Kemp Questioned in Oil-for-Food Probe

[5stringJeff]

I see "j" is at it again...

I think a little analysis of the article needs to take place.



It says that Vincent contacted Kemp, not that Kemp contacted Vincent. Now, is one automatically guilty because somebody "contacted" them? It does not say that Kemp did anything. Hell, it doesn't even IMPLY that he did. How do we know that Kemp didn't tell Vincent to go fuck himself? We don't.

I certainly didn't try to imply any guilt on the part of Kemp. I just thought it was interesting that he was involved in the first place.

 

[CSM]

I read the article but what I understood is that France is guilty of the same things as the US, prior to the gufl war in dealing weapons and all. I'm not going to talk about exports and all of oil. We we're just talking of weapons. All I see is that:"In addition French companies have signed contracts with Iraq worth more than $150 million that are suspected of being linked to its military operations." It doesn't say it was really just arms but even if it was, thats very very far from the billions you were talking about and still doesn't explain why france would back out of a war under the assumption of dealing arms. Maybee it did more arm dealing than said in this article but I'd like to see it written. As for interests in oil and all, well that kind of makes sence though, like the US now obviously is going to have oil contracts in Irak for years to come. It is a shame though that some of those contracts involed the oil for food program. I'm not goint o deny that.
A case can be made for past French interests in oil, can one be made for future US interests in iraki oil? Not an attack, just a question?

SOME PERSPECTIVE:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040908-123000-1796r.htm

EXCERPT:

Made in France
The war in Iraq, which began March 19, 2003, provided disturbing evidence that France's treacherous dealings come at a steep cost to the United States.
On April 8 came the downing of Air Force Maj. Jim Ewald's A-10 Thunderbolt fighter over Baghdad and the discovery that it was a French-made Roland missile that brought down the American pilot and destroyed a $13 million aircraft. Ewald, one of the first U.S. pilots shot down in the war, was rescued by members of the Army's 54th Engineer Battalion who saw him parachute to earth not far from the wreckage.
Army intelligence concluded that the French had sold the missile to the Iraqis within the past year, despite French denials.
A week after Ewald's A-10 was downed, an Army team searching Iraqi weapons depots at the Baghdad airport discovered caches of French-made missiles. One anti-aircraft missile, among a cache of 51 Roland-2s from a French-German manufacturing partnership, bore a label indicating that the batch was produced just months earlier.
In May, Army intelligence found a stack of blank French passports in an Iraqi ministry, confirming what U.S. intelligence already had determined: The French had helped Iraqi war criminals escape from coalition forces — and therefore justice.
Then, there were French-made trucks and radios and the deadly grenade launchers, known as RPGs, with French-made night sights. Saddam loyalists used them to kill American soldiers long after the toppling of the dictator's regime.
The intelligence team sent to find Iraqi weapons also discovered documents outlining covert Iraqi weapons procurement leading up to the war. The CIA, however, refused to make public the documents on assistance provided by France or by other so-called allies of the United States.

ANOTHER EXCERPT:

A close call
One of the most frightening examples of how the militants put French weapons to use against the Americans came Oct. 26, 2003. That morning, at about 6 o'clock, they bombarded the Rashid Hotel in Baghdad with French missiles.
The French rockets nearly killed Wolfowitz, whom Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has called "the brains" of the Pentagon.
The deputy defense secretary had just gotten dressed in his room that Sunday morning when a car stopped several hundred yards from the hotel. It dropped off what appeared to be one of the blue electrical generators that were common in the power-starved Iraqi capital. The driver stayed just long enough to open a panel on the end of the metal box that was pointing upward toward the hotel.
The car sped off. Minutes later, a pod of 40 artillery rockets set off by remote control began firing at the hotel, their trails leaving sparks as they flew. The rockets hit one floor below where Wolfowitz and about a dozen aides and reporters were staying.
One rocket slammed into the room of Army Lt. Col. Charles H. Buehring, a public-affairs officer. The explosion hit Buehring, 40, in the head. A reporter discovered him and tried to help, but the Fayetteville, N.C., resident died a short time later.
In all, between eight and 10 missiles hit the hotel. The casualties might have been higher, and included Wolfowitz, if the improvised rocket launcher had fired all the missiles.
Because of a malfunction, 11 failed to go off.

There are many,many articles on the Internet regarding French companies (and the French government) dealing with Iraq AFTER the sanctions were imposed. The point is, Iraq OWED France billions of dollars for a lot of things. Once Saddam's regime is gone, who does France collect the money from? On top of that, as illustrated above, the weapons sold by France AFTER the UN resolutions, were used against American troops.

 

[j07950]

SOME PERSPECTIVE:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20040908-123000-1796r.htm

EXCERPT:

Made in France
The war in Iraq, which began March 19, 2003, provided disturbing evidence that France's treacherous dealings come at a steep cost to the United States.
On April 8 came the downing of Air Force Maj. Jim Ewald's A-10 Thunderbolt fighter over Baghdad and the discovery that it was a French-made Roland missile that brought down the American pilot and destroyed a $13 million aircraft. Ewald, one of the first U.S. pilots shot down in the war, was rescued by members of the Army's 54th Engineer Battalion who saw him parachute to earth not far from the wreckage.
Army intelligence concluded that the French had sold the missile to the Iraqis within the past year, despite French denials.
A week after Ewald's A-10 was downed, an Army team searching Iraqi weapons depots at the Baghdad airport discovered caches of French-made missiles. One anti-aircraft missile, among a cache of 51 Roland-2s from a French-German manufacturing partnership, bore a label indicating that the batch was produced just months earlier.
In May, Army intelligence found a stack of blank French passports in an Iraqi ministry, confirming what U.S. intelligence already had determined: The French had helped Iraqi war criminals escape from coalition forces — and therefore justice.
Then, there were French-made trucks and radios and the deadly grenade launchers, known as RPGs, with French-made night sights. Saddam loyalists used them to kill American soldiers long after the toppling of the dictator's regime.
The intelligence team sent to find Iraqi weapons also discovered documents outlining covert Iraqi weapons procurement leading up to the war. The CIA, however, refused to make public the documents on assistance provided by France or by other so-called allies of the United States.

ANOTHER EXCERPT:

A close call
One of the most frightening examples of how the militants put French weapons to use against the Americans came Oct. 26, 2003. That morning, at about 6 o'clock, they bombarded the Rashid Hotel in Baghdad with French missiles.
The French rockets nearly killed Wolfowitz, whom Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has called "the brains" of the Pentagon.
The deputy defense secretary had just gotten dressed in his room that Sunday morning when a car stopped several hundred yards from the hotel. It dropped off what appeared to be one of the blue electrical generators that were common in the power-starved Iraqi capital. The driver stayed just long enough to open a panel on the end of the metal box that was pointing upward toward the hotel.
The car sped off. Minutes later, a pod of 40 artillery rockets set off by remote control began firing at the hotel, their trails leaving sparks as they flew. The rockets hit one floor below where Wolfowitz and about a dozen aides and reporters were staying.
One rocket slammed into the room of Army Lt. Col. Charles H. Buehring, a public-affairs officer. The explosion hit Buehring, 40, in the head. A reporter discovered him and tried to help, but the Fayetteville, N.C., resident died a short time later.
In all, between eight and 10 missiles hit the hotel. The casualties might have been higher, and included Wolfowitz, if the improvised rocket launcher had fired all the missiles.
Because of a malfunction, 11 failed to go off.

There are many,many articles on the Internet regarding French companies (and the French government) dealing with Iraq AFTER the sanctions were imposed. The point is, Iraq OWED France billions of dollars for a lot of things. Once Saddam's regime is gone, who does France collect the money from? On top of that, as illustrated above, the weapons sold by France AFTER the UN resolutions, were used against American troops.

Interesting. I'm happy I've read it. But saying the French, the french...kind of implies the government. But can it be safely said that the government was direclty behind all these transactions (of which we don't really get a number by the way)? I mean couldn't these weapons provided have been without the governments knowledge? Also, are these weapons directly from france, could they not have been bought by another country and then sold to Irak. I'm not finding excuses but it doesn't really prove that the french government was behind it. Maybee some companies, obviously. I just wounder about the governments involvment, post-gulf war.
Anyway, gotta go, I'll be back in a little while.

 

[CSM]

Interesting. I'm happy I've read it. But saying the French, the french...kind of implies the government. But can it be safely said that the government was direclty behind all these transactions (of which we don't really get a number by the way)? I mean couldn't these weapons provided have been without the governments knowledge? Also, are these weapons directly from france, could they not have been bought by another country and then sold to Irak. I'm not finding excuses but it doesn't really prove that the french government was behind it. Maybee some companies, obviously. I just wounder about the governments involvment, post-gulf war.
Anyway, gotta go, I'll be back in a little while.

French arms companies are notoriously controlled by the French government. It is difficult to imagine that such transactions were hidden from the government.

Please understand, my intent is not to bash the French government or the French people; my intent is to explain WHY I PERSONALLY hold some resentment towards the French government. What disturbs me even more is the tendency of the French people to ignore the evidence while maintaining what I view as a hypocritical stance towards the US as evidenced by some of the posters on this board.

 

[freeandfun1]

I mean couldn't these weapons provided have been without the governments knowledge? Also, are these weapons directly from france, could they not have been bought by another country and then sold to Irak.

Sure it is possible, but I export a lot of defense related products from America to overseas countries and I can tell you, it is NOT an easy process. First off, we have to get an end-user's certificate (to prevent transshipments), then we have to get an export license, and then when we finally ship, we have to complete an export declaration. I would hope France has similar programs in place.

 

[j07950]

Yeah I don't know. Well if the government was involved can it be and will it be proven? I'm not against that if it indeed was involved.

 

[CSM]

Yeah I don't know. Well if the government was involved can it be and will it be proven? I'm not against that if it indeed was involved.

I guess the crux of the matter for me becomes: Are other governments investigating as vigorously as the US is and willing to prosecute in this matter? While the story that started this thread is/was big news, I do not see similar stories from other nations regarding ANY investigation into the situation. It's as if the rest of the world is saying..."see, it was the Americans themselves; no need for us to look at ourselves. We have the Americans to blame yet again!"

 

[j07950]

I guess the crux of the matter for me becomes: Are other governments investigating as vigorously as the US is and willing to prosecute in this matter? While the story that started this thread is/was big news, I do not see similar stories from other nations regarding ANY investigation into the situation. It's as if the rest of the world is saying..."see, it was the Americans themselves; no need for us to look at ourselves. We have the Americans to blame yet again!"

I don't know. I think that this is recent for the US though. Everyone has pointed at France for a while now, I know the government has investigated into it, to what extent I don't know, now is it enough? Who knows. I'm guessing it won't all be discovered, whether in France, in Russia or in the US. I do hope it will.

 

[freeandfun1]

I don't know. I think that this is recent for the US though. Everyone has pointed at France for a while now, I know the government has investigated into it, to what extent I don't know, now is it enough? Who knows. I'm guessing it won't all be discovered, whether in France, in Russia or in the US. I do hope it will.

In many ways, you are right. This is recent in the US. A matter-of-fact, since Bush took office in 2001, there have been a lot of corruption uncovered. Kinda contradicts those that claim he is get'n greased.

Most corruption seems to have taken place under the darling of Europe - Clinton. Is there any correlation in Europes love for Clinton and corruption? Me thinks so!