Living History--what's Your Story?

[konradv]

You've made me consider an OP about the fallacy of FDR's economic policies.....

...a big thank you.

It will be instructive, but not to the FDR-groupies.

Anyone else surprised that honor, like truth, is an alien concept to this poster?

 

[gipper]

My father grew up during the Great Depression in rural Tennessee. He too often had little to eat. Many days he had only an apple or stale bread dipped in sugar water as his only meal.
He never experienced three meals a day until at age 18, having just graduated high school, was drafted into the army to fight FDR's war, were he got three meals a day for the first time. He recalled how many of his follow GI's complained about how bad Army food was. My father never complained and thought those who did, where crazy.

You who admire FDR have failed to realize that his crazy economic policies, which forced American farmers to destroy livestock and crops in a kooky effort to raise prices, during the Great Depression, was the cause of much of your's and my father's lack of food.

So much for honoring the OP's request to not make this a political pissing contest. I guess honor like personal responsibility is a concept meant to flog opponents, not principles to live by.

What's the big deal?

You Lefties make EVERYTHING political.

And I was responding to a delusional FDR cultist poster who was spouting foolishness, with FACTS.

 

[konradv]

One interesting family story and two (semi)interesting vignettes from my life.

My parents grew up in Nazi-occupied Belgium. Feeding a family of nine was tough at any time, but especially wartime. Each man received a tobacco ration which my mother's father and two older brothers saved and used to make black market deals with farmers. Her oldest brother would go out on a bike to make the deal and often would return many hours later with either a story of having to repatch the only pair of tires he had for the whole war or that he had to hide in the woods because of German patrols looking for black marketeers. Luckily for the family, he went the whole war without getting caught.

Worked the summer of '69 as a counselor at a Boy Scout camp in northern NJ. We'd set up the camp in a week and take it down over a weekend. Naturally we were grumbling when three guys left on takedown weekend to attend a concert, leaving the rest of us to pick up the slack. Less than a week later we were jealous when we realized we were less than 80 miles away from one of the defining events of the 60s.

In 1979 I was working in a pathology lab. When things weren't too busy I'd sit down with the pathologist and do the daily slide reading. Many diseases require medical knowledge to diagnose, because you have to use both what is seen on the slide and clinical information to make the diagnosis. Tumors are an exception, however, as many can be diagnosed by their pattern and I got pretty good at diagnosing them. One day we sit down and a slide comes up and I immediately say "Kaposi's sarcoma". The pathologist says he's not so sure because Kaposi's is an "old man's disease", but the patient is in his late 20s. Despite my comment that it made it all the more interesting, he gave the a descriptive diagnosis, i.e. he described Kaposi's sarcoma without calling it that. Well, we got similar samples from other patients and the residents that brought them in kept talking about the guys getting strange infections that were essentially unheard of because the immune system took care of them before they started. I even remember one of them saying , "He's a really great guy. Queer as a three dollar bill, but a really great guy". Three or four years later the shit hit the fan and I realized I had touched a lot of those specimens with my hands!!! Note: At the time gloves were mainly worn to protect the patient and not nearly as much was thought about those coming into contact with the samples. Well, needless to say, I was one of the first on line when a test was developed to identify HIV and its antibodies.

 

[konradv]

My father grew up during the Great Depression in rural Tennessee. He too often had little to eat. Many days he had only an apple or stale bread dipped in sugar water as his only meal.
He never experienced three meals a day until at age 18, having just graduated high school, was drafted into the army to fight FDR's war, were he got three meals a day for the first time. He recalled how many of his follow GI's complained about how bad Army food was. My father never complained and thought those who did, where crazy.

You who admire FDR have failed to realize that his crazy economic policies, which forced American farmers to destroy livestock and crops in a kooky effort to raise prices, during the Great Depression, was the cause of much of your's and my father's lack of food.

So much for honoring the OP's request to not make this a political pissing contest. I guess honor like personal responsibility is a concept meant to flog opponents, not principles to live by.

What's the big deal?

You Lefties make EVERYTHING political.

And I was responding to a delusional FDR cultist poster who was spouting foolishness, with FACTS.

He was talking about personal aspects of his life. You're the one that broke the spirit of the thread. Of course, you'd rather lie. Thanks for capitalizing the operative words so we wouldn't miss it.

 

[MaryL]

My mom was and Nurse at Fitzsimons medical center in the early forties. My dad was in the Army in/ during the battle of Attu and was wounded hence sent back to the states and met my mother. He (then) was recently divorced, and fell in love and married future my mother.

 

[gipper]

One interesting family story and two (semi)interesting vignettes from my life.

My parents grew up in Nazi-occupied Belgium. Feeding a family of nine was tough at any time, but especially wartime. Each man received a tobacco ration which my mother's father and two older brothers saved and used to make black market deals with farmers. Her oldest brother would go out on a bike to make the deal and often would return many hours later with either a story of having to repatch the only pair of tires he had for the whole war or that he had to hide in the woods because of German patrols looking for black marketeers. Luckily for the family, he went the whole war without getting caught.

Worked the summer of '69 as a counselor at a Boy Scout camp in northern NJ. We'd set up the camp in a week and take it down over a weekend. Naturally we were grumbling when three guys left on takedown weekend to attend a concert, leaving the rest of us to pick up the slack. Less than a week later we were jealous when we realized we were less than 80 miles away from one of the defining events of the 60s.

In 1979 I was working in a pathology lab. When things weren't too busy I'd sit down with the pathologist and do the daily slide reading. Many diseases require medical knowledge to diagnose, because you have to use both what is seen on the slide and clinical information to make the diagnosis. Tumors are an exception, however, as many can be diagnosed by their pattern and I got pretty good at diagnosing them. One day we sit down and a slide comes up and I immediately say "Kaposi's sarcoma". The pathologist says he's not so sure because Kaposi's is an "old man's disease", but the patient is in his late 20s. Despite my comment that it made it all the more interesting, he gave the a descriptive diagnosis, i.e. he described Kaposi's sarcoma without calling it that. Well, we got similar samples from other patients and the residents that brought them in kept talking about the guys getting strange infections that were essentially unheard of because the immune system took care of them before they started. I even remember one of them saying , "He's a really great guy. Queer as a three dollar bill, but a really great guy". Three or four years later the shit hit the fan and I realized I had touched a lot of those specimens with my hands!!! Note: At the time gloves were mainly worn to protect the patient and not nearly as much was thought about those coming into contact with the samples. Well, needless to say, I was one of the first on line when a test was developed to identify HIV and its antibodies.

Interesting.

I hope you do not have HIV.

 

[gipper]

My father grew up during the Great Depression in rural Tennessee. He too often had little to eat. Many days he had only an apple or stale bread dipped in sugar water as his only meal.
He never experienced three meals a day until at age 18, having just graduated high school, was drafted into the army to fight FDR's war, were he got three meals a day for the first time. He recalled how many of his follow GI's complained about how bad Army food was. My father never complained and thought those who did, where crazy.

You who admire FDR have failed to realize that his crazy economic policies, which forced American farmers to destroy livestock and crops in a kooky effort to raise prices, during the Great Depression, was the cause of much of your's and my father's lack of food.

So much for honoring the OP's request to not make this a political pissing contest. I guess honor like personal responsibility is a concept meant to flog opponents, not principles to live by.

What's the big deal?

You Lefties make EVERYTHING political.

And I was responding to a delusional FDR cultist poster who was spouting foolishness, with FACTS.

He was talking about personal aspects of his life. You're the one that broke the spirit of the thread. Of course, you'd rather lie. Thanks for capitalizing the operative words so we wouldn't miss it.

I have not lied. I never said I did not make a political statement.

 

[konradv]

Interesting.

I hope you do not have HIV.

Thanks, I don't, but there were a couple of worried weeks.

 

[gipper]

My mom was and Nurse at Fitzsimons medical center in the early forties. My dad was in the Army in/ during the battle of Attu and was wounded hence sent back to the states and met my mother. He (then) was recently divorced, and fell in love and married future my mother.

Wow....not to diminish your parent's love affair, but do you have any details about your father's experience on Attu Island?

It was the only battle fought on US soil. It was nasty with much hand to hand combat and the weather conditions were most unpleasant. How was he wounded?

 

[konradv]

Wow....not to diminish your parent's love affair, but do you have any details about your father's experience on Attu Island?

It was the only battle fought on US soil. It was nasty with much hand to hand combat and the weather conditions were most unpleasant. How was he wounded?

I guess it was a national honor thing, but I never understood why we expended men and material taking it back. I'd have blockaded it and starved them out. It's not like it was near anything of much importance. Once the Japanese were there and cut off, what could they do?

 

[gipper]

Wow....not to diminish your parent's love affair, but do you have any details about your father's experience on Attu Island?

It was the only battle fought on US soil. It was nasty with much hand to hand combat and the weather conditions were most unpleasant. How was he wounded?

I guess it was a national honor thing, but I never understood why we expended men and material taking it back. I'd have blockaded it and starved them out. It's not like it was near anything of much importance. Once the Japanese were there and cut off, what could they do?

Well....regarding the war, we never should have enter WWII. Had FDR not sanctioned the Japanese, and not lied and deceived America into war, it would never have happened.

Regarding the island hopping campaigns in the Pacific, our men fought with unbelievable bravery. Sadly, many died for nothing but promotions for admirals and generals. Most of those island assaults were entirely unnecessary and a terrible waste.

 

[Boss]

Well....regarding the war, we never should have enter WWII. Had FDR not sanctioned the Japanese, and not lied and deceived America into war, it would never have happened.

Regarding the island hopping campaigns in the Pacific, our men fought with unbelievable bravery. Sadly, many died for nothing but promotions for admirals and generals. Most of those island assaults were entirely unnecessary and a terrible waste.

I don't want to turn the thread into a debate, but I disagree with this. Had the US not entered WWII, the UK and eventually Russia, would have fallen to the Germans. The Middle East would have been controlled by the Germans as well. Most of the South Pacific was strategic. It never came into play because of the atomic bomb, but would have been very important in a protracted war with Japan. It is very easy to play armchair general in retrospect when it comes to wars.

I can find much more egregious fault with FDR than WWII.

 

[gipper]

Well....regarding the war, we never should have enter WWII. Had FDR not sanctioned the Japanese, and not lied and deceived America into war, it would never have happened.

Regarding the island hopping campaigns in the Pacific, our men fought with unbelievable bravery. Sadly, many died for nothing but promotions for admirals and generals. Most of those island assaults were entirely unnecessary and a terrible waste.

I don't want to turn the thread into a debate, but I disagree with this. Had the US not entered WWII, the UK and eventually Russia, would have fallen to the Germans. The Middle East would have been controlled by the Germans as well. Most of the South Pacific was strategic. It never came into play because of the atomic bomb, but would have been very important in a protracted war with Japan. It is very easy to play armchair general in retrospect when it comes to wars.

I can find much more egregious fault with FDR than WWII.

Yes there is much to fault the disgraceful liar and terrible fool FDR....but the Germans never would have defeated the Soviets. By the time the USA entered the war, the tide was already turning at Stalingrad. Also Hitler had no intention or the ability to invade the UK.

WWII just as WWI, was not America's fight, but both leaders at the time, lied us into war.

President Obala is trying to lie us into more war today. When will Americans ever learn?

 

[Boss]

Well....regarding the war, we never should have enter WWII. Had FDR not sanctioned the Japanese, and not lied and deceived America into war, it would never have happened.

Regarding the island hopping campaigns in the Pacific, our men fought with unbelievable bravery. Sadly, many died for nothing but promotions for admirals and generals. Most of those island assaults were entirely unnecessary and a terrible waste.

I don't want to turn the thread into a debate, but I disagree with this. Had the US not entered WWII, the UK and eventually Russia, would have fallen to the Germans. The Middle East would have been controlled by the Germans as well. Most of the South Pacific was strategic. It never came into play because of the atomic bomb, but would have been very important in a protracted war with Japan. It is very easy to play armchair general in retrospect when it comes to wars.

I can find much more egregious fault with FDR than WWII.

Yes there is much to fault the disgraceful liar and terrible fool FDR....but the Germans never would have defeated the Soviets. By the time the USA entered the war, the tide was already turning at Stalingrad. Also Hitler had no intention or the ability to invade the UK.

WWII just as WWI, was not America's fight, but both leaders at the time, lied us into war.

President Obala is trying to lie us into more war today. When will Americans ever learn?

Again, you are making some huge assumptions here. Stalingrad was a major turning point on the Eastern front, but would it have been if the Allies had not been reinvigorated by US support on the Western front? We don't have any way of knowing this. As for Hitler invading the UK, I think you and Chamberlain are the only two who believe Germany had no intention of invasion. Certainly they were not going to take over all of Europe, including the lands of their own allies, Italy and Russia, but leave the UK be. Hitler was on a quest for global domination, that wasn't likely to end at the English Channel.

America becomes involved in wars because we have American interests abroad. It's easy to sit in the comfort of your den and proclaim that all wars are needless and pointless or mistakes on our part. We have agreements and obligations with allies and if we embark on a policy of simply disregarding our own word, then all bets are off. I don't believe ANY president has ever "lied us into war" because war is serious business, lives are at stake, people die. Any person who would cavalierly take us to war on a lie for the sake of politics or any other superficial reason, is worse than Hitler or any other tyrant ever known to man.

Again, I apologize for creating a "debate " in the middle of a lighthearted discussion. Let's just agree to disagree here and let the thread remain on track. Please?

 

[gipper]

Well....regarding the war, we never should have enter WWII. Had FDR not sanctioned the Japanese, and not lied and deceived America into war, it would never have happened.

Regarding the island hopping campaigns in the Pacific, our men fought with unbelievable bravery. Sadly, many died for nothing but promotions for admirals and generals. Most of those island assaults were entirely unnecessary and a terrible waste.

I don't want to turn the thread into a debate, but I disagree with this. Had the US not entered WWII, the UK and eventually Russia, would have fallen to the Germans. The Middle East would have been controlled by the Germans as well. Most of the South Pacific was strategic. It never came into play because of the atomic bomb, but would have been very important in a protracted war with Japan. It is very easy to play armchair general in retrospect when it comes to wars.

I can find much more egregious fault with FDR than WWII.

Yes there is much to fault the disgraceful liar and terrible fool FDR....but the Germans never would have defeated the Soviets. By the time the USA entered the war, the tide was already turning at Stalingrad. Also Hitler had no intention or the ability to invade the UK.

WWII just as WWI, was not America's fight, but both leaders at the time, lied us into war.

President Obala is trying to lie us into more war today. When will Americans ever learn?

Again, you are making some huge assumptions here. Stalingrad was a major turning point on the Eastern front, but would it have been if the Allies had not been reinvigorated by US support on the Western front? We don't have any way of knowing this. As for Hitler invading the UK, I think you and Chamberlain are the only two who believe Germany had no intention of invasion. Certainly they were not going to take over all of Europe, including the lands of their own allies, Italy and Russia, but leave the UK be. Hitler was on a quest for global domination, that wasn't likely to end at the English Channel.

America becomes involved in wars because we have American interests abroad. It's easy to sit in the comfort of your den and proclaim that all wars are needless and pointless or mistakes on our part. We have agreements and obligations with allies and if we embark on a policy of simply disregarding our own word, then all bets are off. I don't believe ANY president has ever "lied us into war" because war is serious business, lives are at stake, people die. Any person who would cavalierly take us to war on a lie for the sake of politics or any other superficial reason, is worse than Hitler or any other tyrant ever known to man.

Again, I apologize for creating a "debate " in the middle of a lighthearted discussion. Let's just agree to disagree here and let the thread remain on track. Please?

The USA entering the war had no impact on the eastern front, since the Soviets were already turning the tide before the USA could make an impact.

It is clear Hitler had no intention of invading the UK. He had no landing craft and did not control the English Channel. He also was focusing all his resources on attacking the USSR.

Nearly all our wars were the result of lies by the POTUS. Sorry you can't see that.

War is the health of the state...

 

[PoliticalChic]

Well....regarding the war, we never should have enter WWII. Had FDR not sanctioned the Japanese, and not lied and deceived America into war, it would never have happened.

Regarding the island hopping campaigns in the Pacific, our men fought with unbelievable bravery. Sadly, many died for nothing but promotions for admirals and generals. Most of those island assaults were entirely unnecessary and a terrible waste.

I don't want to turn the thread into a debate, but I disagree with this. Had the US not entered WWII, the UK and eventually Russia, would have fallen to the Germans. The Middle East would have been controlled by the Germans as well. Most of the South Pacific was strategic. It never came into play because of the atomic bomb, but would have been very important in a protracted war with Japan. It is very easy to play armchair general in retrospect when it comes to wars.

I can find much more egregious fault with FDR than WWII.

Yes there is much to fault the disgraceful liar and terrible fool FDR....but the Germans never would have defeated the Soviets. By the time the USA entered the war, the tide was already turning at Stalingrad. Also Hitler had no intention or the ability to invade the UK.

WWII just as WWI, was not America's fight, but both leaders at the time, lied us into war.

President Obala is trying to lie us into more war today. When will Americans ever learn?

Again, you are making some huge assumptions here. Stalingrad was a major turning point on the Eastern front, but would it have been if the Allies had not been reinvigorated by US support on the Western front? We don't have any way of knowing this. As for Hitler invading the UK, I think you and Chamberlain are the only two who believe Germany had no intention of invasion. Certainly they were not going to take over all of Europe, including the lands of their own allies, Italy and Russia, but leave the UK be. Hitler was on a quest for global domination, that wasn't likely to end at the English Channel.

America becomes involved in wars because we have American interests abroad. It's easy to sit in the comfort of your den and proclaim that all wars are needless and pointless or mistakes on our part. We have agreements and obligations with allies and if we embark on a policy of simply disregarding our own word, then all bets are off. I don't believe ANY president has ever "lied us into war" because war is serious business, lives are at stake, people die. Any person who would cavalierly take us to war on a lie for the sake of politics or any other superficial reason, is worse than Hitler or any other tyrant ever known to man.

Again, I apologize for creating a "debate " in the middle of a lighthearted discussion. Let's just agree to disagree here and let the thread remain on track. Please?

" Stalingrad was a major turning point on the Eastern front, but would it have been if the Allies had not been reinvigorated by US support on the Western front? We don't have any way of knowing this."

Actually....we do.

1. Have you heard of the Soviet's three greatest generals?
December, January, and February.

2. Are you familiar with Napoleon's adventure, and the results of same?

3. How about the summer battle, Kursk?

 

[Politico]

Sigh will people who don't know history please quit talking.

 

[gipper]

My grandfather on my Mom's side, entered Ellis Island from Sicily in 1906. He was 18 years old, with an 8th grade education and $12 in his pocket. He later married and raised 4 children. Attained a nice middle class life style. He owned several businesses including a gas station, beer garden (as I kid I always wondered what a beer garden was and how it could grow anything during Detroit's long winters), and a milk depot...also worked 20 years for Ford Motor Co.

During the Great Depression, he and his family lived better than most. He regularly gave food to many of his neighbors. Many of whom, were destitute.

My mother and her sister left the house one Saturday walking to the movie house. They were 15 and 13 years old. My grandmother gave each of them a dime. On the way, my aunt lost her dime and they had to return home, to face the wrath of my grandmother. She was most unhappy, but gave my aunt another dime. So off they went to see the news reel, several cartoons, the Three Stooges, and two movies.

A dime bought a lot in those days....my how the elites have destroyed our currency.

 

[Old Rocks]

My grandfather on my Mom's side, entered Ellis Island from Sicily in 1906. He was 18 years old, with an 8th grade education and $12 in his pocket. He later married and raised 4 children. Attained a nice middle class life style. He owned several businesses including a gas station, beer garden (as I kid I always wondered what a beer garden was and how it could grow anything during Detroit's long winters), and a milk depot...also worked 20 years for Ford Motor Co.

During the Great Depression, he and his family lived better than most. He regularly gave food to many of his neighbors. Many of whom, were destitute.

My mother and her sister left the house one Saturday walking to the movie house. They were 15 and 13 years old. My grandmother gave each of them a dime. On the way, my aunt lost her dime and they had to return home, to face the wrath of my grandmother. She was most unhappy, but gave my aunt another dime. So off they went to see the news reel, several cartoons, the Three Stooges, and two movies.

A dime bought a lot in those days....my how the elites have destroyed our currency.

OK, make everything political. Detracts greatly from your personal tales, and your credibility.

 

[Old Rocks]

I was born in 1943. My father was a mechanic on B-25's. He was from Ellington, Missouri. My mother was from Prairie City, Oregon. My paternal grandfather was a blacksmith and farmer, my maternal grandfather, a rancher in Eastern Oregon. After the war, Dad followed logging. I went to 13 differant schools between the 1st grade, and graduating high school. We lived in ranching towns, logging camps, and mill towns. I was skinny, undersized, red headed, and loved to read. A natural target. However, my father had been a welter weight contender at one point in his life, and taught his oldest boy how to fight from the time I was 2 1/2 years old. I never did learn to like fighting, but gave a good account of myself.

When I was 10, we were living near Sequim on the Olympic Peninsula, and I picked up two rocks that were helping hold a corner post in place. One was basalt, the other granite. I ask my mother what they were and why they were so differant, even though I found them in the same place. Mom knew they were basalt and granite, but could not answer the rest of my questions. And so began my love affair with geology.

Going to so many differant schools, I had an overview of the American Public School System that ranged for abysmal to sublime. The best teacher I ever had, in a one room school house on the upper reaches of the John Day River, Mrs. Puet, noted that I was a rock packer even at 12 years old. So she assigned me, a sixth grader, to make a book report on a first year college geology text book. I was hooked from then on.

Created some dissension within some members of my family, as both sides were fundementalist Christians. Learned early on to keep my mouth shut, and opinions to myself. Left me with a distaste for fundemental religion.

When I finished high school, I had no idea what to do next. So I joined the Air Force. Interesting story there, which I will tell someday.

Having seen so many aspects of very rural life, from the ranching areas to the logging camps, I really felt I have seen farther back into the history of this nation than most. I knew real cowboys, have met Indians that lived the old ways, and the real bull of the woods loggers. A very differant time, with differant expections of what men and women should be. Would not want to go back, but treasure my memories.