LA City Council Votes To Ban Marijuana Shops...

[Katzndogz]

Buddy, I'm a major supporter of States Rights. But I think any issue requires dialogue from both the Feds and the States. This is clearly an issue with our outdated, over-funded and frankly zealous War on Drugs. In this day and age, 2012, there is no reason pot should not be treated the exact same as booze or tobacco.

Well said. You're getting there. Good to see you supporting States-Rights. I have to admit, i'm pretty surprised. Kudos.

Ha. There are plenty of Libs like me who believe in States Rights. The only time I really want the Feds over-stepping into the States' territory is on civil rights issues, and where states are clearly breaking the U.S. Constitution in their regulations. So for me, same-sex marriage and abortion laws that restrict women's access to safe abortions are Federal issues because they deal with discrimination. To me, it IS discrimination to tell a man he can do whatever he wants with his dick but women have to have a special code of laws for their vaginae.

But the case of drugs is one that any thinking person could see the war on them as being as wasteful as the "war on terror." Too many fucking "wars" and not enough resolution and compromise. That cannibal in Florida? There is no fucking chance in Hell the marijuana in his system is what caused him to snap. More news will come out of his mental stability issues, I'm sure of it.

Pot is pot. It's less harmful for your body than either of the legal vices in this country. It's not physically addicted, and science is showing it doesn't kill brain cells. I'm a REGULAR pot smoker and my mental faculties aren't deteriorating. In fact, I know a shit-ton of engineers who smoke pot too. It's just a mind-altering substance, like booze, but without all that wife-beating and DUI shit.

Oh, and to pretend that we don't have a LEGAL drug problem in this country is also hypocritical of us. We're pumping our kids full of speed and old people are taking pills that give them four hour boners...but yeah, pot is EVIL!!!!!

The Feds didn't overstep on state's rights. When marijuana was legalized 18 years ago, the state left a loophole. A city, any city, reserved the right to decide not to give a business license to a pot dispensary, or to withdraw a business license within that city, if it was later determined that that particular city suffered ill effects from the existence of a dispensary.

Last year an investigation determined that some of the dispensaries were actually owned and operated by the cartels or at least organized crime syndicates. They were dispensing not only pot, but other drugs and weapons. Last year, the city of Los Angeles closed over 400 dispensaries. Now the people of Los Angeles have had enough and demanded that the business licenses be withdrawn. That's what happened. No federal action. Not even state action.

 

[Katzndogz]

California has lived with legalized pot for 18 years, long enough to conclude that legalization doesn't work.

Medical Marijuana is not "Legalization". You could say Marijuana is "decriminalized" but it's not legal.

And it probably won't be made legal any time soon, it's about 10% of Mexico's Economy plus US Banks make huge profits laundering all that drug money.

After people have lived with legalized marijuana for awhile, they invariably criminalize it so, you're right. It won't be legal any time soon. After all, the voters had an opportunity for full legalization and regulation like tobacco or alcohol and soundly rejected it.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Well said. You're getting there. Good to see you supporting States-Rights. I have to admit, i'm pretty surprised. Kudos.

Ha. There are plenty of Libs like me who believe in States Rights. The only time I really want the Feds over-stepping into the States' territory is on civil rights issues, and where states are clearly breaking the U.S. Constitution in their regulations. So for me, same-sex marriage and abortion laws that restrict women's access to safe abortions are Federal issues because they deal with discrimination. To me, it IS discrimination to tell a man he can do whatever he wants with his dick but women have to have a special code of laws for their vaginae.

But the case of drugs is one that any thinking person could see the war on them as being as wasteful as the "war on terror." Too many fucking "wars" and not enough resolution and compromise. That cannibal in Florida? There is no fucking chance in Hell the marijuana in his system is what caused him to snap. More news will come out of his mental stability issues, I'm sure of it.

Pot is pot. It's less harmful for your body than either of the legal vices in this country. It's not physically addicted, and science is showing it doesn't kill brain cells. I'm a REGULAR pot smoker and my mental faculties aren't deteriorating. In fact, I know a shit-ton of engineers who smoke pot too. It's just a mind-altering substance, like booze, but without all that wife-beating and DUI shit.

Oh, and to pretend that we don't have a LEGAL drug problem in this country is also hypocritical of us. We're pumping our kids full of speed and old people are taking pills that give them four hour boners...but yeah, pot is EVIL!!!!!

The Feds didn't overstep on state's rights. When marijuana was legalized 18 years ago, the state left a loophole. A city, any city, reserved the right to decide not to give a business license to a pot dispensary, or to withdraw a business license within that city, if it was later determined that that particular city suffered ill effects from the existence of a dispensary.

Last year an investigation determined that some of the dispensaries were actually owned and operated by the cartels or at least organized crime syndicates. They were dispensing not only pot, but other drugs and weapons. Last year, the city of Los Angeles closed over 400 dispensaries. Now the people of Los Angeles have had enough and demanded that the business licenses be withdrawn. That's what happened. No federal action. Not even state action.

Bitch, please. This happens to be one of the subjects I'm VERY familiar with. The Obama-led DOJ has in fact been duplicitous on this front, and it's one area I gladly and freely criticize his flip-flopping. When Obama first took office, he told the DOJ to defer to the states, and then he reversed that directive last year.

This vote by the L.A. city council is probably spurred by the increased Federal pressure, and don't forget their mayor is an ardent Obama supporter, so I'm sure some back-channel chatter has been going on there. Of course, I also think ultimately if Obama wins in November he'll make a bold step on the war on drugs, but that's another story.

Anywhore, it sounds like they did the right thing with those bad dispensaries, but I'd sure love to see you post some links to that shit so I can read what the fuck actually happened for myself. But this isn't the citizens of L.A. driving this. This is a few non-pot-friendly people making noise, but if you think for two fucking seconds this doesn't have other machinations behind it, you craycray.

 

[BlindBoo]

Yes it's like Amsterdam! Yes it's easier to get a perscription for weed then it is for pain killers! Yes many many people who have perscriptions smoke weed for recreational use. But I don't see the issue!

They want to systematically shut down 900 businesses across a city that has been devastated by the economy! Pot is becoming CA biggest industry and they should embrace that, not destroy it!

Again you never see a brawl break out in a pot circle! Violence and weed don't go hand and hand.

You would have a hard time selling that argument in Miami after the cannibal attack.

If you buy that here's the original scare story.

What the Narc's were claiming

Then we have the case of a young boy in Florida. The story runs as follows: "A young boy who had become addicted to smoking marihuana cigarettes, in a fit of frenzy because, as he stated while still under the marihuana influence, a number of people were trying to cut off his arms and legs, seized an axe and killed his father, mother, two brothers and a sister, wiping out the entire family except himself." -- Mr. Anslinger 1937 Congressional Testimony

Relation to Crime. Homicides, suicides and assaults, particularly those upon sex, are among the more grave indictments of marihuana. Perhaps the most lurid and frequently repeated case is that of a Florida youth, who, while said to have been under the influence, imagined some people were going to cut off his arms and legs; whereupon, in a frenzy, he seized an ax, killed his father and mother, 2 brothers and a sister. -- American Journal of the Medical Sciences - 1938 pg 351

A teen-age lad awoke in a southern jail and called for his parents. "How do you feel?" an officer asked him. "Wonderful!" the lad exclaimed. "Like a champion! I could lick Joe Louis." After he told the officers about a high school party he attended the night before at which tea was smoked, he heard the story of what happened afterward: "Well, son, after the party, you went home, murdered your father, your mother and your sister with an axe. You set the house afire and when the firemen came you attacked them with an axe. Do you remember that?" No, he couldn't. All he remembered was a terrible dream, in which he had to protect himself from dreadful monsters. -- Fortnight Newsmagazine Aug 20, 1951

Florida. A young man who had become addicted to smoking Marihuana cigarettes, while under the effects of the drug, imagined that a number of people were trying to cut off his arms and legs, seized an axe and killed his father, mother, two brothers and a sister, wiping out the entire family. -- Finger Print & Identification Magazine March 1938 pp3

A 16 year old kills his entire family of five in Florida;---Chicago Tribune Jan 17, 1962 pg 5 -- "Reefers: A Fast Road Downhill" by Harry J. Anslinger; Will Oursler

Murdered parents, sister, two brothers with an ax after smoking marijuana; unaware of actions until next day. -- The Truth about Marijuana -- Stepping Stone To Destruction - June 1967

WHAT WAS ANSLINGER'S GORE FILE

Goofy shit.

 

[MikeK]

California has lived with legalized pot for 18 years, long enough to conclude that legalization doesn't work.

Why doesn't it work? What harm has the limited availability (it has not been "legalized") of marijuana done? The only problem has been the continuation of rigid prohibition throughout the rest of the Nation, causing a focus of availability in one small area.

We are dealing with a negative aspect of Prohibition again. Imagine that beverage alcohol were prohibited again in all but a few areas in California and were available only by prescription.

We know that prohibition doesn't work. The only possible reasons for trying to impose it again are political corruption or general stupidity, or a combination of the two.

 

[MikeK]

Yes it's like Amsterdam! Yes it's easier to get a perscription for weed then it is for pain killers! Yes many many people who have perscriptions smoke weed for recreational use. But I don't see the issue!

They want to systematically shut down 900 businesses across a city that has been devastated by the economy! Pot is becoming CA biggest industry and they should embrace that, not destroy it!

Again you never see a brawl break out in a pot circle! Violence and weed don't go hand and hand.

You would have a hard time selling that argument in Miami after the cannibal attack.

If you buy that here's the original scare story.

What the Narc's were claiming

Then we have the case of a young boy in Florida. The story runs as follows: "A young boy who had become addicted to smoking marihuana cigarettes, in a fit of frenzy because, as he stated while still under the marihuana influence, a number of people were trying to cut off his arms and legs, seized an axe and killed his father, mother, two brothers and a sister, wiping out the entire family except himself." -- Mr. Anslinger 1937 Congressional Testimony

Relation to Crime. Homicides, suicides and assaults, particularly those upon sex, are among the more grave indictments of marihuana. Perhaps the most lurid and frequently repeated case is that of a Florida youth, who, while said to have been under the influence, imagined some people were going to cut off his arms and legs; whereupon, in a frenzy, he seized an ax, killed his father and mother, 2 brothers and a sister. -- American Journal of the Medical Sciences - 1938 pg 351

A teen-age lad awoke in a southern jail and called for his parents. "How do you feel?" an officer asked him. "Wonderful!" the lad exclaimed. "Like a champion! I could lick Joe Louis." After he told the officers about a high school party he attended the night before at which tea was smoked, he heard the story of what happened afterward: "Well, son, after the party, you went home, murdered your father, your mother and your sister with an axe. You set the house afire and when the firemen came you attacked them with an axe. Do you remember that?" No, he couldn't. All he remembered was a terrible dream, in which he had to protect himself from dreadful monsters. -- Fortnight Newsmagazine Aug 20, 1951

Florida. A young man who had become addicted to smoking Marihuana cigarettes, while under the effects of the drug, imagined that a number of people were trying to cut off his arms and legs, seized an axe and killed his father, mother, two brothers and a sister, wiping out the entire family. -- Finger Print & Identification Magazine March 1938 pp3

A 16 year old kills his entire family of five in Florida;---Chicago Tribune Jan 17, 1962 pg 5 -- "Reefers: A Fast Road Downhill" by Harry J. Anslinger; Will Oursler

Murdered parents, sister, two brothers with an ax after smoking marijuana; unaware of actions until next day. -- The Truth about Marijuana -- Stepping Stone To Destruction - June 1967

WHAT WAS ANSLINGER'S GORE FILE

Goofy shit.

The problem is the small percentage of low IQ Reefer Madness adherents who are swayed by such nonsense.

 

[Katzndogz]

I can't believe that marijuana propagandists are still trying the same old tired message.

This has NOTHING to do with federal regulations or prohibitions. You realize that right? I mean if you don't, they you just can't do more than hit the bong.

This is a wholly CITY action. It has nothing to do with the feds or even the state. When the statute allowing medical marijuana was passed, the state gave individual cities the option of allowing marijuna to be sold in those cities or, if they started having ill effects within those cities, the city could legally refuse a business license.

Nothing is prohibited. People who want pot can still legally buy it and possess it. They just have to go to another city to buy it.

If you want to know why legalization doesn't work, that means you would have to pay attention to the citizens impacted by the drug use of those around them. We know that's not going to happen.

 

[Zxereus]

The amount of head shops in the LA area is simply proof that the medical maryjuana issue is a joke and was only meant as opening the door for legalization for pot heads.

 

[MikeK]

[...]After people have lived with legalized marijuana for awhile

Can you provide examples of marijuana having been legalized and then prohibited again?

they invariably criminalize it so, you're right. It won't be legal any time soon.

What has happened in California is not because of marijuana but rather because of the failed bureaucratic attempt to regulate distribution. This medical availability provision is simply a dumb compromise and is the cause of the problem. Just legalize without all the nonsense and the problems will disappear.

After all, the voters had an opportunity for full legalization and regulation like tobacco or alcohol and soundly rejected it.

That is because the intense Reefer Madness brainwash which has been imposed since 1937 has effectively indoctrinated the lower IQ segment of the population.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Nothing is prohibited. People who want pot can still legally buy it and possess it. They just have to go to another city to buy it.

And the further concentration will bring about the same problem in those remaining areas.

If you want to know why legalization doesn't work, that means you would have to pay attention to the citizens impacted by the drug use of those around them. We know that's not going to happen.

Legalization would not cause such problems. This problem is the result of limited availability in a few small areas. Can't you see that? Is it really that hard to understand? Is it not obvious to you that full legalization, as with beverage alcohol, is the only solution to this problem?

 

[Swagger]

I'm a hard-right conservative and it never ceases to amaze me that most of the Western World hasn't legalised (and began to tax) the sale of marijuana. I suspect that most of the studies researching the supposedly harmful effects of herbal cannabis are funded by groups lobbying on behalf of the alcohol industry. This isn't a left and right thing, it's a common sense thing, in my opinion.

 

[Katzndogz]

Sorry Mike. But marijuana was sold openly everywhere in Los Angeles. Then the city pulled the business licenses and closed the dispensaries down. Legal, now illegal. Get it.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

We did that. Both. Which is why Los Angeles is closing the clinics.

Pot has been legal in California since 1996.

It hasn't been fully decriminalized. Still lots of murky grey-areas. It's time to fully legalize it and empty our Prisons. A damn Pot-Head does not belong in Prison with vicious brutal murderers, rapists, and child molesters. It's absolutely ludicrous & inconceivable how that could have ever been allowed to happen. The same can be said of Drug Addicts in general. They need rehab help. They don't need to be shoved into cells with vicious animals. That's just wrong. Our System is archaic and broken. Time to fix it.

Pot heads have not been sent to prison for pot offenses for 18 years. If they are sent to prison, it's because of some other crime. Whether you believe it or not, pot heads are also criminals, child molesters, murderers and rapists. There is nothing about pot that makes a person incapable of committing some other crime. You are so invested in marijuana use that you simply do not understand what happened. Marijuana is still legal in California. The dispensaries have been closed in the City of Los Angeles. The disipensaries have been closed because the City Council meetings were clogged, standing room only, with citizens demanding that the dispensaries be closed. Mail carriers were getting hernias from the letters of complaint. There was an expected benefit. That benefit did not occur. Instead there was rising crime, horrendous car accidents, a dramatic increase in hit and run deaths and increased drug use in the schools because the dispensaries were actively advertising and targeting school children.

In 2010, there were more than 50,000 arrests for marijuana-related crimes in California.

 

[LogikAndReazon]

while addressing worries by neighborhood groups that streets were being overrun by dispensaries and pot users.

This is one of those vague hysterical statements that makes pot seem like a murky contagion laying siege to Apple Pie and the soul of our great nation. And whose going to save us from impending doom, as this evil weed saps our collective motivation and leads us through a gateway toward heroine and animal worship? Answer: Government. Classic Republican War on Drugs.

It harkens back to the Reagan War on Drugs, which was an attempt to scare people into growing a massive federal bureaucracy. Big Brother created a whole new way for analyzing and saving people from this massive slippery slope of self-ruin. One puff on a joint and the next day you were giving hand-jobs under a bridge for crack. I remember in the 80s there was all this healthy, pro to-religious rhetoric about saving people from pot as Government began to relax the laws on prescription drugs so that it could pump our kids full of Ritalin and their parents full of Prozac and Zoloft. Remember Nancy Reagan's after school mantra, broadcast every day from Washington? "You can't fly when you're high."

Once again we saw the GOP using government to save a vulnerable populace from itself. We needed to be protected from ourselves. Individuals cannot be trusted to decide which substances to put in their own bodies. Protect us Dear Ronnie from the Soviets and the Terrorists and Janet Jackson's breast.

Where was Ronnie in the 60s to save Steve Jobs from the LSD he was dropping and the pot he was smoking. How come Big Government didn't save Steve Jobs from himself. Perhaps Ronnie could have scared the freedom and creativity right out of Mr. Jobs.

We must listen to Saint Ronnie and join his 30 year crusade to save Americans from themselves. Don't give the people freedom to make mistakes! Don't give people the freedom to explore life on their own terms! Government must protect us from freedom! Look what happened to Steve Jobs. One puff on a joint and he was off on a dark journey to creating the iPad. The world would have been much better off if Steve Jobs had been a substance free drone, listening obediently to Big Government's holy teachings for proper living. Perhaps Steve could have been a middling administrator at an insurance agency. Ronnie could have replaced that bong with a Bible, and Steve could have been morally anesthetized, drained of his freedom and life-force, sitting meekly meekly at the feet of the Holy Father.

I've seen good people - indeed, great friends - laid low by obesity, television, religion, prozac, sugar, alcohol, political affiliation, stupidity, and yes - drugs. But, unlike the Republicans, I believe that we should err on the side of freedom, because the downside making government powerful enough to protect us from everything is the biggest danger of all. I don't need Michael Bloomberg protecting me from soda any more than I need Ronald Reagan and the War on Drugs protecting me from pot. Life includes risk. Freedom includes risk. Adulthood requires the maximization of choice (unless you're a Republican who needs to be protected by Big Brother).

Under the federal powers created by Reagan, the FBI created a drug-use profile on Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs created a technological revolution, but Big Government wanted to save him from himself. (Just wait until the Republicans get even more power - perhaps by capturing all three branches. You ain't seen nothing yet. Washington will become ultra powerful with its wars on Drugs and Terrorism and Secularism and Liberalism and Gays.)

Protect us from ourselves Ronnie!

Steve Jobs 'drug use' laid bare in secret FBI dossier - Mirror Online

Indeed, give the people the freedom to make mistakes..........and the freedom of others to deny any tax dollars for the rehabilitation of junkies

 

[GHook93]

It hasn't been fully decriminalized. Still lots of murky grey-areas. It's time to fully legalize it and empty our Prisons. A damn Pot-Head does not belong in Prison with vicious brutal murderers, rapists, and child molesters. It's absolutely ludicrous & inconceivable how that could have ever been allowed to happen. The same can be said of Drug Addicts in general. They need rehab help. They don't need to be shoved into cells with vicious animals. That's just wrong. Our System is archaic and broken. Time to fix it.

Pot heads have not been sent to prison for pot offenses for 18 years. If they are sent to prison, it's because of some other crime. Whether you believe it or not, pot heads are also criminals, child molesters, murderers and rapists. There is nothing about pot that makes a person incapable of committing some other crime. You are so invested in marijuana use that you simply do not understand what happened. Marijuana is still legal in California. The dispensaries have been closed in the City of Los Angeles. The disipensaries have been closed because the City Council meetings were clogged, standing room only, with citizens demanding that the dispensaries be closed. Mail carriers were getting hernias from the letters of complaint. There was an expected benefit. That benefit did not occur. Instead there was rising crime, horrendous car accidents, a dramatic increase in hit and run deaths and increased drug use in the schools because the dispensaries were actively advertising and targeting school children.

In 2010, there were more than 50,000 arrests for marijuana-related crimes in California.

And I guarantee the ones in prison are there for distribution and probably multiple distribution or transportation over the border. Possession of weed is a minor offense and isn't going to land you in any jail in America for possession alone!

 

[eflatminor]

In 2010, there were more than 50,000 arrests for marijuana-related crimes in California.

Isn't it strange that 50,000 people should be arrested that did not take anything that did not belong to them nor did they hurt another.

I think one should have to take what doesn't belong to them or unnecessarily hurt another before they're subject to arrest. Is that not reasonable?

 

[Zxereus]

I'm a hard-right conservative and it never ceases to amaze me that most of the Western World hasn't legalised (and began to tax) the sale of marijuana. I suspect that most of the studies researching the supposedly harmful effects of herbal cannabis are funded by groups lobbying on behalf of the alcohol industry. This isn't a left and right thing, it's a common sense thing, in my opinion.

So would the commercial production and tax of pot end the production of pot by individuals?
You know the answer, it's a very loud NO!
What you would then have is that since pot is relatively to grow, is individuals producing and selling to avoid taxes just like it is now. An illegal black market.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

Sorry Mike. But marijuana was sold openly everywhere in Los Angeles. Then the city pulled the business licenses and closed the dispensaries down. Legal, now illegal. Get it.

No it wasn't. You must be high on something else. I'm a fucking card-carrying legal medical marijuana user. You're out of your depths. Sit down and shut the fuck up.

 

[ConservaDerrps]

I'm a hard-right conservative and it never ceases to amaze me that most of the Western World hasn't legalised (and began to tax) the sale of marijuana. I suspect that most of the studies researching the supposedly harmful effects of herbal cannabis are funded by groups lobbying on behalf of the alcohol industry. This isn't a left and right thing, it's a common sense thing, in my opinion.

So would the commercial production and tax of pot end the production of pot by individuals?
You know the answer, it's a very loud NO!
What you would then have is that since pot is relatively to grow, is individuals producing and selling to avoid taxes just like it is now. An illegal black market.

Right. Because there's a massive home-grown tobacco black market too, right? If pot were legal, you know who would start producing it? The big tobacco companies that have already purchased land up in NorCal BANKING on pot being legal one day.

They'd force the individual growers out, which is actually an argument by the pro-pot side to NOT legalize it. Convoluted as fuck, huh? But I tend to side with common sense that tells us a) pot isn't harmful in the long run b) pot is just like any other vice; it should be regulated and taxed and c) anti-pot people are stuck in 19-dickety-2.

 

[paulitician]

I'm a hard-right conservative and it never ceases to amaze me that most of the Western World hasn't legalised (and began to tax) the sale of marijuana. I suspect that most of the studies researching the supposedly harmful effects of herbal cannabis are funded by groups lobbying on behalf of the alcohol industry. This isn't a left and right thing, it's a common sense thing, in my opinion.

Yes, time to get real. I suspect, one day Americans will look back on the prohibition of Marijuana the way they do now with Alcohol Prohibition. It will seem ludicrous and somewhat laughable. Putting Marijuana Smokers in Prison with brutal murderers, rapists, and child molesters? That will absolutely shock future generations. Hell, it's shocking now. Time to legalize it and move on. Period, end of story.