Keynesian Economics Evidently saved the world from economic meltdown

[Kevin_Kennedy]

it's easier for you to point a finger than prove your assertion, isn't it? Don't worry, bro.. your hair will grow back but you might have to go take shower to get that "fresh arson" smell off.

Well the article itself asserts that unemployment is still going up and that commodity prices continue to rise.

it's been what.. 6 months? Did you expect the trickle (HA!) to drip down universally on March 6? don't you think it's a bit premature to start crying about immediate results for no other reason than merely kicking dirt in the face of your opposing economic view? Unemployment will continue to go up as long as we insist on hemorrhaging jobs to cheap foreign labor. Nothing short of making you people cry about protectionism will solve that. It just seems that you all might want to re-evaluate your own theories before throwing a stone at anyone else this early in the game.

Well you can't have it both ways. Either the stimulus has saved the world from economic meltdown and it's time to scale it back as the OP asserts, or it hasn't had enough time to do its job. I'm simply pointing out that it clearly hasn't saved the world as of yet, and I certainly don't expect it to.

 

[Shogun]

Are you stupid enough to suggest that economic conditions CANNOT be controlled and that, of anyone, THESE people do not have the scope to see the results of said control?

If economic conditions could be controlled by mere politicians and bureaucrats, black markets wouldn't exist.

riiiiiiiight... because a marginal black market sure is why we see kids injecting morphine in school hallways.... you know how that black market is! It's almost as if... the gov controls... the sale of..

 

[Shogun]

So, it's your contention that a bunch of self-important political elites are going to admit that they have no more control over economic conditions than they have over the weather??

Oh yeah....that's right...Those assholes think that they can control the weather, too.

Are you stupid enough to suggest that economic conditions CANNOT be controlled and that, of anyone, THESE people do not have the scope to see the results of said control?

ROFLMNAO... Sweet Mother that's hilarious...

Uh NO... DUMBASS! The US Economy cannot be 'controlled'... PERIOD! No more than any other system which is comprised of TRILLIONS of independent elements and exchanges...

Just as those who claim to be able to control the atmosphere... can NOT control the weather.

But it is HYSTERICAL that you, an IMBECILE believes that there is some means to do so...

Now towards illustrating how stupid such a notion IS... The US Federal Reserve sought to implement CONTROL on the US Economy by interfering with the Mortgage industry... this to more 'fairly distribute' the means to home-ownership.

Now that ONE simple little act... caused a massive chain reaction which developed into a RUN on real-estate, driving the cost of real-estate beyond the means of the market to sustain such prices and the recent BUST of the entire mortgage industry and the relevant markets...

Now assuming you believe that the goal was NOT to drive the US economy into the tank; IF these idiots could CONTROL THE ECONOMY... There would not have been:
A) The ensuing run on real-estate and...
B) The predictable and resultant BUST and ...
C) The present RECESSION, which is heading directly towards a global DEPRESSION...

So where exactly is the evidence to which you're IMPLYING which suggests that the economy CAN BE CONTROLLED?

Why don't you go buy some nuclear grade plutonium and come back and tell me about how a market cannot be controlled, ok?

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

it's easier for you to point a finger than prove your assertion, isn't it? Don't worry, bro.. your hair will grow back but you might have to go take shower to get that "fresh arson" smell off.

Well the article itself asserts that unemployment is still going up and that commodity prices continue to rise.

it's been what.. 6 months? Did you expect the trickle (HA!) to drip down universally on March 6? don't you think it's a bit premature to start crying about immediate results for no other reason than merely kicking dirt in the face of your opposing economic view? Unemployment will continue to go up as long as we insist on hemorrhaging jobs to cheap foreign labor. Nothing short of making you people cry about protectionism will solve that. It just seems that you all might want to re-evaluate your own theories before throwing a stone at anyone else this early in the game.

ROFLMNAO... Did you just claim that the reason that US Unemployment is reising is because the US is exporting jobs to CHEAP FOREIGN LABOR?

LMNAO... Oh GOD! That is just PRECIOUS!

Now do you actually believe that; and if SO, this is based on WHAT? And does it not occur to you that the reason that the FOREIGN LABOR is so cheap is that massive REGULATORY costs heaped onto those businesses by your government?

 

[Shogun]

Well the article itself asserts that unemployment is still going up and that commodity prices continue to rise.

it's been what.. 6 months? Did you expect the trickle (HA!) to drip down universally on March 6? don't you think it's a bit premature to start crying about immediate results for no other reason than merely kicking dirt in the face of your opposing economic view? Unemployment will continue to go up as long as we insist on hemorrhaging jobs to cheap foreign labor. Nothing short of making you people cry about protectionism will solve that. It just seems that you all might want to re-evaluate your own theories before throwing a stone at anyone else this early in the game.

Well you can't have it both ways. Either the stimulus has saved the world from economic meltdown and it's time to scale it back as the OP asserts, or it hasn't had enough time to do its job. I'm simply pointing out that it clearly hasn't saved the world as of yet, and I certainly don't expect it to.

any economic strategy or benevolent result is not required to define itself by your black and white standard. Perhaps your criteria of success dooms such to fail regardless of it's result based on nothing more than how far removed it is, in practice, from your opinons on economics. If a meteorologist predicts rain because he SEES high and low pressure systems should you start watering your lawn because your rain stick says the drought will continue? Like I said, i think it's way to premature to start throwing stones for you people and, really, the horserace gate way you are all gnashing your teeth for a gotcha moment says more about your motivation to talk shit than it does about your desire for a solution that doesn't fit into your economic schema.

 

[Metternich]

Well, I was hoping for some economic debate but it seems that it has sort of devolved.

Ah, where is Agna-fellow when you need him?

 

[Shogun]

Well the article itself asserts that unemployment is still going up and that commodity prices continue to rise.

it's been what.. 6 months? Did you expect the trickle (HA!) to drip down universally on March 6? don't you think it's a bit premature to start crying about immediate results for no other reason than merely kicking dirt in the face of your opposing economic view? Unemployment will continue to go up as long as we insist on hemorrhaging jobs to cheap foreign labor. Nothing short of making you people cry about protectionism will solve that. It just seems that you all might want to re-evaluate your own theories before throwing a stone at anyone else this early in the game.

ROFLMNAO... Did you just claim that the reason that US Unemployment is reising is because the US is exporting jobs to CHEAP FOREIGN LABOR?

LMNAO... Oh GOD! That is just PRECIOUS!

Now do you actually believe that; and if SO, this is based on WHAT? And does it not occur to you that the reason that the FOREIGN LABOR is so cheap is that massive REGULATORY costs heaped onto those businesses by your government?

yes. that is exactly what i've implied. And, go talk to anyone who was formerly working in the production sector whose job was shipped to mexico if you need something a bit more solid than your serial blustering for evidence. Regulatory laws don't kill employment like moving a whole goddamn operation from Indiana to Juarez. Your tired ass rhetoric just doesn't impress me.

 

[Oddball]

Why don't you go buy some nuclear grade plutonium and come back and tell me about how a market cannot be controlled, ok?

It's way easier and more profitable to go get some cocaine or sell some DOT 3 brake fluid in Cuba for an exorbitant price.

Anyone with a halfway decent business sense, which obviously excludes you, can see that.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Are you stupid enough to suggest that economic conditions CANNOT be controlled and that, of anyone, THESE people do not have the scope to see the results of said control?

ROFLMNAO... Sweet Mother that's hilarious...

Uh NO... DUMBASS! The US Economy cannot be 'controlled'... PERIOD! No more than any other system which is comprised of TRILLIONS of independent elements and exchanges...

Just as those who claim to be able to control the atmosphere... can NOT control the weather.

But it is HYSTERICAL that you, an IMBECILE believes that there is some means to do so...

Now towards illustrating how stupid such a notion IS... The US Federal Reserve sought to implement CONTROL on the US Economy by interfering with the Mortgage industry... this to more 'fairly distribute' the means to home-ownership.

Now that ONE simple little act... caused a massive chain reaction which developed into a RUN on real-estate, driving the cost of real-estate beyond the means of the market to sustain such prices and the recent BUST of the entire mortgage industry and the relevant markets...

Now assuming you believe that the goal was NOT to drive the US economy into the tank; IF these idiots could CONTROL THE ECONOMY... There would not have been:
A) The ensuing run on real-estate and...
B) The predictable and resultant BUST and ...
C) The present RECESSION, which is heading directly towards a global DEPRESSION...

So where exactly is the evidence to which you're IMPLYING which suggests that the economy CAN BE CONTROLLED?

Why don't you go buy some nuclear grade plutonium and come back and tell me about how a market cannot be controlled, ok?

Well there ya have it kids... our in-house NAMBLA advocate feels, VERY STRONGLY, that the control of the sale of ONE Infinitesimal product category, is analogous to controlling: The ECONOMY.

Which is how these fools end up doing stupid things like interfering with the Mortage Industry and the means to produce sufficient supplies of Fuel; and trainwrecking the entire economy in the process.

They're fools... who sadly, are presently holding the wheel which directs the whole of that economy... which again points to my basis in reasoning wherein I conclude that: This isn't going to end well...

 

[Oddball]

Well, I was hoping for some economic debate but it seems that it has sort of devolved.

Ah, where is Agna-fellow when you need him?

There is little to debate here.

As was already pointed out, crediting Keynesian economics for "saving the day" makes as much sense as crediting the arsonist for putting out the fire.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

it's been what.. 6 months? Did you expect the trickle (HA!) to drip down universally on March 6? don't you think it's a bit premature to start crying about immediate results for no other reason than merely kicking dirt in the face of your opposing economic view? Unemployment will continue to go up as long as we insist on hemorrhaging jobs to cheap foreign labor. Nothing short of making you people cry about protectionism will solve that. It just seems that you all might want to re-evaluate your own theories before throwing a stone at anyone else this early in the game.

Well you can't have it both ways. Either the stimulus has saved the world from economic meltdown and it's time to scale it back as the OP asserts, or it hasn't had enough time to do its job. I'm simply pointing out that it clearly hasn't saved the world as of yet, and I certainly don't expect it to.

any economic strategy or benevolent result is not required to define itself by your black and white standard. Perhaps your criteria of success dooms such to fail regardless of it's result based on nothing more than how far removed it is, in practice, from your opinons on economics. If a meteorologist predicts rain because he SEES high and low pressure systems should you start watering your lawn because your rain stick says the drought will continue? Like I said, i think it's way to premature to start throwing stones for you people and, really, the horserace gate way you are all gnashing your teeth for a gotcha moment says more about your motivation to talk shit than it does about your desire for a solution that doesn't fit into your economic schema.

Red Dawn created a thread called "Keynesian Economics Evidently saved the world from economic meltdown" and many of us came in and pointed out that the recession clearly hasn't ended. Meaning that Keynesian economics hasn't saved the world from anything. It's true that I don't believe Keynesian economics can help at all, but even if I'm a Keynesian I have to look at the fact that things are still getting worse and deduce that claiming victory is a bit premature.

 

[Oddball]

Red Dawn created a thread called "Keynesian Economics Evidently saved the world from economic meltdown" and many of us came in and pointed out that the recession clearly hasn't ended. Meaning that Keynesian economics hasn't saved the world from anything. It's true that I don't believe Keynesian economics can help at all, but even if I'm a Keynesian I have to look at the fact that things are still getting worse and deduce that claiming victory is a bit premature.

Being an authoritarian central planner means that it's never too soon to claim victory for yourself.

 

[Shogun]

Why don't you go buy some nuclear grade plutonium and come back and tell me about how a market cannot be controlled, ok?

It's way easier and more profitable to go get some cocaine or sell some DOT 3 brake fluid in Cuba for an exorbitant price.

Anyone with a halfway decent business sense, which obviously excludes you, can see that.

cocaine isn't going to nuke a third of any small state. Anyone with half a functioning brain won't avoid the examples of nuclear grade plutonium when crying about how no market can be controlled.

for real, buddy... you probably shouldn't talk about what people with a halfway descent business sense would say this side of our free market fiasco.

 

[Shogun]

ROFLMNAO... Sweet Mother that's hilarious...

Uh NO... DUMBASS! The US Economy cannot be 'controlled'... PERIOD! No more than any other system which is comprised of TRILLIONS of independent elements and exchanges...

Just as those who claim to be able to control the atmosphere... can NOT control the weather.

But it is HYSTERICAL that you, an IMBECILE believes that there is some means to do so...

Now towards illustrating how stupid such a notion IS... The US Federal Reserve sought to implement CONTROL on the US Economy by interfering with the Mortgage industry... this to more 'fairly distribute' the means to home-ownership.

Now that ONE simple little act... caused a massive chain reaction which developed into a RUN on real-estate, driving the cost of real-estate beyond the means of the market to sustain such prices and the recent BUST of the entire mortgage industry and the relevant markets...

Now assuming you believe that the goal was NOT to drive the US economy into the tank; IF these idiots could CONTROL THE ECONOMY... There would not have been:
A) The ensuing run on real-estate and...
B) The predictable and resultant BUST and ...
C) The present RECESSION, which is heading directly towards a global DEPRESSION...

So where exactly is the evidence to which you're IMPLYING which suggests that the economy CAN BE CONTROLLED?

Why don't you go buy some nuclear grade plutonium and come back and tell me about how a market cannot be controlled, ok?

Well there ya have it kids... our in-house NAMBLA advocate feels, VERY STRONGLY, that the control of the sale of ONE Infinitesimal product category, is analogous to controlling: The ECONOMY.

Which is how these fools end up doing stupid things like interfering with the Mortage Industry and the means to produce sufficient supplies of Fuel; and trainwrecking the entire economy in the process.

They're fools... who sadly, are presently holding the wheel which directs the whole of that economy... which again points to my basis in reasoning wherein I conclude that: This isn't going to end well...

It's an example of a controlled market. Hell, we control our markets from agriculture to entertainment all day long so, really, it's no sweat off of my balls if you post as many silly little googled images as necessary to fool your ego, guy.

Hell, you think WE are fools? Guess what we think of you, fool. The difference being that we already have a good 20 years to show for your economic failure. so, really, no one gives a shit about your participation anymore, greenspan.

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

I think they have realized that it is counterproductive, and the thing everyone was afraid of has happened already.

.

So, your contention in the economic ministers and governments of the G-8 are engaged in a massive conspiracy, and are lying about the stimulus apparently helping to avert a meltdown? That instead of telling the truth, in your view, that the stimulus was a collasal failure, they are fabricating a story about dialing down the stimulus once a sustained recovery is achieved through stimulus?.

That's your contention?

That's my contention... and that contention is based on the certainty that NOT ONE CENT of ANY STIMULUS SPENDING can be attributed to a SINGLE Positive Economic condition or development... NONE of the 'businesses' which were presumably 'saved' were essential to global commerce... NOT ONE... All the stimulus spending did was to remove the accountability inherent in the market from companies who had used EGREGEOUSLY BAD JUDGMENT in following leftist policy which COULD ONLY LEAD TO THE ECONOMIC CATASTROPHE WHICH HAS NOW BEEN REALIZED...

Had NO MONEY been spent to cover those losses, those companies would have gone busted, their assets sold for pennies on the dollar to other companies who were in a position to capitalize in those bargains... which would then have been RE-MARKETED to new buyers and whereupon the markets would have long SINCE recovered.

The only thing that the Keynsian work has done, is what it always does and that is to set aside responsibility and accountability, forstall and prolong the natural order... of the cyclical recovery...

 

[Shogun]

Well, I was hoping for some economic debate but it seems that it has sort of devolved.

Ah, where is Agna-fellow when you need him?

There is little to debate here.

As was already pointed out, crediting Keynesian economics for "saving the day" makes as much sense as crediting the arsonist for putting out the fire.

CAPTAIN HYPERBOLE TO THE RESCUUUUUUUE!





you assume that our current economic situation is the product of your resented economic philosophy. Shocker. I guess this is why you have to whip out the non sequiters and rhetorical bullshit in light of the failure of free market capitalism.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Well, I was hoping for some economic debate but it seems that it has sort of devolved.

Ah, where is Agna-fellow when you need him?

There is little to debate here.

As was already pointed out, crediting Keynesian economics for "saving the day" makes as much sense as crediting the arsonist for putting out the fire.

CAPTAIN HYPERBOLE TO THE RESCUUUUUUUE!





you assume that our current economic situation is the product of your resented economic philosophy. Shocker. I guess this is why you have to whip out the non sequiters and rhetorical bullshit in light of the failure of free market capitalism.

If we had free market capitalism the Federal Reserve wouldn't be able to control the supply of money and artificially set interest rates, which is the main cause of our downturn.

 

[Shogun]

Well you can't have it both ways. Either the stimulus has saved the world from economic meltdown and it's time to scale it back as the OP asserts, or it hasn't had enough time to do its job. I'm simply pointing out that it clearly hasn't saved the world as of yet, and I certainly don't expect it to.

any economic strategy or benevolent result is not required to define itself by your black and white standard. Perhaps your criteria of success dooms such to fail regardless of it's result based on nothing more than how far removed it is, in practice, from your opinons on economics. If a meteorologist predicts rain because he SEES high and low pressure systems should you start watering your lawn because your rain stick says the drought will continue? Like I said, i think it's way to premature to start throwing stones for you people and, really, the horserace gate way you are all gnashing your teeth for a gotcha moment says more about your motivation to talk shit than it does about your desire for a solution that doesn't fit into your economic schema.

Red Dawn created a thread called "Keynesian Economics Evidently saved the world from economic meltdown" and many of us came in and pointed out that the recession clearly hasn't ended. Meaning that Keynesian economics hasn't saved the world from anything. It's true that I don't believe Keynesian economics can help at all, but even if I'm a Keynesian I have to look at the fact that things are still getting worse and deduce that claiming victory is a bit premature.

YET. that's the mitigating factor that you seem stuck on. Would you also say that seatbelts are useless if they don't save your live after driving around the block? Again, you assume that some magical economic genie should ahve been unleashed to parade around a sign that says "See, Look At Me Now" when, clearly, this is a ridiculous standard. Hell, how long has American been waiting for Nafta to produce what free marketers were busy insisting upon a decade ago? Hell, what is the timeframe of free market capitalism if your standard here is 6 months?

 

[PubliusInfinitum]

Why don't you go buy some nuclear grade plutonium and come back and tell me about how a market cannot be controlled, ok?

It's way easier and more profitable to go get some cocaine or sell some DOT 3 brake fluid in Cuba for an exorbitant price.

Anyone with a halfway decent business sense, which obviously excludes you, can see that.

cocaine isn't going to nuke a third of any small state. Anyone with half a functioning brain won't avoid the examples of nuclear grade plutonium when crying about how no market can be controlled.

for real, buddy... you probably shouldn't talk about what people with a halfway descent business sense would say this side of our free market fiasco.

Of course that would be a VERY STRONG point, IF someone had argued that a given element of THE MARKET can't be controlled... Sadly... for you, our in-house advocate of adult-child sex... no one has made such a claim.

And while you know this, it's understandable that you'd run to this asinine pendantic rationalization to defend your now long discredited point.

 

[Shogun]

There is little to debate here.

As was already pointed out, crediting Keynesian economics for "saving the day" makes as much sense as crediting the arsonist for putting out the fire.

CAPTAIN HYPERBOLE TO THE RESCUUUUUUUE!





you assume that our current economic situation is the product of your resented economic philosophy. Shocker. I guess this is why you have to whip out the non sequiters and rhetorical bullshit in light of the failure of free market capitalism.

If we had free market capitalism the Federal Reserve wouldn't be able to control the supply of money and artificially set interest rates, which is the main cause of our downturn.

...according to your opinion. I'm more of a "Can't eat whats not on the table" sort regarding the origin of this economic meltdown. How many fluxuating interest rate home loans could have been paid as long as people still had a job that wasn't sent to discount labor land? free market theories don't impress me when we see how the failure of outsourcing has trickled UP.