Leftist of today are NOT Liberal

[EverCurious]

I was once a proud card carrying Liberal Democrat during the late 80s all throughout the 90s and it wasn't until the aftermath of 911 that I switched to become a registered Independent.



However I still hold to most of those same Liberal views but today during these presents times I don't have that much in common with the majority of my leftist friends and relatives when it comes to their leftists views. Sure back in the day then there were far leftists fringes that wanted communism and there were the Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground terrorists bombing buildings and also race baiting hustlers such as Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson but even back then the majority of Liberals and denounced them and rightfully so. Today the majority of leftists embraces them and hails them as heroes and even embracing Marxism, Socialism and Communism. Back in the day, we wanted bigger government but no where close to the extreme that Obama expanded government. We use to support immigration and wanted to help productive illegals and other productive green carders from other nations to become citizens. However, back in the day we never supported open borders and giving tax payers funded welfare to criminals.



Back in the day, free speech was the cornerstone of Liberalism and today most leftists wants to shut down anyone with opposing views falsely claiming hate speech. In fact most leftists supports and endorses Antifa and their violence against anyone and everyone with opposing views. Back in the day, Liberals would never condone their actions.



Identity Politics and categorizing people's race, gender and sexual preferences of today's leftism also goes against old school Liberalism. What ever happen to the classic all men and women of all races, genders and sexual orientation of being equal instead of the special treatment that they demand today and to now vilify white straight men in the most hateful racist manner ? It goes against Martin Luther King jr's dream of people being judge by their content of their character instead of color of their skin. The SJW of today are so insufferable. They're divisive and are setting race relations back to pre civil rights era. Black Lives Matter is clearly a hateful, racist anti white, violent anarchist organization. They block freeways, they riot and burn down buildings looting and destroying people's businesses and inspiring the fringe elements to kill cops and the majority of the left supports them and smear and labels anyone and everyone that criticizes or condemns BLM as racists. Old school liberalism would have condemn BLM just as much as the KKK and the neo Nazis and rightfully so.



Also gone are the Liberal Democratic politicians fighting for the blue collared working class workers and has previously put Americans first. Now they put special interest groups and illegal immigrants ahead of the working middle class.

Those are just some examples.

Am I right? Where am I going wrong?

I'm just gonna say I feel for you man. I used to have a lot of respect for "classical" liberals, like my mother, and I've spent much of my life fighting for the "middle" compromise between right and left on social and fiscal issues. The modern left, in my honest opinion, has lost their fucking mind, as well as their "rudder" for what they stand for.

A belated welcome to the middle I, it sucks ass because you have to compromise some of your beliefs sometimes, but I personally can't see there being a "truer" way to be politically. (regardless of if you're a fiscal right or a social right, a social conservative or left, etc.) To join either [R or D] party these days seems to be an all or nothing proposition, which goes entirely against my personal belief in human individuality.

Thanks Also it sounds like you still have respect for classic Liberals and I'm assuming that I share a lot of Liberal view as your mother did. I don't know if I can say that the modern left has lost their minds.... perhaps some. It seems more like brainwashed, rewired and radicalized by something or someone. I, an 80s, 90s and early 2000s Liberal who still holds most of my same liberal views from that era can't even have a discussion with modern leftist without being called a racist or a nazi, It's so baffling.

I do, I also have a lot of respect for Christians despite being an agnostic (and often times I waffle atheist) and in fact having serious issues with institutional religion. I was raised in the 80s, but in Alaska which is quite a bit more conservative than the lower 48 - the joke is that Alaska has been stuck in the 50s - and I gotta say, for the most part, even being an LGBT (or... well that's debated, because I'm bi but I fell in love with my current husband who doesn't let me mess around, so some say I'm actually not bi "anymore" - which of course deflates their entire argument that its not a choice, but I digress...)

I'm afraid I have a different theory on what went wrong; the short version being that the DNC's need for votes, and pathological altruism, that caused the "bat shit." That's to say, when you win "women's right to vote" you gotta find something else to fight for and that is necessarily going to be more radical (see first, second, and third wave feminism.) They did the same thing with SSM, won that, gotta invent a new "cause" to rally behind - they chose transgender bathroom rights (and here's the pathological altruism part) not ONE of the transgenders I know has ever given a shit about using their "preferred gender" bathroom - most of them just use the one they're dressed as; if they can pull of looking like a woman they used that one, if they couldn't they used the other one; and no one on either side gave a shit until the D party tried to make it a law.

 

[Political Junky]

Seems cons don't understand what a Liberal is. Some call Hitler, Mussolini and Franco Liberals.

 

[EverCurious]

Seems cons don't understand what a Liberal is. Some call Hitler, Mussolini and Franco Liberals.

I think that goes both ways son.

 

[AgentSparky]

Totally agree with you about how they lost their rudder.

It's pretty sad and revealing when they take the position that gays have more of a Constitutional right to get married than a child in the womb has to their life or to the equal protections of our laws.

I always supported gay marriage even long before Hillary and Obama did and still do and it's a done deal and it will will never be over turned.

As for abortions, I guess I'm slightly leaning pro choice. I don't like abortions, I find it somewhat disturbing but I believe it should be up to families and the woman to make that decision not the government nor any organized religions although I believe christian hospitals should be exempted from performing abortions ........... also tax payers should NOT be obligated to pay for them. If someone wants an abortion, they, themselves should pay for it. Also go to a community general Hospital instead of harassing a Saint Mary's Hospital run by nuns who clearly can't allow that procedure because it's against their religion.

 

[frigidweirdo]

I was once a proud card carrying Liberal Democrat during the late 80s all throughout the 90s and it wasn't until the aftermath of 911 that I switched to become a registered Independent.



However I still hold to most of those same Liberal views but today during these presents times I don't have that much in common with the majority of my leftist friends and relatives when it comes to their leftists views. Sure back in the day then there were far leftists fringes that wanted communism and there were the Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground terrorists bombing buildings and also race baiting hustlers such as Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson but even back then the majority of Liberals and denounced them and rightfully so. Today the majority of leftists embraces them and hails them as heroes and even embracing Marxism, Socialism and Communism. Back in the day, we wanted bigger government but no where close to the extreme that Obama expanded government. We use to support immigration and wanted to help productive illegals and other productive green carders from other nations to become citizens. However, back in the day we never supported open borders and giving tax payers funded welfare to criminals.



Back in the day, free speech was the cornerstone of Liberalism and today most leftists wants to shut down anyone with opposing views falsely claiming hate speech. In fact most leftists supports and endorses Antifa and their violence against anyone and everyone with opposing views. Back in the day, Liberals would never condone their actions.



Identity Politics and categorizing people's race, gender and sexual preferences of today's leftism also goes against old school Liberalism. What ever happen to the classic all men and women of all races, genders and sexual orientation of being equal instead of the special treatment that they demand today and to now vilify white straight men in the most hateful racist manner ? It goes against Martin Luther King jr's dream of people being judge by their content of their character instead of color of their skin. The SJW of today are so insufferable. They're divisive and are setting race relations back to pre civil rights era. Black Lives Matter is clearly a hateful, racist anti white, violent anarchist organization. They block freeways, they riot and burn down buildings looting and destroying people's businesses and inspiring the fringe elements to kill cops and the majority of the left supports them and smear and labels anyone and everyone that criticizes or condemns BLM as racists. Old school liberalism would have condemn BLM just as much as the KKK and the neo Nazis and rightfully so.



Also gone are the Liberal Democratic politicians fighting for the blue collared working class workers and has previously put Americans first. Now they put special interest groups and illegal immigrants ahead of the working middle class.

Those are just some examples.

Am I right? Where am I going wrong?

A lot of people are just partisan. They don't hold strong convictions about anything, they don't really know what they're talking about. A work colleague is like that. She has an opinion on everything, wants to be liberal, but really she's wrong on most things.

 

[jillian]

what "free speech" has been shut down?

You're kidding, right? Are you really going to claim ignorance to all the Berkley and NYC incidents this year?

the trump nazis get to scream as much as they want

.there you go screaming Nazi Nazi Nazi .... thanks for proving my point that I was making in my original post.

but when people say hate-filled, ignorant, evil, moronic things,.

And who are you to declare what speech is " hate-filled, ignorant, evil"?

there are repercussions. .

You mean getting punched in the face, pepper sprayed or getting their skull cracked open by a bicycle lock by radical leftists Yes, you're so right about the repercussions.

First Why? because anyone can be as stupid as they want... but it's going to come back at them?.

Yes because God forbid someone says something that you disagree with and triggers you.

but let's talk about the trumptards stomping on the freedom of speech of anyone who isn't white, straight, christian and male?.

Yes lets talk about that. Please enlighten me by citing some examples of "trumptard" stomping on the freedom of speech of anyone who isn't white, straight, christian and male!

some football players exercise their right to protest the unpunished killing of unarmed black males. what happens? the orange imbecile and his henchpeople throw an insane hissy fit.

You mean snowflake footballs players kneeling and disrespecting the flag and all that served and died during the national anthem?t. Oh and Newsflash: it's not just Trump supporters that are appalled at the pathetic display of disrespect and rightfully calling them out on it. The empty seats and the ratings of the games on TV with viewership spiking down seems to support that .

Oh and get this... the kneeling race baiting snowflakes aren't getting punched in the face punched in nor pepper sprayed nor getting their skull cracked open by a bicycle lock by the people that are appalled by their disrespect,

or is free speech only for white supremacists?

Serously!!!!! You sound so brainwashed. Who or what put these thoughts in your head?

no, sparky. I'm not kidding. but I am bored of whiny little trumptard snowflakes constantly complaining.... and then calling everyone else snowflakes. it's a good way to not have to discuss your ignorant uninformed positions.

so thanks for letting us all know that you think standing up to shooting unarmed black males is being a "snowflake".

feel free to file your complaints in the circular file. because angry white christian male bigots never like anyone with brown skin standing up to them. same thing happened when they wanted to vote. and no, these young men aren't shot because they don't "follow orders" from cops.

so instead of whining about snowflakes, sparky, maybe you should try to actually be a decent person and think about what it would mean to have to tell your son that he is not going to be treated like white people and always, always has to be worried that he'll be shot for no reason. and b) stop whining, you whiny little creep.

other people matter besides angry white male christian supremacists.

 

[jillian]

Totally agree with you about how they lost their rudder.

It's pretty sad and revealing when they take the position that gays have more of a Constitutional right to get married than a child in the womb has to their life or to the equal protections of our laws.

I always supported gay marriage even long before Hillary and Obama did and still do and it's a done deal and it will will never be over turned.

As for abortions, I guess I'm slightly leaning pro choice. I don't like abortions, I find it somewhat disturbing but I believe it should be up to families and the woman to make that decision not the government nor any organized religions although I believe christian hospitals should be exempted from performing abortions ........... also tax payers should NOT be obligated to pay for them. If someone wants an abortion, they, themselves should pay for it. Also go to a community general Hospital instead of harassing a Saint Mary's Hospital run by nuns who clearly can't allow that procedure because it's against their religion.

no one "likes" abortion". the sole question is when does the governmental interest overtake that of the person whose body it is. you don't have to like it. you have to accept that some decisions aren't the province of government.

end of story.

 

[jillian]

I was once a proud card carrying Liberal Democrat during the late 80s all throughout the 90s and it wasn't until the aftermath of 911 that I switched to become a registered Independent.



However I still hold to most of those same Liberal views but today during these presents times I don't have that much in common with the majority of my leftist friends and relatives when it comes to their leftists views. Sure back in the day then there were far leftists fringes that wanted communism and there were the Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground terrorists bombing buildings and also race baiting hustlers such as Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson but even back then the majority of Liberals and denounced them and rightfully so. Today the majority of leftists embraces them and hails them as heroes and even embracing Marxism, Socialism and Communism. Back in the day, we wanted bigger government but no where close to the extreme that Obama expanded government. We use to support immigration and wanted to help productive illegals and other productive green carders from other nations to become citizens. However, back in the day we never supported open borders and giving tax payers funded welfare to criminals.



Back in the day, free speech was the cornerstone of Liberalism and today most leftists wants to shut down anyone with opposing views falsely claiming hate speech. In fact most leftists supports and endorses Antifa and their violence against anyone and everyone with opposing views. Back in the day, Liberals would never condone their actions.



Identity Politics and categorizing people's race, gender and sexual preferences of today's leftism also goes against old school Liberalism. What ever happen to the classic all men and women of all races, genders and sexual orientation of being equal instead of the special treatment that they demand today and to now vilify white straight men in the most hateful racist manner ? It goes against Martin Luther King jr's dream of people being judge by their content of their character instead of color of their skin. The SJW of today are so insufferable. They're divisive and are setting race relations back to pre civil rights era. Black Lives Matter is clearly a hateful, racist anti white, violent anarchist organization. They block freeways, they riot and burn down buildings looting and destroying people's businesses and inspiring the fringe elements to kill cops and the majority of the left supports them and smear and labels anyone and everyone that criticizes or condemns BLM as racists. Old school liberalism would have condemn BLM just as much as the KKK and the neo Nazis and rightfully so.



Also gone are the Liberal Democratic politicians fighting for the blue collared working class workers and has previously put Americans first. Now they put special interest groups and illegal immigrants ahead of the working middle class.

Those are just some examples.

Am I right? Where am I going wrong?

what "free speech" has been shut down?

the trump nazis get to scream as much as they want. but when people say hate-filled, ignorant, evil, moronic things, there are repercussions. Why? because anyone can be as stupid as they want... but it's going to come back at them?

but let's talk about the trumptards stomping on the freedom of speech of anyone who isn't white, straight, christian and male? some football players exercise their right to protest the unpunished killing of unarmed black males. what happens? the orange imbecile and his henchpeople throw an insane hissy fit.

or is free speech only for white supremacists?

It’s the same ignorance of the law common to most on the right: conservatives who don’t understand that the right to free speech concerns solely the relationship between government and those governed, not between and among private persons and organizations.

One private citizen cannot ‘violate’ the free speech rights of another private person; private citizens who oppose the hate speech of rightwing bigots do not have the authority to ‘shut down’ hate speech.

no one is shutting down their right to be disgusting bigots. but look at the whiny little snowflakes cry when you call them what they are.

 

[jillian]

I was once a proud card carrying Liberal Democrat during the late 80s all throughout the 90s and it wasn't until the aftermath of 911 that I switched to become a registered Independent.



However I still hold to most of those same Liberal views but today during these presents times I don't have that much in common with the majority of my leftist friends and relatives when it comes to their leftists views. Sure back in the day then there were far leftists fringes that wanted communism and there were the Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground terrorists bombing buildings and also race baiting hustlers such as Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson but even back then the majority of Liberals and denounced them and rightfully so. Today the majority of leftists embraces them and hails them as heroes and even embracing Marxism, Socialism and Communism. Back in the day, we wanted bigger government but no where close to the extreme that Obama expanded government. We use to support immigration and wanted to help productive illegals and other productive green carders from other nations to become citizens. However, back in the day we never supported open borders and giving tax payers funded welfare to criminals.



Back in the day, free speech was the cornerstone of Liberalism and today most leftists wants to shut down anyone with opposing views falsely claiming hate speech. In fact most leftists supports and endorses Antifa and their violence against anyone and everyone with opposing views. Back in the day, Liberals would never condone their actions.



Identity Politics and categorizing people's race, gender and sexual preferences of today's leftism also goes against old school Liberalism. What ever happen to the classic all men and women of all races, genders and sexual orientation of being equal instead of the special treatment that they demand today and to now vilify white straight men in the most hateful racist manner ? It goes against Martin Luther King jr's dream of people being judge by their content of their character instead of color of their skin. The SJW of today are so insufferable. They're divisive and are setting race relations back to pre civil rights era. Black Lives Matter is clearly a hateful, racist anti white, violent anarchist organization. They block freeways, they riot and burn down buildings looting and destroying people's businesses and inspiring the fringe elements to kill cops and the majority of the left supports them and smear and labels anyone and everyone that criticizes or condemns BLM as racists. Old school liberalism would have condemn BLM just as much as the KKK and the neo Nazis and rightfully so.



Also gone are the Liberal Democratic politicians fighting for the blue collared working class workers and has previously put Americans first. Now they put special interest groups and illegal immigrants ahead of the working middle class.

Those are just some examples.

Am I right? Where am I going wrong?

I'm just gonna say I feel for you man. I used to have a lot of respect for "classical" liberals, like my mother, and I've spent much of my life fighting for the "middle" compromise between right and left on social and fiscal issues. The modern left, in my honest opinion, has lost their fucking mind, as well as their "rudder" for what they stand for.

A belated welcome to the middle I, it sucks ass because you have to compromise some of your beliefs sometimes, but I personally can't see there being a "truer" way to be politically. (regardless of if you're a fiscal right or a social right, a social conservative or left, etc.) To join either [R or D] party these days seems to be an all or nothing proposition, which goes entirely against my personal belief in human individuality.

Totally agree with you about how they lost their rudder.

It's pretty sad and revealing when they take the position that gays have more of a Constitutional right to get married than a child in the womb has to their life or to the equal protections of our laws.

That's the rub. They don't see a child in the womb as a child, so to them it's not like that. Same thing with gays getting married too really, you see it as a sin, they see it as "celebrating love."

Its always difficult to see the "other" side, it's harder still when you have deeply held beliefs. I'd say that we all need some lessons about respecting others beliefs when it comes to the "big picture" of a nation. I know there's some stuff you just cannot compromise on - the idea that conception begins life is probably one of them (gay marriage isn't on the same level imo) That's one that we should probably leave off the FED rule, and leave it to individual states, or cities maybe IMHO, but I know what you're saying, even if I happen to be on the other side of that issue... I'm a my body, my choice sort - but not without some fucking rules; for example, fathers should have a say in having a kid or not [aka we need some kind of mens abortion rights, both for having and not having], and it ain't fucking birth control it's a damned serious decision (and indeed I do believe it's killing, but I suppose you could say I see it more along the lines of... euthanasia for pets because really there's no other comparison. Hard decision but sometimes it /is/ for the best of everyone, including the child - can't force a mom to want a baby she doesn't want, and she'll treat that kid like fucking shit, just like my husbands father was "forced" to marry his mother because of their pregnancy, he treated my husband like dog shit his entire life because of that.)

I guess the bottom line is that it's impossible to stay true to /everyone's/ beliefs.

luckily in this country we each get to follow our own religious beliefs. and the religious believes of religious zealots have no play in our laws. and they certainly don't get to tell the rest of us what to do. that's the beauty of the 1st amendment.

they're free to not get abortions if that is their belief. they need to leave everyone else alone.

btw, they aren't "pro life" if they think killing doctors is ok. and they aren't pro life if they abandon mother and child after birth.... which they do. these angry, mostly male, extremists are pro birth and then want to punish the harlots while the men sit there and do nothing to help.

if it were about life... they wouldn't try to take away the ability of women to undergo IVF, which they do....

and if they actually gave a damn about unwanted pregnancies, they'd be activists on behalf of sex education and contraceptive availability. they aren't.... it's about imposing their religious views on everyone else.

so basically... they want to force women to have children they don't want, and keep women from having children they do.....

because .... Jesus.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I was once a proud card carrying Liberal Democrat during the late 80s all throughout the 90s and it wasn't until the aftermath of 911 that I switched to become a registered Independent.



However I still hold to most of those same Liberal views but today during these presents times I don't have that much in common with the majority of my leftist friends and relatives when it comes to their leftists views. Sure back in the day then there were far leftists fringes that wanted communism and there were the Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground terrorists bombing buildings and also race baiting hustlers such as Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson but even back then the majority of Liberals and denounced them and rightfully so. Today the majority of leftists embraces them and hails them as heroes and even embracing Marxism, Socialism and Communism. Back in the day, we wanted bigger government but no where close to the extreme that Obama expanded government. We use to support immigration and wanted to help productive illegals and other productive green carders from other nations to become citizens. However, back in the day we never supported open borders and giving tax payers funded welfare to criminals.



Back in the day, free speech was the cornerstone of Liberalism and today most leftists wants to shut down anyone with opposing views falsely claiming hate speech. In fact most leftists supports and endorses Antifa and their violence against anyone and everyone with opposing views. Back in the day, Liberals would never condone their actions.



Identity Politics and categorizing people's race, gender and sexual preferences of today's leftism also goes against old school Liberalism. What ever happen to the classic all men and women of all races, genders and sexual orientation of being equal instead of the special treatment that they demand today and to now vilify white straight men in the most hateful racist manner ? It goes against Martin Luther King jr's dream of people being judge by their content of their character instead of color of their skin. The SJW of today are so insufferable. They're divisive and are setting race relations back to pre civil rights era. Black Lives Matter is clearly a hateful, racist anti white, violent anarchist organization. They block freeways, they riot and burn down buildings looting and destroying people's businesses and inspiring the fringe elements to kill cops and the majority of the left supports them and smear and labels anyone and everyone that criticizes or condemns BLM as racists. Old school liberalism would have condemn BLM just as much as the KKK and the neo Nazis and rightfully so.



Also gone are the Liberal Democratic politicians fighting for the blue collared working class workers and has previously put Americans first. Now they put special interest groups and illegal immigrants ahead of the working middle class.

Those are just some examples.

Am I right? Where am I going wrong?

It's tough to figure out when to use an "s" at the end and when not to, ain't it?

 

[EverCurious]

I was once a proud card carrying Liberal Democrat during the late 80s all throughout the 90s and it wasn't until the aftermath of 911 that I switched to become a registered Independent.



However I still hold to most of those same Liberal views but today during these presents times I don't have that much in common with the majority of my leftist friends and relatives when it comes to their leftists views. Sure back in the day then there were far leftists fringes that wanted communism and there were the Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground terrorists bombing buildings and also race baiting hustlers such as Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson but even back then the majority of Liberals and denounced them and rightfully so. Today the majority of leftists embraces them and hails them as heroes and even embracing Marxism, Socialism and Communism. Back in the day, we wanted bigger government but no where close to the extreme that Obama expanded government. We use to support immigration and wanted to help productive illegals and other productive green carders from other nations to become citizens. However, back in the day we never supported open borders and giving tax payers funded welfare to criminals.



Back in the day, free speech was the cornerstone of Liberalism and today most leftists wants to shut down anyone with opposing views falsely claiming hate speech. In fact most leftists supports and endorses Antifa and their violence against anyone and everyone with opposing views. Back in the day, Liberals would never condone their actions.



Identity Politics and categorizing people's race, gender and sexual preferences of today's leftism also goes against old school Liberalism. What ever happen to the classic all men and women of all races, genders and sexual orientation of being equal instead of the special treatment that they demand today and to now vilify white straight men in the most hateful racist manner ? It goes against Martin Luther King jr's dream of people being judge by their content of their character instead of color of their skin. The SJW of today are so insufferable. They're divisive and are setting race relations back to pre civil rights era. Black Lives Matter is clearly a hateful, racist anti white, violent anarchist organization. They block freeways, they riot and burn down buildings looting and destroying people's businesses and inspiring the fringe elements to kill cops and the majority of the left supports them and smear and labels anyone and everyone that criticizes or condemns BLM as racists. Old school liberalism would have condemn BLM just as much as the KKK and the neo Nazis and rightfully so.



Also gone are the Liberal Democratic politicians fighting for the blue collared working class workers and has previously put Americans first. Now they put special interest groups and illegal immigrants ahead of the working middle class.

Those are just some examples.

Am I right? Where am I going wrong?

I'm just gonna say I feel for you man. I used to have a lot of respect for "classical" liberals, like my mother, and I've spent much of my life fighting for the "middle" compromise between right and left on social and fiscal issues. The modern left, in my honest opinion, has lost their fucking mind, as well as their "rudder" for what they stand for.

A belated welcome to the middle I, it sucks ass because you have to compromise some of your beliefs sometimes, but I personally can't see there being a "truer" way to be politically. (regardless of if you're a fiscal right or a social right, a social conservative or left, etc.) To join either [R or D] party these days seems to be an all or nothing proposition, which goes entirely against my personal belief in human individuality.

Totally agree with you about how they lost their rudder.

It's pretty sad and revealing when they take the position that gays have more of a Constitutional right to get married than a child in the womb has to their life or to the equal protections of our laws.

That's the rub. They don't see a child in the womb as a child, so to them it's not like that. Same thing with gays getting married too really, you see it as a sin, they see it as "celebrating love."

Its always difficult to see the "other" side, it's harder still when you have deeply held beliefs. I'd say that we all need some lessons about respecting others beliefs when it comes to the "big picture" of a nation. I know there's some stuff you just cannot compromise on - the idea that conception begins life is probably one of them (gay marriage isn't on the same level imo) That's one that we should probably leave off the FED rule, and leave it to individual states, or cities maybe IMHO, but I know what you're saying, even if I happen to be on the other side of that issue... I'm a my body, my choice sort - but not without some fucking rules; for example, fathers should have a say in having a kid or not [aka we need some kind of mens abortion rights, both for having and not having], and it ain't fucking birth control it's a damned serious decision (and indeed I do believe it's killing, but I suppose you could say I see it more along the lines of... euthanasia for pets because really there's no other comparison. Hard decision but sometimes it /is/ for the best of everyone, including the child - can't force a mom to want a baby she doesn't want, and she'll treat that kid like fucking shit, just like my husbands father was "forced" to marry his mother because of their pregnancy, he treated my husband like dog shit his entire life because of that.)

I guess the bottom line is that it's impossible to stay true to /everyone's/ beliefs.

luckily in this country we each get to follow our own religious beliefs. and the religious believes of religious zealots have no play in our laws. and they certainly don't get to tell the rest of us what to do. that's the beauty of the 1st amendment.

they're free to not get abortions if that is their belief. they need to leave everyone else alone.

btw, they aren't "pro life" if they think killing doctors is ok. and they aren't pro life if they abandon mother and child after birth.... which they do. these angry, mostly male, extremists are pro birth and then want to punish the harlots while the men sit there and do nothing to help.

if it were about life... they wouldn't try to take away the ability of women to undergo IVF, which they do....

and if they actually gave a damn about unwanted pregnancies, they'd be activists on behalf of sex education and contraceptive availability. they aren't.... it's about imposing their religious views on everyone else.

so basically... they want to force women to have children they don't want, and keep women from having children they do.....

because .... Jesus.

Great job completely missing the entire point of my post based on the example given there dear. You've completely proven my point perfectly in the process though: you have /zero/ interest in even /trying/ to see the "other side" of the argument because /you/ think you /know/ better. Same shit, different side of the coin.

 

[jillian]

I was once a proud card carrying Liberal Democrat during the late 80s all throughout the 90s and it wasn't until the aftermath of 911 that I switched to become a registered Independent.



However I still hold to most of those same Liberal views but today during these presents times I don't have that much in common with the majority of my leftist friends and relatives when it comes to their leftists views. Sure back in the day then there were far leftists fringes that wanted communism and there were the Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground terrorists bombing buildings and also race baiting hustlers such as Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson but even back then the majority of Liberals and denounced them and rightfully so. Today the majority of leftists embraces them and hails them as heroes and even embracing Marxism, Socialism and Communism. Back in the day, we wanted bigger government but no where close to the extreme that Obama expanded government. We use to support immigration and wanted to help productive illegals and other productive green carders from other nations to become citizens. However, back in the day we never supported open borders and giving tax payers funded welfare to criminals.



Back in the day, free speech was the cornerstone of Liberalism and today most leftists wants to shut down anyone with opposing views falsely claiming hate speech. In fact most leftists supports and endorses Antifa and their violence against anyone and everyone with opposing views. Back in the day, Liberals would never condone their actions.



Identity Politics and categorizing people's race, gender and sexual preferences of today's leftism also goes against old school Liberalism. What ever happen to the classic all men and women of all races, genders and sexual orientation of being equal instead of the special treatment that they demand today and to now vilify white straight men in the most hateful racist manner ? It goes against Martin Luther King jr's dream of people being judge by their content of their character instead of color of their skin. The SJW of today are so insufferable. They're divisive and are setting race relations back to pre civil rights era. Black Lives Matter is clearly a hateful, racist anti white, violent anarchist organization. They block freeways, they riot and burn down buildings looting and destroying people's businesses and inspiring the fringe elements to kill cops and the majority of the left supports them and smear and labels anyone and everyone that criticizes or condemns BLM as racists. Old school liberalism would have condemn BLM just as much as the KKK and the neo Nazis and rightfully so.



Also gone are the Liberal Democratic politicians fighting for the blue collared working class workers and has previously put Americans first. Now they put special interest groups and illegal immigrants ahead of the working middle class.

Those are just some examples.

Am I right? Where am I going wrong?

I'm just gonna say I feel for you man. I used to have a lot of respect for "classical" liberals, like my mother, and I've spent much of my life fighting for the "middle" compromise between right and left on social and fiscal issues. The modern left, in my honest opinion, has lost their fucking mind, as well as their "rudder" for what they stand for.

A belated welcome to the middle I, it sucks ass because you have to compromise some of your beliefs sometimes, but I personally can't see there being a "truer" way to be politically. (regardless of if you're a fiscal right or a social right, a social conservative or left, etc.) To join either [R or D] party these days seems to be an all or nothing proposition, which goes entirely against my personal belief in human individuality.

Totally agree with you about how they lost their rudder.

It's pretty sad and revealing when they take the position that gays have more of a Constitutional right to get married than a child in the womb has to their life or to the equal protections of our laws.

That's the rub. They don't see a child in the womb as a child, so to them it's not like that. Same thing with gays getting married too really, you see it as a sin, they see it as "celebrating love."

Its always difficult to see the "other" side, it's harder still when you have deeply held beliefs. I'd say that we all need some lessons about respecting others beliefs when it comes to the "big picture" of a nation. I know there's some stuff you just cannot compromise on - the idea that conception begins life is probably one of them (gay marriage isn't on the same level imo) That's one that we should probably leave off the FED rule, and leave it to individual states, or cities maybe IMHO, but I know what you're saying, even if I happen to be on the other side of that issue... I'm a my body, my choice sort - but not without some fucking rules; for example, fathers should have a say in having a kid or not [aka we need some kind of mens abortion rights, both for having and not having], and it ain't fucking birth control it's a damned serious decision (and indeed I do believe it's killing, but I suppose you could say I see it more along the lines of... euthanasia for pets because really there's no other comparison. Hard decision but sometimes it /is/ for the best of everyone, including the child - can't force a mom to want a baby she doesn't want, and she'll treat that kid like fucking shit, just like my husbands father was "forced" to marry his mother because of their pregnancy, he treated my husband like dog shit his entire life because of that.)

I guess the bottom line is that it's impossible to stay true to /everyone's/ beliefs.

luckily in this country we each get to follow our own religious beliefs. and the religious believes of religious zealots have no play in our laws. and they certainly don't get to tell the rest of us what to do. that's the beauty of the 1st amendment.

they're free to not get abortions if that is their belief. they need to leave everyone else alone.

btw, they aren't "pro life" if they think killing doctors is ok. and they aren't pro life if they abandon mother and child after birth.... which they do. these angry, mostly male, extremists are pro birth and then want to punish the harlots while the men sit there and do nothing to help.

if it were about life... they wouldn't try to take away the ability of women to undergo IVF, which they do....

and if they actually gave a damn about unwanted pregnancies, they'd be activists on behalf of sex education and contraceptive availability. they aren't.... it's about imposing their religious views on everyone else.

so basically... they want to force women to have children they don't want, and keep women from having children they do.....

because .... Jesus.

Great job completely missing the entire point of my post based on the example given there dear. You've completely proven my point perfectly in the process though: you have /zero/ interest in even /trying/ to see the "other side" of the argument because /you/ think you /know/ better. Same shit, different side of the coin.

thanks for proving my point about how anti-choice men have no respect for women ..... dear.

I don't have to see the "other side" because my beliefs don't keep them from making THEIR OWN CHOICES.

 

[Votto]

I was once a proud card carrying Liberal Democrat during the late 80s all throughout the 90s and it wasn't until the aftermath of 911 that I switched to become a registered Independent.



However I still hold to most of those same Liberal views but today during these presents times I don't have that much in common with the majority of my leftist friends and relatives when it comes to their leftists views. Sure back in the day then there were far leftists fringes that wanted communism and there were the Bill Ayers and the Weather Underground terrorists bombing buildings and also race baiting hustlers such as Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson but even back then the majority of Liberals and denounced them and rightfully so. Today the majority of leftists embraces them and hails them as heroes and even embracing Marxism, Socialism and Communism. Back in the day, we wanted bigger government but no where close to the extreme that Obama expanded government. We use to support immigration and wanted to help productive illegals and other productive green carders from other nations to become citizens. However, back in the day we never supported open borders and giving tax payers funded welfare to criminals.



Back in the day, free speech was the cornerstone of Liberalism and today most leftists wants to shut down anyone with opposing views falsely claiming hate speech. In fact most leftists supports and endorses Antifa and their violence against anyone and everyone with opposing views. Back in the day, Liberals would never condone their actions.



Identity Politics and categorizing people's race, gender and sexual preferences of today's leftism also goes against old school Liberalism. What ever happen to the classic all men and women of all races, genders and sexual orientation of being equal instead of the special treatment that they demand today and to now vilify white straight men in the most hateful racist manner ? It goes against Martin Luther King jr's dream of people being judge by their content of their character instead of color of their skin. The SJW of today are so insufferable. They're divisive and are setting race relations back to pre civil rights era. Black Lives Matter is clearly a hateful, racist anti white, violent anarchist organization. They block freeways, they riot and burn down buildings looting and destroying people's businesses and inspiring the fringe elements to kill cops and the majority of the left supports them and smear and labels anyone and everyone that criticizes or condemns BLM as racists. Old school liberalism would have condemn BLM just as much as the KKK and the neo Nazis and rightfully so.



Also gone are the Liberal Democratic politicians fighting for the blue collared working class workers and has previously put Americans first. Now they put special interest groups and illegal immigrants ahead of the working middle class.

Those are just some examples.

Am I right? Where am I going wrong?

Racist

 

[Votto]

Behold, the modern liberal.

As for tolerance of free speech, what would the left have done if someone did this to Obama?

 

[Mac1958]

Am I right? Where am I going wrong?

You're exactly right, they're not liberal, they're illiberal leftist authoritarians. They're Regressive Leftists.

Liberals are open-minded, curious, tolerant and positive. Regressives are closed-minded, incurious, intolerant and hateful. You'll see many Regressives on this board.

Here's some good news for you: You're not alone. Here are some actual, honest liberals who are horrified by what has happened to the Left. You're in good company in your opinion. The first is the liberal Brit who coined the term "Regressive Left":
.

 

[EverCurious]

I'm just gonna say I feel for you man. I used to have a lot of respect for "classical" liberals, like my mother, and I've spent much of my life fighting for the "middle" compromise between right and left on social and fiscal issues. The modern left, in my honest opinion, has lost their fucking mind, as well as their "rudder" for what they stand for.

A belated welcome to the middle I, it sucks ass because you have to compromise some of your beliefs sometimes, but I personally can't see there being a "truer" way to be politically. (regardless of if you're a fiscal right or a social right, a social conservative or left, etc.) To join either [R or D] party these days seems to be an all or nothing proposition, which goes entirely against my personal belief in human individuality.

Totally agree with you about how they lost their rudder.

It's pretty sad and revealing when they take the position that gays have more of a Constitutional right to get married than a child in the womb has to their life or to the equal protections of our laws.

That's the rub. They don't see a child in the womb as a child, so to them it's not like that. Same thing with gays getting married too really, you see it as a sin, they see it as "celebrating love."

Its always difficult to see the "other" side, it's harder still when you have deeply held beliefs. I'd say that we all need some lessons about respecting others beliefs when it comes to the "big picture" of a nation. I know there's some stuff you just cannot compromise on - the idea that conception begins life is probably one of them (gay marriage isn't on the same level imo) That's one that we should probably leave off the FED rule, and leave it to individual states, or cities maybe IMHO, but I know what you're saying, even if I happen to be on the other side of that issue... I'm a my body, my choice sort - but not without some fucking rules; for example, fathers should have a say in having a kid or not [aka we need some kind of mens abortion rights, both for having and not having], and it ain't fucking birth control it's a damned serious decision (and indeed I do believe it's killing, but I suppose you could say I see it more along the lines of... euthanasia for pets because really there's no other comparison. Hard decision but sometimes it /is/ for the best of everyone, including the child - can't force a mom to want a baby she doesn't want, and she'll treat that kid like fucking shit, just like my husbands father was "forced" to marry his mother because of their pregnancy, he treated my husband like dog shit his entire life because of that.)

I guess the bottom line is that it's impossible to stay true to /everyone's/ beliefs.

luckily in this country we each get to follow our own religious beliefs. and the religious believes of religious zealots have no play in our laws. and they certainly don't get to tell the rest of us what to do. that's the beauty of the 1st amendment.

they're free to not get abortions if that is their belief. they need to leave everyone else alone.

btw, they aren't "pro life" if they think killing doctors is ok. and they aren't pro life if they abandon mother and child after birth.... which they do. these angry, mostly male, extremists are pro birth and then want to punish the harlots while the men sit there and do nothing to help.

if it were about life... they wouldn't try to take away the ability of women to undergo IVF, which they do....

and if they actually gave a damn about unwanted pregnancies, they'd be activists on behalf of sex education and contraceptive availability. they aren't.... it's about imposing their religious views on everyone else.

so basically... they want to force women to have children they don't want, and keep women from having children they do.....

because .... Jesus.

Great job completely missing the entire point of my post based on the example given there dear. You've completely proven my point perfectly in the process though: you have /zero/ interest in even /trying/ to see the "other side" of the argument because /you/ think you /know/ better. Same shit, different side of the coin.

thanks for proving my point about how anti-choice men have no respect for women ..... dear.

I don't have to see the "other side" because my beliefs don't keep them from making THEIR OWN CHOICES.

I'm a woman and I'm pro-choice, however, the entire point of my example, my entire post, was that people are UNABLE (or unwilling) to see the other side.

YOU are bitching about women's choice, calling it disrespect for women - you're fucking biased woman, its actually about respect for children and life. You are /unable/ to see their side of the coin and instead of taking a step back to see how THEY see it (KILLING FUCKING CHILDREN) you chose to say they hate women - YOU are part of the problem.

 

[Mac1958]

 

[Desperado]

Liberals used to be America loving people, today they are anti American communists

 

[jillian]

Totally agree with you about how they lost their rudder.

It's pretty sad and revealing when they take the position that gays have more of a Constitutional right to get married than a child in the womb has to their life or to the equal protections of our laws.

That's the rub. They don't see a child in the womb as a child, so to them it's not like that. Same thing with gays getting married too really, you see it as a sin, they see it as "celebrating love."

Its always difficult to see the "other" side, it's harder still when you have deeply held beliefs. I'd say that we all need some lessons about respecting others beliefs when it comes to the "big picture" of a nation. I know there's some stuff you just cannot compromise on - the idea that conception begins life is probably one of them (gay marriage isn't on the same level imo) That's one that we should probably leave off the FED rule, and leave it to individual states, or cities maybe IMHO, but I know what you're saying, even if I happen to be on the other side of that issue... I'm a my body, my choice sort - but not without some fucking rules; for example, fathers should have a say in having a kid or not [aka we need some kind of mens abortion rights, both for having and not having], and it ain't fucking birth control it's a damned serious decision (and indeed I do believe it's killing, but I suppose you could say I see it more along the lines of... euthanasia for pets because really there's no other comparison. Hard decision but sometimes it /is/ for the best of everyone, including the child - can't force a mom to want a baby she doesn't want, and she'll treat that kid like fucking shit, just like my husbands father was "forced" to marry his mother because of their pregnancy, he treated my husband like dog shit his entire life because of that.)

I guess the bottom line is that it's impossible to stay true to /everyone's/ beliefs.

luckily in this country we each get to follow our own religious beliefs. and the religious believes of religious zealots have no play in our laws. and they certainly don't get to tell the rest of us what to do. that's the beauty of the 1st amendment.

they're free to not get abortions if that is their belief. they need to leave everyone else alone.

btw, they aren't "pro life" if they think killing doctors is ok. and they aren't pro life if they abandon mother and child after birth.... which they do. these angry, mostly male, extremists are pro birth and then want to punish the harlots while the men sit there and do nothing to help.

if it were about life... they wouldn't try to take away the ability of women to undergo IVF, which they do....

and if they actually gave a damn about unwanted pregnancies, they'd be activists on behalf of sex education and contraceptive availability. they aren't.... it's about imposing their religious views on everyone else.

so basically... they want to force women to have children they don't want, and keep women from having children they do.....

because .... Jesus.

Great job completely missing the entire point of my post based on the example given there dear. You've completely proven my point perfectly in the process though: you have /zero/ interest in even /trying/ to see the "other side" of the argument because /you/ think you /know/ better. Same shit, different side of the coin.

thanks for proving my point about how anti-choice men have no respect for women ..... dear.

I don't have to see the "other side" because my beliefs don't keep them from making THEIR OWN CHOICES.

I'm a woman and I'm pro-choice, however, the entire point of my example, my entire post, was that people are UNABLE (or unwilling) to see the other side.

YOU are bitching about women's choice, calling it disrespect for women - you're fucking biased woman, its actually about respect for children and life. You are /unable/ to see their side of the coin and instead of taking a step back to see how THEY see it (KILLING FUCKING CHILDREN) you chose to say they hate women - YOU are part of the problem.

you know what I've learned about those people? they couldn't care less about what we think. they can believe what they want. they can't impose their beliefs on others. 80% of them are male and it is about exercising dominance over women. they care nothing about life.... if they did, they'd make sure that mothers and babies had adequate resources.

my assumption when you patronized me with "dear", that you were male.

again, nothing others do is there business. these are personal, personal decisions.

 

[EverCurious]

That's the rub. They don't see a child in the womb as a child, so to them it's not like that. Same thing with gays getting married too really, you see it as a sin, they see it as "celebrating love."

Its always difficult to see the "other" side, it's harder still when you have deeply held beliefs. I'd say that we all need some lessons about respecting others beliefs when it comes to the "big picture" of a nation. I know there's some stuff you just cannot compromise on - the idea that conception begins life is probably one of them (gay marriage isn't on the same level imo) That's one that we should probably leave off the FED rule, and leave it to individual states, or cities maybe IMHO, but I know what you're saying, even if I happen to be on the other side of that issue... I'm a my body, my choice sort - but not without some fucking rules; for example, fathers should have a say in having a kid or not [aka we need some kind of mens abortion rights, both for having and not having], and it ain't fucking birth control it's a damned serious decision (and indeed I do believe it's killing, but I suppose you could say I see it more along the lines of... euthanasia for pets because really there's no other comparison. Hard decision but sometimes it /is/ for the best of everyone, including the child - can't force a mom to want a baby she doesn't want, and she'll treat that kid like fucking shit, just like my husbands father was "forced" to marry his mother because of their pregnancy, he treated my husband like dog shit his entire life because of that.)

I guess the bottom line is that it's impossible to stay true to /everyone's/ beliefs.

luckily in this country we each get to follow our own religious beliefs. and the religious believes of religious zealots have no play in our laws. and they certainly don't get to tell the rest of us what to do. that's the beauty of the 1st amendment.

they're free to not get abortions if that is their belief. they need to leave everyone else alone.

btw, they aren't "pro life" if they think killing doctors is ok. and they aren't pro life if they abandon mother and child after birth.... which they do. these angry, mostly male, extremists are pro birth and then want to punish the harlots while the men sit there and do nothing to help.

if it were about life... they wouldn't try to take away the ability of women to undergo IVF, which they do....

and if they actually gave a damn about unwanted pregnancies, they'd be activists on behalf of sex education and contraceptive availability. they aren't.... it's about imposing their religious views on everyone else.

so basically... they want to force women to have children they don't want, and keep women from having children they do.....

because .... Jesus.

Great job completely missing the entire point of my post based on the example given there dear. You've completely proven my point perfectly in the process though: you have /zero/ interest in even /trying/ to see the "other side" of the argument because /you/ think you /know/ better. Same shit, different side of the coin.

thanks for proving my point about how anti-choice men have no respect for women ..... dear.

I don't have to see the "other side" because my beliefs don't keep them from making THEIR OWN CHOICES.

I'm a woman and I'm pro-choice, however, the entire point of my example, my entire post, was that people are UNABLE (or unwilling) to see the other side.

YOU are bitching about women's choice, calling it disrespect for women - you're fucking biased woman, its actually about respect for children and life. You are /unable/ to see their side of the coin and instead of taking a step back to see how THEY see it (KILLING FUCKING CHILDREN) you chose to say they hate women - YOU are part of the problem.

you know what I've learned about those people? they couldn't care less about what we think. they can believe what they want. they can't impose their beliefs on others. 80% of them are male and it is about exercising dominance over women. they care nothing about life.... if they did, they'd make sure that mothers and babies had adequate resources.

my assumption when you patronized me with "dear", that you were male.

again, nothing others do is there business. these are personal, personal decisions.

Again, you miss the forest for the trees. Stop talking about abortion and understand that my entire point was that no one can see things from the other side's perspective.

Please knock it off you're making us chicks look like idiotic broken records...