Let There Be Peace Already

[theliq]

yes, but, what's a palestinians?

that's the million dollar question huh.
They are arabs and dna shows that jews and arabs are related.
epiphenom: The shared genetic heritage of jews and palestinians

yes, but, what's a palestinian?

moron

 

[Lipush]

that's the million dollar question huh.
They are arabs and dna shows that jews and arabs are related.
epiphenom: The shared genetic heritage of jews and palestinians

yes, but, what's a palestinian?

moron

A moron is a Palestinian?

ROFL

Sorry, just had to.

 

[ima]

this is not that I'm converted Jew that is Ima's problem. Ima's desperate to believe that because i wasn't BORN Jewish, that my family thinks I worth less then a "pure blooded" Jew. I told Ima this is far from the truth, but when this bigoted believe is so deeply rooted, Ima cannot except anything but the truth that racism creats for itself.

I'm sure your family loves you almost as much as if you were a real born Jew. And you ARE worth less in the eyes of Jews, because you were born a gentile. If you don't think that Jews think that they alone are god's chosen people and the rest of us are barely above shmucks, then you obviously don't know much about Judaism and your "fellow" Jews.

First of all, your statement is an oxymoron, since most people outside my family don't even know that I was born a gentile. We don't actually talk about it with strangers. So how can they think less of me.

Second, I do know the community I live in, to tell you that what you say is not true. The Jews of the world don't see themselves as better then anyone else, they simply see themselves as different from the rest of the world. Because the rest of the world rejected the Jews, isolated them, banned them, some of the Jews learned or thought that would be better to far themselves from the gentiles, since it's the only way of surviving normally. When Jews tried to blind in, they were rejected, when they pulled themselved out, people thought they were racists. it's became a lose-lose kind of situation.

I do remember that when being a child and hearing on politics and the conflict of the radio, I used to ask why is the world so blind, and what will the future bring? maybe if we just explain to them how things are, they would "leave us alone", and my dad said to me the same that his father told him after WW2. "Ein Emuna BaGoyim", "We won't put our blind faith in the gentiles", he said "only in ourselves we trust".

When my old man was young, he used to go to school in a small village near Budapest. He went there with his brother, who was 2 years older then he, and another Jewish boy in a different class. they were the 3 only Jewish boys in the whole school. the school manager happened to be extremely Antisemitic, just like many Hunganian Christians after the holocaust. The boy in the different class was maybe 10, i think even younger, while my uncle was 8 and my father just turned 6. The other boy got into a fight with other two boys, they were harrasing him for his weird accent, and he pushed one of them in a moment of fury; the school manager saw this, catched the boy from his name and spit in his face, 'Mit csinálsz, te szennye Zsidó??', ('What are you doing, you filthy Jew??') they boy was helpless then furious of the public unjustified humiliation, my father and uncle both saw this incident with the other kids in the yard, so the boy did the probably most idiotic thing an angry kid could do at the moment. he braught his right fist and punched the big man in the nose. when his grip on the boy got released, the child ran of like a squirl, jumped of the fence and was never seen again. Seeing that, my uncle took my fathers smaller hand in his, and told him, "C'mon, we're leaving". And that was the last day they learned in any school in Hungary. They knew the word will spread and they will have no permission to going back to school.

Apperenly, it's not US who think were better, like others who think we think that, while treating Jews like crap.

Jews are considered god's chosen people by some, which means that god chose them over everyone else, meaning everyone else aren't chosen by god, meaning god likes Jews more than anyone else, meaning they think that god thinks that they are more worthy/better than everyone else, meaning that "gentile" is a derogatory word, like calling a black person "boy".

 

[Lipush]

I'm sure your family loves you almost as much as if you were a real born Jew. And you ARE worth less in the eyes of Jews, because you were born a gentile. If you don't think that Jews think that they alone are god's chosen people and the rest of us are barely above shmucks, then you obviously don't know much about Judaism and your "fellow" Jews.

First of all, your statement is an oxymoron, since most people outside my family don't even know that I was born a gentile. We don't actually talk about it with strangers. So how can they think less of me.

Second, I do know the community I live in, to tell you that what you say is not true. The Jews of the world don't see themselves as better then anyone else, they simply see themselves as different from the rest of the world. Because the rest of the world rejected the Jews, isolated them, banned them, some of the Jews learned or thought that would be better to far themselves from the gentiles, since it's the only way of surviving normally. When Jews tried to blind in, they were rejected, when they pulled themselved out, people thought they were racists. it's became a lose-lose kind of situation.

I do remember that when being a child and hearing on politics and the conflict of the radio, I used to ask why is the world so blind, and what will the future bring? maybe if we just explain to them how things are, they would "leave us alone", and my dad said to me the same that his father told him after WW2. "Ein Emuna BaGoyim", "We won't put our blind faith in the gentiles", he said "only in ourselves we trust".

When my old man was young, he used to go to school in a small village near Budapest. He went there with his brother, who was 2 years older then he, and another Jewish boy in a different class. they were the 3 only Jewish boys in the whole school. the school manager happened to be extremely Antisemitic, just like many Hunganian Christians after the holocaust. The boy in the different class was maybe 10, i think even younger, while my uncle was 8 and my father just turned 6. The other boy got into a fight with other two boys, they were harrasing him for his weird accent, and he pushed one of them in a moment of fury; the school manager saw this, catched the boy from his name and spit in his face, 'Mit csinálsz, te szennye Zsidó??', ('What are you doing, you filthy Jew??') they boy was helpless then furious of the public unjustified humiliation, my father and uncle both saw this incident with the other kids in the yard, so the boy did the probably most idiotic thing an angry kid could do at the moment. he braught his right fist and punched the big man in the nose. when his grip on the boy got released, the child ran of like a squirl, jumped of the fence and was never seen again. Seeing that, my uncle took my fathers smaller hand in his, and told him, "C'mon, we're leaving". And that was the last day they learned in any school in Hungary. They knew the word will spread and they will have no permission to going back to school.

Apperenly, it's not US who think were better, like others who think we think that, while treating Jews like crap.

Jews are considered god's chosen people by some, which means that god chose them over everyone else, meaning everyone else aren't chosen by god, meaning god likes Jews more than anyone else, meaning they think that god thinks that they are more worthy/better than everyone else, meaning that "gentile" is a derogatory word, like calling a black person "boy".

The word "Gentile" is not familiar to me in a way that I can look at some deep meaning into it. The word I know is "Goy". Goy is a word which comes from the Torah, Abraham was called a Goy by HaShem(God). Goy means "nation". while reading in the bible later on, the word "Goy" means "A nation which is not Israel". It is not a word which means to be insulting or harming in any way. it a simple description.

 

[Lipush]

I have no problem with anyone converting to a religion, it's that she said she was a descendant of some white Jewish important person, and she's not, she's adopted and hispanic. Jus' sayin'.

I was adopted by Sabra Jewish mother. her family was here since the end of the 1800's. My father was not born in Israel, but he has a very well known heritage of his Jewish Rabbis grandparents, the Jewish community of Hungary is all familiar with who they were and how they lived.

I'm my patents' only daughter, and this is the family heritage I carry. I am no different than the next Israeli Jew.

This is your adoptive family's heritage, your own heritage passes through the woman (crack whore?) who gave birth to you and the man whose sperm sealed the deal.

I don't know them, nor care about them, nor hold any connection to them.

The family i have is the family who raised me. there is no question about it.

 

[MJB12741]

SO what? Converted Jews are Jews. Just like converted Christians are Christians or Muslims are Muslims.

She is Jewish by choice. Why do you have a problem with that?

Like you say, you're a converted jew, not a real one. You can speak on behalf of hispanics who converted to Judaism and moved to Israel. And NO ONE, not even you're own family considers you a real Jew, ask them and look at their faces when they say you are, you'll get your answer.

I have no problem with anyone converting to a religion, it's that she said she was a descendant of some white Jewish important person, and she's not, she's adopted and hispanic. Jus' sayin'.

 

[P F Tinmore]

SO what? Converted Jews are Jews. Just like converted Christians are Christians or Muslims are Muslims.

She is Jewish by choice. Why do you have a problem with that?

I have no problem with anyone converting to a religion, it's that she said she was a descendant of some white Jewish important person, and she's not, she's adopted and hispanic. Jus' sayin'.

True, and many Palestinian Muslims used to be Jews or Christians. Palestine is their homeland.

 

[JStone]

SO what? Converted Jews are Jews. Just like converted Christians are Christians or Muslims are Muslims.

I have no problem with anyone converting to a religion, it's that she said she was a descendant of some white Jewish important person, and she's not, she's adopted and hispanic. Jus' sayin'.

True, and many Palestinian Muslims used to be Jews or Christians. Palestine is their homeland.

Palestine is Israel, douchebag. The Romans invented the word palestine to call Israel during the Roman Empire.

No reputation points for you, loser.

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University

The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.

The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.
Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House

PBS...

In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem. Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.

It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible. But, it would not be the death of Judaism. In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David.

But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil. They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MJB12741]

Exactly right. How proud of you I am. In fact, the first & only indigenous Palestinians were Jews & then Christians. Don't you agree it's time for the Arab Muslim Palestinians to stop stealing their land?

SO what? Converted Jews are Jews. Just like converted Christians are Christians or Muslims are Muslims.

I have no problem with anyone converting to a religion, it's that she said she was a descendant of some white Jewish important person, and she's not, she's adopted and hispanic. Jus' sayin'.

True, and many Palestinian Muslims used to be Jews or Christians. Palestine is their homeland.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Exactly right. How proud of you I am. In fact, the first & only indigenous Palestinians were Jews & then Christians. Don't you agree it's time for the Arab Muslim Palestinians to stop stealing their land?

SO what? Converted Jews are Jews. Just like converted Christians are Christians or Muslims are Muslims.

True, and many Palestinian Muslims used to be Jews or Christians. Palestine is their homeland.

Contradictory post of the day.

 

[JStone]

Exactly right. How proud of you I am. In fact, the first & only indigenous Palestinians were Jews & then Christians. Don't you agree it's time for the Arab Muslim Palestinians to stop stealing their land?

SO what? Converted Jews are Jews. Just like converted Christians are Christians or Muslims are Muslims.

True, and many Palestinian Muslims used to be Jews or Christians. Palestine is their homeland.

Indigenous palestinians are really egyptians and saudis who invaded Israel a few decades ago. There are no indigenous palestinians in Israel

Palesteenian Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"

Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.

Personally, half my family is Egyptian. We are all like that.

More than 30 families in the Gaza Strip are called Al-Masri [Egyptian]

Brothers, half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis

Who are the Palestinians? we have many families called Al-Masri, whose roots are Egyptian. Egyptian! They may be from Alexandria, from Cairo, from Dumietta, from the North, from aswan, from Upper Egypt. We are Egyptians. we are Arabs. We are Muslims
Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security Fathi Hammad Slams Egypt over Fuel Shortage in Gaza Strip, and Says: "Half of the Palestinians Are Egyptians and the Other Half Are Saudis"

Winston Churchill, Secretary of "Palestine" During British Mandate to House of Commons, Parliamentary Debates, 23 May 1939

So far from being persecuted, the Arabs have crowded into the country and multiplied till their population has increased more than even all world Jewry could lift up the Jewish population.
Churchill and the Jews | Martin Gilbert | Macmillan

 

[MJB12741]

Fact is there were no Muslims at all, until the 7th century AD. Lets see now, were there Jews in Israel or Palestine before then? So who is stealing who's land? Boy, thats a tough one, huh?

 

[Saigon]

Fact is there were no Muslims at all, until the 7th century AD. Lets see now, were there Jews in Israel or Palestine before then? So who is stealing who's land? Boy, thats a tough one, huh?

Yes, it is - because there were both Jews and Arabs living in both Jericho and Jerusalem in 2,700 BC.

Arabs formed more than 90% of the population.

They continued to form the majority of the population until the 1930s, I believe.

 

[Saigon]

Exactly right. How proud of you I am. In fact, the first & only indigenous Palestinians were Jews & then Christians. Don't you agree it's time for the Arab Muslim Palestinians to stop stealing their land?

SO what? Converted Jews are Jews. Just like converted Christians are Christians or Muslims are Muslims.

True, and many Palestinian Muslims used to be Jews or Christians. Palestine is their homeland.

This really is very, very funny.

Have you though about perhaps just posting a range of random adjectives like "Jew Christian Canaanite Arab Palestinian Kurd Canuck Phoenician"?

 

[JStone]

Fact is there were no Muslims at all, until the 7th century AD. Lets see now, were there Jews in Israel or Palestine before then? So who is stealing who's land? Boy, thats a tough one, huh?

Yes, it is - because there were both Jews and Arabs living in both Jericho and Jerusalem in 2,700 BC.

Arabs formed more than 90% of the population.

They continued to form the majority of the population until the 1930s, I believe.

You have any archaeological record for Arabs in Jericho and Jerusalem in 2700 BCE? No, I didn't think so because you made it up

Eminent Middle East Historian Dr. Bernard Lewis, Professor Emeritus of Near Eastern Studies at Princeton University, Author, "The Middle East: A Brief History of the Last 2000 Years," "The Future of the Middle East," "The Shaping of the Modern Middle East," "The End of Modern History in the Middle East," Faith and Power: Religion and Politics in the Middle East"

The countries forming the western arm of the Fertile Crescent were called by the names of the various kingdoms and peoples that ruled and inhabited them. Of these, the most familiar, or at least the best documented, are the southern lands, known in the earlier books of the Hebrew Bible and some other ancient writings as Canaan. After the Israelite conquest and settlement, the area inhabited by them came to be described as "land of the children of Israel" or simply "land of Israel" After the breakup of the kingdom of David and Solomon in the tenth century BCE, the southern part, with Jerusalem as its capital, was called Judah, while the north was called Israel

It is by now commonplace that the civilizations of the Middle East are oldest known to human history. They go back thousands of years, much older than the civilizations of India and China, not to speak of other upstart places. It is also interesting, though now often forgotten, that the ancient civilizations of the Middle East were almost totally obliterated and forgotten by their own people as well as by others. Their monuments were defaced or destroyed, their languages forgotten, their scripts forgotten, their history forgotten and even their identities forgotten.

All that was known about them came from one single source, and that is Israel, the only component of the ancient Middle East to have retained their identity, their memory, their language and their books. For a very long time, up to comparatively modern times, with rare exceptions all that was known about the ancient Middle East--the Babylonians, the Egyptians and the rest--was what the Jewish tradiiton has preserved.
Amazon.com: Political Words and Ideas in Islam (9781558764248): Bernard Lewis: Books

PBS: Civilization and the Jews

The interaction of Jewish history and Western civilization successively assumed different forms. In the Biblical and Ancient periods, Israel was an integral part of the Near Eastern and classical world, which gave birth to Western civilization. It shared the traditions of ancient Mesopotamia and the rest of that world with regard to it’s own beginning; it benefited from the decline of Egypt and the other great Near Eastern empires to emerge as a nation in it’s own right; it asserted it’s claim to the divinely promised Land of Israel
PBS - Heritage

Harvard University Semitic Museum: The Houses of Ancient Israel The Houses of Ancient Israel § Semitic Museum

In archaeological terms The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine focuses on the Iron Age (1200-586 B.C.E.). Iron I (1200-1000 B.C.E.) represents the premonarchical period. Iron II (1000-586 B.C.E.) was the time of kings. Uniting the tribal coalitions of Israel and Judah in the tenth century B.C.E., David and Solomon ruled over an expanding realm. After Solomon's death (c. 930 B.C.E.) Israel and Judah separated into two kingdoms.
Israel was led at times by strong kings, Omri and Ahab in the ninth century B.C.E. and Jereboam II in the eighth.

Harvard University Semitic Museum: Jerusalem During The Reign Of King Hezekiah--New Exhibition At The Semitic Museum Re-Creates Numerous Aspects Of Ancient Israel Harvard Gazette: Jerusalem during the reign of King Hezekiah

The Semitic Museum has installed a new exhibition that brings the world of biblical Israel into vivid, three-dimensional reality. "The Houses of Ancient Israel: Domestic, Royal, Divine" immerses the viewer in Israelite daily life around the time of King Hezekiah (8th century B.C.), creating an experiential environment based on the latest archaeological, textual, and historical research.
The centerpiece of the exhibition is a full-scale Israelite house, open on one side, filled with authentic ancient artifacts that show how life was lived by common inhabitants of ancient Jerusalem. Agricultural tools, a cooking area, and a stall occupied by a single, scruffy ram fill the ground floor of the cube-shaped, mud-brick structure, which, thankfully, is not olfactorily authentic. The upper story, reached by a ladder, is devoted to eating and sleeping.

Yale University Press: The Archaeology of Ancient Israel The Archaeology of Ancient Israel - Ben-Tor, Amnon; Greenberg, R. - Yale University Press

In this lavishly illustrated book some of Israel's foremost archaeologists present a thorough, up-to-date, and readily accessible survey of early life in the land of the Bible, from the Neolithic era (eighth millennium B.C.E.) to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the First Temple in 586 B.C.E. It will be a delightful and informative resource for anyone who has ever wanted to know more about the religious, scientific, or historical background of the region.

PBS Nova ...

In the banks of the Nile in southern Egypt in 1896, British archaeologisit Flinders Petrie unearthed one of the most important discoveries in biblical archaeology known as the Merneptah Stele. Merneptah's stele announces the entrance on the world stage of a People named Israel.

The Merneptah Stele is powerful evidence that a People called the Israelites are living in Canaan over 3000 years ago

Dr. Donald Redford, Egyptologist and archaeologist: The Merneptah Stele is priceless evidence for the presence of an ethnical group called Israel in Canaan.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvg2EZAEw5c]1/13 The Bible's Buried Secrets (NOVA PBS) - YouTube[/ame]

 

[MJB12741]

Ya know, here is where the Paslestinians really blew it. First we heard they are the decendents of Assyrians, then Phoenicians, then Canaanites, then Philistines. Can you imagine how doomed Israel would have been if they had the brains to just claim they are the decendents of the lost tribes of Israel?

Exactly right. How proud of you I am. In fact, the first & only indigenous Palestinians were Jews & then Christians. Don't you agree it's time for the Arab Muslim Palestinians to stop stealing their land?

True, and many Palestinian Muslims used to be Jews or Christians. Palestine is their homeland.

This really is very, very funny.

Have you though about perhaps just posting a range of random adjectives like "Jew Christian Canaanite Arab Palestinian Kurd Canuck Phoenician"?

 

[JStone]

Ya know, here is where the Paslestinians really blew it. First we heard they are the decendents of Assyrians, then Phoenicians, then Canaanites, then Philistines. Can you imagine how doomed Israel would have been if they had the brains to just claim they are the decendents of the lost tribes of Israel?

Exactly right. How proud of you I am. In fact, the first & only indigenous Palestinians were Jews & then Christians. Don't you agree it's time for the Arab Muslim Palestinians to stop stealing their land?

This really is very, very funny.

Have you though about perhaps just posting a range of random adjectives like "Jew Christian Canaanite Arab Palestinian Kurd Canuck Phoenician"?

Eminent Archaeologist and Historian, former Fulbright Scholar Eric Cline...

The claims that modern Palestinians are descended from the ancient Jebusites are made without any supporting evidence. Historians and archaeologists have generally concluded that most, if not all, modern Palestinians are probably more closely related to the Arabs of Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Jordan and other countries than they are to the ancient Jebusites, Canaanites or Philistines.
Oxford University Press: Oxford Handbook of the Bronze Age Aegean: Eric H. Cline

Rashid Khalidi, Professor of Modern Arab Studies,
Columbia University, Director of Columbia University's Middle East Institute and advisor to various Arab groups...

There is a relatively recent tradition which argues that Palestinian nationalism has deep historical roots. As with other national movements, extreme advocates of this view anachronistically read back into the history of Palestine over the past few centuries a nationalist consciousness and identity that are in fact relatively modern. Among the manifestations of this outlook are a predilection for seeing in peoples such as the Canaanites, Jebusites and Philistines the lineal ancestors of the modern Palestinians.
Amazon.com: Palestinian Identity (9780231105156): Rashid Khalidi: Books

Eminent Middle East Historian Bernard Lewis

By [Arabs] bypassing the Biblical Israelites and claiming kinship with the Canaanites, it is possible to assert a historical claim antedating the biblical promise and possession put forward by the Jews. This line of argument isaccompanied by the common practice in Arab countries, in textbook, museums and exhibitions of minimizing the Jewish role in ancient history or, more frequently, presenting it in very negative terms.

In terms of scholarship as distinct from politics, there is no evidence whatsoever for the assertion that the Canaanites were Arabs.
http://www.amazon.com/Political-Wor...&ie=UTF8&qid=1323825054&sr=1-38&tag=ff0d01-20

Eminent Historian Sir Martin Gilbert...

On August 18 Yasir Arafat, speaking as head of the Palestinian National Authority in Gaza and Jericho, told Arab youngsters at a summer camp, "Those of you who lit the intifada fire must now act as defenders of this young state, whose capital is Jerusalem. It is Bir Salem [the fountain of Salem]. Salem was one of the Canaanite Kings, one of our forefathers. This city is the capital of our children and our children's children. If not for this belief and conviction of the Palestinian nation, this people would have been erased from the face of the earth, as were so many other nations."


King Salem is a newcomer on the historical scene. No such Canaanite, Jebusite or Philistine king is known to history.p://www.amazon.com/GilbertsThe-Routledge-History-Historical-Hardcover/dp/B0041CNUIC/ref=sr_1_24?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1333126978&sr=1-24

"Palestinian" Hamas Minister of the Interior Fathi Hammad, Al-Hekma TV [Egypt]: "Half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis"

Brothers, there are 1.8 million of us in Gaza. Allah be praised, we all have Arab roots and every Palestinian in Gaza and throughout Palestine can prove his Arab roots--whether from Saudi Arabia, from Yemen, or anywhere.

Personally, half my family is Egyptian. We are all like that.

More than 30 families in the Gaza Strip are called Al-Masri [Egyptian]

Brothers, half of the Palestiniains are Egyptians and the other half are Saudis

Who are the Palestinians? we have many families called Al-Masri, whose roots are Egyptian. Egyptian! They may be from Alexandria, from Cairo, from Dumietta, from the North, from aswan, from Upper Egypt. We are Egyptians. we are Arabs. We are Muslims
Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security Fathi Hammad Slams Egypt over Fuel Shortage in Gaza Strip, and Says: "Half of the Palestinians Are Egyptians and the Other Half Are Saudis"

 

[Saigon]

And....we're back to having the thread closed down with spam.

Great work, JStone - you killed ANOTHER Thread!! Excellent!!

 

[JStone]

And....we're back to having the thread closed down with spam.

Great work, JStone - you killed ANOTHER Thread!! Excellent!!

You're done, as usual. Run along, loser

 

[ima]

Fact is there were no Muslims at all, until the 7th century AD. Lets see now, were there Jews in Israel or Palestine before then? So who is stealing who's land? Boy, thats a tough one, huh?

The real fact is that there were no whiteys in Oz 500 years ago, so who stole whose land?