Left wingers...regarding Orlando tragedy....you have a tough choice to make

[BlindBoo]

No one sides with terrorists.

Progressives...

No

Obama could be a prophet of Islam?

Yawn. Nope.

 

[candycorn]

Sad that some have to invoke racism.
Switzerland is the textbook example of a well-regulated militia. Are you willing to enact the exact same rules Switzerland has on US citizens?

If admitting facts is racism, then everyone better be racist.


My point was that Swizerland has assault rifles... a lot of them. What they lack is muslims, they were smart enough not to participate in the European migration(destruction) programs.

I’ll just let you be a racist.
Switzerland has very tight controls on the weapons and ammunition. Again, they are the textbook of a “well regulated” militia. If you’re okay with such rules… (from Wikipedia)

Acquisition[edit]
Buying guns[edit]
In order to purchase most weapons, the purchaser must obtain a weapon acquisition permit (Art. 8 WG). Swiss citizens and foreigners with a C permit over the age of 18 who are not psychiatrically disqualified nor identified as posing security problems, and who have a clean criminal record can request such a permit. Foreigners with the following citizenship are explicitly excluded from the right to possess weapons: Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Algeria and Albania (Art. 12, WV). The following information must be provided to the cantonal weapon bureau together with the weapon application form:

• valid official identification or passport copy
• residence address
• criminal record copy not older than 3 months

For each transfer of a weapon or an essential weapon component without weapons acquisition permit (Art. 10 WG), a written contract must be concluded. Each Party shall keep them at least ten years. The contract must include the following information (Art. 11 WG):

• Family name, first name, birth date, residence address and signature of the person who sells the weapon or essential weapon component
• Family name, first name, birth date, residence address and signature of the person who purchases the weapon or an essential weapon component
• Kind of weapon, manufacturer or producer, label, caliber, weapon number, and date and place of transfer;
• Type and number of official identification of the person who acquires the weapon or the essential weapon component
• and an indication of the processing of personal data in connection with the contract in accordance with the privacy policy of the Federation or the cantons, if firearms are transmitted.

This information must be sent within 30 days to the cantonal weapon registration bureau, where the weapon holders are registered (Art. 9 WG).

Some weapons do not need a weapon acquisition permit (Art. 10 WG):

• Single-shot and multi-barreled hunting rifles and replicas of single-shot muzzle
• By the Federal Council designated hand bolt-action rifles, which are commonly used in off-duty and sporting gunnery recognized by the military law of 3 February 1952 and shooting clubs for hunting purposes in Switzerland
• Single-shot rabbit slayer;
• Compressed air and CO2 weapons that develop a muzzle energy of at least 7.5 joules, or may be confused because of their appearance with real firearms

Buying Ammunition[edit]

Ready ammunition of the Swiss Army. Soldiers equipped with the Sig 550 assault rifle used to be issued 50 rounds of ammunition in a sealed can, to be opened only upon alert and for use while en route to join their unit. This practice was stopped in 2007.[10]
In order to purchase ammunition the buyer must follow the same legal rules that apply to buying guns. The buyer can only buy munition for guns that he/she legally owns and must provide the following information to the seller (Art. 15, 16 WG; Art 24 WV):[8][9]

• valid official identification or passport (and must be older than 18 and who are not psychiatrically disqualified nor identified as posing security problems, and must not be a citizen of the following countries (Art. 12 WV): Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Algeria and Albania)
• residence address
• criminal record copy not older than 3 months
• weapon acquisition permit not older than 2 years, or a weapon carrying permit not older than 5 years

This also applies for weapons which do not require a weapon acquisition permit (see above, excluding the weapon acquisition permit, of course).

This information must be sent within 30 days to the cantonal weapon registration bureau, where the weapon holder is registered.

The same applies to black powder and modern black powder substitutes for use in firing historical rifles.


A Swiss 100 gram black powder container.
The possession of the following munition is generally prohibited:

• Ammunition with armor-piercing bullets
• Ammunition with projectiles containing an explosive or incendiary device
• Ammunition with one or more floors to the release of substances which damage the health of people in the long run
• Ammunition, missiles and missile launchers for military explosive
• Ammunition with projectiles for transmitting electric shocks
• Ammunition for handguns with deformation effect

Carrying guns[edit]
To carry a loaded firearm in public or outdoors (and for an individual who is a member of the militia carrying a firearm other than his Army-issue personal weapons off-duty), a person must have a Waffentragbewilligung (gun carrying permit), which in most cases is issued only to private citizens working in occupations such as security.[8] It is, however, quite common to see a person serving military service to be en route with his rifle, albeit unloaded.[11]

Conditions for getting a Carrying Permit[edit]
There are three conditions:

• fulfilling the conditions for a buying permit (see section above)
• stating plausibly the need to carry firearms to protect oneself, other people, or real property from a specified danger
• passing an examination proving both weapon handling skills and knowledge regarding lawful use of the weapon

The carrying permit remains valid for a term of five years (unless otherwise surrendered or revoked), and applies only to the type of firearm for which the permit was issued. Additional constraints may be invoked to modify any specific permit. Neither hunters nor game wardens require a carrying permit.[citation needed]

—-

Go for it.

 

[Nosmo King]

And there are Christian extremists who want to kill people they think are sinners. That does not make all Christians complicit.

I don't currently see an organized Christian group blowing themselves up all over random countries and gunning people down in the streets.

Your clumsy, ham handed stabs at scoring cheap political points in the face of this tragedy is both shameful and stupid. If everything is screened through a political template, it cheapens the tragedy and explains your personal frustration. You act petulantly because no everyone falls behind your stupid political outlook. Therefore you see everything as a political act. That gives you license to abandon responsibility and ease in placing blame for the things you ultimately fail to understand.

And you act as though you know random people over the internet, while having never met them, and seem to think there's no organized Islamic threat. It's neat that you know so many seldom-used words, but using them to fluff your post doesn't enforce any points you could have had.

My first poi8nt was meant to show that violence is violence. Assigning a strictly 'religious' label to violence is not proper as some violence is champi9oned by some allegedly religious people. That does not mean that acts of terror are sanctioned, ordered, or inspired by faith. Rather, those sanctioning, ordering and inspiring violence are not strict adherents of faith, but using faith as a veneer of worthiness.

And I'm so sorry that vocabulary intimidates you so. I happen to be one of the kids who paid attention is school.

 

[Yarddog]

Right wingers.....especially on this forum......Your choice is both simple and a tough one to make.

Either you continue to adamantly support Islam....Ideology whose main purpose is to kill as many gay people as possible in the shortest amount of time...........OR

You employ some sanity and abandon this moronic notion that NO regressive ideology should be criticized so that you can "idealize' some stupid scenario that you must defend yourself from oppressive white males......

If you have a conscience (and since most of you call yourselves "Tolerant") you have a choice to make....Be tacitly complicit in mass murders....or change your attitude toward the acceptance of such ideology.

Your's is a ridiculous premise. Let's walk through this slowly.
The ideology of Islam is not to kill as many Gay people as possible.

Second, the implication that anyone who can differentiate between radically inspired terrorists and the greater Muslim community is tacitly complicit in terror attacks is specious, stupid logic.

So, as a Liberal who supports the rights of all Americans and can understand that Islam is a faith that does not require the deaths of people who are different I reject your flimsy premise.

Of course thats not the Ideology of Islam, if you go to Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. they will tell you Gays do not exist in their society. oh yes forgot Iran too. Maybe your refering to the US population of Muslims? yes, they are more tolerant but a very tiny percentage of Muslims world wide.

But isn't that state sanctioned and not part and parcel of Islamic literary?

Politics, when melded with religion corrupts that religion.

Which is more important? as a scholar interpreting the Koran you may be correct, but how is the subjugation and killing of LGBTs practiced throughout Islamic society as a whole? their actions are all based on their belief in obeying the Koran, so rightly or wrongly interpreted its not even the point.

 

[Nosmo King]

Right wingers.....especially on this forum......Your choice is both simple and a tough one to make.

Either you continue to adamantly support Islam....Ideology whose main purpose is to kill as many gay people as possible in the shortest amount of time...........OR

You employ some sanity and abandon this moronic notion that NO regressive ideology should be criticized so that you can "idealize' some stupid scenario that you must defend yourself from oppressive white males......

If you have a conscience (and since most of you call yourselves "Tolerant") you have a choice to make....Be tacitly complicit in mass murders....or change your attitude toward the acceptance of such ideology.

Your's is a ridiculous premise. Let's walk through this slowly.
The ideology of Islam is not to kill as many Gay people as possible.

Second, the implication that anyone who can differentiate between radically inspired terrorists and the greater Muslim community is tacitly complicit in terror attacks is specious, stupid logic.

So, as a Liberal who supports the rights of all Americans and can understand that Islam is a faith that does not require the deaths of people who are different I reject your flimsy premise.

Of course thats not the Ideology of Islam, if you go to Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. they will tell you Gays do not exist in their society. oh yes forgot Iran too. Maybe your refering to the US population of Muslims? yes, they are more tolerant but a very tiny percentage of Muslims world wide.

But isn't that state sanctioned and not part and parcel of Islamic literary?

Politics, when melded with religion corrupts that religion.

Which is more important? as a scholar interpreting the Koran you may be correct, but how is the subjugation and killing of LGBTs practiced throughout Islamic society as a whole? their actions are all based on their belief in obeying the Koran, so rightly or wrongly interpreted its not even the point.

It is an exter

Right wingers.....especially on this forum......Your choice is both simple and a tough one to make.

Either you continue to adamantly support Islam....Ideology whose main purpose is to kill as many gay people as possible in the shortest amount of time...........OR

You employ some sanity and abandon this moronic notion that NO regressive ideology should be criticized so that you can "idealize' some stupid scenario that you must defend yourself from oppressive white males......

If you have a conscience (and since most of you call yourselves "Tolerant") you have a choice to make....Be tacitly complicit in mass murders....or change your attitude toward the acceptance of such ideology.

Your's is a ridiculous premise. Let's walk through this slowly.
The ideology of Islam is not to kill as many Gay people as possible.

Second, the implication that anyone who can differentiate between radically inspired terrorists and the greater Muslim community is tacitly complicit in terror attacks is specious, stupid logic.

So, as a Liberal who supports the rights of all Americans and can understand that Islam is a faith that does not require the deaths of people who are different I reject your flimsy premise.

Of course thats not the Ideology of Islam, if you go to Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. they will tell you Gays do not exist in their society. oh yes forgot Iran too. Maybe your refering to the US population of Muslims? yes, they are more tolerant but a very tiny percentage of Muslims world wide.

But isn't that state sanctioned and not part and parcel of Islamic literary?

Politics, when melded with religion corrupts that religion.

Which is more important? as a scholar interpreting the Koran you may be correct, but how is the subjugation and killing of LGBTs practiced throughout Islamic society as a whole? their actions are all based on their belief in obeying the Koran, so rightly or wrongly interpreted its not even the point.

You're right. It is wrong and criminal to kill homosexuals because of a mis-guided interpretation of the Koran.

Just as it's wrong to mis-interpret Biblical passages to believe that it's right to avoid commerce with homosexuals.

Fundamentalists of every stripe contort their scriptures to justify hatred.

 

[Norman]

Sad that some have to invoke racism.
Switzerland is the textbook example of a well-regulated militia. Are you willing to enact the exact same rules Switzerland has on US citizens?

If admitting facts is racism, then everyone better be racist.


My point was that Swizerland has assault rifles... a lot of them. What they lack is muslims, they were smart enough not to participate in the European migration(destruction) programs.

I’ll just let you be a racist.
Switzerland has very tight controls on the weapons and ammunition. Again, they are the textbook of a “well regulated” militia. If you’re okay with such rules… (from Wikipedia)

Acquisition[edit]
Buying guns[edit]
In order to purchase most weapons, the purchaser must obtain a weapon acquisition permit (Art. 8 WG). Swiss citizens and foreigners with a C permit over the age of 18 who are not psychiatrically disqualified nor identified as posing security problems, and who have a clean criminal record can request such a permit. Foreigners with the following citizenship are explicitly excluded from the right to possess weapons: Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Algeria and Albania (Art. 12, WV). The following information must be provided to the cantonal weapon bureau together with the weapon application form:

• valid official identification or passport copy
• residence address
• criminal record copy not older than 3 months

For each transfer of a weapon or an essential weapon component without weapons acquisition permit (Art. 10 WG), a written contract must be concluded. Each Party shall keep them at least ten years. The contract must include the following information (Art. 11 WG):

• Family name, first name, birth date, residence address and signature of the person who sells the weapon or essential weapon component
• Family name, first name, birth date, residence address and signature of the person who purchases the weapon or an essential weapon component
• Kind of weapon, manufacturer or producer, label, caliber, weapon number, and date and place of transfer;
• Type and number of official identification of the person who acquires the weapon or the essential weapon component
• and an indication of the processing of personal data in connection with the contract in accordance with the privacy policy of the Federation or the cantons, if firearms are transmitted.

This information must be sent within 30 days to the cantonal weapon registration bureau, where the weapon holders are registered (Art. 9 WG).

Some weapons do not need a weapon acquisition permit (Art. 10 WG):

• Single-shot and multi-barreled hunting rifles and replicas of single-shot muzzle
• By the Federal Council designated hand bolt-action rifles, which are commonly used in off-duty and sporting gunnery recognized by the military law of 3 February 1952 and shooting clubs for hunting purposes in Switzerland
• Single-shot rabbit slayer;
• Compressed air and CO2 weapons that develop a muzzle energy of at least 7.5 joules, or may be confused because of their appearance with real firearms

Buying Ammunition[edit]

Ready ammunition of the Swiss Army. Soldiers equipped with the Sig 550 assault rifle used to be issued 50 rounds of ammunition in a sealed can, to be opened only upon alert and for use while en route to join their unit. This practice was stopped in 2007.[10]
In order to purchase ammunition the buyer must follow the same legal rules that apply to buying guns. The buyer can only buy munition for guns that he/she legally owns and must provide the following information to the seller (Art. 15, 16 WG; Art 24 WV):[8][9]

• valid official identification or passport (and must be older than 18 and who are not psychiatrically disqualified nor identified as posing security problems, and must not be a citizen of the following countries (Art. 12 WV): Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Turkey, Sri Lanka, Algeria and Albania)
• residence address
• criminal record copy not older than 3 months
• weapon acquisition permit not older than 2 years, or a weapon carrying permit not older than 5 years

This also applies for weapons which do not require a weapon acquisition permit (see above, excluding the weapon acquisition permit, of course).

This information must be sent within 30 days to the cantonal weapon registration bureau, where the weapon holder is registered.

The same applies to black powder and modern black powder substitutes for use in firing historical rifles.


A Swiss 100 gram black powder container.
The possession of the following munition is generally prohibited:

• Ammunition with armor-piercing bullets
• Ammunition with projectiles containing an explosive or incendiary device
• Ammunition with one or more floors to the release of substances which damage the health of people in the long run
• Ammunition, missiles and missile launchers for military explosive
• Ammunition with projectiles for transmitting electric shocks
• Ammunition for handguns with deformation effect

Carrying guns[edit]
To carry a loaded firearm in public or outdoors (and for an individual who is a member of the militia carrying a firearm other than his Army-issue personal weapons off-duty), a person must have a Waffentragbewilligung (gun carrying permit), which in most cases is issued only to private citizens working in occupations such as security.[8] It is, however, quite common to see a person serving military service to be en route with his rifle, albeit unloaded.[11]

Conditions for getting a Carrying Permit[edit]
There are three conditions:

• fulfilling the conditions for a buying permit (see section above)
• stating plausibly the need to carry firearms to protect oneself, other people, or real property from a specified danger
• passing an examination proving both weapon handling skills and knowledge regarding lawful use of the weapon

The carrying permit remains valid for a term of five years (unless otherwise surrendered or revoked), and applies only to the type of firearm for which the permit was issued. Additional constraints may be invoked to modify any specific permit. Neither hunters nor game wardens require a carrying permit.[citation needed]

—-

Go for it.

And this somehow debunks the fact that they have a lot of guns?

Okay...

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Other nations have very strict gun laws and their citizenry is largely gun free
They do not have the number of bloodbaths we have

Perhaps, but you can't always equate that with the amount of guns. We are a multi-culuture country where some cultures are much more violent than others. Many other countries are one or two different kinds of people.

You can't stop that violence by removing guns from good people. You people on the left don't care about reducing violence and criminal activity, you care about control.

The only way to reduce crime and violence is with a proper deterrent. So if you really want to reduce the problems, write to your legislature and tell them you want to see a fast-track for capital punishment cases. If a murderer is found guilty, then have all appeals exhausted in less than four months instead of the 8 to 15 years it takes now. Want to reduce murders even more? Ask your legislature to have the execution on television; perhaps pay-per-view.

That's how you will reduce murders in this country while not even getting close to violating the US Constitution. That way everybody is happy except the criminals.

 

[candycorn]

Other nations have very strict gun laws and their citizenry is largely gun free
They do not have the number of bloodbaths we have

Perhaps, but you can't always equate that with the amount of guns. We are a multi-culuture country where some cultures are much more violent than others. Many other countries are one or two different kinds of people.

You can't stop that violence by removing guns from good people. You people on the left don't care about reducing violence and criminal activity, you care about control.

The only way to reduce crime and violence is with a proper deterrent. So if you really want to reduce the problems, write to your legislature and tell them you want to see a fast-track for capital punishment cases. If a murderer is found guilty, then have all appeals exhausted in less than four months instead of the 8 to 15 years it takes now. Want to reduce murders even more? Ask your legislature to have the execution on television; perhaps pay-per-view.

That's how you will reduce murders in this country while not even getting close to violating the US Constitution. That way everybody is happy except the criminals.

As every right wing nut job on this board points out daily, someone was murdered in Chicago today. I’m not sure why it is done….I know Obama is from there, that Emmanuel is the current mayor, that they have city gun control laws and that gives you guys some sick satisfaction. Whatever. One of your idiots even said “about 100 people die every day from shootings in Chicago”. The actual number of murders in Chicago is an abysmal 278 for the entire year.

Tough Choice For Homosexuals

Why would a guy in Chicago be worried about lethal injection if he lives in constant danger of getting killed already?

Glad to see that it’s dawning on you that the Constitution is keeping us from enacting gun laws though. You may be on to something.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

As every right wing nut job on this board points out daily, someone was murdered in Chicago today. I’m not sure why it is done….I know Obama is from there, that Emmanuel is the current mayor, that they have city gun control laws and that gives you guys some sick satisfaction. Whatever. One of your idiots even said “about 100 people die every day from shootings in Chicago”. The actual number of murders in Chicago is an abysmal 278 for the entire year.

Tough Choice For Homosexuals

Why would a guy in Chicago be worried about lethal injection if he lives in constant danger of getting killed already?

Glad to see that it’s dawning on you that the Constitution is keeping us from enacting gun laws though. You may be on to something.

I've said it repeatedly. It is our Constitution that gives us our rights to bear arms. It's also why I warn people here that if Hillary is elected, that right may be in jeopardy if she loads the court with a bunch of Commie leftists that share her hatred of people being able to defend themselves.

I can't speak nor defend what anybody else said about Chicago. And you're correct, a cold blooded killer is not worried about the death penalty in Chicago as in most places because it takes so long to administer. That's the point. I want to see the death penalty as a deterrent and a sentence that will give the surviving family some peace. Are you worried about what might happen to you 15 years from today? Well.......most people aren't either. That's why the death penalty is currently not a deterrent. A person is more likely to die in prison before being hooked up to the needle.

 

[candycorn]

As every right wing nut job on this board points out daily, someone was murdered in Chicago today. I’m not sure why it is done….I know Obama is from there, that Emmanuel is the current mayor, that they have city gun control laws and that gives you guys some sick satisfaction. Whatever. One of your idiots even said “about 100 people die every day from shootings in Chicago”. The actual number of murders in Chicago is an abysmal 278 for the entire year.

Tough Choice For Homosexuals

Why would a guy in Chicago be worried about lethal injection if he lives in constant danger of getting killed already?

Glad to see that it’s dawning on you that the Constitution is keeping us from enacting gun laws though. You may be on to something.

I've said it repeatedly. It is our Constitution that gives us our rights to bear arms. It's also why I warn people here that if Hillary is elected, that right may be in jeopardy if she loads the court with a bunch of Commie leftists that share her hatred of people being able to defend themselves.

I can't speak nor defend what anybody else said about Chicago. And you're correct, a cold blooded killer is not worried about the death penalty in Chicago as in most places because it takes so long to administer. That's the point. I want to see the death penalty as a deterrent and a sentence that will give the surviving family some peace. Are you worried about what might happen to you 15 years from today? Well.......most people aren't either. That's why the death penalty is currently not a deterrent. A person is more likely to die in prison before being hooked up to the needle.

FWIW:

I think we should make all crimes where a gun is involved federal crimes. You say you have a gun and use the threat during a crime; boom gun crime. You show the gun during a crim; boom gun crime. Certainly if you use the gun; gun crime. Minimum sentence; 10 years. Next time around 30. Or whatever. No pardon. No parole. No time off for good behaivor. We have endless money to fight wars in every 3rd world shit hole; surely we can take some of that money and a state like Texas that nobody ever uses and shove 15-20 prisons out there in the boonies.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

FWIW:

I think we should make all crimes where a gun is involved federal crimes. You say you have a gun and use the threat during a crime; boom gun crime. You show the gun during a crim; boom gun crime. Certainly if you use the gun; gun crime. Minimum sentence; 10 years. Next time around 30. Or whatever. No pardon. No parole. No time off for good behaivor. We have endless money to fight wars in every 3rd world shit hole; surely we can take some of that money and a state like Texas that nobody ever uses and shove 15-20 prisons out there in the boonies.

I agree with you 100%. Furthermore, I think that since many of these criminals get their guns through straw purchases, the person buying the gun for the criminal should be held to higher criminal charges than the person that committed the crime.

According to the FBI, most of the guns criminals get are through straw purchases.