LMM Justice: Guilty until Proven Innocent...

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by insein, May 7, 2004.

  1. insein
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    insein Senior Member

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    http://www.newsday.com/news/local/w...,3719684,print.story?coll=ny-ap-regional-wire

    Which is why we have our justice system that includes due process. We do not have mob justice because mobs can be easily swayed to see a picture and assume guilt. More evidence of just how overblown this whole thing is.
     
  2. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    with all due respect, as a former marine I know that the commander of the unit is ultimately responsible for what happens in his/her unit. this gen karpinski can cry all she wants to but she is just as guilty as her soldiers who comitted these abuses.

    If she wants to mark herself as an incompetent commander then she can cry wolf over that as well, but it makes her look even more foolish.
     
  3. insein
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    insein Senior Member

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    I agree military justice and life is different from civilian justice. However don't you think that this non-stop coverage has labeled her guilty before the investigation has ended and any courtmartial begun.
     
  4. DKSuddeth
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    DKSuddeth Senior Member

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    I am unaware of any courtmartial proceedings against her at this time. She's been relieved of duty pending the outcome of the investigation, although at this point it surely seems her career is over.....as it should be. She's been shown to be an incompetent commander by not maintaining discipline and order within the command.
     
  5. insein
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    insein Senior Member

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    agreed.
     
  6. Doc Holiday
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    Doc Holiday BANNED

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    She has shown herself to be whiny as well as incompetent by giving interviews to everyone and their brother about how she's being scapegoated. She was quoted in one interview as saying it was all the intelligence people's fault and all the abuse happened in an area that was off limits to her troops. I thought that it was funny that her troops all managed to get into the pictures though.
     
  7. pegwinn
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    A Leader is responsible for everything done or not done within the command. This applies to Enlisted Leaders (NCO's and SNCO's), Officers, and Specifically Commanding Officers/Generals.

    But......... there is a fundamental rule about accountability. The closer to the action you are, the more accountable. Meaning the First Sergeant and Company Commander share the same responsibility as the Sergeant Major and Commanding General, but they are infinitely more accountable. Just as the Soldiers who actually committed the deeds are even more accountable.

    Actual Soldiers who physically committed a crime should get a General Court Martial.

    Leaders who knew of the offences and did nothing should get a Special Court Martial for dereliction of duty.

    Leaders who didn't know, but should've, should be relieved "for cause" and reprimanded.

    As to the General being "whiney", She is only following in her former Commander in Chiefs shoes. She also has the example of former Sergeant Major of the Army McKinney in that the media seriously hampered any viable defense by reporting his case as is his conviction were a foregone conclusion.

    A key tenet of Military Leadership (as opposed to civilians and especially politicians of any party) is "special trust and confidence in the fidelities and abilities of.......". Assuming that the dog and pony shows occurred on every visit (after all she is a General Officer), and the reports came and went on time, she had every reason to believe that all was well.

    She may've been lax, naive, and overly trusting. That equals stupidity/incompetent and is not chargeable under the UCMJ as a criminal offence. Item last, does anyone know how many levels of command between her and the individual? Wasn't she a brigade commander. Since I am not Army, isn't here at a minimum four levels from the individual to her. I'd be thinking a Platoon, then a Company, then a Battalion, then a Regiment at least. Wonder what's happening to the leaders at those levels.

    My own 2 cents.
     

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