Liberal Colleges and Universities - Why and How Did They Get That Way?

[Modbert]

I go to a college that I suppose would be considered Liberal. In my personal experiences, only one professor talked about anything related to current events and it was to inform students about the goings on in Asia. Makes sense since it was a Non-Western World class focused on Japan and China.

Though another professor had us go to the local Jewish Community Center to listen to someone speak who lived in Nazi Germany before World War II and how she barely escaped with her family.

Though this semester, taking Global Competition: The United States and Its Trading Partners. It should be a interesting class.

We have both a Democrat group and Republican group on campus. I'm involved with neither though. Oh, and of course the Socialists. Funny enough, last semester they were walking around the campus with a huge picture of Obama with a Hitler mustache. Turns out they dislike Obama as much as the right on here who think he's a socialist. Though I know some people on USMB do not want to hear that.

 

[ConHog]

I go to a college that I suppose would be considered Liberal. In my personal experiences, only one professor talked about anything related to current events and it was to inform students about the goings on in Asia. Makes sense since it was a Non-Western World class focused on Japan and China.

Though another professor had us go to the local Jewish Community Center to listen to someone speak who lived in Nazi Germany before World War II and how she barely escaped with her family.

Though this semester, taking Global Competition: The United States and Its Trading Partners. It should be a interesting class.

We have both a Democrat group and Republican group on campus. I'm involved with neither though. Oh, and of course the Socialists. Funny enough, last semester they were walking around the campus with a huge picture of Obama with a Hitler mustache. Turns out they dislike Obama as much as the right on here who think he's a socialist. Though I know some people on USMB do not want to hear that.

 

[DiveCon]

It's simple really. Credible colleges all teach science. Many conservatives belief systems don't allow for real scientific facts and accepted theories. That excludes most of the religious fundamentalists by their own choice. Also to expand on the religious theme... History and archeology defies much of the religious dogma and flies in the face of those that choose the bible and other religious doctrine as their historical guide.

Oh boy, another idiot who thinks liberals are automatically smarter than conservatives because they can conveniently ignore the fact that liberals are just as likely to call themselves Christians, or by another religious tag, as conservatives. Then they jump to the ridiculous conclusion that because conservatives are Christian that they believe the Earth is 5000 years old. and are thus totally ignorant about science.

Believe it or not, more conservatives have a solid grounding in science than liberals. Most liberals tend to specialize in social sciences or art, which means that their understanding of science stops somewhere in grade school. Conservatives tend to go into engineering, mathematics, and business, which means they have to deal with the real world. That means that even if they are brought up to believe that magic is what makes cars work, they are forced to learn that physics makes the world go round.

Would you like me to list all the Christian colleges in the US that have a better reputation for teaching science than any liberal arts college you can find? Or would the simple name of Harvard blow your little world apart?

Maybe you should stop using rdean as your source of arguments about science and politics.

The name Harvard came from a Christian Minister in 1636. That was nearly four hundred years ago. Read the Harvard Mission Statement and there is nary a mention of "Gawd'.

Mission statement - Harvard University

And I'm just, pardon the word, "mystified", why the right would think they have lots of scientists and "stuff"?

The Republican truth is they have lots of scientists and "big" thinkers.

The truth "truth" is the right has only contempt for education which is exemplified by one of their leaders, Sarah Palin. The sad thing isn't that Mother Sarah rolled her eyes when the women said she was a "teacher", but the FACT that the right wing has made "teacher" a dirty word and the woman was "ashamed" of being a teacher. She said, "I have a few other jobs". Sad and pathetic.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85wOCIDgu1U&feature=related"]YouTube - Sarah Palin - The eyeroll that did not happen - Homer, Alaska, August 7, 2010[/ame]

you just have to keep proving what a fucking IDIOT you are over and over in spite of any facts presented to you, dont ya?


btw, the people doing that video are fucking idiots like you
she didnt roll her eyes at all

 

[gautama]

Excellent answer. Thank you.

how fucking ignorant of you'

thats fucking pathetic, george

George is getting worse and worse. I think his case is terminal.

Yep.

PanzaCostanza, the Hollywierdo peripheral bitsy part player representing ugly, bald pudgy/fat morons is on the verge of becoming TruthDoesn'tMatter, RDeanieWeanie, Buggyhuggy etc., i.e. terminal Obamarrhoidal Liebtards.

 

[rdean]

Oh boy, another idiot who thinks liberals are automatically smarter than conservatives because they can conveniently ignore the fact that liberals are just as likely to call themselves Christians, or by another religious tag, as conservatives. Then they jump to the ridiculous conclusion that because conservatives are Christian that they believe the Earth is 5000 years old. and are thus totally ignorant about science.

Believe it or not, more conservatives have a solid grounding in science than liberals. Most liberals tend to specialize in social sciences or art, which means that their understanding of science stops somewhere in grade school. Conservatives tend to go into engineering, mathematics, and business, which means they have to deal with the real world. That means that even if they are brought up to believe that magic is what makes cars work, they are forced to learn that physics makes the world go round.

Would you like me to list all the Christian colleges in the US that have a better reputation for teaching science than any liberal arts college you can find? Or would the simple name of Harvard blow your little world apart?

Maybe you should stop using rdean as your source of arguments about science and politics.

YES
please do list them

Dartmouth
Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Harvard

All of the huge privately funded universities in the east are actually founded as Christian schools, something that blows every liberal away when I point it out.

So I go through these colleges. None of them are in "Alabama" or "South Carolina".
All of them were founded in the late 1600's.
In fact, the only one that even talks about "Gawd" on their site is Yale, which identifies itself as providing a "liberal" education.

(the following is especially funny coming from Yale history)

About Yale | History

Yale’s roots can be traced back to the 1640s, when colonial clergymen led an effort to establish a college in New Haven to preserve the tradition of European liberal education in the New World.

(is that a hoot or what?)

Now come on people. To pretend that conservatives are all into "education" is ludicrous. Not even you guys can possibly believe that. The only education conservatives want is business so they can scam people out of their money.

Definitions of conservative:

•resistant to change
•having social or political views favoring conservatism
•a person who is reluctant to accept changes and new ideas
•button-down: unimaginatively conventional; "a colorful character in the buttoned-down, dull-grey world of business"- Newsweek
•a member of a Conservative Party

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

 

[DiveCon]

YES
please do list them

Dartmouth
Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Harvard

All of the huge privately funded universities in the east are actually founded as Christian schools, something that blows every liberal away when I point it out.

So I go through these colleges. None of them are in "Alabama" or "South Carolina".
All of them were founded in the late 1600's.
In fact, the only one that even talks about "Gawd" on their site is Yale, which identifies itself as providing a "liberal" education.

(the following is especially funny coming from Yale history)

About Yale | History

Yale’s roots can be traced back to the 1640s, when colonial clergymen led an effort to establish a college in New Haven to preserve the tradition of European liberal education in the New World.

(is that a hoot or what?)

Now come on people. To pretend that conservatives are all into "education" is ludicrous. Not even you guys can possibly believe that. The only education conservatives want is business so they can scam people out of their money.

Definitions of conservative:

•resistant to change
•having social or political views favoring conservatism
•a person who is reluctant to accept changes and new ideas
•button-down: unimaginatively conventional; "a colorful character in the buttoned-down, dull-grey world of business"- Newsweek
•a member of a Conservative Party

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

fucking IDIOT

 

[rdean]

Dartmouth
Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Harvard

All of the huge privately funded universities in the east are actually founded as Christian schools, something that blows every liberal away when I point it out.

So I go through these colleges. None of them are in "Alabama" or "South Carolina".
All of them were founded in the late 1600's.
In fact, the only one that even talks about "Gawd" on their site is Yale, which identifies itself as providing a "liberal" education.

(the following is especially funny coming from Yale history)

About Yale | History

Yale’s roots can be traced back to the 1640s, when colonial clergymen led an effort to establish a college in New Haven to preserve the tradition of European liberal education in the New World.

(is that a hoot or what?)

Now come on people. To pretend that conservatives are all into "education" is ludicrous. Not even you guys can possibly believe that. The only education conservatives want is business so they can scam people out of their money.

Definitions of conservative:

•resistant to change
•having social or political views favoring conservatism
•a person who is reluctant to accept changes and new ideas
•button-down: unimaginatively conventional; "a colorful character in the buttoned-down, dull-grey world of business"- Newsweek
•a member of a Conservative Party

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

fucking IDIOT

Oh my poor little "turd blossom". Clergy back then are not the conservatives of today. That was hundreds of years ago. No, you have to go to "Bob Jones" University to find those of your ilk. Besides, you don't really believe the earth is billions of years old, do you?

 

[syrenn]

The hippies grew up, had no money and realized they were losers. They got teaching jobs and are now geriatric hippies who teach.

I know smart mouth answer but that is how i see it. Look at the ages of professor's and you will see their genera. They are for the most part the 60's 70's teens and young adults. Being liberal or conservative does not effect the ability to teach. It does at times slant the style of that teaching.

 

[ConHog]

YES
please do list them

Dartmouth
Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Harvard

All of the huge privately funded universities in the east are actually founded as Christian schools, something that blows every liberal away when I point it out.

So I go through these colleges. None of them are in "Alabama" or "South Carolina".
All of them were founded in the late 1600's.
In fact, the only one that even talks about "Gawd" on their site is Yale, which identifies itself as providing a "liberal" education.

(the following is especially funny coming from Yale history)

About Yale | History

Yale’s roots can be traced back to the 1640s, when colonial clergymen led an effort to establish a college in New Haven to preserve the tradition of European liberal education in the New World.

(is that a hoot or what?)

Now come on people. To pretend that conservatives are all into "education" is ludicrous. Not even you guys can possibly believe that. The only education conservatives want is business so they can scam people out of their money.

Definitions of conservative:

•resistant to change
•having social or political views favoring conservatism
•a person who is reluctant to accept changes and new ideas
•button-down: unimaginatively conventional; "a colorful character in the buttoned-down, dull-grey world of business"- Newsweek
•a member of a Conservative Party

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

You sir, are not very intelligent.

I went to the College of the Ozarks. Hardwork U

College of the Ozarks, Hard Work U.

They bill themselves as a liberal arts college, and yet they are absolutely a conservative Christian college

Liberal in education terms has NOTHING to do with liberal as a political term.

Liberal arts college - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It must be sad to be so desperate for your "side" to be right about something.

 

[DiveCon]

So I go through these colleges. None of them are in "Alabama" or "South Carolina".
All of them were founded in the late 1600's.
In fact, the only one that even talks about "Gawd" on their site is Yale, which identifies itself as providing a "liberal" education.

(the following is especially funny coming from Yale history)

About Yale | History

Yale’s roots can be traced back to the 1640s, when colonial clergymen led an effort to establish a college in New Haven to preserve the tradition of European liberal education in the New World.

(is that a hoot or what?)

Now come on people. To pretend that conservatives are all into "education" is ludicrous. Not even you guys can possibly believe that. The only education conservatives want is business so they can scam people out of their money.

Definitions of conservative:

•resistant to change
•having social or political views favoring conservatism
•a person who is reluctant to accept changes and new ideas
•button-down: unimaginatively conventional; "a colorful character in the buttoned-down, dull-grey world of business"- Newsweek
•a member of a Conservative Party

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

fucking IDIOT

Oh my poor little "turd blossom". Clergy back then are not the conservatives of today. That was hundreds of years ago. No, you have to go to "Bob Jones" University to find those of your ilk. Besides, you don't really believe the earth is billions of years old, do you?

and "liberal" back then wasnt "liberal" today
you fucking moron

 

[DiveCon]

Dartmouth
Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Harvard

All of the huge privately funded universities in the east are actually founded as Christian schools, something that blows every liberal away when I point it out.

So I go through these colleges. None of them are in "Alabama" or "South Carolina".
All of them were founded in the late 1600's.
In fact, the only one that even talks about "Gawd" on their site is Yale, which identifies itself as providing a "liberal" education.

(the following is especially funny coming from Yale history)

About Yale | History

Yale’s roots can be traced back to the 1640s, when colonial clergymen led an effort to establish a college in New Haven to preserve the tradition of European liberal education in the New World.

(is that a hoot or what?)

Now come on people. To pretend that conservatives are all into "education" is ludicrous. Not even you guys can possibly believe that. The only education conservatives want is business so they can scam people out of their money.

Definitions of conservative:

•resistant to change
•having social or political views favoring conservatism
•a person who is reluctant to accept changes and new ideas
•button-down: unimaginatively conventional; "a colorful character in the buttoned-down, dull-grey world of business"- Newsweek
•a member of a Conservative Party

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

You sir, are not very intelligent.

I went to the College of the Ozarks. Hardwork U

College of the Ozarks, Hard Work U.

They bill themselves as a liberal arts college, and yet they are absolutely a conservative Christian college

Liberal in education terms has NOTHING to do with liberal as a political term.

Liberal arts college - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It must be sad to be so desperate for your "side" to be right about something.

he's too fucking stupid to understand that

 

[rdean]

Dartmouth
Harvard
Princeton
Yale
Harvard

All of the huge privately funded universities in the east are actually founded as Christian schools, something that blows every liberal away when I point it out.

So I go through these colleges. None of them are in "Alabama" or "South Carolina".
All of them were founded in the late 1600's.
In fact, the only one that even talks about "Gawd" on their site is Yale, which identifies itself as providing a "liberal" education.

(the following is especially funny coming from Yale history)

About Yale | History

Yale’s roots can be traced back to the 1640s, when colonial clergymen led an effort to establish a college in New Haven to preserve the tradition of European liberal education in the New World.

(is that a hoot or what?)

Now come on people. To pretend that conservatives are all into "education" is ludicrous. Not even you guys can possibly believe that. The only education conservatives want is business so they can scam people out of their money.

Definitions of conservative:

•resistant to change
•having social or political views favoring conservatism
•a person who is reluctant to accept changes and new ideas
•button-down: unimaginatively conventional; "a colorful character in the buttoned-down, dull-grey world of business"- Newsweek
•a member of a Conservative Party

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

You sir, are not very intelligent.

I went to the College of the Ozarks. Hardwork U

College of the Ozarks, Hard Work U.

They bill themselves as a liberal arts college, and yet they are absolutely a conservative Christian college

Liberal in education terms has NOTHING to do with liberal as a political term.

Liberal arts college - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It must be sad to be so desperate for your "side" to be right about something.

Good for you. I applaud your education for what it's worth.

The truth is, the Republican Party, as a whole, does not respect education. It's true that college professors voted 12 to 1 for Obama and it's also true, according to Pew research, that very few scientists will identify themselves as Republican.

But is that any surprise? Take a good hard look at the Republican Party. At Texas and their attempt to rewrite history, or Dover and their attempt to add "mysticism" to science.

It's no surprise that education in the sciences has declined as Republicans have gained power. Republicans have taught their children to disrespect teachers and scientists and worse, education.

When Republicans talk about "those darned liberal" professors, what would they teach differently? They have their own Christian colleges. No "remarkable discoveries" are coming out of those campuses. Nothing truly innovative or new.

Take evolution away from science and what possible discoveries will be found in biology, botany and physiology?

The right just wants an "imaginary" world where their ideology "becomes" science. Well, it's not gonna happen.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The name Harvard came from a Christian Minister in 1636. That was nearly four hundred years ago. Read the Harvard Mission Statement and there is nary a mention of "Gawd'.

Mission statement - Harvard University

And I'm just, pardon the word, "mystified", why the right would think they have lots of scientists and "stuff"?

The Republican truth is they have lots of scientists and "big" thinkers.

The truth "truth" is the right has only contempt for education which is exemplified by one of their leaders, Sarah Palin. The sad thing isn't that Mother Sarah rolled her eyes when the women said she was a "teacher", but the FACT that the right wing has made "teacher" a dirty word and the woman was "ashamed" of being a teacher. She said, "I have a few other jobs". Sad and pathetic.

YouTube - Sarah Palin - The eyeroll that did not happen - Homer, Alaska, August 7, 2010

The first attempt to prove me wrong from the liberal fringe.

Harvard Divinity School

Look at that, I can actually go to Harvard and graduate with a Th.D., and then go preach the gospel at almost any church in the country. I am pretty sure that would qualify them as a Christian school to most people.

And if I had known you were still harping on that Palin eye roll thing i would have pointed out how the left is, how did you put it, Sherroding her.

1st. The woman who claimed to be a teacher is a lot of things, and a teacher is not one of them. If Palin did roll her eyes here it could possibly be because someone was falsely claiming the honorable job of teacher for herself, when what she really is is a Theater Tech, at least according to the district website.

2nd. Did you notice the "I also have other jobs," line after the "eye roll?" She sings in a drag queen band, sits on the board of the local family planning clinic, does something for a radio station, and protests a lot. Not to mention the fact that the person behind the video, Shannyn Moore, is known to post outright lies about Palin,

3rd. This was a staged setup from the beginning, and the video was clearly edited to hide the fact.

 

[ConHog]

So I go through these colleges. None of them are in "Alabama" or "South Carolina".
All of them were founded in the late 1600's.
In fact, the only one that even talks about "Gawd" on their site is Yale, which identifies itself as providing a "liberal" education.

(the following is especially funny coming from Yale history)

About Yale | History

Yale’s roots can be traced back to the 1640s, when colonial clergymen led an effort to establish a college in New Haven to preserve the tradition of European liberal education in the New World.

(is that a hoot or what?)

Now come on people. To pretend that conservatives are all into "education" is ludicrous. Not even you guys can possibly believe that. The only education conservatives want is business so they can scam people out of their money.

Definitions of conservative:

•resistant to change
•having social or political views favoring conservatism
•a person who is reluctant to accept changes and new ideas
•button-down: unimaginatively conventional; "a colorful character in the buttoned-down, dull-grey world of business"- Newsweek
•a member of a Conservative Party

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

You sir, are not very intelligent.

I went to the College of the Ozarks. Hardwork U

College of the Ozarks, Hard Work U.

They bill themselves as a liberal arts college, and yet they are absolutely a conservative Christian college

Liberal in education terms has NOTHING to do with liberal as a political term.

Liberal arts college - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It must be sad to be so desperate for your "side" to be right about something.

Good for you. I applaud your education for what it's worth.

The truth is, the Republican Party, as a whole, does not respect education. It's true that college professors voted 12 to 1 for Obama and it's also true, according to Pew research, that very few scientists will identify themselves as Republican.

But is that any surprise? Take a good hard look at the Republican Party. At Texas and their attempt to rewrite history, or Dover and their attempt to add "mysticism" to science.

It's no surprise that education in the sciences has declined as Republicans have gained power. Republicans have taught their children to disrespect teachers and scientists and worse, education.

When Republicans talk about "those darned liberal" professors, what would they teach differently? They have their own Christian colleges. No "remarkable discoveries" are coming out of those campuses. Nothing truly innovative or new.

Take evolution away from science and what possible discoveries will be found in biology, botany and physiology?

The right just wants an "imaginary" world where their ideology "becomes" science. Well, it's not gonna happen.

This discussion is about liberals and conservatives, not democrats and republicans, so take your sillly little 6% argument somewhere else.

As for your ridiculous notion that nothing good ever comes out of conservative colleges. Well, that is more than ridiculous. Anyone with even half an ounce of common sense and honesty would admit that liberal/conservative really doesn't have anything to do with innovation.

Probably the two greatest scientists in the history of the world were Galilleo and Albert Einstein. Galileao was a practicing Catholic, Einstein an atheist. Guess that dispels your theory huh?

As for your notion that conservatives have taught their children to misbehave LOL. I live in a small community and have set on the local school board for several years now, and can tell you without hesitation that the children who's parents don't assist in disciplining their children are liberal touchy feely "let kids be kids" types, not conservatives who believe in teaching values.

Do you even know the meaning of the word honesty?

 

[LuckyDan]

I go to a college that I suppose would be considered Liberal. In my personal experiences, only one professor talked about anything related to current events and it was to inform students about the goings on in Asia. Makes sense since it was a Non-Western World class focused on Japan and China.

Though another professor had us go to the local Jewish Community Center to listen to someone speak who lived in Nazi Germany before World War II and how she barely escaped with her family.

Though this semester, taking Global Competition: The United States and Its Trading Partners. It should be a interesting class.

We have both a Democrat group and Republican group on campus. I'm involved with neither though. Oh, and of course the Socialists. Funny enough, last semester they were walking around the campus with a huge picture of Obama with a Hitler mustache. Turns out they dislike Obama as much as the right on here who think he's a socialist. Though I know some people on USMB do not want to hear that.

So, if there were an outspoken con prof on campus, you would know?

What I'm getting at is, if the faculty's political spectrum ran from con to lib, you could identify a con prof, right? Whereas if the spectrum runs moderate to liberal, things might seem more harmonious.

Sound like there isn't much boat-rockin' on your campus. No?

 

[syrenn]

Its not politically correct to be conservative. Colleges live in a PC world.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I go to a college that I suppose would be considered Liberal. In my personal experiences, only one professor talked about anything related to current events and it was to inform students about the goings on in Asia. Makes sense since it was a Non-Western World class focused on Japan and China.

Though another professor had us go to the local Jewish Community Center to listen to someone speak who lived in Nazi Germany before World War II and how she barely escaped with her family.

Though this semester, taking Global Competition: The United States and Its Trading Partners. It should be a interesting class.

We have both a Democrat group and Republican group on campus. I'm involved with neither though. Oh, and of course the Socialists. Funny enough, last semester they were walking around the campus with a huge picture of Obama with a Hitler mustache. Turns out they dislike Obama as much as the right on here who think he's a socialist. Though I know some people on USMB do not want to hear that.

Sounds about right to me.

 

[Modbert]

So, if there were an outspoken con prof on campus, you would know?

What I'm getting at is, if the faculty's political spectrum ran from con to lib, you could identify a con prof, right? Whereas if the spectrum runs moderate to liberal, things might seem more harmonious.

Sound like there isn't much boat-rockin' on your campus. No?

There aren't any outspoken Conservative or Liberal professors far as I know. I don't know any and I have plenty of friends who are History majors or related majors.

 

[ConHog]

So, if there were an outspoken con prof on campus, you would know?

What I'm getting at is, if the faculty's political spectrum ran from con to lib, you could identify a con prof, right? Whereas if the spectrum runs moderate to liberal, things might seem more harmonious.

Sound like there isn't much boat-rockin' on your campus. No?

There aren't any outspoken Conservative or Liberal professors far as I know. I don't know any and I have plenty of friends who are History majors or related majors.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

So I go through these colleges. None of them are in "Alabama" or "South Carolina".

I bet I am going to enjoy this.

What does the fact that they are not in Alabama or South Carolina have to do with this discussion?

All of them were founded in the late 1600's.
In fact, the only one that even talks about "Gawd" on their site is Yale, which identifies itself as providing a "liberal" education.

Wanna bet on that?

Princeton Theological Seminary

(the following is especially funny coming from Yale history)

About Yale | History

Yale’s roots can be traced back to the 1640s, when colonial clergymen led an effort to establish a college in New Haven to preserve the tradition of European liberal education in the New World.

(is that a hoot or what?)

Maybe you should look up what that means sometime, you might learn something. (I doubt it, but it is always possible.)

The original seven liberal arts, in the classical world, consisted of the trivium of deductive reasoning comprised of grammar, logic, and rhetoric, and the quadrivium of quantitative reasoning, which encompassed geometry, astronomy, arithmetic, and music. In Rethinking Liberal Education (1996), Bruce Kimball describes how the medieval European universities added to the seven liberal arts "the three philosophies": natural philosophy (empirical science), moral philosophy (human thought and behavior), and metaphysics (ontology, or the study of being).

Elements of a Liberal Education - Catalog | Grinnell College

Gee, that means it is not about politics, or even about believing in God, (though the traditional European education always came from church sponsored schools.) it is about what is taught. If only you were capable of thinking beyond labels you might not always end up looking like a fool.

Now come on people. To pretend that conservatives are all into "education" is ludicrous. Not even you guys can possibly believe that. The only education conservatives want is business so they can scam people out of their money.

Yet you pretend that you know what you are talking about.

Definitions of conservative:

•resistant to change
•having social or political views favoring conservatism
•a person who is reluctant to accept changes and new ideas
•button-down: unimaginatively conventional; "a colorful character in the buttoned-down, dull-grey world of business"- Newsweek
•a member of a Conservative Party

You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Does that mean I should stop trying to reason with you?