Man Made Global Warming KOOKS

[Oddball]

More proof that it's not about energy or the environment...It's about envirowackaloon dogma.

 

[Old Rocks]

Thats great Rocks, more imported wind turbines to be erected here taking up more land and burning fossil fuel to build,tranport, and maintain them. Thats the whole point of the last few comments Rocks, to champion one form of energy and condemn another and not recognize that every form of energy generation poses risk to the environment is to be less than honest in the debate on energy for this nation. In fact the mantra said over and over again that cap and trade would create green jobs while in some cases may be true , it won't create many green jobs where they are needed most and thats in this country.

Hmmm........ Did you not notice that the site of manufacture is to be in Windsor, Colorado? Last time I looked, Colorado was still considered part of the United States. And the state lies just South and West of the states with the greatest wind potential, Wyoming, Montana, North and South Dakota, and Nebraska. There is both good roads, and rail from Colorado to all of these states.

 

[Old Rocks]

By Art Mass

PUEBLO - Another major renewables energy business is coming to Colorado - one with a very familiar name. Wind-turbine maker Vestas Wind Systems has selected Pueblo as the site of a factory to build the towers that support its turbines, and according to the company, it will be the biggest turbine-tower factory in the world.

The formal announcement was made last Friday in Pueblo where business and community leaders celebrated one of the biggest economic development announcements in years.

Company on a Roll

This latest expansion news from Vestas follows the Danish
company’s announcement earlier this month that it will build
two plants in Brighton to make turbine blades and nacelles -
the turbine housings that include the generator, transformer
and gearbox. Vestas already has a blade-making plant in
Windsor, which currently has 200 workers and is expected to
have 650 at full employment.

Vestas plans to invest $240 million in Pueblo to build the
world’s largest wind tower facility and it hopes to be
manufacturing towers for its windmills by this time next year.

Eventually, the Danish manufacturer will eventually employ
nearly 2,500 people statewide.
Pueblo Lands Vestas Wind Tower Plant — Colorado Energy News

 

[Oddball]

Assembly plants and corporate headquarters don't change the fact that most of the parts are manufactured overseas, or that there are no "environmentally sensitive" ways to mine and smelt metals.

 

[Old Rocks]

Vestas Wind Systems to add 200 workers in Portland
Danish company, however, passes up Oregon for $25 million research center
Wednesday, June 04, 2008
RICHARD READ
The Oregonian Staff
Vestas Wind Systems passed up Oregon for a $25 million research center, but state officials expect the Danish company to add more than 200 Portland workers.

Vestas -- the world's top turbine maker, with U.S. headquarters in Portland -- already employs more than 300 here. The company is riding rapid expansion in the wind-power industry, propelled by ballooning costs of conventional energy and government mandates for alternatives.
Vestas Wind Systems to add 200 workers in Portland - OregonLive.com

 

[Old Rocks]

GE Expecting Growth for Greenville Built Turbines
Tagged with: Alternative energy Windmills
When the U.S. market for General Electric’s giant gas turbine electric power generators collapsed a few years ago, GE Energy’s engineers quickly regrouped and developed a major business line in wind turbine generators.

Today, the company’s Greenville plant on Garlington Road is again humming with activity, building these 60-ton engines of renewable energy.

GE also has been driving new activity at the Port of Charleston. S.C. State Ports Authority officials recently announced that the National Shipping Co. of Saudi Arabia has added Charleston to its East Coast ports rotation. The decision was driven in part by the port’s proximity to General Electric’s gas turbine manufacturing plant in Greenville.

John Krenicki, vice chairman of GE and president and CEO of GE Energy Infrastructure, met recently with Greenville-area government officials and business leaders to update them on GE Energy’s Greenville operations.

He indicated that the future is bright for the company’s varied energy products, which include gas turbines, wind turbines and nuclear plants, so long as protectionist laws do not ignite a worldwide trade war that could cripple the Greenville operation’s ability to sell its products abroad.

Half the wind turbines in use in the United States today are made by GE, he said. And the company sees an equally positive outlook for the giant, new-technology windmills abroad.

http://scforgreen.com/2009/04/ge-expecting-growth-for-greenville-built-turbines/

 

[Old Rocks]

Assembly plants and corporate headquarters don't change the fact that most of the parts are manufactured overseas, or that there are no "environmentally sensitive" ways to mine and smelt metals.

Dude, these posts are for people with some intelligence. You can just ignore them.

 

[Oddball]

So, where are the copper and steel mills and metals workings plants for the parts for those windmills, eh??

C'mon...dazzle us with your interrigence, Old Rocksinthhead.

 

[Navy1960]

Rocks you do know the difference between and Assembly plant and a plant that actually makes the parts necessary for it's use correct? Dude's assertion that during this process that fossil fuels are used in it's build process are very correct and tranportation to site are also correct and mining, etc etc. Further, if your using this as an indication of "green jobs" being created that logic fails as well. While assembly plants for some of these wind generators may create a few thousand jobs, tell me how many jobs the average wind farm employs long term when compared to the average nuclear plant? Secondly, the worlds largest maker of Solar, lithium-ion batteries, and technologies are not in this nation. What you will see is a creation of jobs, and the green industry won't be any different than any other when it comes to competetion.

We are extremely pleased to be building Vestas’ largest nacelle assembly factory to date. Denver and the surrounding areas give us direct access to a large, qualified workforce, and this was one of the primary reasons for choosing Brighton,” says Søren Husted, President of Vestas Nacelles A/S. “Our new factory will be designed according to the most efficient Lean manufacturing principles, and we expect Brighton to become the center for Vestas Nacelles’ activities in the USA.”
In order to establish a complete supply chain for the factory in Brighton, Vestas Nacelles will set up a purchasing office in Chicago, Illinois to be close to the extensive northeast network of suppliers. A combined Technology and Production Engineering office will also be established at the Brighton facility to equip the factories with the right quality and continuous improvement competences.

Sorry but because a Danish company decides to set up assembly plants in this nation for site oriented wind generation does not equate to green jobs, nor does it reduce any of the associate carbon footprint associated with it's construction. The bottom line here is this, wind energy will NOT meet the needs of this nation no matter how many windmills you put up the largest windfarm in the world is in South America and it puts out 1/50th the amout of power that a nuclear plant does and costs 3 billion dollars more to build and takes up 16000 acres more than a nuclear plant. I am not anti-wind power but then again I don't operate under the mistaken impression that wind energy and solar are the total solution for all this nations energy needs nor am I under the mistaken impression that by implementing a carbon trading scheme to reduce so-called global warming will you create green massive numbers of green jobs, here let me give you an example of how the math works.. ..

DENVER – Colorado’s seasonally adjusted unemployment rate remained unchanged in June at 7.6 percent, according to Donald J. Mares, Executive Director of the Colorado Department of Labor and Employment. “Colorado’s unemployment rate rose in lockstep with the nation’s from September to March, although since March, unemployment in the state has stabilized while the national rate has continued to climb,” noted Mares. “Colorado has experienced one of the smallest increases in the unemployment rate in the nation from March to June,” Mares continued.



The household survey’s seasonally adjusted estimate of the number of employed Colorado residents fell 18,300 during the month to 2,495,900. This is a drop of 100,300 from last June’s total of 2,596,200. Unemployment, meanwhile, decreased 3,000 during the month but has risen 73,500 from a year ago.


Two industries that were drivers behind Colorado’s expansion—construction and professional and business services—have seen payrolls shrink the most over the past year. Construction is off 25,500, or 15 percent, and professional and business services has retreated 29,800, or 8 percent. Substantial declines have also occurred in trade, transportation and utilities, down 16,200; manufacturing, off 15,400; and leisure and hospitality, down 13,600. Payrolls in financial activities have fallen 9,500 while information has declined 4,500. Employment in mining and logging has shrunk 3,200 from twelve months ago....
June 2009 Colorado PRESS RELEASE

So you create around 2500 new "green jobs" and that offsets the 100,000 jobs lost so basically what you have is for every new green job created you have 2 jobs lost.

 

[Sinatra]

Rocks you do know the difference between and Assembly plant and a plant that actually makes the parts necessary for it's use correct? Dude's assertion that during this process that fossil fuels are used in it's build process are very correct and tranportation to site are also correct and mining, etc etc. Further, if your using this as an indication of "green jobs" being created that logic fails as well. While assembly plants for some of these wind generators may create a few thousand jobs, tell me how many jobs the average wind farm employs long term when compared to the average nuclear plant? Secondly, the worlds largest maker of Solar, lithium-ion batteries, and technologies are not in this nation. What you will see is a creation of jobs, and the green industry won't be any different than any other when it comes to competetion.

We are extremely pleased to be building Vestas’ largest nacelle assembly factory to date. Denver and the surrounding areas give us direct access to a large, qualified workforce, and this was one of the primary reasons for choosing Brighton,” says Søren Husted, President of Vestas Nacelles A/S. “Our new factory will be designed according to the most efficient Lean manufacturing principles, and we expect Brighton to become the center for Vestas Nacelles’ activities in the USA.”
In order to establish a complete supply chain for the factory in Brighton, Vestas Nacelles will set up a purchasing office in Chicago, Illinois to be close to the extensive northeast network of suppliers. A combined Technology and Production Engineering office will also be established at the Brighton facility to equip the factories with the right quality and continuous improvement competences.

Sorry but because a Danish company decides to set up assembly plants in this nation for site oriented wind generation does not equate to green jobs, nor does it reduce any of the associate carbon footprint associated with it's construction. The bottom line here is this, wind energy will NOT meet the needs of this nation no matter how many windmills you put up the largest windfarm in the world is in South America and it puts out 1/50th the amout of power that a nuclear plant does and costs 3 billion dollars more to build and takes up 16000 acres more than a nuclear plant. I am not anti-wind power but then again I don't operate under the mistaken impression that wind energy and solar are the total solution for all this nations energy needs nor am I under the mistaken impression that by implementing a carbon trading scheme to reduce so-called global warming will you create green massive numbers of green jobs, here let me give you an example of how the math works.. ..

DENVER – Colorado’s seasonally adjusted unemployment rate remained unchanged in June at 7.6 percent, according to Donald J. Mares, Executive Director of the Colorado Department of Labor and Employment. “Colorado’s unemployment rate rose in lockstep with the nation’s from September to March, although since March, unemployment in the state has stabilized while the national rate has continued to climb,” noted Mares. “Colorado has experienced one of the smallest increases in the unemployment rate in the nation from March to June,” Mares continued.



The household survey’s seasonally adjusted estimate of the number of employed Colorado residents fell 18,300 during the month to 2,495,900. This is a drop of 100,300 from last June’s total of 2,596,200. Unemployment, meanwhile, decreased 3,000 during the month but has risen 73,500 from a year ago.


Two industries that were drivers behind Colorado’s expansion—construction and professional and business services—have seen payrolls shrink the most over the past year. Construction is off 25,500, or 15 percent, and professional and business services has retreated 29,800, or 8 percent. Substantial declines have also occurred in trade, transportation and utilities, down 16,200; manufacturing, off 15,400; and leisure and hospitality, down 13,600. Payrolls in financial activities have fallen 9,500 while information has declined 4,500. Employment in mining and logging has shrunk 3,200 from twelve months ago....
June 2009 Colorado PRESS RELEASE

So you create around 2500 new "green jobs" and that offsets the 100,000 jobs lost so basically what you have is for every new green job created you have 2 jobs lost.

Excellent post - the Go Green Industry is premised upon a sham. It is simply a marketing plan to change out the old with the new. Job creation is minimal, and actual detrimental environmental impacts far greater, to say nothing of the negative impacts upon the United States economy as a whole.

If our politicians were truly concerned over minimizing independence upon foreign oil, we would be fast tracking new and updated nuclear facility power across the nation. We would be fast tracking cleaner burning coal energy. We would be utilizing our own oil sources far more greatly.

Our current crop of politicians are not doing that, and as a result, all Americans suffer - with more suffering to come if Obama and the statists continue to have their way...

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I'm still waiting for the Church of Man Made Climatology to spring up. Al-Gore can be the pope of the church

 

[Navy1960]

I know it's escaped a few peoples attention , but has anyone noticed that G.E. is a big player in the so called green energy business and has already created a carbon trading division for the purpose of trading carbon credits. In fact GE is part of a number of companies that lobby congress for it's passage and wouldn't you know G.E. is also in the wind energy business. Al Gore on the other hand is vested in his own carbon trading company in London , so spare me the noble idea that this cap and trade scheme has anything to do with creating jobs or saving the environment. It has everything to do with making a select few people a lot of money. It's an old adage , of creating a market where non existed before. If you have a customer base that is happy with the current business model then you create an environment in which they become unhappy. i.e. Gobal Warming

 

[ozzmdj]

Government monopsony distorts climate science, says SPPI

 

[Old Rocks]

Damn, Navy, I thought you at least do a little research about where the parts of the mills come from. I know up close and personal where the some of the parts come from, specifically the big round tube that supports the turbine. We roll the steel for a great many of them in the steel mill I work in.

Simple fact. Alternative energy is getting cheaper construct every day. Traditional is getting more expensive every day. Wind is already cheaper than coal, gas, or nuclear. Same for Geo-thermal. Solar is just a couple of years away from being cheapest of all. We have had batteries capable of suppling power for an urban vehicle, 100 miles on a charge, for 15 years. A vehicle ideally suited for this type of driving was driven off the market by GM and Chevron 15 years ago.

You nihilistic ninnies can squack and squall all you want, the alternatives are here. They are going to replace the traditional power sources, to the benefit of all but the big energy corperations. Get used to it.

 

[KittenKoder]

Damn, Navy, I thought you at least do a little research about where the parts of the mills come from. I know up close and personal where the some of the parts come from, specifically the big round tube that supports the turbine. We roll the steel for a great many of them in the steel mill I work in.

Simple fact. Alternative energy is getting cheaper construct every day. Traditional is getting more expensive every day. Wind is already cheaper than coal, gas, or nuclear. Same for Geo-thermal. Solar is just a couple of years away from being cheapest of all. We have had batteries capable of suppling power for an urban vehicle, 100 miles on a charge, for 15 years. A vehicle ideally suited for this type of driving was driven off the market by GM and Chevron 15 years ago.

You nihilistic ninnies can squack and squall all you want, the alternatives are here. They are going to replace the traditional power sources, to the benefit of all but the big energy corperations. Get used to it.

If it's getting cheaper every day ... then why are the companies that make the technology charging more every day?

 

[Old Rocks]

Science and Public Policy Institute, another sham set up by the wingnuts funded by the big energy companies.

This article is part of the Climate change portal on SourceWatch.
The Science and Public Policy Institute (SPPI) is a global warming skeptics group which appears to primarily be the work of Robert Ferguson, its President.
(It is worth noting that in the late 1990's, George Carlo founded a group known as the "Science and Public Policy Institute" to work on issues such as electro-magnetic radiation and health issues. Approximately eight years later Ferguson founded his group with the identical name, oblivious to the existing of Carlo's group. Ferguson states that after registering his organization in Virginia he discovered that Carlo's group existed but by then his group had created the website and printed their stationery).[1]

The website of Ferguson's SPPI draws heavily on papers written by Christopher Monckton.

Prior to founding SPPI in approximately mid-2007, Ferguson was the Executive Director of the Center for Science and Public Policy (CSPP), a project of the corporate-funded group, the Frontiers of Freedom Institute.

SPPI describes itself as "a nonprofit institute of research and education dedicated to sound public policy based on sound science." It also proclaims that it is "free from affiliation to any corporation or political party, we support the advancement of sensible public policies for energy and the environment rooted in rational science and economics. Only through science and factual information, separating reality from rhetoric, can legislators develop beneficial policies without unintended consequences that might threaten the life, liberty, and prosperity of the citizenry."[2]
Science and Public Policy Institute - SourceWatch

 

[KittenKoder]

Oh yeah ... that's a non-partisan source ... sure.

 

[Old Rocks]

Green SupplyLine
(06/01/2009 1:38 PM EDT)




LOS ANGELES/TOKYO - A collapse in silicon prices threatens to put the heat on solar panel makers that use little of the material, such as Japan's Sharp Corp and even low-cost industry darling First Solar Inc.

Spot prices on the solar industry's key raw material, polysilicon, have halved since January, giving a leg up to solar panels that rely heavily on the material.

Thin-film solar panels, made with little or no polysilicon, are starting to lose their competitive edge over China-made silicon-based modules, which are more efficient in transforming the sun's rays into electricity.

"First Solar is still the undisputed leader, but finally, someone's competing with them," said Macquarie analyst Kelly Dougherty. Intensifying price competition is making scale all-important, hurting the chances of start-ups, she said. "If this trend continues, I wouldn't be surprised if just a handful of thin-film companies are left."

U.S.-based First Solar, the world's top thin-film company, has been snapping up large, utility-scale contracts in Europe and the United States thanks to its cadmium telluride panels that are cheaper to produce than the traditional silicon-based panels that dominate the market.

But the precipitous drop in silicon panel prices is eroding First Solar's lead.

Last month, the chief executive of German solar power plant builder and First Solar customer Phoenix Solar AG said the company was ready to shift toward silicon-based panels if prices drop far enough.

Crystalline silicon and thin film solar panels are now competing in the same markets for the same customers, Andreas Haenel said on a conference call, adding that Phoenix had been able to negotiate lower prices with First Solar as a result.

"Whenever we see that one is getting the advantage over another, we are flexible to shift from left to right and from right to left," Haenel said.

CHINESE ADVANTAGE

Polysilicon prices will continue to fall as semiconductor demand stays weak and oversupply plagues the solar sector, industry players say.

That, along with potential demand gains from a new solar subsidy in China, would further lower costs for Chinese manufacturers, who already boast processing costs of 90 cents to $1 per watt of generating capacity -- narrowing the gap with ultra-low-cost First Solar and giving Sharp and Taiwanese thin-film makers such as NexPower Technology, an affiliate of United Microelectronics Corp, a run for their money.

Green SupplyLine | Falling silicon prices pressure thin-film solar

 

[Old Rocks]

First Solar out of Tempe, Arizona, announced breakthrough news in that it is now able to manufacture thin film solar cells for less than 1 dollar per watt. 98 cents, per watt, to be exact, and this milestone has been the goal of solar companies since the beginning of solar cell production.*

First Solar was initially selling solar cells for $3.00 per watt back in 2004, their initial year of business. That price was competitive worldwide, and as demand grew and production speeded up, costs slowly began to fall. As reported here and elsewhere, the solar industry, as a whole, has grown with unprecedented growth over that time, and is slated to keep growing strongly.

The other aspect of thin film solar cells is the lower cost of installation.** There are no racks or trusses or support rails for these newest solar panels. They are merely laid out on a, preferable, flat metal roof, and literally glued on! No punching holes for mounts, no screwing or bolting required, nothing obtrusive to look at, just lay them out, glue them down, and it’s done. Chances are, no one will even notice them from the ground because they are so flat. So any business or consumer looking for panels that don’t protrude, this is the choice for you.

**Low Impact Living » Blog Archive » A Thin-Film Solar Panel Installation

In sunny weather they are not quite as efficient as standard silicone photovoltaics, but they perform better on cloudy or compromised days, essentially giving nearly equal amounts of electricity over the long run.

These panels are available now, and with the 30% solar tax credit, along with any statewide incentives, it just might be the right time to put thin film solar panels on your roof.

Solar Panels Break 1 Dollar Barrier « Cooler Planet

 

[KittenKoder]

Again ... if it's getting so cheap to make, why are they charging so much more to make it?