Keynesian Economics Evidently saved the world from economic meltdown

[PubliusInfinitum]

that is, of course, unless the free market alternative would have seen widescale unemployment worse than what we have after the stimulus. Again, if your timeframe is 6 months for US then why the hell should we continue to listen to your Nafta theories for over a decade?

ROFLMNAO... Oh that's cute... the baseless assumption that the economic ramifications of the natural accountability of the market would have resulted in WORSE economic suffering... over the Keynsian alternative...

Again we can return to history and examine the boom bust cycles prior to the Federal Reserve coming into play... the recession of 1922 is a classic example, where unemployment spiked to 14% over the first year and by the end of the second year it was at 3%... Now THIS the left says is preferrable to the double digit unemployment of the ENTIRE 1930s... which resulted from roughly the same Keysian policies we're seeing trotted out today...

So the individual is left to decide for themselves which is more reasonable... sharp increases of unemployment for 12 months, which quickly return, through the natural cycle to norms; or continuous hyper-unemployment for a decade...

As for me... I've gotta go with the natural cycle... just seems more reasonable to me.

yea dude.. the new fucking deal SCREAMS of "natural cycle"..








See, this is why it's so easy to spot your blustering bullshit. Cute, indeed.

I'm willing to pay upt o $50 to anyone who can find in my position ANYTHING which could lead a reasonably intelligent person to conclude that my position reflects some notion that 'the new deal 'sreams' of natural cycle...'

Just pony up the example and I'll consider your offering; where such can be shown you're in for a $50 windfall..

The sad part here is that this member cannot be held accountable for her projected conclusion, which seeks to imply a conclusion which was never advanced... and this clearly for the purposes of obtuse deception.

But such is the nature of the common idiot...

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

In order to claim that free market capitalism has failed, it's incumbent upon you to prove, beyond any qualification or shadow of doubt, that a truly free market model was in fact being followed...Which you cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, because it wasn't.

HAHAHAHA!


talk about flaying around like a backbone-less eel, dude! It's fucking HILARIOUS to see you people cry about some utopian "perfect free market" which you think, apparently, alleviates you from the absolute FAIL we've seen from you Greenspan types. Seriously, dude... you would never give as much room for the same excuses as to why communism failed so, sorry, your "looks good on paper but fails in practice" ass can go sit in the corner with every commie you've ever thrown shit at.

Greenspan was not a believer in the free market, which is proven by the fact that he was the head of the Federal Reserve and his policies while in that position.

The Federal Reserve exists for no other reason than to MANIPULATE THE MARKET... there can be no free-market as long as the Federal Reserve exists; ergo there's not been one SINCE the Federal Reserve first initiated it's market killing tendencies in the very early 1930s...

 

[Harry Dresden]

America is a whiney, over emotional, land of wimps.

and if you dont be quite Sinatra....i am going to take my bat and ball and go home....

 

[Harry Dresden]

Well there ya have it kids... our in-house NAMBLA advocate feels, VERY STRONGLY, that the control of the sale of ONE Infinitesimal product category, is analogous to controlling: The ECONOMY.
l...

wait a second....in a different thread, the in house NAMBLA guy was said to be Agna....since Shogy was ripping Agna a new one about this along with 20 others....???

 

[Shogun]

In order to claim that free market capitalism has failed, it's incumbent upon you to prove, beyond any qualification or shadow of doubt, that a truly free market model was in fact being followed...Which you cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, because it wasn't.

HAHAHAHA!


talk about flaying around like a backbone-less eel, dude! It's fucking HILARIOUS to see you people cry about some utopian "perfect free market" which you think, apparently, alleviates you from the absolute FAIL we've seen from you Greenspan types. Seriously, dude... you would never give as much room for the same excuses as to why communism failed so, sorry, your "looks good on paper but fails in practice" ass can go sit in the corner with every commie you've ever thrown shit at.

Greenspan was not a believer in the free market, which is proven by the fact that he was the head of the Federal Reserve and his policies while in that position.

see, now you are just saying goofy shit. Acting like Alan Greenspan wasn't an agent of free market capitalism is like trying to pretend the grand dragon of the klan has nothing to do with white supremecy. come on, dude.

 

[Shogun]

In order to claim that free market capitalism has failed, it's incumbent upon you to prove, beyond any qualification or shadow of doubt, that a truly free market model was in fact being followed...Which you cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, because it wasn't.

HAHAHAHA!


talk about flaying around like a backbone-less eel, dude! It's fucking HILARIOUS to see you people cry about some utopian "perfect free market" which you think, apparently, alleviates you from the absolute FAIL we've seen from you Greenspan types. Seriously, dude... you would never give as much room for the same excuses as to why communism failed so, sorry, your "looks good on paper but fails in practice" ass can go sit in the corner with every commie you've ever thrown shit at.

Just say "I cannot prove my initial idiotic assertion".

It'll save you a lot of keystrokes.

I'm not the one bobbing and weaving, dude. Maybe you've got a googled image withwhich you can reply.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

HAHAHAHA!


talk about flaying around like a backbone-less eel, dude! It's fucking HILARIOUS to see you people cry about some utopian "perfect free market" which you think, apparently, alleviates you from the absolute FAIL we've seen from you Greenspan types. Seriously, dude... you would never give as much room for the same excuses as to why communism failed so, sorry, your "looks good on paper but fails in practice" ass can go sit in the corner with every commie you've ever thrown shit at.

Greenspan was not a believer in the free market, which is proven by the fact that he was the head of the Federal Reserve and his policies while in that position.

see, now you are just saying goofy shit. Acting like Alan Greenspan wasn't an agent of free market capitalism is like trying to pretend the grand dragon of the klan has nothing to do with white supremecy. come on, dude.

That's not what it's like at all. A better analogy would be, calling Greenspan a proponent of the free market is like saying the grand dragon of the klan isn't racist. If Greenspan believed in the free market he wouldn't have manipulated interest rates or bail out failed businesses the way he did while he was at the Federal Reserve.

 

[Shogun]

HAHAHAHA!


talk about flaying around like a backbone-less eel, dude! It's fucking HILARIOUS to see you people cry about some utopian "perfect free market" which you think, apparently, alleviates you from the absolute FAIL we've seen from you Greenspan types. Seriously, dude... you would never give as much room for the same excuses as to why communism failed so, sorry, your "looks good on paper but fails in practice" ass can go sit in the corner with every commie you've ever thrown shit at.

Greenspan was not a believer in the free market, which is proven by the fact that he was the head of the Federal Reserve and his policies while in that position.

The Federal Reserve exists for no other reason than to MANIPULATE THE MARKET... there can be no free-market as long as the Federal Reserve exists; ergo there's not been one SINCE the Federal Reserve first initiated it's market killing tendencies in the very early 1930s...

that sure DOES MEAN that no free market capitalist has ever been busy pushing our economy in the free market direction!


I find it infinitely HILARIOUS that you pussies seem to think that the presence of a Fed Reserve alleviates the failures of your economic opinion. SERIOUSLY.

 

[Shogun]

Well there ya have it kids... our in-house NAMBLA advocate feels, VERY STRONGLY, that the control of the sale of ONE Infinitesimal product category, is analogous to controlling: The ECONOMY.
l...

wait a second....in a different thread, the in house NAMBLA guy was said to be Agna....since Shogy was ripping Agna a new one about this along with 20 others....???

meh.. this is what happens when Pubic Infernum blathers on in a topic he knows he is failing. I schooled him once on a homosexual thread and he's been bitter about it ever since. Just so you know, ANYONE who believes in the individual right of gays to be gay in America, to this guy, they are allowing nambla-like man on boy sex. If anything, it conveys to what degree this guy is floating out there in batshit crazy land.

 

[Metternich]

Right to be gay? Sounds interesting...

 

[Oddball]

I'm not the one bobbing and weaving, dude. Maybe you've got a googled image withwhich you can reply.

Who's bobbing and weaving here??...You claimed that free market principles caused this mess and got called out to explain how a truly free market model was in fact in effect.

Since then you've done nothing but deflect and make this about me and Greenspan and any other irrelevant rant you can lay your mitts on....Bobbing and weaving indeed.

And for someone who is on board gif overload, you have precious little room to make any wise cracks about anyone else's use of forum images.

 

[Toro]

Well, I was hoping for some economic debate but it seems that it has sort of devolved.

Ah, where is Agna-fellow when you need him?

There is little doubt that government intervention into the credit markets stopped the implosion. Whether or not that is "Keynesianism" is another matter, unless you want to define "Keynesianism" as a catch-all for government intervention in the economy. You might want to call it "Bernankeism" instead.

If you think of Keynesianism as using government to stabilize aggregate demand, which is what is usually thought of as Keynesianism, then we really haven't experienced it because little money has actually been spent outside of the normal stabilizers of increased social payments.

However, the economy is not yet out of the recession, though it may be by the end of the year.

 

[Toro]

As was already pointed out, crediting Keynesian economics for "saving the day" makes as much sense as crediting the arsonist for putting out the fire.

There are many reasons for this debacle. The primary reason is probably the Fed. The person most closely identified with monetary economics and the actions of the Fed is Milton Friedman, not Keynes.

Shortly before he died, Friedman praised Greenspan's handling of monetary policy. Yet, it was those policies which contributed to the housing bubble probably more than anything.

So, that ain't Keynesian. That's Friedman.

 

[Shogun]

I'm not the one bobbing and weaving, dude. Maybe you've got a googled image withwhich you can reply.

Who's bobbing and weaving here??...You claimed that free market principles caused this mess and got called out to explain how a truly free market model was in fact in effect.

Since then you've done nothing but deflect and make this about me and Greenspan and any other irrelevant rant you can lay your mitts on....Bobbing and weaving indeed.

And for someone who is on board gif overload, you have precious little room to make any wise cracks about anyone else's use of forum images.

free market policies which have jettisoned former American jobs have, in fact, crippled our middle class. How many examples of former production workers losing their homes do you want to see?

and, seriously, the whole "it doesn't count because there has never been a perfect free market" crap is laughable at best. You may really, REALLY want to use this as an excuse for the failure of free market capitalism but i'm just not impressed.

Indeed, I bring up Greenspan because he is the posterchild example of the failure of your economic opinion. This is what we call evidence. Perhaps you've heard of the word.

ps.. I'm not the one crying about non sequiters and hyperbole at every corner, dude. I am literally making fun of you each and every time you cry like a bitch about the nature of posts around here only to do the exact same thing when faced with criticism that you clearly cannot handle. Maybe a smarter person than you would have caught all that.

 

[Oddball]

As was already pointed out, crediting Keynesian economics for "saving the day" makes as much sense as crediting the arsonist for putting out the fire.

There are many reasons for this debacle. The primary reason is probably the Fed. The person most closely identified with monetary economics and the actions of the Fed is Milton Friedman, not Keynes.

Shortly before he died, Friedman praised Greenspan's handling of monetary policy. Yet, it was those policies which contributed to the housing bubble probably more than anything.

So, that ain't Keynesian. That's Friedman.

Friedman was way more of an adherent to Keynes than von Mises. His cachet amongst libertarian types is inexplicable to me.

 

[midcan5]

"If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion." George Bernard Shaw

Keynes was a brilliant person. The little bit I have read of his work is extremely insightful for a field that gets few things right. Conservatives forget Reagan did same, but screwed up by lowering taxes too much and investing in military and not infrastructure.


"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." John Maynard Keynes

 

[Oddball]

free market policies which have jettisoned former American jobs have, in fact, crippled our middle class. How many examples of former production workers losing their homes do you want to see?

and, seriously, the whole "it doesn't count because there has never been a perfect free market" crap is laughable at best. You may really, REALLY want to use this as an excuse for the failure of free market capitalism but i'm just not impressed.

Indeed, I bring up Greenspan because he is the posterchild example of the failure of your economic opinion. This is what we call evidence. Perhaps you've heard of the word.

ps.. I'm not the one crying about non sequiters and hyperbole at every corner, dude. I am literally making fun of you each and every time you cry like a bitch about the nature of posts around here only to do the exact same thing when faced with criticism that you clearly cannot handle. Maybe a smarter person than you would have caught all that.

Greenspan is not, in any way, representative of my economic opinion.

That you're pitching invective at me rather than sticking to the topic is beyond obvious. But I don't expect too much more from someone who has so much populist boilerplate sniveling and such little analytical thought to bring to the table.

 

[Oddball]

"If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion." George Bernard Shaw

Keynes was a brilliant person. The little bit I have read of his work is extremely insightful for a field that gets few things right. Conservatives forget Reagan did same, but screwed up by lowering taxes too much and investing in military and not infrastructure.


"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." John Maynard Keynes

Speaking of wicked, Keynes was also very into eugenics.

 

[Toro]

As was already pointed out, crediting Keynesian economics for "saving the day" makes as much sense as crediting the arsonist for putting out the fire.

There are many reasons for this debacle. The primary reason is probably the Fed. The person most closely identified with monetary economics and the actions of the Fed is Milton Friedman, not Keynes.

Shortly before he died, Friedman praised Greenspan's handling of monetary policy. Yet, it was those policies which contributed to the housing bubble probably more than anything.

So, that ain't Keynesian. That's Friedman.

Friedman was way more of an adherent to Keynes than von Mises. His cachet amongst libertarian types is inexplicable to me.

Those are extreme examples, but I'd disagree anyhow.

Friedman mainly preached free market economics, and that the Fed could be used to counter-balance the business cycle. However, Keynes believed that the excess creation of money could create genuine economic growth. Friedman was a vocal critic of this idea, and instead the growth of the money supply should equate to the growth in the economy, which is absolutely correct. Friedman also argued vehemently against financial regulation most of the time. Financial deregulation is probably the second, albeit a distant second, biggest reason for this crash.

 

[Oddball]

There are many reasons for this debacle. The primary reason is probably the Fed. The person most closely identified with monetary economics and the actions of the Fed is Milton Friedman, not Keynes.

Shortly before he died, Friedman praised Greenspan's handling of monetary policy. Yet, it was those policies which contributed to the housing bubble probably more than anything.

So, that ain't Keynesian. That's Friedman.

Friedman was way more of an adherent to Keynes than von Mises. His cachet amongst libertarian types is inexplicable to me.

Those are extreme examples, but I'd disagree anyhow.

Friedman mainly preached free market economics, and that the Fed could be used to counter-balance the business cycle. However, Keynes believed that the excess creation of money could create genuine economic growth. Friedman was a vocal critic of this idea, and instead the growth of the money supply should equate to the growth in the economy, which is absolutely correct.

Friedman preached conditional "free market" economics, like vouchers, which amount to little more than food stamps for gubmint schools. Also, he was primarily responsible for the idea of income tax withholding.

Likewise, the expansion of the fiat currency supply to keep pace with growth in GDP is a good idea in theory, but like all other forms of central planning, it runs into a bit of a snag when imperfect and chaotic humans are added to the mix.

Friedman also argued vehemently against financial regulation most of the time. Financial deregulation is probably the second, albeit a distant second, biggest reason for this crash.

Yeah, I've heard that fairy tale, too. Except that failure to enforce regulations does not mean that those regs were pared back in the first place.