Magnetic Apocalypse?

[westwall]

An intersting article about the influence of magnetism on the earth. I particularly liked his opinion on AGW

"The energy mankind generates is so small compared to that overall energy budget that it simply cannot affect the climate. However, the energy budget is very under-studied because there is only a small range of observations used to measure it. This is a very complicated process.

Today we cannot measure it with 99% accuracy. Our current measurements are only 10%-15% accurate. The change must be at least 1% to change the climate.

The planet’s climate is doing its own thing, but we cannot pinpoint significant trends in changes to it because it dates back millions of years while the study of it began only recently. Some processes take seconds and other years. You cannot check man’s state of health in a matter of seconds; the process could take a fortnight and even then the result will not be definitive. The same goes for climate change. We are children of the Sun; we simply lack data to draw the proper conclusions."


Magnetic apocalypse 2012 | Opinion & analysis | RIA Novosti

 

[CrusaderFrank]

ManMade Global Warming is messing with the magnetic field too, amiright?

Has to be!

The field was stable before we choked the atmosphere with Sensitive CO2

 

[strollingbones]

so what ever happen to the magnetic poles flippin....wasnt that suppose to happen

 

[CrusaderFrank]

so what ever happen to the magnetic poles flippin....wasnt that suppose to happen

Google: South Atlantic Magnetic anomaly.

I'm not sure you want to be here when they flip.

 

[Old Rocks]

The magnetic poles flip quite often on a geological time scale. And there is no record of that flipping having ever negatively affected life at that time.

On the other hand, there are several times in the geological records when we have had a spike of GHGs, and all are accompanied with extinction periods, minor to great.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The magnetic poles flip quite often on a geological time scale. And there is no record of that flipping having ever negatively affected life at that time.

On the other hand, there are several times in the geological records when we have had a spike of GHGs, and all are accompanied with extinction periods, minor to great.

And you're trying to prevent an extinction event in your own time. How humble.

Flipping the poles might be cause a worldwide EMP, the best part of which will be I won't have to read your dire "AGW!!" Warning anymore

 

[The T]

ManMade Global Warming is messing with the magnetic field too, amiright?

Has to be!

The field was stable before we choked the atmosphere with Sensitive CO2

And don't discount H20 Vapor! You know water and 'trons...

 

[westwall]

The magnetic poles flip quite often on a geological time scale. And there is no record of that flipping having ever negatively affected life at that time.

On the other hand, there are several times in the geological records when we have had a spike of GHGs, and all are accompanied with extinction periods, minor to great.

While I agree with you on the effects of a pole reversal, the AGW stuff has to go. there is little evidence to support even the most recent extinction event and there is zero evidence to support any of the others.

Quit making stuff up.

 

[Old Rocks]

Methane & Climate — OSS Foundation

Svensen H et al (2007) Hydrothermal venting of greenhouse gases triggering Early Jurassic global warming Earth Planetary Sci Lett 256 554-566

Abstract: “The climate change in the Toarcian (Early Jurassic) was characterized by a major perturbation of the global carbon cycle. The event lasted for approximately 200,000 years and was manifested by a global warming of similar to 6 degrees C, anoxic conditions in the oceans, and extinction of marine species. The triggering mechanisms for the perturbation and environmental change are however strongly debated. Here, we present evidence for a rapid formation and transport of greenhouse gases from the deep sedimentary reservoirs in the Karoo Basin, South Africa…….”

likewise comprehensive analyses shows a coincidence of major tectonic events, and resulting elevation of greenhouse gas levels, are associated with several of the major extinctions of the last 300 million years. Note that CO2 isn’t the only player. Methane is implicated in several of these events (see especially the PETM below) and sulphurous oxides and their effects on ocean acidity and oxygen content are also implicated:

Wignall P (2005) The link between large igneous province eruptions and mass extinctions Elements 1, 293-297

Abstract: “In the past 300 million years, there has been a near-perfect association between extinction events and the eruption of large igneous provinces, but proving the nature of the causal links is far from resolved. The associated environmental changes often include global warming and the development of widespread oxygen-poor conditions in the oceans. This implicates a role for volcanic CO2 emissions, but other perturbations of the global carbon cycle, such as release of methane from gas hydrate reservoirs or shut-down of photosynthesis in the oceans, are probably required to achieve severe green-house warming. The best links between extinction and eruption are seen in the interval from 300 to 150 Ma. With the exception of the Deccan Trap eruptions (65 Ma), the emplacement of younger volcanic provinces has been generally associated with significant environmental changes but little or no increase in extinction rates above background levels.”

 

[Old Rocks]

Methane Burps: Ticking Time Bomb | Energy Bulletin

Methane Burps: Ticking Time Bomb
by John Atcheson
The Arctic Council's recent report on the effects of global warming in the far north paints a grim picture: global floods, extinction of polar bears and other marine mammals, collapsed fisheries. But it ignored a ticking time bomb buried in the Arctic tundra.
There are enormous quantities of naturally occurring greenhouse gasses trapped in ice-like structures in the cold northern muds and at the bottom of the seas. These ices, called clathrates, contain 3,000 times as much methane as is in the atmosphere. Methane is more than 20 times as strong a greenhouse gas as carbon dioxide.
Now here's the scary part. A temperature increase of merely a few degrees would cause these gases to volatilize and "burp" into the atmosphere, which would further raise temperatures, which would release yet more methane, heating the Earth and seas further, and so on. There's 400 gigatons of methane locked in the frozen arctic tundra - enough to start this chain reaction - and the kind of warming the Arctic Council predicts is sufficient to melt the clathrates and release these greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

 

[sparky]

Ph.D. Anatoly Levitin, head of the geomagnetic variations laboratory at the Institute of Terrestrial Magnetism, Ionosphere and Radiowave Propagation of the Russian Academy of Sciences

now there's a title......

 

[Old Rocks]

Frozen Arctic methane shows signs outgassing - Physics Today News Picks

Physics Today: One of the greatest concerns and large unknowns in climate science has been the potential impact of methane trapped and frozen in the polar regions of the planet, particularly in the Arctic permafrost. If climate change causes the methane to be released, the gas could start a positive feedback reaction that could trigger abrupt climate warming.

Until now no evidence of such a mechcanism has been seen, but an international research team led by University of Alaska Fairbanks scientists Natalia Shakhova and Igor Semiletov. say this change is under way—in a little-studied area under the sea, the East Siberian Arctic Shelf, west of the Bering Strait.

The East Siberian Arctic Shelf, a methane-rich area that encompasses more than 2 million square kilometers of seafloor, was long thought to be an impermeable barrier sealing in the methane, but Shakhova and Semiletov team states that it is in fact perforated and starting to leak large amounts of methane into the atmosphere.

"The amount of methane currently coming out of the East Siberian Arctic Shelf is comparable to the amount coming out of the entire world's oceans," said Shakhova, a researcher at UAF's International Arctic Research Center. "Subsea permafrost is losing its ability to be an impermeable cap

 

[Old Rocks]

The magnetic poles flip quite often on a geological time scale. And there is no record of that flipping having ever negatively affected life at that time.

On the other hand, there are several times in the geological records when we have had a spike of GHGs, and all are accompanied with extinction periods, minor to great.

And you're trying to prevent an extinction event in your own time. How humble.

Flipping the poles might be cause a worldwide EMP, the best part of which will be I won't have to read your dire "AGW!!" Warning anymore

No, I am not. We are already well into a major extinction event from our other actions. And I believe that we are already well past the tipping point. What will be, will be. But there are those wise enough to take action for themselves if they realize what is coming down the pike.

 

[westwall]

Jeez old fraud,

You trot that same old crap out every time don't you. What is it on auto post?
However to the point; NONE of those little end of the world scenarios has any factual data to support them. Not one little bit. They are dreamed up by some little cultist writing a science fiction novella for some pulp magazine...damn there I go dating myself!

If there were going to be a "methane catastrophe" jesu maria christo they overuse that term, it would most certainly have occured during the MWP when it was three degrees warmer. It didn't. Nor did it occur during the RWP when it was even warmer.

Yet another failed hypothesis designed to scare the natives.

It's just silly now.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The magnetic poles flip quite often on a geological time scale. And there is no record of that flipping having ever negatively affected life at that time.

On the other hand, there are several times in the geological records when we have had a spike of GHGs, and all are accompanied with extinction periods, minor to great.

And you're trying to prevent an extinction event in your own time. How humble.

Flipping the poles might be cause a worldwide EMP, the best part of which will be I won't have to read your dire "AGW!!" Warning anymore

No, I am not. We are already well into a major extinction event from our other actions. And I believe that we are already well past the tipping point. What will be, will be. But there are those wise enough to take action for themselves if they realize what is coming down the pike.

"For example the early Jurassic extinction is associated with events (greenhouse gas induced warming) lasting 200,000 years"

From your article.

And you're telling me that we did in 100 years what took 200,000 years?

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

 

[syrenn]

The magnetic polls flip, just as the earth warms and cools. Humans are arrogant enough to believe it has anything to do with us.

The earth has a plan of its own, and it could care less about humanity.

and im good with that

 

[Old Rocks]

Jeez old fraud,

You trot that same old crap out every time don't you. What is it on auto post?
However to the point; NONE of those little end of the world scenarios has any factual data to support them. Not one little bit. They are dreamed up by some little cultist writing a science fiction novella for some pulp magazine...damn there I go dating myself!

If there were going to be a "methane catastrophe" jesu maria christo they overuse that term, it would most certainly have occured during the MWP when it was three degrees warmer. It didn't. Nor did it occur during the RWP when it was even warmer.

Yet another failed hypothesis designed to scare the natives.

It's just silly now.

Had you the slightest knowledge of geology, you would know that the cycle of GHGs rise by Trapp volcanics, then release of methane clathrates has happened several times in the past. And the physics of the process cares not at all that this time it is not volcanics introducing the GHGs into the atmosphere, but mankind. Once the cycle gets to a certain point, the results are inevitable.

The MWP was primarily a northern hemisphere event, not even a trace of it in the Antarctic Ice Cores. As for the RWP, not enough data to present it even as a hemispherical event. And neither was as warm as you fellows try to make out. We are warmer now than either event. And neither event had anything to do with GHGs.

 

[Old Rocks]

The magnetic polls flip, just as the earth warms and cools. Humans are arrogant enough to believe it has anything to do with us.

The earth has a plan of its own, and it could care less about humanity.

and im good with that

About two billion years ago, single celled creatures totally changed the content of the atmosphere of this planet. Life can indeed do major things to a planetary atmosphere. And we have already created a 40% increase in the CO2, a 150% increase in the CH4. And added industrial gasses that are thousands of times as effective GHG as CO2.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's far more likely that the extinctions were caused when a meteor the size of Rhode Island slammed into Earth and shook things up: super volcanoes, earthquakes, etc.

 

[westwall]

Jeez old fraud,

You trot that same old crap out every time don't you. What is it on auto post?
However to the point; NONE of those little end of the world scenarios has any factual data to support them. Not one little bit. They are dreamed up by some little cultist writing a science fiction novella for some pulp magazine...damn there I go dating myself!

If there were going to be a "methane catastrophe" jesu maria christo they overuse that term, it would most certainly have occured during the MWP when it was three degrees warmer. It didn't. Nor did it occur during the RWP when it was even warmer.

Yet another failed hypothesis designed to scare the natives.

It's just silly now.

Had you the slightest knowledge of geology, you would know that the cycle of GHGs rise by Trapp volcanics, then release of methane clathrates has happened several times in the past. And the physics of the process cares not at all that this time it is not volcanics introducing the GHGs into the atmosphere, but mankind. Once the cycle gets to a certain point, the results are inevitable.

The MWP was primarily a northern hemisphere event, not even a trace of it in the Antarctic Ice Cores. As for the RWP, not enough data to present it even as a hemispherical event. And neither was as warm as you fellows try to make out. We are warmer now than either event. And neither event had anything to do with GHGs.

You are wrong (as usual) on all counts. In order; yes the Trapps released huge amounts of methane and CO2. Erwin and Paull have tried to show that this was a leading cause of the P-T extinction. The problem is the length of time that the exinctions occured (1 million to 8 million years depending on who you believe) preclude the Trapps as being a sole source for extinction. Additionally the vast majority of evidence supports a COOLING of the planet not a warming.

The process of global warming is natural. It has happened in the past and it will happen in the future, as will cooling. It doesn't give a rats ass how much CO2 man is injecting into the atmosphere as it is a trivial amount compared to the natural CO2 emitted by the planet.


The MWP is proving itself to have been a GLOBAL event. Sea bottom cores taken in Polynesia have been found to show the MWP was in operation in the southern hemisphere as well.

Try reading a real science journal some time instead of wiki, you might learn something.