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Since we are making up stories....
I work for a conservative business owner
I told him that our employees do not have health insurance and will go bankrupt if they have a major illness. He said screw them, they are not my problem let the taxpayer pick up their healthcare costs
I explained that I agreed with him and that businesses should not be the ones providing healthcare and that it should be a government function. He jumped up and screamed THATS SOCIALISM
I explained that his attitude is just the problem that Obamacare faced, that no matter what solution was proposed, conservatives tried to block it
He replied....LET THEM DIE
The OP's story has credibility. Even if the story is a tall tale, it reflects exactly what can happen.
Yours is nothing more than a typical liberal talking point where you claim that conservatives dont give a fuck about their employees....something that is never proven.....
Sorry, but for places like Papa Johns and Walmart, it IS about greed.
And what about the hundreds of thousands of small and mid-size businesses who are already struggling in a tough economy, doing everything they can just to keep their business afloat?
What would you tell them?
.
The could hire 3 more full timers and a gazillion part timers and expand their business, if this story is even true, and not have to provide their employees health care coverage.
I'm very surprised that an employer of 47 full time employees isn't already providing health care coverage.
Someone else will fill the void.
Since we are making up stories....
I work for a conservative business owner
I told him that our employees do not have health insurance and will go bankrupt if they have a major illness. He said screw them, they are not my problem let the taxpayer pick up their healthcare costs
I explained that I agreed with him and that businesses should not be the ones providing healthcare and that it should be a government function. He jumped up and screamed THATS SOCIALISM
I explained that his attitude is just the problem that Obamacare faced, that no matter what solution was proposed, conservatives tried to block it
He replied....LET THEM DIE
So I have to share this because it really pisses me off. So I manage a business for two owners who are absolutely fabulous people...I mean wonderful people and I love them to death...but they are flaming liberals and can't see their hand two inches past their nose. So prior to the election they tasked me with setting up a plan fo expansion into a second location. Now I know the books and so the other day we meet and ask my plan and my response was: "I don't think we can expand now"
"Why not?" they asked confused.
"Well," I said. "Right now our company has 47 employees. Expanding to a second locaton will put us over the 50 employee limit on Obamacare and we will have to pay health benefits for every one of our employees or pay the fine to avoid it. After looking at the books, that will bankrupt us." I explained.
"But our business is ready to take the next step." they said to me.
"Yes it is," I responded "but we can't afford to anymore. The good old days of expanding according to sales and demand are over." I explained. "That's not the way it works anymore."
"Well why not?" they asked sincerely.
"Well because of the Affordable Health Care Act" I said. I then explained all the implications and do you know what their response was? These flaming liberals who voted for Obama and pounded the "health care is a human right" angle? Know what they said to me? They said "Well we have to find a loophole to get out of this. We can't afford that. it will end our business."
I was tempted at that point to reach across the table and strangle them both screaming "this is what you voted for mother fuckers!!!!" but I kept my cool. I said slowly "the business landscape has changed. Now here are our options.....#1 cut every employee to below 30 hours a week. If they go over 30 hours we fire them on the spot."
"Well how will they support their families on only 30 hours a week?" they asked.
"If they go over 30 hours after the expansion," I explained "then you will support their families directly from your own pocket because the business cannot sustain the expense incurred by Obamacare." I got incredulous at this point. "Jesus fucking Christ have you not been paying attention?" I was met with silence.
"Now the other option is to expand to the new location but to sub-contract labor to a different entity. Technically, you will have no new employees and be under the 50 cap. On the other hand you have to entrust your labor to a totally different business...and don't even think about creating a dummy corporation yourself to hire those workers under unless you want a nice battle with the IRS for fraud. It will have to be a completely unrelated business with totally unrelated ownership."
So after a while of them thinking they looked at me and asked.
"So what you are saying is that we can't expand our business unless we slash the hours of our employees who need every hour they can get, sub-contract out our labor an allow an independent business to control our labor, or just say fuck it and not expand at all?"
i said "Yep"
"THAT'S TOTAL BULLSHIT" they screamed
"That's what you voted for" I said calmly risking my job.
I didn't get fired. The expansion will not take place. 45 jobs set and ready just got lost thanks to Obamacare.
Sorry, but for places like Papa Johns and Walmart, it IS about greed.
And what about the hundreds of thousands of small and mid-size businesses who are already struggling in a tough economy, doing everything they can just to keep their business afloat?
What would you tell them?
.
I would tell them that the Affordable Care Act Helps Small Businesses.
How many of these "struggling small and mid size businesses" employ 50 or more people? If you DO employee 50 or more people, why aren't you already providing health care?
sorry, blue.. no one cuts jobs they need to meet demand because of a health care plan.
perhaps you should support a single-payor system?
Since we are making up stories....
I work for a conservative business owner
I told him that our employees do not have health insurance and will go bankrupt if they have a major illness. He said screw them, they are not my problem let the taxpayer pick up their healthcare costs
I explained that I agreed with him and that businesses should not be the ones providing healthcare and that it should be a government function. He jumped up and screamed THATS SOCIALISM
I explained that his attitude is just the problem that Obamacare faced, that no matter what solution was proposed, conservatives tried to block it
He replied....LET THEM DIE
The OP's story has credibility. Even if the story is a tall tale, it reflects exactly what can happen.
Yours is nothing more than a typical liberal talking point where you claim that conservatives dont give a fuck about their employees....something that is never proven.....
I don't think my employer should be making healthcare decisions for me. It is not in his best interests. The obvious solution would be a national healthcare system with NO insurance companies as middle men
Since that was deemed socialism from the right, the next obvious solution is for the government to set up insurance pools so that people could qualify for group rates.
That was derided as a government takeover of healthcare. The only remaining solution is to maintain what we have now with employers providing health insurance
It sucks, but that is what we ended up with
Since we are making up stories....
I work for a conservative business owner
I told him that our employees do not have health insurance and will go bankrupt if they have a major illness. He said screw them, they are not my problem let the taxpayer pick up their healthcare costs
I explained that I agreed with him and that businesses should not be the ones providing healthcare and that it should be a government function. He jumped up and screamed THATS SOCIALISM
I explained that his attitude is just the problem that Obamacare faced, that no matter what solution was proposed, conservatives tried to block it
He replied....LET THEM DIE
The OP's story has credibility. Even if the story is a tall tale, it reflects exactly what can happen.
Yours is nothing more than a typical liberal talking point where you claim that conservatives dont give a fuck about their employees....something that is never proven.....
The could hire 3 more full timers and a gazillion part timers and expand their business, if this story is even true, and not have to provide their employees health care coverage.
I'm very surprised that an employer of 47 full time employees isn't already providing health care coverage.
Someone else will fill the void.
you cant successfully expand a business with all part timers. It is impossible. Dedication of employees does not become an asset unless they are full time.
You need to understand how to run and expand a business to successfully engage in a debate on this topic.
Employee dedication and loyalty is very important to a small business....if one employee is not dedicated, the quality of the work/product/service is only as good as that one "non dedicated" employee.
Employees who need a job to keep health insurance are dedicated
you cant successfully expand a business with all part timers. It is impossible. Dedication of employees does not become an asset unless they are full time.
You need to understand how to run and expand a business to successfully engage in a debate on this topic.
Employee dedication and loyalty is very important to a small business....if one employee is not dedicated, the quality of the work/product/service is only as good as that one "non dedicated" employee.
Employees who need a job to keep health insurance are dedicated
An employee dedicated to his/her paycheck and/or health benefits is by no means the same as an employee dedicated to the success of the business.
Thank you for making such a valid point...that is EXACTLY where there is a disconnect.
So I have to share this because it really pisses me off. So I manage a business for two owners who are absolutely fabulous people...I mean wonderful people and I love them to death...but they are flaming liberals and can't see their hand two inches past their nose. So prior to the election they tasked me with setting up a plan fo expansion into a second location. Now I know the books and so the other day we meet and ask my plan and my response was: "I don't think we can expand now"
"Why not?" they asked confused.
"Well," I said. "Right now our company has 47 employees. Expanding to a second locaton will put us over the 50 employee limit on Obamacare and we will have to pay health benefits for every one of our employees or pay the fine to avoid it. After looking at the books, that will bankrupt us." I explained.
"But our business is ready to take the next step." they said to me.
"Yes it is," I responded "but we can't afford to anymore. The good old days of expanding according to sales and demand are over." I explained. "That's not the way it works anymore."
"Well why not?" they asked sincerely.
"Well because of the Affordable Health Care Act" I said. I then explained all the implications and do you know what their response was? These flaming liberals who voted for Obama and pounded the "health care is a human right" angle? Know what they said to me? They said "Well we have to find a loophole to get out of this. We can't afford that. it will end our business."
I was tempted at that point to reach across the table and strangle them both screaming "this is what you voted for mother fuckers!!!!" but I kept my cool. I said slowly "the business landscape has changed. Now here are our options.....#1 cut every employee to below 30 hours a week. If they go over 30 hours we fire them on the spot."
"Well how will they support their families on only 30 hours a week?" they asked.
"If they go over 30 hours after the expansion," I explained "then you will support their families directly from your own pocket because the business cannot sustain the expense incurred by Obamacare." I got incredulous at this point. "Jesus fucking Christ have you not been paying attention?" I was met with silence.
"Now the other option is to expand to the new location but to sub-contract labor to a different entity. Technically, you will have no new employees and be under the 50 cap. On the other hand you have to entrust your labor to a totally different business...and don't even think about creating a dummy corporation yourself to hire those workers under unless you want a nice battle with the IRS for fraud. It will have to be a completely unrelated business with totally unrelated ownership."
So after a while of them thinking they looked at me and asked.
"So what you are saying is that we can't expand our business unless we slash the hours of our employees who need every hour they can get, sub-contract out our labor an allow an independent business to control our labor, or just say fuck it and not expand at all?"
i said "Yep"
"THAT'S TOTAL BULLSHIT" they screamed
"That's what you voted for" I said calmly risking my job.
I didn't get fired. The expansion will not take place. 45 jobs set and ready just got lost thanks to Obamacare.
sorry, blue.. no one cuts jobs they need to meet demand because of a health care plan.
perhaps you should support a single-payor system?
and btw, you deserve to be fired for 1) trash talking people that hired you in good faith and 2) giving bad advice to your clients to further your political agenda.
If this story is even true.
You should let them read your posts here, especially your polling predictions, and let them evaluate your mental capabilities.
Employees who need a job to keep health insurance are dedicated
An employee dedicated to his/her paycheck and/or health benefits is by no means the same as an employee dedicated to the success of the business.
Thank you for making such a valid point...that is EXACTLY where there is a disconnect.
You're saying that you'd be dedicated to growing a business that treats you like a piece of shit? I bet you're stupid enought to believe that if we give the rich more, they'll work harder, and if we give the poor less they'll work harder.
you cant successfully expand a business with all part timers. It is impossible. Dedication of employees does not become an asset unless they are full time.
You need to understand how to run and expand a business to successfully engage in a debate on this topic.
Employee dedication and loyalty is very important to a small business....if one employee is not dedicated, the quality of the work/product/service is only as good as that one "non dedicated" employee.
Employees who need a job to keep health insurance are dedicated
No they aren't. They're there to keep health insurance, they wish to god they could be anyplace but at work.
The could hire 3 more full timers and a gazillion part timers and expand their business, if this story is even true, and not have to provide their employees health care coverage.
I'm very surprised that an employer of 47 full time employees isn't already providing health care coverage.
Someone else will fill the void.
you cant successfully expand a business with all part timers. It is impossible. Dedication of employees does not become an asset unless they are full time.
You need to understand how to run and expand a business to successfully engage in a debate on this topic.
Employee dedication and loyalty is very important to a small business....if one employee is not dedicated, the quality of the work/product/service is only as good as that one "non dedicated" employee.
You're saying that you'd be dedicated to growing a business that treats you like a piece of shit? I bet you're stupid enought to believe that if we give the rich more, they'll work harder, and if we give the poor less they'll work harder.
and btw, you deserve to be fired for 1) trash talking people that hired you in good faith and 2) giving bad advice to your clients to further your political agenda.
If this story is even true.
You should let them read your posts here, especially your polling predictions, and let them evaluate your mental capabilities.
You think people should be hired and fired based on posts on a message board?
I think results is a better way, if someone has gotten you to the point of expansion, then they are doing something right.
Do you own or manage a business?
