Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[ClosedCaption]

I acknowledge you answered, just going for clarity. I guess that's a bad thing......to you

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I acknowledge you answered, just going for clarity. I guess that's a bad thing......to you

You ask for proof that gun control laws don't work, I gave you three specific examples. Yet you insist on doubling down on what does not work. There is compelling evidence that in this Country lax gun control laws, allowing concealed carry and passing self defense laws all bring murders and crime down. There is no evidence that stronger restrictions on law abiding citizens vis vie guns will have any other effect then increased crime rates.

 

[Bern80]

It's a misnomer to believe that if gun laws had been non-existent that there would have been shooting back. Likely not in Columbine, Sandyhook, VA Tech, etc...

As for the question

It's a very long term proposition but the only way to effectively attack the problem is to begin to attack the supply and you do that by decreasing the demand.


Tax the holy crap out of firearms and ammunition. Pass laws making it a requirement that gun owners carry liabiltiy insurance per weapon--very expensive.

Also, make all gun crimes federal crimes and steep minimum sentences for armed robbery. You use a gun, you're going away for 20 years; no parole, no time off for good behavior, soyanara.

Basically make firearms the equivalent of cigarettes.

As stated it's a long-term proposition but the sooner we get started...

That's just incredibly stupid.

Deal with the fucking criminals not everyone else.

Mandatory minimum 15 years in prison for ANY crime (felony) committed while in posession of a firearm. Life if the weapon is stolen.

I like your idea about punishment.

We have a bigger problem than that though... What's your idea?

Yes we do. One that doesn't come even close to being addressed by getting rid of guns.

 

[Pheonixops]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

It would be virtually impossible to keep guns from criminals, unless they totally outlawed firearms of all types, confiscated them, and set up a virtual police state. The criminal element would probably be the only ones armed after that through black market sales. So in short, NO THANK YOU. We have enough, if not too many "gun laws" on the books already.

That's my Liberal answer...................

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Where did you go Closed Caption?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Well since the debate seems to have dried up guess I will go play a game, be back in a bit to see if it resumes.

 

[Ropey]

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

Liberal mindspeak says that if you take the guns from everyone, then the criminals will not find any.



The criminals will always find guns. I mean, that's why they're criminals.

 

[Pheonixops]

A good first step is registration of all firearms and background checks on ALL gun sales. Even between private parties. This will allow responsible gun owners to continue to own anything they want but will help place responsibility on to people who sell guns to people who shouldn't have them or end up using them for murder/crime.

We can certainly start there.

Would you be in favor of "registration of all alcohol owners and background checks on ALL alcohol sales."? There were 11,078 gun murders and 10,228 drunk driving deaths in 2010. That's a pretty close statistic though both numbers were down. I understand that you want to keep gun deaths down and I'm sure people have a good counter-argument like; "Well people have to register their motor vehicles.", but I see it as a slippery slope especially with something that is part of our Bill of Rights.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

Liberal mindspeak says that if you take the guns from everyone, then the criminals will not find any.



The criminals will always find guns. I mean, that's why they're criminals.

seems that doesnt work in the great gun ban utopia of the Uk

 

[jon_berzerk]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

It would be virtually impossible to keep guns from criminals, unless they totally outlawed firearms of all types, confiscated them, and set up a virtual police state. The criminal element would probably be the only ones armed after that through black market sales. So in short, NO THANK YOU. We have enough, if not too many "gun laws" on the books already.

That's my Liberal answer...................

no probabilities they would be the only ones armed

 

[Ropey]

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

Liberal mindspeak says that if you take the guns from everyone, then the criminals will not find any.



The criminals will always find guns. I mean, that's why they're criminals.

seems that doesnt work in the great gun ban utopia of the Uk

Yep. They don't even allow most of their police to have guns.

The deaths of two female police constables have brought into focus the unarmed status of most British police. Why does Britain hold firm against issuing guns to officers on the beat?

Still, the criminals will find their guns even if the law abiding civilians and police don't have them.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398

 

[Missourian]

Now you're boring me...please..try harder to be more clever

Isn't the purpose of a "murder law" to outline the PUNISHMENT for committing murder?

Here is the Missouri Statute...

[SIZE=+1]First degree murder, penalty--person under sixteen years of age not to receive death penalty. [/SIZE] 565.020.



1. A person commits the crime of murder in the first degree if he knowingly causes the death of another person after deliberation upon the matter.


2. Murder in the first degree is a class A felony, and the punishment shall be either death or imprisonment for life without eligibility for probation or parole, or release except by act of the governor; except that, if a person has not reached his sixteenth birthday at the time of the commission of the crime, the punishment shall be imprisonment for life without eligibility for probation or parole, or release except by act of the governor.

It's purpose is to define murder and outline the punishment.

It does not keep people from committing murder, though an argument may be made that the stricter the outlined punishment, the greater a SECONDARY deterrent value out said punishment may be realized.

GUN CONTROL laws on the other hand, has an entirely different purpose.

Their purpose is neither to define a crime or outline a punishment.

Their PRIMARY purpose is to reduce crime.

Gun control advocates are pushing more gun control laws on the basis of reducing these mass shootings.

If gun control laws are failing at preventing or reducing mass shootings, then advocating more of the same, like expanded background checks, is ludicrous in the extreme.

So laws work but gun laws wont work because you say so?

Nope...they don't work because they don't work.

Here is the liberal plan.

Based on all these mass shooting perpetrated by guys who passed background checks, our solution is to expand the background checks that didn't stop these guys from buying NEW guns from FFLs to private sales.

How stupid or deceitful does one have to be to even attempt to sell that bullshit to the American People?

What's the definition of insanity again?

I can't remember a mass shooting where the shooter used a gun that they purchased from a private party.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Liberal mindspeak says that if you take the guns from everyone, then the criminals will not find any.



The criminals will always find guns. I mean, that's why they're criminals.

seems that doesnt work in the great gun ban utopia of the Uk

Yep. They don't even allow most of their police to have guns.

The deaths of two female police constables have brought into focus the unarmed status of most British police. Why does Britain hold firm against issuing guns to officers on the beat?

Still, the criminals will find their guns even if the law abiding civilians and police don't have them.

BBC News - Why British police don?t have guns

Yep. They don't even allow most of their police to have guns.

oddly since the gun bans the criminals have gotten so violent

that the UK police or at least special units have become armed

they never had to be before the ban

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I was waiting for Closedcaption to claim that DC, Chicago and NYC all have gun violence cause their neighbors don't bar guns.

I would then have pointed out that England which is basically on an Island can not control guns even though they banned them. That Russia has a super strict gun control and the highest murder and violence rate around, that South Africa bans firearms and still has a lot of murder and firearms violence and that Mexico bans all private ownership and is awash in gang shootings beheading and violence.

But you guys jumped the gun so to speak, LOL.

 

[tehmouser]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

Every one should have guns

 

[candycorn]

That's just incredibly stupid.

Deal with the fucking criminals not everyone else.

Mandatory minimum 15 years in prison for ANY crime (felony) committed while in posession of a firearm. Life if the weapon is stolen.

I like your idea about punishment.

We have a bigger problem than that though... What's your idea?

Yes we do. One that doesn't come even close to being addressed by getting rid of guns.

Well, let's hear your idea.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I like your idea about punishment.

We have a bigger problem than that though... What's your idea?

Yes we do. One that doesn't come even close to being addressed by getting rid of guns.

Well, let's hear your idea.

Enforce the laws we have. It is already illegal for mentally unstable people that are adjudged thus from having weapons. No one wants to do the paperwork or legal work to get the obviously crazy properly adjudged that way.

Improve mental health access and find someway to change the US perception that mental illness is not to be talked about or discussed.

 

[candycorn]

Yes we do. One that doesn't come even close to being addressed by getting rid of guns.

Well, let's hear your idea.

Enforce the laws we have. It is already illegal for mentally unstable people that are adjudged thus from having weapons. No one wants to do the paperwork or legal work to get the obviously crazy properly adjudged that way.

Improve mental health access and find someway to change the US perception that mental illness is not to be talked about or discussed.

Good idea.

Just out of curiosity how do you get around Dr./Patient confidentiality? Not a loaded question; just wanting to to know how you do it.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Well, let's hear your idea.

Enforce the laws we have. It is already illegal for mentally unstable people that are adjudged thus from having weapons. No one wants to do the paperwork or legal work to get the obviously crazy properly adjudged that way.

Improve mental health access and find someway to change the US perception that mental illness is not to be talked about or discussed.

Good idea.

Just out of curiosity how do you get around Dr./Patient confidentiality? Not a loaded question; just wanting to to know how you do it.

how do you get around Dr./Patient confidentiality

the courts

with in these matters it is usually closed to the public or sealed

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Well, let's hear your idea.

Enforce the laws we have. It is already illegal for mentally unstable people that are adjudged thus from having weapons. No one wants to do the paperwork or legal work to get the obviously crazy properly adjudged that way.

Improve mental health access and find someway to change the US perception that mental illness is not to be talked about or discussed.

Good idea.

Just out of curiosity how do you get around Dr./Patient confidentiality? Not a loaded question; just wanting to to know how you do it.

You don't have to, the Recent shooter was obviously sick and the cops knew it. from his behavior and his statements. There should have been something done to address his situation either by the local police or the navy.

As for your doctor BY LAW they are to report any threats you present to local authorities. Statements actions or things you display to them that make them believe you are a threat to self or others MUST be reported as far as I know that is the law in all States.