's air and waters. This pollution from Midwestern power plants and other sources forms smog that threatens the 65,000 New Hampshire residents who suffer from asthma. It falls as acid rain that damages New Hampshire's forests and waters.

Mercury pollution has forced New Hampshire to establish a fish consumption advisory that covers all its lakes and rivers. Infants, children, pregnant women and women of child-bearing age are particularly vulnerable to mercury. Mercury affects a child's ability to learn, most notably impairing memory, attention and fine motor function.

New Hampshire's drinking water is threatened by the Bush administration. Fifteen percent of New Hampshire's public water supplies and thousands of its private wells are contaminated by the fuel additive MtBE. Recent studies show that MtBE may cause cancer, and it makes drinking water smell and taste foul even at low levels, yet the administration has not banned its use.

To pay for the cleanup of this contamination, New Hampshire sued 22 oil companies responsible for MtBE contamination. Nonetheless, the Bush administration's energy bill would block these suits and force New Hampshire taxpayers to foot the bill for cleaning up the state's contaminated drinking water. The industry contributed $338,000 to the Bush presidential campaign and Republican congressional candidates in 1999 and 2000.

Republican Sens. Judd Gregg and John Sununu fervently oppose this policy.

The administration has adopted these and other policies based on the advice of its industry allies instead of the EPA's scientists and experts. Its proposed mercury policy would delay significant mercury reduction until 2018. This was lifted from the utility industry's recommendations while the administration ignored the EPA's children's health protection experts.

This is but one example of the administration disregarding scientific guidance - a radical change from previous Republican and Democratic administrations.

The scientific community is alarmed by the Bush administration's widespread rejection of sound science. The Union of Concerned Scientists, a nationwide organization of eminent scientists declared: "When scientific knowledge has been found to be in conflict with its political goals, the administration has often manipulated the process through which science enters into its decisions."More recently, 48 Nobel Prize-winning scientists wrote in an open letter to the American people that the administration "has ignored unbiased scientific advice in the policy-making that is so important to our collective welfare."

There was no mandate in the 2000 election to weaken and undo our environmental and public health protections. In this year's election, environmental policy needs a full public debate.

Whole article...

Yes I am a scientist, I am a geologist by trade. I started as a big believer in AGW till I did some actual research on the subject. Then because I DO have a scientific background it became very obvious very quickly that what was being said was wrong. I did not know that it had devolved to the level of actual fraud till about two years ago. Then it was confirmed by CLIMATEGATE. So I can say with a very high degree of certainty what is correct and what is not correct.

old fraud loves to say I lie about geology every time I post on it but to date after challenging him to provide us with an example he of course can't produce because, well he is a fraud.

And you complain about the millions of dollars that are being spent by the lobbyists and ignorethe BILLIONS that have allready been squandered. Last time I checked a billion was bigger than a million. But maybe not on your planet.

 

[Foxfyre]

(excerpted from longer post):
Yes I am a scientist, I am a geologist by trade. I started as a big believer in AGW till I did some actual research on the subject. Then because I DO have a scientific background it became very obvious very quickly that what was being said was wrong. I did not know that it had devolved to the level of actual fraud till about two years ago. Then it was confirmed by CLIMATEGATE. So I can say with a very high degree of certainty what is correct and what is not correct.

It is people like you that convinced me. I didn't have a clue which side was right at the beginning. But the more I read, the more I sensed that the skeptics were making a much stronger case than the warmers and most of the skeptics didn't have a dog in the fight while many/most of the warmers did.

Then I started seeing scientists here and there objecting to being included as part of the 'consensus' for AGW. That should have raised red flags for everybody.

And then I saw how visciously Senator Inhofe's list of more than 400 respected and well credentialed scientists who are skeptics has been savaged by the AGW religionists. And how many of those 400+ scientists, like you, started out as warmers but found that the science just didn't hold up.

In all thngs scientific, an open mind is a pretty good thing to have.

 

[konradv]

And then I saw how visciously Senator Inhofe's list of more than 400 respected and well credentialed scientists who are skeptics has been savaged by the AGW religionists.
-----------------------------

This sentence proves you're no more open minded on the subject than those you're criticizing. Using the phrase "AGW religionists" tags you as someone who ISN'T even handed and DOES have a dog in the fight.

 

[Bfgrn]

Wrong again boyo....I can care less where the information comes from so long as it's ACCURATE. I subscribe to many left leaning sites because they have some good reporters who still know how to report the truth. Rolling Stone magazine has published two real good articles on the AGW scam and how Goldman Sachs is deeply involved in the carbon trading markets. I think you would agree that Rolling Stone is not a paragon of right wing thought? The authors of the articles are people that I probably have very little in common with and would probably get into a heated argument over public policy...but when they report accurate information I have to respect that.

You boys on the other hand don't. If gthe information is against your side you ignore and try to prevent it from getting out to the rest of the world.

That is simply not acceptable.

Accurate? HOW do you know what IS accurate? Are YOU a climatologist, a scientist or a doctor? The truth is SO much of the environmental action being called for by the 'left' and 'environmentalists' parallels action called for to abate pollution. We KNOW that carcinogens and heavy metals like mercury and lead have tremendous ADVERSE effects on humans, fish, fowl and all mammals that breath, drink water are touch the soil.

I urge you to read Robert F. Kennedy's speech. You are welcome to disagree with his politics, but I challenge you to disprove his environmental claims or his indictment of the Bush administration's criminal environmental policies.

I will ask you the same question I asked DUD...You said: 'every piece of legislation that is passed to "regulate" the "industry" was promulgated by the very corporations that are being regulated'

HOW do you accept THAT as truth, yet you deny those SAME corporations are spending millions of dollars, lobbying and applying political pressure to distort, misinform and obfuscate the climate debate and try to discredit, dismiss and derail the REAL scientists?

Bush's sorry environmental record

by Former EPA Administrator Russell Train and former New Hampshire State Senator Rick Russman, both REP members

published September 23, 2004 in the Concord (NH) Monitor

Except in a few instances, the environmental policies of the Bush administration are a disgrace.

As lifelong Republicans who have worked for decades to protect and restore clean air and clean water, we find the turning back of the environmental clock by this administration profoundly disturbing. And New Hampshire suffers from these backward policies.

Republican President Richard Nixon created the Environmental Protection Agency. In his 1970 State of the Union message, he called the environmental cause "as fundamental as life itself." With bipartisan leadership in Congress, Nixon initiated many of the environmental protections we enjoy today.

Republican President George H.W. Bush signed the Clean Air Act of 1990, one of the most protective environmental statutes.

Unfortunately, President George W. Bush's administration is reversing course from 30 years of bipartisan leadership to protect our health and environment.

The administration's policies to promote energy, mining and timber interests with little regard for the interests of common citizens represent a throwback to an era of exploitation. The administration's assault on the environment has increased pollution and health threats in New Hampshire, according to a report by Environment2004.

The administration weakened the Clean Air Act to allow aging power plants to continue spewing sulfur, mercury and other contaminants into the skies. These end up in New Hampshire's air and waters. This pollution from Midwestern power plants and other sources forms smog that threatens the 65,000 New Hampshire residents who suffer from asthma. It falls as acid rain that damages New Hampshire's forests and waters.

Mercury pollution has forced New Hampshire to establish a fish consumption advisory that covers all its lakes and rivers. Infants, children, pregnant women and women of child-bearing age are particularly vulnerable to mercury. Mercury affects a child's ability to learn, most notably impairing memory, attention and fine motor function.

New Hampshire's drinking water is threatened by the Bush administration. Fifteen percent of New Hampshire's public water supplies and thousands of its private wells are contaminated by the fuel additive MtBE. Recent studies show that MtBE may cause cancer, and it makes drinking water smell and taste foul even at low levels, yet the administration has not banned its use.

To pay for the cleanup of this contamination, New Hampshire sued 22 oil companies responsible for MtBE contamination. Nonetheless, the Bush administration's energy bill would block these suits and force New Hampshire taxpayers to foot the bill for cleaning up the state's contaminated drinking water. The industry contributed $338,000 to the Bush presidential campaign and Republican congressional candidates in 1999 and 2000.

Republican Sens. Judd Gregg and John Sununu fervently oppose this policy.

The administration has adopted these and other policies based on the advice of its industry allies instead of the EPA's scientists and experts. Its proposed mercury policy would delay significant mercury reduction until 2018. This was lifted from the utility industry's recommendations while the administration ignored the EPA's children's health protection experts.

This is but one example of the administration disregarding scientific guidance - a radical change from previous Republican and Democratic administrations.

The scientific community is alarmed by the Bush administration's widespread rejection of sound science. The Union of Concerned Scientists, a nationwide organization of eminent scientists declared: "When scientific knowledge has been found to be in conflict with its political goals, the administration has often manipulated the process through which science enters into its decisions."More recently, 48 Nobel Prize-winning scientists wrote in an open letter to the American people that the administration "has ignored unbiased scientific advice in the policy-making that is so important to our collective welfare."

There was no mandate in the 2000 election to weaken and undo our environmental and public health protections. In this year's election, environmental policy needs a full public debate.

Whole article...

Yes I am a scientist, I am a geologist by trade. I started as a big believer in AGW till I did some actual research on the subject. Then because I DO have a scientific background it became very obvious very quickly that what was being said was wrong. I did not know that it had devolved to the level of actual fraud till about two years ago. Then it was confirmed by CLIMATEGATE. So I can say with a very high degree of certainty what is correct and what is not correct.

old fraud loves to say I lie about geology every time I post on it but to date after challenging him to provide us with an example he of course can't produce because, well he is a fraud.

And you complain about the millions of dollars that are being spent by the lobbyists and ignorethe BILLIONS that have allready been squandered. Last time I checked a billion was bigger than a million. But maybe not on your planet.

-------------------------------------

You didn't answer my question.

We only have ONE planet to inhabit. You can call yourself anything you wish, but there are scientific TRUTHS that undeniable, unless you are an apothecary that prescribed calomel and bloodletting to cure George Washington, we know about certain geological sustances that harm human beings.

If you are a geologist, then this segment of RFK Jr's speech should be crystal clear for you to understand and digest. And if you are a geologist, you know the dangers of dumping rock, debris and rubble into a waterways. It should make you very angry...because the 'scientists' and the policies they promote are the SAME 'scientist's you support. It is and will kill human beings!!!

----------------------------------------------

We know a lot about mercury we didn’t know a few years ago. We know for example, that one out of every six, now one out of every three, American women has so much mercury in her womb that her children are at risk for a grim inventory of diseases: autism, blindness, mental retardation, heart, liver, kidney disease.

I have so much mercury in my body, I had my levels tested recently, and Waterkeeper will test your levels, you can send them a hair sample. Mine are about double what the EPA considers safe. I was told by Dr. David Carpenter, who is the national authority on mercury contamination, that a woman with my levels of mercury in her blood would have children with impairment. I said to him, “You mean she might have” and he said, “No, the science is very certain today. Her children would have some kind of permanent brain damage.” He estimated an IQ loss in those kids of about five to seven points.

Well, we have 630,000 children who are born in America every year who have been exposed to dangerous levels of mercury in their mother’s wombs. President Clinton, recognizing the gravity of this national health epidemic, reclassified mercury as a hazardous pollutant under the Clean Air Act. That triggered the requirement that all of those companies remove 90 percent of the mercury within three and a half years. It would have cost less than one percent of plant revenue, a great deal for the American people. We have the technology, it exists, we already require it in states like Massachusetts.

But it still meant billions of dollars for that industry, and that’s the industry that gave $100 million to this president, and about 12 weeks ago the White House announced that it was abolishing the Clinton-era rules and substituting instead rules that were written by utility industry lobbyists that will allow those companies to never have to clean up the mercury. The rules say on their face that they have to clean up 70 percent within 15 years, which by itself is outrageous, but in fact, the utility lawyers who wrote those rules wrote so many loopholes into them that the utilities will be able to challenge them probably successfully and certainly forever and they will never have to clean up any additional mercury.

We’re living in a science fiction nightmare today in the United States of America, where my children and the children of millions of Americans who have asthmatic kids are bringing children into a world where the air is too poisonous for them to breathe. Where my children and the children of most Americans can now no longer safely engage in the seminal primal activity of American youth, which is to go fishing with their father and mother and to come home and eat the fish — because somebody gave money to a politician.

I live three hours south of the Adirondack Mountains, the oldest protected wilderness on the face of the earth. It’s been protected since 1888. We had a right, the American people, to believe that we would be able to enjoy those pristine landscapes, the forests, the beautiful lakes for generations unspoiled. But today, one fifth of the lakes in the Adirondacks are now sterilized from acid rain, which has also destroyed the forest cover on the high peaks of the Appalachians from Georgia all the way up into Northern Quebec, and this president has put the brakes on the statutory requirements that those companies, those coal-burning power plants clean up the acid rain. As a direct result of that decision, this year for the first time since the passage of the Clean Air Act, sulfur dioxide levels went up in our country an astronomical four percent in a single year.

The person who gave me this t-shirt talked about mountaintop mining a few minutes ago. A year ago in May, I flew over the coal fields of Kentucky and West Virginia, and I saw where the coal is coming from. If the American people could see what I saw, there would be a revolution in this country, because we are cutting down the Appalachian mountains. These historic landscapes where Daniel Boone and Davey Crockett roamed are the source of our values and our culture, and we’re cutting them down with these giant machines called drag lines. They’re 22 stories high, they cost half a billion dollars, and they practically dispense with the need for human labor and that, of course, is the point.

I remember when my father was fighting strip mining back in the 60s, a conversation I had with him at the dinner table where he said they are not only destroying the environment, but they are permanently impoverishing these communities because there is no way that you can generate an economy from the moonscapes that they leave behind, and they’re doing it so that they can break the unions, and he was right. In 1968 when he told me that, there were 114,000 unionized mine workers taking coal out of tunnels in West Virginia.

Today there are only 11,000 miners left in the state, and almost none of them are unionized because the strip industry isn’t. Using these giant machines and 25 tons of dynamite that they explode in West Virginia every day, a Hiroshima bomb every week. They are blowing the tops off the mountains, and then they take these giant machines and they scrape the rubble and debris into the adjacent river valley. Well, it’s all illegal. You cannot dump rock and debris and rubble into a waterway in the United States of America without a Clean Water Act permit. So Joe Lovitz sued them, and he won in front of a great crusty old West Virginia judge, Judge Charles Hayden, who recently died. Charles Hayden said the same thing I said, he said, “It’s all illegal, all of it,” and he enjoined all mountaintop mining.

Two days from when we got that decision, Peabody Coal and Massey Coal, who had given millions of dollars to this White House, met in the White House, and the White House rewrote one word of the Clean Water Act. The definition of the word fill that changed 30 years of statutory interpretation to make it legal today as it is in every state in the United States to dump rock, debris, rubble, construction debris, garbage, any kind of solid waste into any waterway in this country without a Clean Water Act permit. All you need is a rubber stamp permit from the Corps of Engineers that, in many cases, you can get through the mail. It has none of the safeguards that the Clean Water Act provides. And this is what we’re fighting today. This is not just a battle to save the environment. This is the subversion of our democracy.

The industry and the great big polluters and their indentured servants and our political process have done a great job, and their PR firms and their faulty [biostitutes] and all these think tanks on Capitol Hill, have done a great job over the past couple of decades of marginalizing the environmental movement, of marginalizing us as radicals, as tree huggers, as I heard the other day, pagans who worship trees and sacrifice people. But there is nothing radical about the idea of clean air and clean water for our children. As I said before, we’re not protecting the environment for the sake of the fishes and the birds and the trees. We’re protecting it for our own sake, because it’s the infrastructure of our communities and because it enriches us.

 

[Foxfyre]

And then I saw how visciously Senator Inhofe's list of more than 400 respected and well credentialed scientists who are skeptics has been savaged by the AGW religionists.
-----------------------------

This sentence proves you're no more open minded on the subject than those you're criticizing. Using the phrase "AGW religionists" tags you as someone who ISN'T even handed and DOES have a dog in the fight.

Not at all. It is a way of describing the hateful, mean spirited, and fanatical who are unwilling to consider anything but the religion of AGW as the right and righteous way. I have never pretended to be open minded about such people. They are willing to hurt anybody to further an agenda.

The fact that you would attack me and the phrase I used rather than address the principle of the statement does perhaps say something about you? Something uncomplimentary about you?

I AM open minded to global warming, even AGW, however, if somebody can make a credible case that is better than the one the skeptics are making.