Zone1 legalisation of hard drugs : bad idea?

[Blaster]

If that were true, why then were not Americans killed by drugs from 1800 to 1914 when drugs were perfectly legal?

They were killed by drugs during that period of time.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

They were killed by drugs during that period of time.

Drugs have killed Americans in all generations.

 

[PeterPilot]

They were killed by drugs during that period of time.

Maybe, maybe not. In those days prior to Harrison, drugs were sold by doctors and pharmacists. After Harrison they are sold on street corners by young criminals created by the prohibition. Which is better for society?

 

[initforme]

We wouldn't have a drug problem at all if we had a society that centered on American morals, values, pride and standards. And if we pushed responsibility, ambition, intelligence, family, Christianity and just being a decent person. People instilled with those things would be much much less likely to abuse drugs because they have fulfilling lives. People devoid of those things will seek out drugs.

If you have a society of people who have goals, ambition, pride, strength, intelligence, a work ethic, something to live for, safety, and so on then drugs aren't much of an issue.

Drugs are a bi product of a bad society. The worse the drug problems get is a direct reflection of the society.

Drugs, much like gun violence and crime are a direct result of a society of bad people. If you don't address the root cause those things will never go away.

You bring up some solid points. Just don't forget many successful people turned to drugs because they were pushed too hard at work, at school, to be strong, etc. We overwork people in america. They're tired, stressed out. And we keep asking them to work harder. Get up early, work until exhausted. Same thing day after day after day with maybe 3 lousy weeks of paid vacation. And we wonder why they don't want kids. America has done it to its own citizens. The rat race has caused a good portion of this. It's madness. Insanity. And then when people break we call them weak.

 

[Blaster]

Maybe, maybe not. In those days prior to Harrison, drugs were sold by doctors and pharmacists. After Harrison they are sold on street corners by young criminals created by the prohibition. Which is better for society?

Neither

 

[PeterPilot]

Neither

Neither?

That means you see no difference between licensed and tax-paying health professionals selling drugs, and the criminal element not paying taxes and often carrying firearms selling the drugs. That is an awkward position to take.

I see a big difference between drugs being sold by healthcare professionals and drugs being sold by street criminals. That obvious distinction was a large factor in why the country abandoned that model caused by the Volstead Act. Prohibition hurts all of society, users and non-users.

 

[Blaster]

Neither?

That means you see no difference between licensed and tax-paying health professionals selling drugs, and the criminal element not paying taxes and often carrying firearms selling the drugs. That is an awkward position to take.

I see a big difference between drugs being sold by healthcare professionals and drugs being sold by street criminals. That obvious distinction was a large factor in why the country abandoned that model caused by the Volstead Act. Prohibition hurts all of society, users and non-users.

Many prescription drugs are addictive and have serious side effects. If more folks would adopt a healthier lifestyle they could avoid relying on them.

 

[PeterPilot]

Many prescription drugs are addictive and have serious side effects. If more folks would adopt a healthier lifestyle they could avoid relying on them.

Caffeine and nicotine are very addictive too, yet somehow society survives by taxing them minimally and selling them over the counter, no prescription necessary.

People always have and always will use drugs, whether nicotine, caffeine, alcohol or others. Legislation is unable to make people live as you want them to live.

 

[Blaster]

Caffeine and nicotine are very addictive too, yet somehow society survives by taxing them minimally and selling them over the counter, no prescription necessary.

People always have and always will use drugs, whether nicotine, caffeine, alcohol or others. Legislation is unable to make people live as you want them to live.

I don't have a problem with how other folks live but I try to avoid bad habits.

 

[TruthNotBS]

‘Horrific: Perry’s ex reveals his desperate attempt to stop drugs
Tragic Friends star Matthew Perry resorted to gluing his hands to his knees to stop himself taking more drugs, former girlfriend Kayti Edwards has revealed.

Remote : 2023-12-24(Sunday) 10 : 50 : 16
Local : 2023-12-24(Sunday) 10 : 50 : 16
Found via World Headlines on nicer.app

in my humble opinion, hard drugs just drives a person towards criminality, insanity, or a little of both.
what's your thoughts on this topic?

Substance abuse should be decriminalized while the dealing and smuggling of hard-narcotics made into a capital crime, with at least a mandatory life sentence without parole and ideally execution. Those who use hard drugs should be admitted through adjudication into rehab treatment or institutionalized in a mental asylum until they're able to function in society. Drug addicts are suffering from a medical condition, and shouldn't be criminalized but rather treated by medical professionals as patients.

 

[peacefan]

Substance abuse should be decriminalized while the dealing and smuggling of hard-narcotics made into a capital crime, with at least a mandatory life sentence without parole and ideally execution. Those who use hard drugs should be admitted through adjudication into rehab treatment or institutionalized in a mental asylum until they're able to function in society. Drug addicts are suffering from a medical condition, and shouldn't be criminalized but rather treated by medical professionals as patients.

yeah, capital punishment for drug traffickers has worked well in Asia.
but on the other hand, other replies in this thread did convince me to, if it were up to me, allow medically diluted versions of hard drugs to be used in specific therapeutical settings.

 

[peacefan]

Caffeine and nicotine are very addictive too, yet somehow society survives by taxing them minimally and selling them over the counter, no prescription necessary.

People always have and always will use drugs, whether nicotine, caffeine, alcohol or others. Legislation is unable to make people live as you want them to live.

there's a big difference between softdrugs and harddrugs though.
hard drugs disables a person's ability to get regular work done entirely, and is so addictive that one wants to do nothing else but consume it.
softdrugs tends to do the same, but to a lesser degree, and the addiction to it can be offset by doing 'regular fun things'..

and of course, an addiction prone person has a certain intensity to his/her addiction(s), which is determined on an individual basis.

but i disagree with you that legislation is unable to make people live as you want them to live.
cops (and the legal system!) guard us against citizen-on-citizen violence.
they can guard us against the excesses of addiction problems too.

 

[PeterPilot]

there's a big difference between softdrugs and harddrugs though.
hard drugs disables a person's ability to get regular work done entirely, and is so addictive that one wants to do nothing else but consume it.
softdrugs tends to do the same, but to a lesser degree, and the addiction to it can be offset by doing 'regular fun things'..

and of course, an addiction prone person has a certain intensity to his/her addiction(s), which is determined on an individual basis.

but i disagree with you that legislation is unable to make people live as you want them to live.
cops (and the legal system!) guard us against citizen-on-citizen violence.
they can guard us against the excesses of addiction problems too.

You're a dreamer. I'm a realist. Soft drugs / hard drugs is a simple view, too simple. If you actually believe that the police guard us against citizen-on-citizen violence you must live in an ivory tower.

 

[initforme]

As a nation we need to ask less of our workers. Then less turn to drugs. They're pushed too hard.

 

[Captain Caveman]

‘Horrific: Perry’s ex reveals his desperate attempt to stop drugs
Tragic Friends star Matthew Perry resorted to gluing his hands to his knees to stop himself taking more drugs, former girlfriend Kayti Edwards has revealed.

Remote : 2023-12-24(Sunday) 10 : 50 : 16
Local : 2023-12-24(Sunday) 10 : 50 : 16
Found via World Headlines on nicer.app

in my humble opinion, hard drugs just drives a person towards criminality, insanity, or a little of both.
what's your thoughts on this topic?

Legalise or decriminalise?

 

[peacefan]

Legalise or decriminalise?

as i explained in my previous posts in this thread, i think that would just empower the cartels.

with legalisation and/or decriminalisation, you'd provide a legal pathway into the drug consumption habit.
and that is a sliding scale into criminal and/or mentally unstable behavior.

 

[Captain Caveman]

as i explained in my previous posts in this thread, i think that would just empower the cartels.

with legalisation and/or decriminalisation, you'd provide a legal pathway into the drug consumption habit.
and that is a sliding scale into criminal and/or mentally unstable behavior.

It's just that Portugal decriminalised drugs as opposed to legalise them and saw massive results.

Personally, if someone is stupid enough to do drugs, I'm all for them buying drug substitutes from pharmacies, thus paying sales tax. That way, the Cartels are out of business and the country receives tax income.

 

[peacefan]

It's just that Portugal decriminalised drugs as opposed to legalise them and saw massive results.

Personally, if someone is stupid enough to do drugs, I'm all for them buying drug substitutes from pharmacies, thus paying sales tax. That way, the Cartels are out of business and the country receives tax income.

in my country (The Netherlands), we also decriminalised soft-drugs use and even some forms of hard-drugs use (methadone instead of heroine, administred usually via a psychiatric care contract or other government organized form of healthcare).

but that didn't prevent beggars in the streets, looking for some cash to spend on food, because they're hooked on drugs
and in other parts of the world, the cartels would just supply people with cheaper dope than the pharmacy would provide, at the risk of the user losing his/her life...

 

[peacefan]

You're a dreamer. I'm a realist. Soft drugs / hard drugs is a simple view, too simple. If you actually believe that the police guard us against citizen-on-citizen violence you must live in an ivory tower.

ok, i'll bite that bait.
how is it too simple a view? what's the "real view" according to you?

and yes, i honestly believe that without police the average citizen would live in fear of the ghetto inhabitants.

 

[PeterPilot]

ok, i'll bite that bait.
how is it too simple a view? what's the "real view" according to you?

and yes, i honestly believe that without police the average citizen would live in fear of the ghetto inhabitants.

If drugs can be grouped or described by their toxicity, whether and how much of a given drug it takes to poison the human, would that be how it is classified as hard or soft? If that is NOT how you would classify it, I would sure be interested in hearing how you would propose to classify 'hard' and 'soft'.

IF you would propose using toxicity as the measure, then you must accept that alcohol, aspirin, acetaminophen and a large number of currently used OTC drugs would be classified as 'hard'.

In this country we have witnessed the blatant failure of 2 legislative efforts to stop humans from using certain substances. The first was the failure and subsequent repeal of the Volstead Act regarding alcohol, and the second is the current drug prohibition failure.

They are failures for society as they harm society, but they are huge successes for the administrative state, as our Bureau of Prisons and all the enforcement mechanisms have thrived.