Let There Be Peace Already

[JStone]

Another brilliant unbiased replay by Tinmore. "Zionists are a bunch of pigs." So tell us Tinmore with your wealth of wisdom, are Zionist pigs kosher?

No, neither do I, but neither do I support Palestinians and Christians being expelled from their houses (i.e. around Gilo). That has definitely made the situation worse.

Jews have lived in Western Jerusalem, Tel Aviv and Galilee for thousands of years and have a right to that land.

Palestinians have lived in East Jerusalem, Akko and Jaffa for thousands of years and have a right to that land.

The only solution rests with mutual recognition of that fairly simple fact - the solution is prevented by racism and hatred on both sides, much as we see on this board. It's also interesting that most people opposing a peaeful solution don't have to live with the war!

The fact is that Christians, Muslims, and Jews all have the right to live in the holy land.

The problem is that the Zionists are a bunch of pigs who want it all for themselves. There has been war ever since and it is their war. They started it and they are the the only ones who can stop it.

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[ima]

Why are adopted children different from any regular ones?

It's in the genes. As a white person, I can't get adopted by Martin Luther King's daughter and then claim to be a descendant of him, that's absurd.

I'm Latina Mestizo, My parants roots came from Europe, if you look at us you can clearly say that I don't belong to the family.

The Israeli law, and morale law, doesn't make any difference between an adopted child and a regular child. They are my parents, I am their daughter. I feel much connected to them than to the hooker who happened to give birth to me, and the basterd father who didn't give a crap. For 20 years I belonged to that family, who are you or anyone to say i don't. That's just not true

So you're not a descendant of Jews like you claim, that's all.
And I was just saying that Jews won't ever consider you as a real Jew. Jus' sayin'.

 

[Saigon]

Ima -

I think it is up to Lipush what she feels she is, and where she feels she belongs.

If she lives in Israel and feels Israeli and Jewish - who are we to say she is not?

 

[MJB12741]

If we go back far enough in our geneology, most Christians have a Jewish bloodline. The same as Jesus, John the Baptist & the apostles. To hate Jews is to hate their own heritage.

 

[Saigon]

If we go back far enough in our geneology, most Christians have a Jewish bloodline. The same as Jesus, John the Baptist & the apostles. To hate Jews is to hate their own heritage.

No, that isn't true at all.

While there is an enormous coultural influence from Judaism in Christian/European culture, the genetic influence is limited to areas which have had a strong Ashkenazim community, e.g. Cracow, Budapest.

The impact of Jewish genes in areas like Scandinavia or Iberia is virtually nil.

 

[MJB12741]

Eh, excuse me but I believe I said "most Christians." Does Scandinavia or Iberia represent "most Christians"?

If we go back far enough in our geneology, most Christians have a Jewish bloodline. The same as Jesus, John the Baptist & the apostles. To hate Jews is to hate their own heritage.

No, that isn't true at all.

While there is an enormous coultural influence from Judaism in Christian/European culture, the genetic influence is limited to areas which have had a strong Ashkenazim community, e.g. Cracow, Budapest.

The impact of Jewish genes in areas like Scandinavia or Iberia is virtually nil.

 

[Saigon]

MJB -

No one area represents "most Christians".

But Iberia and Scandinavia are traditionally Christian societies in which there is virtualy no Jewish genetic impact on the gene pool at all. I can think of pletny of other examples as well...how much Jewish genetic heritage is there in Chile, Brazil, Guatemala, New Zealand, Flores or Uganda?

These societies all have a Jewish population of less than 1% of the total population, thus I think we can assume they have not exactly transformed the gene pool.

Even in cities like Cracow and Budapest, the 'interbreeding' between Jews and other local inhabitants was very limited, even before the ghettoization of those cities.

 

[JStone]

If we go back far enough in our geneology, most Christians have a Jewish bloodline. The same as Jesus, John the Baptist & the apostles. To hate Jews is to hate their own heritage.

Jesus was Jewish. John the Baptist was Jewish. The Apostle Paul was Jewish. The authors of the 4 Gospels were likely all Jewish.

Baptism was originally a Jewish ritual of purification

For about the first 100 years after Jesus's death ca 30 CE, the Jesus movement was mostly a Jewish sect. Those wishing to follow Jesus were first required to convert to Judaism.

 

[Saigon]

For about the first 100 years after Jesus's death ca 30 CE, the Jesus movement was mostly a Jewish sect. Those wishing to follow Jesus were first required to convert to Judaism

Even in Rome?

How many members of the court of Constantine were Jewish?

You guys seem to be figuring that Jesus, Paul and the apostles slept with several hundreds of thousands of women....!

 

[JStone]

For about the first 100 years after Jesus's death ca 30 CE, the Jesus movement was mostly a Jewish sect. Those wishing to follow Jesus were first required to convert to Judaism

Even in Rome?

How many members of the court of Constantine were Jewish?

You guys seem to be figuring that Jesus, Paul and the apostles slept with several hundreds of thousands of women....!

Er, Rome occupied Israel. Constantine converted in the 4th century CE

 

[Saigon]

How many members of the court of Constantine were Jewish?

How many Christians in Rome were Jewish?

Since you mention it - how many Roman Christians in Palestine were Jewish?

 

[MJB12741]

Do you deny that Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul, the apostles & all their followers were Jews? I repeat --- If you go back far enough in Christian geneology, "most" Christians have a Jewish bloodline. And to hate the Jews is to hate their own heritage.

MJB -

No one area represents "most Christians".

But Iberia and Scandinavia are traditionally Christian societies in which there is virtualy no Jewish genetic impact on the gene pool at all. I can think of pletny of other examples as well...how much Jewish genetic heritage is there in Chile, Brazil, Guatemala, New Zealand, Flores or Uganda?

These societies all have a Jewish population of less than 1% of the total population, thus I think we can assume they have not exactly transformed the gene pool.

Even in cities like Cracow and Budapest, the 'interbreeding' between Jews and other local inhabitants was very limited, even before the ghettoization of those cities.

 

[JStone]

How many members of the court of Constantine were Jewish?

How many Christians in Rome were Jewish?

Since you mention it - how many Roman Christians in Palestine were Jewish?

At it's highpoint, approx. 10 percent of the Roman Empire was Jewish, or, about 7 million. Of this, about 4 million were Jewish by birth and the balance Jewish converts.

Palestine is not a legitimate historical or Biblical name. The correct name of the land was Israel or Judah or Judea. "Jew" is derived from Judah.

The Romans renamed Israel "palestine" in the second century CE in retribution for the Bar Kokhba Revolt in an attempt to erase 1000 years of Jewish nationhood, in addition to Hadrian renaming Jerusalem Aelia Capitolina, named after himself, Publius Aelius Hadrianus.

 

[Saigon]

Stone -

I have explained to you twice why Palestine is as legitimate a term as German or Italian.

Please post honestly, and ideally also please acknowledge when you have been proven wrong. Posting what you know to be false is simply lying.

The term Israel is entirely 'correct', and dates back thousands of years. It seems amazing that a self-professed expert doesn't know where the word Israel comes from. It in no way conflicts with the term Judea.

Please provide proof of your claim that 10% of the Roman Empire was Jewish, and I'll take a look at it.

I think we both know that it is nonsense.

 

[JStone]

Stone -

I have explained to you twice why Palestine is as legitimate a term as German or Italian.

Please post honestly, and ideally also please acknowledge when you have been proven wrong. Posting what you know to be false is simply lying.

The term Israel is entirely 'correct', and dates back thousands of years. It seems amazing that a self-professed expert doesn't know where the word Israel comes from. It in no way conflicts with the term Judea.

Please provide proof of your claim that 10% of the Roman Empire was Jewish, and I'll take a look at it.

I think we both know that it is nonsense.

Read, learn...

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University

The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.

The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.
Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House

PBS...

In 70 AD, after a siege marked by starvation and terror crucifixions, the Roman army broke through the walls of Jerusalem. Not only did they kill thousands of Jews, they laid waste to the Temple, the only place on Earth, according to Biblical law, where Jews could worship God.

It was the death of the religion of Priests and sacrifices described by the Hebrew Bible. But, it would not be the death of Judaism. In the years ahead, some of the greatest religious minds in history would struggle to reinvent the religion of Moses and David.

But, the Jews would be forced to work during a period of almost inconceivable bloodshed and turmoil. They would watch their people be expelled from Jerusalem on pain of death and see the name of their homeland changed from Judea to Palestine

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLypbbijk2I&feature=relmfu]The Gifts of the Jews - YouTube[/ame]
PBS...

Specializing in the history of early Christianity, Paula Fredriksen is author of two books and over a dozen articles on early Christianity. Among her numerous awards and honors are a National Endowment for the Humanities grant for University Professors and a Lady Davis Visiting Professorship of Ancient Christianity at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Her second book, From Jesus to Christ: The Origins of the New Testament Images of Jesus, received the Yale Press Governors' Award for Best Book in 1988. Fredriksen holds a Ph.D. in history of religions, ancient christianity, and Greco-Roman religions from Princeton University and a theology diploma from Oxford University. She served as historical consultant for the BBC production The Lives of Jesus and was a featured speaker and historical consultant for U.S. News and World Report's "The Life and Times of Jesus."
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/etc/bios.html

 

[Saigon]

Stone -

Ok, so you have no evidence to back up your claim, and you refuse to admit when you are wrong, even though you clearly know that you are wrong.

I have to say - you may be the weakest poster on this topic I've ever seen.

I'll look at this thread and later, and if you mke any substantive and ON TOPIC comments, I will respond to them.

 

[JStone]

Stone -

Ok, so you have no evidence to back up your claim, and you refuse to admit when you are wrong, even though you clearly know that you are wrong.

I have to say - you may be the weakest poster on this topic I've ever seen.

I'll look at this thread and later, and if you mke any substantive and ON TOPIC comments, I will respond to them.

You lost, as always. Run along.

Biblical Historian and Scholar Dr. Paula Fredriksen, Professor of Religion, Boston University; Ph.D, History of Religion, Princeton University; Diploma in Theology, Oxford University

The Judean revolt against Rome was led by [Jewish rebel] Bar Kochba in 132-135 CE. The immediate causes of this rebellion are obscure. Its result was not: [Roman Emperor] Hadrian crushed the revolt and banned Jews from Judea.

The Romans now designated this territory by a political neologism, "Palestine" [a Latin form of "Philistine"], in a deliberate effort to denationalize Jewish/Judean territory. And, finally, Hadrian eradicated Jewish Jerusalem, erecting upon its ruins a new pagan city, Aelia Capitolina.
Jesus of Nazareth, King of the Jews by Paula Fredriksen - Book - Random House

PBS...

Specializing in the history of early Christianity, Paula Fredriksen is author of two books and over a dozen articles on early Christianity. Among her numerous awards and honors are a National Endowment for the Humanities grant for University Professors and a Lady Davis Visiting Professorship of Ancient Christianity at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem. Her second book, From Jesus to Christ: The Origins of the New Testament Images of Jesus, received the Yale Press Governors' Award for Best Book in 1988. Fredriksen holds a Ph.D. in history of religions, ancient christianity, and Greco-Roman religions from Princeton University and a theology diploma from Oxford University. She served as historical consultant for the BBC production The Lives of Jesus and was a featured speaker and historical consultant for U.S. News and World Report's "The Life and Times of Jesus."
Biographies | From Jesus To Christ - The First Christians | FRONTLINE | PBS

 

[Saigon]

Stone -

I have explained to you twice why Palestine is as legitimate a term as German or Italian.

Please post honestly, and ideally also please acknowledge when you have been proven wrong. Posting what you know to be false is simply lying.

The term Israel is entirely 'correct', and dates back thousands of years. It seems amazing that a self-professed expert doesn't know where the word Israel comes from. It in no way conflicts with the term Judea.

Please provide proof of your claim that 10% of the Roman Empire was Jewish, and I'll take a look at it.

I think we both know that it is nonsense.

Stone -

No one disputes that the word Palestine is relatively recent. Howver, as you have been shown, many national titles are much more recent invetions, and this in no way compromises the concept of the state.

Do you accept that Italy is a legimate state?

Either rebut these points with on topic arguments, or admit that you are wrong.

Also, please back up your claim that 10 per cent of people on Roman lands were actually Jewish.

Spamming the thread with off topic quotes is not presenting a factual and substantive point. As an expert in this field, you should know this.

 

[Lipush]

It's in the genes. As a white person, I can't get adopted by Martin Luther King's daughter and then claim to be a descendant of him, that's absurd.

I'm Latina Mestizo, My parants roots came from Europe, if you look at us you can clearly say that I don't belong to the family.

The Israeli law, and morale law, doesn't make any difference between an adopted child and a regular child. They are my parents, I am their daughter. I feel much connected to them than to the hooker who happened to give birth to me, and the basterd father who didn't give a crap. For 20 years I belonged to that family, who are you or anyone to say i don't. That's just not true

So you're not a descendant of Jews like you claim, that's all.
And I was just saying that Jews won't ever consider you as a real Jew. Jus' sayin'.

First of all, you're not a Jew, and even less, you don't know anything about my family, so you cannot possibly know how they consider me and WHAT they consider me.

Second of all, it was their choice to take me in, if people would have not consider me Jewish, my parents would not have put me in that position to start with.

And last, I have said that i'm converted.

I hope I made myself clear. I'm Jewish, I'm Israeli, therefor I can speak in behalf of someone who's a Jew and Israeli.

And you're in no position to tell me who or what I am.

 

[ima]

I'm Latina Mestizo, My parants roots came from Europe, if you look at us you can clearly say that I don't belong to the family.

The Israeli law, and morale law, doesn't make any difference between an adopted child and a regular child. They are my parents, I am their daughter. I feel much connected to them than to the hooker who happened to give birth to me, and the basterd father who didn't give a crap. For 20 years I belonged to that family, who are you or anyone to say i don't. That's just not true

So you're not a descendant of Jews like you claim, that's all.
And I was just saying that Jews won't ever consider you as a real Jew. Jus' sayin'.

First of all, you're not a Jew, and even less, you don't know anything about my family, so you cannot possibly know how they consider me and WHAT they consider me.

Second of all, it was their choice to take me in, if people would have not consider me Jewish, my parents would not have put me in that position to start with.

And last, I have said that i'm converted.

I hope I made myself clear. I'm Jewish, I'm Israeli, therefor I can speak in behalf of someone who's a Jew and Israeli.

And you're in no position to tell me who or what I am.

Like you say, you're a converted jew, not a real one. You can speak on behalf of hispanics who converted to Judaism and moved to Israel. And NO ONE, not even you're own family considers you a real Jew, ask them and look at their faces when they say you are, you'll get your answer.