Koran’s denial of Jesus’ crucifixion & Islam’s legitimacy

[hobelim]

BTW just looking at the history of how the Quran was compiled shows that inerrancy is impossible. The caliphs wrote it down and compiled it in a single volume after variant texts of it were going around. There is no reason to believe that the Quran as we have it is the original and not a variant texts based on what Mohammad's self proclaimed successors wanted to keep.

What people fail to realize is the Qur'an was originally memorized word for word. Muhammad personally taught many people to recite the words of the Qur'an perfectly, and they in turn taught others. It wasn't until years later the words were written down into a book.

Still to this day, millions of muslims memorize the entire Qur'an, complete with various sentence pauses, tonal inflictions, and emphasis on certain words. Exactly, as the Prophet Muhammad first said them over 1400 years ago.

In fact, all over the Islamic world, there are still Qur'an recitation contests which are very popular among the muslim people. ....

not news, sunni dear. Anyone who has been around muslims heard this crap OVER AND OVER. Memorization of texts is not a singular ISLAMIC FEAT----it was done
before the institution of the Printing press all over the
literate world (and the less literate like DA UMMAH) ----
The Koran is not long and-----like other ancient writings---
is done in verse------which makes memorizing easier---HOWEVER----the notion that one can assume it stayed exactly the same-------is silly-----since it was not written until
100 years after the meccan rapist died. -------its writers had
AGENDAS. A personal anecdote----hubby does the Friday nite thing which is something like a 20 minute recitation with some variation for this or that------one time he could not find his prayer book----
I said "sheeeesh ---you know it-----say it and get it over with"
(I am a bit irreverent) He refused-----"my father said 'ALWAYS read-------people who do not read EVENTUALLY
INTRODUCE ERROR"-------like muslims"

When was the last time that you read the story of the three pigs?

What are the odds that you couldn't recite the story exactly as you first heard it read to you as a child?

Even if you embellished the story here and there would it matter in the least or change the moral of the story, if you understood the moral of the story?

 

[irosie91]

BTW just looking at the history of how the Quran was compiled shows that inerrancy is impossible. The caliphs wrote it down and compiled it in a single volume after variant texts of it were going around. There is no reason to believe that the Quran as we have it is the original and not a variant texts based on what Mohammad's self proclaimed successors wanted to keep.

What people fail to realize is the Qur'an was originally memorized word for word. Muhammad personally taught many people to recite the words of the Qur'an perfectly, and they in turn taught others. It wasn't until years later the words were written down into a book.

Still to this day, millions of muslims memorize the entire Qur'an, complete with various sentence pauses, tonal inflictions, and emphasis on certain words. Exactly, as the Prophet Muhammad first said them over 1400 years ago.

In fact, all over the Islamic world, there are still Qur'an recitation contests which are very popular among the muslim people. ....

not news, sunni dear. Anyone who has been around muslims heard this crap OVER AND OVER. Memorization of texts is not a singular ISLAMIC FEAT----it was done
before the institution of the Printing press all over the
literate world (and the less literate like DA UMMAH) ----
The Koran is not long and-----like other ancient writings---
is done in verse------which makes memorizing easier---HOWEVER----the notion that one can assume it stayed exactly the same-------is silly-----since it was not written until
100 years after the meccan rapist died. -------its writers had
AGENDAS. A personal anecdote----hubby does the Friday nite thing which is something like a 20 minute recitation with some variation for this or that------one time he could not find his prayer book----
I said "sheeeesh ---you know it-----say it and get it over with"
(I am a bit irreverent) He refused-----"my father said 'ALWAYS read-------people who do not read EVENTUALLY
INTRODUCE ERROR"-------like muslims"

When was the last time that you read the story of the three pigs?

What are the odds that you couldn't recite the story exactly as you first heard it read to you as a child?

Even if you embellished the story here and there would it matter in the least or change the moral of the story?

ever play "TELEPHONE" ??-----parlor game

 

[hobelim]

BTW just looking at the history of how the Quran was compiled shows that inerrancy is impossible. The caliphs wrote it down and compiled it in a single volume after variant texts of it were going around. There is no reason to believe that the Quran as we have it is the original and not a variant texts based on what Mohammad's self proclaimed successors wanted to keep.

What people fail to realize is the Qur'an was originally memorized word for word. Muhammad personally taught many people to recite the words of the Qur'an perfectly, and they in turn taught others. It wasn't until years later the words were written down into a book.

Still to this day, millions of muslims memorize the entire Qur'an, complete with various sentence pauses, tonal inflictions, and emphasis on certain words. Exactly, as the Prophet Muhammad first said them over 1400 years ago.

In fact, all over the Islamic world, there are still Qur'an recitation contests which are very popular among the muslim people. ....

not news, sunni dear. Anyone who has been around muslims heard this crap OVER AND OVER. Memorization of texts is not a singular ISLAMIC FEAT----it was done
before the institution of the Printing press all over the
literate world (and the less literate like DA UMMAH) ----
The Koran is not long and-----like other ancient writings---
is done in verse------which makes memorizing easier---HOWEVER----the notion that one can assume it stayed exactly the same-------is silly-----since it was not written until
100 years after the meccan rapist died. -------its writers had
AGENDAS. A personal anecdote----hubby does the Friday nite thing which is something like a 20 minute recitation with some variation for this or that------one time he could not find his prayer book----
I said "sheeeesh ---you know it-----say it and get it over with"
(I am a bit irreverent) He refused-----"my father said 'ALWAYS read-------people who do not read EVENTUALLY
INTRODUCE ERROR"-------like muslims"

When was the last time that you read the story of the three pigs?

What are the odds that you couldn't recite the story exactly as you first heard it read to you as a child?

Even if you embellished the story here and there would it matter in the least or change the moral of the story?

ever play "TELEPHONE" ??-----parlor game

Sure, the story goes bananas in short order like a rumor, but that's a story with no teaching.

Any adult who understands the moral of any story can embellish it in any number of ways without diluting or detracting from the message at all..

 

[irosie91]

BTW just looking at the history of how the Quran was compiled shows that inerrancy is impossible. The caliphs wrote it down and compiled it in a single volume after variant texts of it were going around. There is no reason to believe that the Quran as we have it is the original and not a variant texts based on what Mohammad's self proclaimed successors wanted to keep.

What people fail to realize is the Qur'an was originally memorized word for word. Muhammad personally taught many people to recite the words of the Qur'an perfectly, and they in turn taught others. It wasn't until years later the words were written down into a book.

Still to this day, millions of muslims memorize the entire Qur'an, complete with various sentence pauses, tonal inflictions, and emphasis on certain words. Exactly, as the Prophet Muhammad first said them over 1400 years ago.

In fact, all over the Islamic world, there are still Qur'an recitation contests which are very popular among the muslim people. ....

not news, sunni dear. Anyone who has been around muslims heard this crap OVER AND OVER. Memorization of texts is not a singular ISLAMIC FEAT----it was done
before the institution of the Printing press all over the
literate world (and the less literate like DA UMMAH) ----
The Koran is not long and-----like other ancient writings---
is done in verse------which makes memorizing easier---HOWEVER----the notion that one can assume it stayed exactly the same-------is silly-----since it was not written until
100 years after the meccan rapist died. -------its writers had
AGENDAS. A personal anecdote----hubby does the Friday nite thing which is something like a 20 minute recitation with some variation for this or that------one time he could not find his prayer book----
I said "sheeeesh ---you know it-----say it and get it over with"
(I am a bit irreverent) He refused-----"my father said 'ALWAYS read-------people who do not read EVENTUALLY
INTRODUCE ERROR"-------like muslims"

When was the last time that you read the story of the three pigs?

What are the odds that you couldn't recite the story exactly as you first heard it read to you as a child?

Even if you embellished the story here and there would it matter in the least or change the moral of the story?

ever play "TELEPHONE" ??-----parlor game

Sure, the story goes bananas in short order like a rumor, but that's a story with no teaching.

Any adult who understands the moral of any story can embellish it in any number of ways without diluting or detracting from the message at all..

dilution can happen in 100 years-----let alone 2000 years!!!!

 

[Sunni Man]

Muhammad himself taught the Qur'an word for word to dozens of his followers. He didn't stop until they could recite it perfectly.

Then those people demanded the same perfection from those they taught.

And so it has gone on thru the centuries, unbroken and unadulterated.

The Qur'an, perfect and unchanged for 1400 years. .....

 

[irosie91]

Muhammad himself taught the Qur'an word for word to dozens of his followers. He didn't stop until they could recite it perfectly.

Then those people demanded the same perfection from those they taught.

And so it has gone on thru the centuries, unbroken and unadulterated.

The Qur'an, perfect and unchanged for 1400 years. .....

BS----muhummad, himself, did not know the Koran----
he progressively abrogated this and that------and Islamic
scholars argue that DA KORAN WAS MADE AT THE TIME OF THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE-----ETERNAL AND UNCHANGING-------quite a contradiction there

 

[irosie91]

PS----the only scriptural writing that is ETERNAL AND UNCHANGING is------DA SONG OF SOLOMON and----
DA KAMA SUDTRA

 

[JoelT1]

Muhammad himself taught the Qur'an word for word to dozens of his followers. He didn't stop until they could recite it perfectly.

Then those people demanded the same perfection from those they taught.

And so it has gone on thru the centuries, unbroken and unadulterated.

The Qur'an, perfect and unchanged for 1400 years. .....

BS----muhummad, himself, did not know the Koran----
he progressively abrogated this and that------and Islamic
scholars argue that DA KORAN WAS MADE AT THE TIME OF THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE-----ETERNAL AND UNCHANGING-------quite a contradiction there

Here, Muhammad’s sock puppet Allah revises Koran verses The people knew better

 

[JoelT1]

PS----the only scriptural writing that is ETERNAL AND UNCHANGING is------DA SONG OF SOLOMON and----
DA KAMA SUDTRA

Funny: “Allah” (ie Muhammad) boasts he’s the Best Planner But he’s unable to plan best Koran verses LOL Koran is a farce & Islam is a hoax

 

[JoelT1]

Muhammad himself taught the Qur'an word for word to dozens of his followers. He didn't stop until they could recite it perfectly.

Then those people demanded the same perfection from those they taught.

And so it has gone on thru the centuries, unbroken and unadulterated.

The Qur'an, perfect and unchanged for 1400 years. .....

Muhammad was a fake and Jews, Christians, even Arabs knew it by him screwing up Biblical material in his bogus “messages” Here he confuses Jacob as Abraham’s son, instead of grandson And he doesn’t know Ishmael Surat Maryam [19:47-49] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

Below a renowned scholar discusses this glaring and embarrassing error

 

[JoelT1]

Muhammad himself taught the Qur'an word for word to dozens of his followers. He didn't stop until they could recite it perfectly.

Then those people demanded the same perfection from those they taught.

And so it has gone on thru the centuries, unbroken and unadulterated.

The Qur'an, perfect and unchanged for 1400 years. .....

Muhammad’s own peeps knew he was a fraud who simply recycled as “messages” the biblical material he obtained from Jews and Christians

 

[JoelT1]

Muhammad himself taught the Qur'an word for word to dozens of his followers. He didn't stop until they could recite it perfectly.

Then those people demanded the same perfection from those they taught.

And so it has gone on thru the centuries, unbroken and unadulterated.

The Qur'an, perfect and unchanged for 1400 years. .....

The classic book 23 Years by Ali Dashti makes the case that Muhammad’s so-called prophethood was a complete fraud, which it was. It’s available free in PDF form on the Internet.

And here, a Muslim realizes Islam is a hoax Watch the fireworks

 

[Avatar4321]

BTW just looking at the history of how the Quran was compiled shows that inerrancy is impossible. The caliphs wrote it down and compiled it in a single volume after variant texts of it were going around. There is no reason to believe that the Quran as we have it is the original and not a variant texts based on what Mohammad's self proclaimed successors wanted to keep.

Sounds a lot like the story of the NT.

The bible does not claim inerrancy

you make a VERY IMPORTANT POINT---it doesn't

This is why the gift of the Holy Ghost is so vital to the Church. When revelation comes from God its pure. But the second we touch it and begin to write and interpret it, we touch it with our Fallen nature.

God knew this so He gave us the gift of the Holy Ghost to teach us directly. The scriptures can point us where to go but it is the Holy Spirit that gives us understanding and shows us what to do.

 

[Avatar4321]

The bible does not claim inerrancy

A lot of it's adherents do make that claim. Where in the Bible does it say any section is not literally true and should not be considered the word of God?

Yes many of its adherents do. Which is sadly because they don't understand what it teaches. I fear some have turned the scriptures of the Holy God into an idol yo themselves.

I don't think songs of Solomon is inspired at all. I don't know that God says a word in it.

The Bible contains the Word of God. It also contains the words of the devil. It contains the words of good men and evil men. And the words of an ass rebuking his master

 

[Avatar4321]

The bible does not claim inerrancy

A lot of it's adherents do make that claim. Where in the Bible does it say any section is not literally true and should not be considered the word of God?

I've heard some people say, "If its in the Bible, I believe it" without ever even trying to distinguish between what is literal or figurative, many even going as far as to claim that it should all be taken literally even after being shown the verse where Jesus near the end of his ministry says "Till now I have been using figures of speech."


When I point out the fact that to deny that Jesus used figurative speech is to not believe in what is written in the bible, I usually get accused of being a hateful atheist anti-Christian socialist commie libtard.


Apparently by missing the point of the teaching of the bible many people have lost their minds.

I've met people who have wandered from church to church looking for one that teaches the Bible only. But they keep leaving that Church because they find something that isn't in the bible.

I thought this was curious. Because it was quickly apparent for me that you cannot find a church that can teach from the Bible only when the Bible teaches the exact opposite.

The new testament Church is a Church of continuing revelation. This is exemplified in the fact that the gift of the holy ghost was vital in the new testament church. The Holy Ghost is a member of the Godhead. He is God. So if the Holy Ghost is speaking, God is speaking and thus the Bible cannot be all of God's word.

If the Bible is all we have, then the Holy Ghost must, logically, not be working in the hearts of men. And then leads to huge problems.

The primary being one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit or the spirit of prophecy. Rev 19:10 teaches us that it is by the spirit of prophecy that we know Jesus is the Christ. Without the Holy Ghost, there is no prophecy. Without prophecy no man knows Christ. Eternal life is knowing Christ.

So if we accept that the Bible alone is all there is than literally no one alive now has eternal life.

 

[Avatar4321]

PS----the only scriptural writing that is ETERNAL AND UNCHANGING is------DA SONG OF SOLOMON and----
DA KAMA SUDTRA

The sermons at your church must be interesting

 

[irosie91]

PS----the only scriptural writing that is ETERNAL AND UNCHANGING is------DA SONG OF SOLOMON and----
DA KAMA SUDTRA

The sermons at your church must be interesting

I wouldn't call them "sermons"

 

[xyz]

And yet Islam has 1.2 billion adherents worldwide and still growing. ....

Especially with these guys:
Report: Russians used Muslim-American Facebook group to spread fake news

 

[JoelT1]

And yet Islam has 1.2 billion adherents worldwide and still growing. ....

Especially with these guys:
Report: Russians used Muslim-American Facebook group to spread fake news

1.5+ billion Muslims yet not 1 important scientific discovery or invention from 57 Muslim countries. Quantity not quality

 

[xyz]

And yet Islam has 1.2 billion adherents worldwide and still growing. ....

Especially with these guys:
Report: Russians used Muslim-American Facebook group to spread fake news

1.5+ billion Muslims yet not 1 important scientific discovery or invention from 57 Muslim countries. Quantity not quality

Wow, you flunked algebra!