Koran’s denial of Jesus’ crucifixion & Islam’s legitimacy

I've taught martial arts for many years. I have had many Muslims in my classes. They have been to a person- men, women and children all - wonderful people, intelligent and educated, devoted to family and dedicated students to the art.

Most knew the difference between faith and religion.
 
I've taught martial arts for many years. I have had many Muslims in my classes. They have been to a person- men, women and children all - wonderful people, intelligent and educated, devoted to family and dedicated students to the art.

Most knew the difference between faith and religion.

Very intelligent, educated people don’t believe a Jesus body double was crucified instead.

For Muslims, the brain is a donkey and you leave your donkey outside the House of Islam
 
I've taught martial arts for many years. I have had many Muslims in my classes. They have been to a person- men, women and children all - wonderful people, intelligent and educated, devoted to family and dedicated students to the art.

Most knew the difference between faith and religion.

That's good to hear. It's too bad the nations from which they have emigrated are so unjust.
 
I've taught martial arts for many years. I have had many Muslims in my classes. They have been to a person- men, women and children all - wonderful people, intelligent and educated, devoted to family and dedicated students to the art.

Most knew the difference between faith and religion.

That's good to hear. It's too bad the nations from which they have emigrated are so unjust.

Most if not all Islamic countries are based on sharia law to one extent or another So Muslims have only themselves to blame for their misery
 
Islam’s legitimacy is predicated on Muslims’ claim that the Koran was dictated by “Allah” and, thus, is inerrant, infallible and perfect. Muslims typically allege that the Bible was changed or corrupted by Jews & Christians (although, unable to prove this allegation or even explain how and when), necessitating the “infallible” Koran.

But, what if the Koran isn’t inerrant, infallible and perfect? It would undermine the premise of divine authorship and invalidate Islam. Muslims do not like to be confronted with the prospect of errors in the Koran, but, many exist.

For example, perhaps the most egregious error is the Koran is the denial of the historical crucifixion of Jesus, an undebateable fact verified by reputable ancient Roman (Tacitus) and Jewish (Josephus) historians, the preponderance of reputable scholars and recorded in the Bible.

“And [for] their saying, "Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah ." And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.”

Surat An-Nisa' [4:157-158] - The Noble Qur'an - القرآن الكريم

Now, the Koran would have people believe that Allah fashioned a Jesus look-alike or body double to cleverly deceive the Roman authorities, and raise Jesus alive to heaven as the Romans proceeded to crucify the Jesus imposter! Why would “Allah” with his infinite powers have needed to resort to such shenanigans when “Allah” could have simply raised Jesus? Of course, this nonsensical series of events never occurred, making the Koran mistaken about perhaps the most famous event in history and committing perhaps the biggest blunder in literary history, which would render the Koran a farce and Islam a hoax.

Sounds like you know what you want to be true, and you'll believe, while lambasting others for mindlessly believing.... kind of hypocritical.
 
It is all likely bullshit anyways. Either islam or christianity are based on reality.

I agree. Either Islam or Christianity are based on reality. Only one can be correct. There can be only one. And unlike Highlander, that one is the one not chopping off heads

Funny how you agree that atheism has no basis in reality
 
BTW just looking at the history of how the Quran was compiled shows that inerrancy is impossible. The caliphs wrote it down and compiled it in a single volume after variant texts of it were going around. There is no reason to believe that the Quran as we have it is the original and not a variant texts based on what Mohammad's self proclaimed successors wanted to keep.
 
And yet Islam has 1.2 billion adherents worldwide and still growing. .... :thup:

Stop the Muslims that kill anyone who leaves the faith and allow religious liberty throughout the Muslim world and I suspect the numbers might be different.
 
BTW just looking at the history of how the Quran was compiled shows that inerrancy is impossible. The caliphs wrote it down and compiled it in a single volume after variant texts of it were going around. There is no reason to believe that the Quran as we have it is the original and not a variant texts based on what Mohammad's self proclaimed successors wanted to keep.
Sounds a lot like the story of the NT.
 
BTW just looking at the history of how the Quran was compiled shows that inerrancy is impossible. The caliphs wrote it down and compiled it in a single volume after variant texts of it were going around. There is no reason to believe that the Quran as we have it is the original and not a variant texts based on what Mohammad's self proclaimed successors wanted to keep.
Sounds a lot like the story of the NT.

yes it does------and most likely was------but the clergy of each CLAIM that the whole shebang is divinely inspired anyway----
debate is futile
 
BTW just looking at the history of how the Quran was compiled shows that inerrancy is impossible. The caliphs wrote it down and compiled it in a single volume after variant texts of it were going around. There is no reason to believe that the Quran as we have it is the original and not a variant texts based on what Mohammad's self proclaimed successors wanted to keep.
Sounds a lot like the story of the NT.

The bible does not claim inerrancy
 
BTW just looking at the history of how the Quran was compiled shows that inerrancy is impossible. The caliphs wrote it down and compiled it in a single volume after variant texts of it were going around. There is no reason to believe that the Quran as we have it is the original and not a variant texts based on what Mohammad's self proclaimed successors wanted to keep.
What people fail to realize is the Qur'an was originally memorized word for word. Muhammad personally taught many people to recite the words of the Qur'an perfectly, and they in turn taught others. It wasn't until years later the words were written down into a book.

Still to this day, millions of muslims memorize the entire Qur'an, complete with various sentence pauses, tonal inflictions, and emphasis on certain words. Exactly, as the Prophet Muhammad first said them over 1400 years ago.

In fact, all over the Islamic world, there are still Qur'an recitation contests which are very popular among the muslim people. .... :cool:
 
BTW just looking at the history of how the Quran was compiled shows that inerrancy is impossible. The caliphs wrote it down and compiled it in a single volume after variant texts of it were going around. There is no reason to believe that the Quran as we have it is the original and not a variant texts based on what Mohammad's self proclaimed successors wanted to keep.
Sounds a lot like the story of the NT.

The bible does not claim inerrancy

you make a VERY IMPORTANT POINT---it doesn't
 
BTW just looking at the history of how the Quran was compiled shows that inerrancy is impossible. The caliphs wrote it down and compiled it in a single volume after variant texts of it were going around. There is no reason to believe that the Quran as we have it is the original and not a variant texts based on what Mohammad's self proclaimed successors wanted to keep.
Sounds a lot like the story of the NT.

The bible does not claim inerrancy

Indeed. Considering the number of fingers that have poked around in the translation pie through the centuries, that would be wishful thinking at best.
 
The bible does not claim inerrancy
A lot of it's adherents do make that claim. Where in the Bible does it say any section is not literally true and should not be considered the word of God?

it don't---------for the doubts -----go to commentary.
For the NT, it's good to know who knew Jesus and who
never met Him-----it helps me get a perspective
 
The bible does not claim inerrancy
A lot of it's adherents do make that claim. Where in the Bible does it say any section is not literally true and should not be considered the word of God?


I've heard some people say, "If its in the Bible, I believe it" without ever even trying to distinguish between what is literal or figurative, many even going as far as to claim that it should all be taken literally even after being shown the verse where Jesus near the end of his ministry says "Till now I have been using figures of speech."


When I point out the fact that to deny that Jesus used figurative speech is to not believe in what is written in the bible, I usually get accused of being a hateful atheist anti-Christian socialist commie libtard.


Apparently by missing the point of the teaching of the bible many people have lost their minds.
 
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BTW just looking at the history of how the Quran was compiled shows that inerrancy is impossible. The caliphs wrote it down and compiled it in a single volume after variant texts of it were going around. There is no reason to believe that the Quran as we have it is the original and not a variant texts based on what Mohammad's self proclaimed successors wanted to keep.
What people fail to realize is the Qur'an was originally memorized word for word. Muhammad personally taught many people to recite the words of the Qur'an perfectly, and they in turn taught others. It wasn't until years later the words were written down into a book.

Still to this day, millions of muslims memorize the entire Qur'an, complete with various sentence pauses, tonal inflictions, and emphasis on certain words. Exactly, as the Prophet Muhammad first said them over 1400 years ago.

In fact, all over the Islamic world, there are still Qur'an recitation contests which are very popular among the muslim people. .... :cool:

not news, sunni dear. Anyone who has been around muslims heard this crap OVER AND OVER. Memorization of texts is not a singular ISLAMIC FEAT----it was done
before the institution of the Printing press all over the
literate world (and the less literate like DA UMMAH) ----
The Koran is not long and-----like other ancient writings---
is done in verse------which makes memorizing easier---HOWEVER----the notion that one can assume it stayed exactly the same-------is silly-----since it was not written until
100 years after the meccan rapist died. -------its writers had
AGENDAS. A personal anecdote----hubby does the Friday nite thing which is something like a 20 minute recitation with some variation for this or that------one time he could not find his prayer book----
I said "sheeeesh ---you know it-----say it and get it over with"
(I am a bit irreverent) He refused-----"my father said 'ALWAYS read-------people who do not read EVENTUALLY
INTRODUCE ERROR"-------like muslims"
 

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