Landlords and Political Yard Signs

[RetiredGySgt]

How petty. Come on. Show some class. It is Jesus and Allah.

Jesus is the SON of God, Jehovah is God. And no the trinity are not all really just one thing.

 

[CA95380]

This probably could have been put in Ethics as well, but whatever.

My neighbors have the same landlord as we do. They're Obama supporters, and they have an Obama yard sign put up in their section of the yard that we both actually share (the yard, not the sign). Apparently, the landlord wants them to take down the sign because he's a Republican, and he doesn't want to "have to keep looking at it" when he comes around.

Now, I realize that it's actually his property and they are just renting, but I'm wondering how much of a leg he has to stand on in this situation. This same landlord allowed me to repaint our entire unit with custom colors, he allowed me to replace the kitchen countertop when we moved in, and took it off the rent, and it was at our request, not something he was originally going to do. He also allowed me to till a big section of the backyard grass to plant a vegetable garden. There are a lot of things he allowed us to do, basically.

What I'm wondering is, how much of a right does he really have to tell them to take down the sign, in light of the fact that he's allowed so much alteration of the property otherwise. He doesn't have to look at the sign. He's letting his personal feelings come between fair use and, perhaps, tenant rights.

I'd have to read the lease again to see if it mentions political advertisements, but I really don't remember seeing it when we signed ours. Not that it would matter much I suppose, had they placed a McCain sign out instead.

What are your thoughts?

I was wondering whatever happened with this problem? Can we get an update?

In the mean time - I think I have found a sign for our yard!

Works for me!

 

[Paulie]

Been a crazy couple weeks for me and haven't had an opportunity to straighten this issue out until just recently, but here's an update on this situation.

So, in our lease it mentions nothing specifically about political signs. It does mention certain things not being allowed in the yard, although a few of those things exist which the landlord hasn't taken unkindly to...one being furniture. Not only is there yard furniture, theres a gazebo, a vegetable garden he let us make, a bunch of kiddie play-toys, etc.

So I'm wondering now, how if there are already unallowed items being allowed in the yard, that he has a right to tell us we can't put something up that isn't even MENTIONED in the lease.

I care a lot less now than I did when it first happened, but the obvious answer is he just doesn't like Obama and doesn't want his property being associated with him. Not a good enough reason as far as I'm concerned, let alone a legal one. But whatever.

 

[Silence]

I think it's his property and he has the final say.

actually unless it's specified in the lease that they are to get prior approval to display political support signs he can't make them remove it....just like he can't just walk into their house without notification unless he feels they are in danger. While they reside at the home and while they are in compliance with the specifications of the lease agreement his control is limited. If he continues to harrass them I believe they could actually sue him for infringement on their rights.

This could vary state to state but the landlord only has control over the "property" if you are in default on your rent and he is trying to evict you and even then he's limited in what he can do outside a court order.

That said, this landlord sounds like a real asshole and it speaks to how ridiculous some republicans can be in trying to FORCE people to agree with them.

 

[Anguille]

actually unless it's specified in the lease that they are to get prior approval to display political support signs he can't make them remove it....just like he can't just walk into their house without notification unless he feels they are in danger. While they reside at the home and while they are in compliance with the specifications of the lease agreement his control is limited. If he continues to harrass them I believe they could actually sue him for infringement on their rights.

This could vary state to state but the landlord only has control over the "property" if you are in default on your rent and he is trying to evict you and even then he's limited in what he can do outside a court order.

That said, this landlord sounds like a real asshole and it speaks to how ridiculous some republicans can be in trying to FORCE people to agree with them.

It may also depend on what the lease says he is renting, specifically. If it does not include the outdoor areas or they are not considered common areas, he may not have the right to post signs there. However, I think he is within all his rights to post a sign on the inside of a window of his unit.

 

[Silence]

if the renter is responsible for upkeep of the yard, one would assume he/she is leasing the yard. And how exactly do you lease a house but not the yard? LOL...

This landlord is overstepping his bounds and he could find himself in court if he's not careful.

Now if the ajoining tenant, who appears to be Paulatics, had an issue with the sign, I could see the landloard asking that it be removed for that reason.

 

[Anguille]

I can't remember if he said he's renting an entire house or a unit on the property.

 

[Paulie]

It may also depend on what the lease says he is renting, specifically. If it does not include the outdoor areas or they are not considered common areas, he may not have the right to post signs there. However, I think he is within all his rights to post a sign on the inside of a window of his unit.

The lease doesn't get that specific. It basically has bullet points. It's very vague about what is allowed on the property, and doesn't specifically mention "no political signs".

I'd say you have ONE opportunity as a landlord to lay down the law, and that's in your lease content. Beyond that, if you leave something out, you're beat.

I think where the problem lies, is creating friction between you and the landlord. I like this house and so do our neighbors who were told to take down the sign, and I'd personally like to get one more year of lease as we are in the process of saving for a house and probably won't be ready until 2010.

I've moved a lot in the past couple years and I'm tired of it. I'm only willing to do it ONE MORE TIME, into a mortgaged house that I will OWN. So I'd personally rather not put a sour taste in my landlord's mouth. (que manifold)

This all being said, I'm convinced the landlord has no leg to stand on with this issue. He lost out by not including it as a stipulation in the lease.

 

[Paulie]

if the renter is responsible for upkeep of the yard, one would assume he/she is leasing the yard. And how exactly do you lease a house but not the yard? LOL...

This landlord is overstepping his bounds and he could find himself in court if he's not careful.

Now if the ajoining tenant, who appears to be Paulatics, had an issue with the sign, I could see the landloard asking that it be removed for that reason.

Yes, I'm the ajoining tenant in this house. I'm not an Obama supporter, but I really don't care what sign my neighbors put out. Who am I to tell them they can't express their view?

 

[Anguille]

The lease doesn't get that specific. It basically has bullet points. It's very vague about what is allowed on the property, and doesn't specifically mention "no political signs".

I'd say you have ONE opportunity as a landlord to lay down the law, and that's in your lease content. Beyond that, if you leave something out, you're beat.

I think where the problem lies, is creating friction between you and the landlord. I like this house and so do our neighbors who were told to take down the sign, and I'd personally like to get one more year of lease as we are in the process of saving for a house and probably won't be ready until 2010.

I've moved a lot in the past couple years and I'm tired of it. I'm only willing to do it ONE MORE TIME, into a mortgaged house that I will OWN. So I'd personally rather not put a sour taste in my landlord's mouth. (que manifold)

This all being said, I'm convinced the landlord has no leg to stand on with this issue. He lost out by not including it as a stipulation in the lease.

Sounds like you are in the right but I can understand not wanting to get in a beef with your landlord over the issue. Too bad he's so territorial.

 

[Silence]

then, if you, as the joint tenant of the property and mutal user of the yard have not expressed concern over the sign (ie you feel it infringes on your rights to either remain impartial or you feel it expresses views you don't believe in and fear that someone may take this as YOUR endorsement) then he's out of luck. He's also out of luck if he didn't stipulate to this rule in the lease.

The fact that he has made it clear that this is a personal issue for him and centers around him not wanting to "look at the sign" when he comes around pretty much puts it into the area of infringement on their civil rights. They could most assuredly contact a civil rights attorney and make waves. This would be perfect for someone to pick up and run with too...make a great human interest story.

 

[Paulie]

then, if you, as the joint tenant of the property and mutal user of the yard have not expressed concern over the sign (ie you feel it infringes on your rights to either remain impartial or you feel it expresses views you don't believe in and fear that someone may take this as YOUR endorsement) then he's out of luck. He's also out of luck if he didn't stipulate to this rule in the lease.

The fact that he has made it clear that this is a personal issue for him and centers around him not wanting to "look at the sign" when he comes around pretty much puts it into the area of infringement on their civil rights. They could most assuredly contact a civil rights attorney and make waves. This would be perfect for someone to pick up and run with too...make a great human interest story.

I agree. I'm not sure if the neighbors would be as willing to pursue the issue as I might be if it was me and I didn't care about re-upping my lease another year, though. In fact, they took the sign down like good little bitches without question, so maybe they feel the same way as I do about continuing the lease.

If it was me, and I really wanted to be a dick, I'd ask for an early renewal of the lease for another year, and THEN pursue the sign issue.

Because I'm pretty sure at the end of the lease he is free to either renew us or not, at his discretion.

He's not the worst landlord in the world, otherwise. We always pay on time, so he seems to care a little more about our grievances, as few as they have been. I hear he's a slumlord though. He owns a lot of rental property, and from my experiences, landlords who own a lot of rental property are the worst kind because they'd rather not deal with the expense of all the upkeep. And they know that most tenants are going to take it in the ass for probably the same reason that I'm saying that I personally would.

Luckily I'm pretty handy with multiple labor trades, and I can fix just about anything that goes wrong. I'm not about nickel and diming the guy to death. We seem to have earned credibility in his eyes because of that and the on-time payments.

I'm basically using the guy for a roof over my head until I don't need him anymore, and he's using us for his income. It works out perfectly.

 

[KGB]

This probably could have been put in Ethics as well, but whatever.

My neighbors have the same landlord as we do. They're Obama supporters, and they have an Obama yard sign put up in their section of the yard that we both actually share (the yard, not the sign). Apparently, the landlord wants them to take down the sign because he's a Republican, and he doesn't want to "have to keep looking at it" when he comes around.

Now, I realize that it's actually his property and they are just renting, but I'm wondering how much of a leg he has to stand on in this situation. This same landlord allowed me to repaint our entire unit with custom colors, he allowed me to replace the kitchen countertop when we moved in, and took it off the rent, and it was at our request, not something he was originally going to do. He also allowed me to till a big section of the backyard grass to plant a vegetable garden. There are a lot of things he allowed us to do, basically.

What I'm wondering is, how much of a right does he really have to tell them to take down the sign, in light of the fact that he's allowed so much alteration of the property otherwise. He doesn't have to look at the sign. He's letting his personal feelings come between fair use and, perhaps, tenant rights.

I'd have to read the lease again to see if it mentions political advertisements, but I really don't remember seeing it when we signed ours. Not that it would matter much I suppose, had they placed a McCain sign out instead.

What are your thoughts?

if he has the standard clause in the rental agreement about requiring permission to alter the outside, he can tell them to take it down...however, as a businessman, he should just let it pass......what does he want more.....a good tenant or a pissed off one....it just isn't worth it economically.....

 

[KGB]

then, if you, as the joint tenant of the property and mutal user of the yard have not expressed concern over the sign (ie you feel it infringes on your rights to either remain impartial or you feel it expresses views you don't believe in and fear that someone may take this as YOUR endorsement) then he's out of luck. He's also out of luck if he didn't stipulate to this rule in the lease.

The fact that he has made it clear that this is a personal issue for him and centers around him not wanting to "look at the sign" when he comes around pretty much puts it into the area of infringement on their civil rights. They could most assuredly contact a civil rights attorney and make waves. This would be perfect for someone to pick up and run with too...make a great human interest story.

not really....most rental agreements have standard clauses in them about altering the outside.....hanging a sign could fall underneath this....

 

[Skull Pilot]

not really....most rental agreements have standard clauses in them about altering the outside.....hanging a sign could fall underneath this....

there is no civil rights violation here at all. No one has the right to put a sign on someone else's property. The renter in this case does not own the property therefore he has no right to put anything on the landlord's property without his express permission. the renter can hang his sign on the inside of his front window if he wants but he cannot place it on the lawn because he has no right.

 

[Care4all]

there is no civil rights violation here at all. No one has the right to put a sign on someone else's property. The renter in this case does not own the property therefore he has no right to put anything on the landlord's property without his express permission. the renter can hang his sign on the inside of his front window if he wants but he cannot place it on the lawn because he has no right.

Why do you say that? simply not true. A renter rents the yard and the house.... and UNLESS the landlord made specific mention to this in the lease, the renter can put up the sign of a politician in the yard that they are leasing, if there is no community rules/laws against doing such....is my understanding of tenent/landlord laws....

When we lease our land to oil companies, can we tell them they can have no signs listing their company name on the rig? No we can't, unless such was writen in to the lease.

There was nothing in this lease that stated specifically that putting up a politician's sign was not permitted, thus the tenants can do such....just like putting up a sign for your 10 year old selling lemonade...unless there is a community rule or specific mention in the lease against such, it is A-ok?

Care