Zone1 Mary Is The Mother Of Jesus Christ, She Isn't Actually Jesus Christ

[Meriweather]

We do fundamentally disagree, however, on the status of Mary. We view her as one of God's imperfect people, chosen and set apart for a very important task and blessed by God to carry an incredibly heavy burden.

Different perspectives are okay. Let them both simply be. I understand your points.

Catholics, and I base this on what I've seen and heard about Catholic dogma, view her as some kind of superhuman, sinless (even though no one other than Yeshua has ever been totally sinless) blend of divine and human, kind of like Yeshua Himself. Now, consider what that means. If she was actually sinless, she did not NEED Christ's sacrifice to be justified before God, and SHE could have gone to the cross instead of Him, being a perfect sacrifice. That also means that Christ did not need to sacrifice Himself at all, because it was possible for a person to remain sinless and not need His sacrifice.

No, Catholics do not view Mary as superhuman. The belief is that Mary was preserved from the original sin and the fall of mankind as she was chosen to be the vessel, the mother, of Jesus, the Word of God. The Ark of the Covenant was also a vessel carrying the Word of God (the Ten Commandments) and God's presence.

We read Mary's response after receiving the news from the angel: "My spirit rejoices in God my Savior!" Notice the present tense. The angel recognizes that Mary is filled with grace, and Mary recognizes this grace as being from God who has saved her. She rejoices.

Mary is what was intended for Eve to be. Just as a woman and a man were intended to be obedient to God, first the woman fell and then the man. Isn't it rather magnificent in God's story of salvation we see, first, the woman (who by the same grace once provided Eve) is now choosing choosing obedience to God ("Let it be done to according to your Word"). Then, the man (the second Adam) also perfectly obedient and him unto death.

This is the salvation story and we are awestruck by it. Mary was chosen and anointed to have a significant role in God's plan for salvation. How can anyone remain awestruck when dismissing Mary? For the fallen male, God anointed a man to be perfectly obedient. Who was disobedient before the man--Eve, the mother of all. Why wouldn't God then first raise up and save the mother--Mary.

If God raised up a man to be the new Adam, isn't it unlikely he would leave undone the raising up of a new Eve?

Catholics no more worship Mary than they worship Eve. Both Mary and Eve were solely human. Jesus has two natures, one human and one Divine/Deity. We worship the Divine; we praise Mary, honoring her role in the story of salvation. It (God's story) is amazing.

I can't accept that, because Yeshua prayed desperately in the garden for some other way to accomplish His goal other than what He suffered. Do you not think that if it were possible for a person to be justified before God without His sacrifice, He would have taken it? She was a normal person, blessed by God, a sinner saved by His grace and her faith in Him.

I understand your perspective.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

Lot's of good reasons for discussing other subjects. But I'm asking you what your good reason is for discussing this subject. What's your purpose here?

To trigger you. And it's working.

 

[ding]

To trigger you. And it's working.

Not really. I'm ten times the troll you will ever be. I troll the trolls.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

Mankind was meant to have a perfect spiritual existence and and a perfect physical existence. At some point disobedience made our physical existence imperfect. "The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak" is a good summary. The truth being offered is an understanding of the human condition.

That's not a truth, it's a psyop. It's a way of conning people into obedience of the priestly class.

 

[ding]

That's not a truth, it's a psyop. It's a way of conning people into obedience of the priestly class.

Do you believe all behaviors have equal outcomes?

 

[LeroyDumonde]

That's not what she was saying. And saying that Christianity is on par with Scientology is as idiotic as saying the existence of Santa Claus is just as plausible as the existence of God.

At least Santa Claus demonstrated his existence by putting presents under the tree. That's more than any god ever did. And we also know that Santa Claus was based on a real historical person. Christians can't even come up with evidence that Jesus ever existed

 

[Road Runner]

I troll the trolls.

Hey! I was doing it first... Oh wait, you've been a member since 2016. I guess I'll just troll the ones who troll the trolls instead. (You know I'm just being difficult right? )

 

[BreezeWood]

Christians can't even come up with evidence that Jesus ever existed

that's because the christian bible is written by the crucifiers who destroyed the works of jesus to substitute their own nefarious objectives.

jesus was not alone many paradisians gave their lives in the 1st century that is historically recorded their repudiation of the false religion of judaism and what jesus did teach, liberation theology, self determination than the desert religions of servitude and denial.

 

[Batcat]

A man is wise not to take the "magic book" at face value.

If the “Magic Book” is right a man is a fool to ignore it.

 

[ding]

At least Santa Claus demonstrated his existence by putting presents under the tree. That's more than any god ever did. And we also know that Santa Claus was based on a real historical person. Christians can't even come up with evidence that Jesus ever existed

24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise.

 

[BreezeWood]

If the “Magic Book” is right a man is a fool to ignore it.

no, to free ones spirit for judgement and admission to the everlasting the furthest they are from the desert religions of servitude and denial - the better. and definitely not die a sinner.

 

[BreezeWood]

24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise.

no, not one of your makebelieve documents ever existed much less copies as nothing in them was of any value to be saved.

 

[ding]

no, to free ones spirit for judgement and admission to the everlasting the furthest they are from the desert religions of servitude and denial - the better. and definitely not die a sinner.

How many other people do you believe believe as you do?

Is it a small number like a basketball team or a big number like China?

 

[ding]

no, not one of your makebelieve documents ever existed much less copies as nothing in them was of any value to be saved.

24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise.

 

[BreezeWood]

How many other people do you believe believe as you do?

so many ... come push to shove ...

jesus, and the paradisians that gave their lives in repudiation of the false religion of judaism - and not the crucifiers that wrote the christian bible as yourself who roam aimlessly to hinder all that is good. trolls of ill repute.

 

[ding]

so many ... come push to shove ...

jesus, and the paradisians that gave their lives in repudiation of the false religion of judaism - and not the crucifiers that wrote the christian bible as yourself who roam aimlessly to hinder all that is good. trolls of ill repute.

You misspelled the number one. But I would give almost anything to see you try to shove.

 

[BreezeWood]

24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise.

no, not one of your makebelieve documents ever existed much less copies as nothing of their imagery is of any value to be saved.

- your religion of servitude and denial.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

24,000 written manuscripts say otherwise.

None of them written by anyone who ever saw Jesus. Since we've decided that Adam and Eve are allegorical figures why is it so hard to believe that Jesus is an allegorical figure? If allegorical figures can curse men with imperfection then why can't an allegorical figure redeem men into perfection?

 

[1srelluc]

If the “Magic Book” is right a man is a fool to ignore it.

Keeping it (and those that subscribe to it) at arm's length has served me well thus far in a "if you don't mess with me, I won't mess with you" type of way.....Seems to work.

 

[BreezeWood]

You misspelled the number one. But I would give almost anything to see you try to shove.

trolls have a distinct slime that when touched is most odiferous - in your case maybe a cannon would be a better means of discipline.