Marriage Matters: Consequences of Redefining Marriage

[Seawytch]

And are you taking a militant stance on that too?

Oooh, "militant". Makes us sound so scary.

I'm not talking to an "us," I'm talking to a "you." Don't be afraid to be an individual instead of basing your entire identity on group association.

What is it that you ascribe as "militant"? Like I said, if fighting for your rights is "militant", great, print me up a fucking t-shirt.

 

[Seawytch]

Yo, seawytch. which of you wytches gets the cards and presents tomorrow on fathers day?

I am guessing you, because you seem like the butch.

Nope. The only people that gets a Father's day gifts/cards are my Dad, my spouse's Dad and my Grandpa.

We celebrate Female Parents Day.

 

[Redfish]

You aren't forced to accept it, you just have to treat it equally under the law. Your backwoods state will still be free to think gays are icky and deny them marriage equality, but if my forward thinking state issues marriage licenses to gays, the Federal Government must equally recognize those.

I'm guessing you live in a red state that gets back more from the Feds than they pay into. Mine isn't. I'm in one of those blue states that supports the red states. I'm a tax paying citizen deserving of those rights, benefits and protections.

SW "logic": I'm different in my sexual orientation but I demand to be the same as you when it comes time for government handouts...

If you want "equality" sweetie than you have to do like everyone else who is a woman and marry a man. You made your bed, you have to sleep in it

Negative. The contention is that I am legally married in the State of California and it is unconstitutional for the Federal Government not to treat all legal marriages equally under the law.

poor wytchey, it must suck to be you. all confused and frustrated.

 

[Redfish]

Yo, seawytch. which of you wytches gets the cards and presents tomorrow on fathers day?

I am guessing you, because you seem like the butch.

Nope. The only people that gets a Father's day gifts/cards are my Dad, my spouse's Dad and my Grandpa.

We celebrate Female Parents Day.

HMMM,,,female parents day is known to all sane people as mother's day. But I can understand your confusion.

 

[Seawytch]

WOW! You are one dense lefty...

Nobody is talking abgout "widely" accepted... the concept is "accepted at all".

Gays aren't really "widely" accpeted ANYWHERE! ...except among themselves. They are are starting to be tolerated --- and that, frankly, is the root of the problem. America needs to wake up and realize that we don't have to tolerate things that are morally wrong. It's OK to stand up and say "THAT IS WRONG!"

We are too worried about hurting peoples feelings, or making people mad. If we don't stand up for what is right - we are certain to end up with what is wrong!

You're living in a bigoted past that doesn't exist anymore. Most people don't believe that gay and lesbian relationships are morally wrong.

In U.S., Record-High Say Gay, Lesbian Relations Morally OK

Wake up and smell 2013...

You post a link that is an illustration of the decline of morals in America --- and suggest that because of the decline in morals in America that makes your lifestyle OK?

HAHAHAHA!! Are you freakin' serious???

No, I posted a link in direct contention with your claim that "gays weren't widely accepted anywhere" and you implied that everyone thought we were "morally wrong". That is not a true statement. Most people don't think we're "morally wrong".

It isn't because of a decline in values that is occurring, it is because more and more people are likely to know someone who is gay or lesbian. As more of us come out of the closet, it become increasingly difficult NOT to know and love someone who is gay or lesbian. It's really easy to hate someone who is "other", but when it's a family member or loved one...it's a lot harder.

 

[Seawytch]

SW "logic": I'm different in my sexual orientation but I demand to be the same as you when it comes time for government handouts...

If you want "equality" sweetie than you have to do like everyone else who is a woman and marry a man. You made your bed, you have to sleep in it

Negative. The contention is that I am legally married in the State of California and it is unconstitutional for the Federal Government not to treat all legal marriages equally under the law.

poor wytchey, it must suck to be you. all confused and frustrated.

Wow, Fishy, you're really on your game in the morning.

It doesn't suck to be me and while there are things I don't understand, like quantum physics, I'm not confused about this. I'm quite clear on wanting my legal marriage treated equally under the law.

 

[Redfish]

You're living in a bigoted past that doesn't exist anymore. Most people don't believe that gay and lesbian relationships are morally wrong.

In U.S., Record-High Say Gay, Lesbian Relations Morally OK

Wake up and smell 2013...

You post a link that is an illustration of the decline of morals in America --- and suggest that because of the decline in morals in America that makes your lifestyle OK?

HAHAHAHA!! Are you freakin' serious???

No, I posted a link in direct contention with your claim that "gays weren't widely accepted anywhere" and you implied that everyone thought we were "morally wrong". That is not a true statement. Most people don't think we're "morally wrong".

It isn't because of a decline in values that is occurring, it is because more and more people are likely to know someone who is gay or lesbian. As more of us come out of the closet, it become increasingly difficult NOT to know and love someone who is gay or lesbian. It's really easy to hate someone who is "other", but when it's a family member or loved one...it's a lot harder.

your spin attempt is noted. Its not about acceptance. I think most people accept gays and lesbians, there is debate about whether its genetic or a choice, but the majority accept that some people are gay.

But again, thats not your issue. You want the government to mandate that everyone give moral credibility to your relationship by calling it a marriage.

You are not satifiied with a civil union that provides all of the rights and benefits of a man/woman marriage. You are trying to force thought control by government mandate----and that is a violation of the first amendment.

 

[Seawytch]

Yo, seawytch. which of you wytches gets the cards and presents tomorrow on fathers day?

I am guessing you, because you seem like the butch.

Nope. The only people that gets a Father's day gifts/cards are my Dad, my spouse's Dad and my Grandpa.

We celebrate Female Parents Day.

HMMM,,,female parents day is known to all sane people as mother's day. But I can understand your confusion.

I'm sure my Mother will be amused to know that some anonymous, obsessive freak (that is asking her daughter personal questions unrelated to the discussion thread) thinks she's insane. She came up with the idea and makes her own cards for the occasion. I'll be seeing her at her annual garden party later. I'll be certain to pass your thoughts along.

 

[Redfish]

Negative. The contention is that I am legally married in the State of California and it is unconstitutional for the Federal Government not to treat all legal marriages equally under the law.

poor wytchey, it must suck to be you. all confused and frustrated.

Wow, Fishy, you're really on your game in the morning.

It doesn't suck to be me and while there are things I don't understand, like quantum physics, I'm not confused about this. I'm quite clear on wanting my legal marriage treated equally under the law.

Your union is treated equally under the law. we both know that is not your real issue.

 

[Seawytch]

You post a link that is an illustration of the decline of morals in America --- and suggest that because of the decline in morals in America that makes your lifestyle OK?

HAHAHAHA!! Are you freakin' serious???

No, I posted a link in direct contention with your claim that "gays weren't widely accepted anywhere" and you implied that everyone thought we were "morally wrong". That is not a true statement. Most people don't think we're "morally wrong".

It isn't because of a decline in values that is occurring, it is because more and more people are likely to know someone who is gay or lesbian. As more of us come out of the closet, it become increasingly difficult NOT to know and love someone who is gay or lesbian. It's really easy to hate someone who is "other", but when it's a family member or loved one...it's a lot harder.

your spin attempt is noted. Its not about acceptance. I think most people accept gays and lesbians, there is debate about whether its genetic or a choice, but the majority accept that some people are gay.

But again, thats not your issue. You want the government to mandate that everyone give moral credibility to your relationship by calling it a marriage.

You are not satifiied with a civil union that provides all of the rights and benefits of a man/woman marriage. You are trying to force thought control by government mandate----and that is a violation of the first amendment.

How many times do I have to repeat this for it to sink in Fishy? So many times that you run off in a huff just to come creeping back?

It's not about the word for me, it's about the equality. You can change the name. Go ahead, I won't stop you. Make it so that every non familial consenting adult couple that wishes to join in partnership gets a civil union and I will be not only fine with it, I'd be overjoyed.

What is unacceptable is setting up something different just for "the gheys". That is the epitome of "separate but equal" and we know how that has turned out for this country historically don't we?

And it's not like we're the ones saying no to civil unions. Fuck, a handful of states even have Constitutional amendments barring not just "marriage" but civil unions for same sex couples.

 

[Redfish]

Nope. The only people that gets a Father's day gifts/cards are my Dad, my spouse's Dad and my Grandpa.

We celebrate Female Parents Day.

HMMM,,,female parents day is known to all sane people as mother's day. But I can understand your confusion.

I'm sure my Mother will be amused to know that some anonymous, obsessive freak (that is asking her daughter personal questions unrelated to the discussion thread) thinks she's insane. She came up with the idea and makes her own cards for the occasion. I'll be seeing her at her annual garden party later. I'll be certain to pass your thoughts along.

great, please remind her of her high school biology class where she learned that two females cannot reproduce and become parents. unless you are amoebas or some lichens. Well hyenas do have both male and female sex organs at some time in their lives.

I am really not trying to insult you, but its almost impossible to respond to your foolishness without insulting.

Does she make cards for polygamists too-----multiple mothers day? group sex day? whose yo daddy day? where does this shit end?

 

[Seawytch]

poor wytchey, it must suck to be you. all confused and frustrated.

Wow, Fishy, you're really on your game in the morning.

It doesn't suck to be me and while there are things I don't understand, like quantum physics, I'm not confused about this. I'm quite clear on wanting my legal marriage treated equally under the law.

Your union is treated equally under the law. we both know that is not your real issue.

Right...that's why DOMA has been found unconstitutional time and again. Jesus, Fish you're not even fucking trying.

 

[Redfish]

No, I posted a link in direct contention with your claim that "gays weren't widely accepted anywhere" and you implied that everyone thought we were "morally wrong". That is not a true statement. Most people don't think we're "morally wrong".

It isn't because of a decline in values that is occurring, it is because more and more people are likely to know someone who is gay or lesbian. As more of us come out of the closet, it become increasingly difficult NOT to know and love someone who is gay or lesbian. It's really easy to hate someone who is "other", but when it's a family member or loved one...it's a lot harder.

your spin attempt is noted. Its not about acceptance. I think most people accept gays and lesbians, there is debate about whether its genetic or a choice, but the majority accept that some people are gay.

But again, thats not your issue. You want the government to mandate that everyone give moral credibility to your relationship by calling it a marriage.

You are not satifiied with a civil union that provides all of the rights and benefits of a man/woman marriage. You are trying to force thought control by government mandate----and that is a violation of the first amendment.

How many times do I have to repeat this for it to sink in Fishy? So many times that you run off in a huff just to come creeping back?

It's not about the word for me, it's about the equality. You can change the name. Go ahead, I won't stop you. Make it so that every non familial consenting adult couple that wishes to join in partnership gets a civil union and I will be not only fine with it, I'd be overjoyed.

What is unacceptable is setting up something different just for "the gheys". That is the epitome of "separate but equal" and we know how that has turned out for this country historically don't we?

And it's not like we're the ones saying no to civil unions. Fuck, a handful of states even have Constitutional amendments barring not just "marriage" but civil unions for same sex couples.

I have told you many times, I have no issue with you and your partner having equal rights with man/woman marriages. But I do have an issue with your trying to change 3000 years of culture by changing the definition of marriage.

YOU AND YOUR PARTNER ARE NOT MARRIED, YOU ARE IN A COMMITTED LESBIAN RELATIONSHIP.

I am done with you on this topic. talking to you is like talking to a tomato worm as he eats the leaves of the plant and gets fatter by the minute.

 

[Seawytch]

HMMM,,,female parents day is known to all sane people as mother's day. But I can understand your confusion.

I'm sure my Mother will be amused to know that some anonymous, obsessive freak (that is asking her daughter personal questions unrelated to the discussion thread) thinks she's insane. She came up with the idea and makes her own cards for the occasion. I'll be seeing her at her annual garden party later. I'll be certain to pass your thoughts along.

great, please remind her of her high school biology class where she learned that two females cannot reproduce and become parents. unless you are amoebas or some lichens. Well hyenas do have both male and female sex organs at some time in their lives.

I am really not trying to insult you, but its almost impossible to respond to your foolishness without insulting.

Does she make cards for polygamists too-----multiple mothers day? group sex day? whose yo daddy day? where does this shit end?

No Fishy, that's not what makes a parent. That's what makes a sire, but not a parent. You're "insulting" (more like a 3rd grader) people who adopt children. Do you realize that?

My spouse and I are the only parents our children know. We are their parents emotionally and legally.

There are already cards for step-parents (multiple mothers). I'll ignore the other ridiculous equivalencies you threw out as you not having enough coffee yet...or just you living up to your "redfish" (herring) name.

 

[Seawytch]

your spin attempt is noted. Its not about acceptance. I think most people accept gays and lesbians, there is debate about whether its genetic or a choice, but the majority accept that some people are gay.

But again, thats not your issue. You want the government to mandate that everyone give moral credibility to your relationship by calling it a marriage.

You are not satifiied with a civil union that provides all of the rights and benefits of a man/woman marriage. You are trying to force thought control by government mandate----and that is a violation of the first amendment.

How many times do I have to repeat this for it to sink in Fishy? So many times that you run off in a huff just to come creeping back?

It's not about the word for me, it's about the equality. You can change the name. Go ahead, I won't stop you. Make it so that every non familial consenting adult couple that wishes to join in partnership gets a civil union and I will be not only fine with it, I'd be overjoyed.

What is unacceptable is setting up something different just for "the gheys". That is the epitome of "separate but equal" and we know how that has turned out for this country historically don't we?

And it's not like we're the ones saying no to civil unions. Fuck, a handful of states even have Constitutional amendments barring not just "marriage" but civil unions for same sex couples.

I have told you many times, I have no issue with you and your partner having equal rights with man/woman marriages. But I do have an issue with your trying to change 3000 years of culture by changing the definition of marriage.

Great, so get the name changed. I'm all for it. Have all 50 states and the Federal government change ALL of their documents and references to reference, not civil marriage, but civil unions and I'm right there with you. Let's leave "marriage" to the churches as it should be. I'll call my representatives if you call yours.

YOU AND YOUR PARTNER ARE NOT MARRIED, YOU ARE IN A COMMITTED LESBIAN RELATIONSHIP.

That's not what my marriage license issued by the State of California says. It says I'm married and the case before the Supreme Court is not whether or not I'm being treated equally under the law, it is clear I am not. What is before the court is whether or not it should be. Since there is no sane argument to keep the Federal Government from treating my legal marriage any differently than yours, it's pretty clear how DOMA Section 3 is going to turn out.

I am done with you on this topic. talking to you is like talking to a tomato worm as he eats the leaves of the plant and gets fatter by the minute.

And there he/she goes again. This makes I think about a half dozen times Fishy has stomped off. I'm sure you'll be back for more when you're done licking your wounds. Come back for the SCOTUS decision won't you? It will be around the 26th or 27th if the SCOTUS Blog is to be believed.

 

[JohnA]

It's just one of the over 1,000 rights that gays are denied here in the U.S. No, that isn't a typo.

Gee, I could have sworn our constitution guarantees equal rights for all.[/QUOTE
]it does and it aplies to you
under the law any legally sane american citiizen can MARRY a single person not related to them of legal age who is wiling and of the opposite sex .

garranteed by the constitution
WERE DOES THAT NOT APPLY TO YOU ??..
Oi forgot you want the law changed

thats a differant argumant

 

[JohnA]

This is so far beyond absurd, there literally are no adjectives in the English language which properly covers if.

What is there to "question"? If you're born with a penis, you are a man. If you're born with a vagina, you are a woman. It couldn't possibly be any more indisputable. What's next - question if the planet is really round? Question if 2+2=4? I know, why don't we question if we all actually exist?

God Almighty...

You just jump without reading don't you? I said the "Q" was people questioning their orientation...as in they aren't sure they are gay or lesbian. People with Gender Identity Disorder know it from an early age.

Thanks for the science and factual link. There is so much ignorance and fear about this issue when really, its just no one's business.

Why can't the r's just leave consenting adults alone to live their lives?

i agree you should be able to sleep with whom you like as long as they agree.

your sister.brother .mother father ,daughter/son . spouse next door, 2/.3 other people , same sex person .
in fact anybody you choose and the govt should *mind its own fucking business

 

[Unkotare]

Like I said, if fighting for your rights is "militant", great, print me up a fucking t-shirt.

We've already established that you want more than just your rights.

 

[Seawytch]

Like I said, if fighting for your rights is "militant", great, print me up a fucking t-shirt.

We've already established that you want more than just your rights.

Oh, where have "we" established that?

 

[Unkotare]

Like I said, if fighting for your rights is "militant", great, print me up a fucking t-shirt.

We've already established that you want more than just your rights.

Oh, where have "we" established that?

There are 92 pages here of YOU establishing that.