Kamala Harris Denies Govt-Run Single Payer is 'Socialism'

[TheProgressivePatriot]

I'm talking about Annual and lifetime caps on coverage, and denial of coverage for pre existing conditions. Now, What are YOU talking about?!

How is that "letting" people die? As long as they are clear about the terms up front, how is that cheating anyone in any way?

How is it not letting people die? They may know what the policy says, but they don't know how sick they will get , or don't believe that they will. Then it happens and the (real) death panels issue a death sentence.

No, they follow the letter of the insurance policy. Insurance won't work if they don't do that. They're no more responsible for "letting" someone die that any of us.

Interesting how you, on one hand say that you don't trust the insurance execs and at the same time, your an apologist for them and deny that they put profits over people.

I'm doing neither. I'm not an apologist for the insurance companies, and I'm not denying they put "profits over people". I'm explaining to you how insurance works. It's not a charity. It's not socialism. It's not your caretaker. Asking insurance companies to fill those roles is dumb.

I don't expect it to be charitable. More of a necessary evil. I know how insurance works. First of all you have to have a large enough pool of people paying into it, including those who may never use it, to cover payouts, and yes profits. Sure, we can quibble about whether or not it's socialism, and people can bitch about paying for other peoples illnesses, but someday you might be on of those other people. If large numbers of people are not covered, you will have more medical related bankruptcies and more people being sick and a drain on the economy instead of being productive . None of that is good for the nation.

So tell us, what is your solution for the health care system?

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Kamala Harris believes that all Jamaicans are drug addicts.

 

[dblack]

How is that "letting" people die? As long as they are clear about the terms up front, how is that cheating anyone in any way?

How is it not letting people die? They may know what the policy says, but they don't know how sick they will get , or don't believe that they will. Then it happens and the (real) death panels issue a death sentence.

No, they follow the letter of the insurance policy. Insurance won't work if they don't do that. They're no more responsible for "letting" someone die that any of us.

Interesting how you, on one hand say that you don't trust the insurance execs and at the same time, your an apologist for them and deny that they put profits over people.

I'm doing neither. I'm not an apologist for the insurance companies, and I'm not denying they put "profits over people". I'm explaining to you how insurance works. It's not a charity. It's not socialism. It's not your caretaker. Asking insurance companies to fill those roles is dumb.

I don't expect it to be charitable. More of a necessary evil.

There's nothing necessary about it. You've watched too many insurance company ads.

I know how insurance works. First of all you have to have a large enough pool of ...

That's just group insurance. Which isn't insurance at all. It's employer-provided health care.

So tell us, what is your solution for the health care system?

Leave people alone and let them deal with their own health care issues however they see fit.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

How is that "letting" people die? As long as they are clear about the terms up front, how is that cheating anyone in any way?

How is it not letting people die? They may know what the policy says, but they don't know how sick they will get , or don't believe that they will. Then it happens and the (real) death panels issue a death sentence.

No, they follow the letter of the insurance policy. Insurance won't work if they don't do that. They're no more responsible for "letting" someone die that any of us.

Interesting how you, on one hand say that you don't trust the insurance execs and at the same time, your an apologist for them and deny that they put profits over people.

I'm doing neither. I'm not an apologist for the insurance companies, and I'm not denying they put "profits over people". I'm explaining to you how insurance works. It's not a charity. It's not socialism. It's not your caretaker. Asking insurance companies to fill those roles is dumb.

Hmmm, don't insurance companies practice the very concept of socialism within it's program offered ??? Otherwise a pool or pools are created, and in these pools everyone is gathered together in order to take care of each other by way of the insurance staff managing the pool for it's customers.. Otherwise, (the healthiest then paying into the pool takes care of the sick who are placed into the pool as well right) ????

You know socialism may not exist in everything, but it sure does exist in this country, and it is found in operation in government, in companies, and in corporations through in and through out.

It's just that if it becomes an unhealthy dosage as with any drug, then it kills it's host or causes an eventual self destruct mode or countdown to begin.

So it is arguably socialism. So what? It's not a four letter word. All this whining about socialism is ridiculous. Yes health people take care of sick people just like good drivers subsidize bad ones. Health insurance ultimately benefits everyone because we will have a healthier and more financially secure society ….and remember, someday you might be one of those sick people. So I will ask you now , what health care system do you prefer?

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

How is it not letting people die? They may know what the policy says, but they don't know how sick they will get , or don't believe that they will. Then it happens and the (real) death panels issue a death sentence.

No, they follow the letter of the insurance policy. Insurance won't work if they don't do that. They're no more responsible for "letting" someone die that any of us.

Interesting how you, on one hand say that you don't trust the insurance execs and at the same time, your an apologist for them and deny that they put profits over people.

I'm doing neither. I'm not an apologist for the insurance companies, and I'm not denying they put "profits over people". I'm explaining to you how insurance works. It's not a charity. It's not socialism. It's not your caretaker. Asking insurance companies to fill those roles is dumb.

Hmmm, don't insurance companies practice the very concept of socialism within it's program offered ??? Otherwise a pool or pools are created, and in these pools everyone is gathered together in order to take care of each other by way of the insurance staff managing the pool for it's customers.. Otherwise, (the healthiest then paying into the pool takes care of the sick who are placed into the pool as well right) ????

You know socialism may not exist in everything, but it sure does exist in this country, and it is found in operation in government, in companies, and in corporations through in and through out.

It's just that if it becomes an unhealthy dosage as with any drug, then it kills it's host or causes an eventual self destruct mode or countdown to begin.

That a backward way of looking at it. Insurance pools are not created with the idea of health people paying for the unhealthy.

Insurance pools, look at the probable risk, and compare that risk to possible loss, and then charge a relative premium to offset that risk.

It has nothing to do with socialism. It is a free-market voluntary exchange, where a company charges premiums, to take on the burden of the risk.

Moreover, your comparison would only apply to specifically company insurance policies, which only exist because the government created such a system.

In a free market insurance system, no 'pool' exists. For example, I have private insurance right now. There is no 'pool' that I am in. I simply have a policy that covers just me.

Which is the way it should be. Everyone should have private non-employer provided insurance.

I don't think so. If you have individual insurance, you're part of an insurance pool. Some of your premiums will go to cover others making claims and some will go to profit.

 

[TheProgressivePatriot]

Leave people alone and let them deal with their own health care issues however they see fit.

That is not a solution. It's a death sentence for many. Chronic , preventable illness for others, and a drain on society. Not to mention selfish.

 

[McRocket]

So you want a health insurance company's CEO to be in charge of your healthcare.

I'm always baffled that you think this is an argument.

"So you want a politician, and their political lobbying groups, to be in charge of your healthcare?"

The difference between my statement, and your statement, is that mine is actually accurate, while yours is mythology.

I have been to a doctor when I didn't have insurance. I've been to a hospital without insurance.

Both times, I got something called a "bill". I then paid the "bill".

What insurance CEO has control over my health care?

That isn't a valid complaint. People who have insurance, choose to have insurance, because they value the service provided by the insurance company. You don't have to have insurance. You can choose to not have insurance, and just pay the bill yourself.

And quite frankly, if you think government politicians are going to take care of you... you are crazy.

AOC has been caught funneling money to her lover, through corrupt transactions. You think she is going to take care of you?

Reminds me of the MP up in Canada, getting cancer, and flying to the US for care, on tax payer dollars. She's taking care of herself... not the public. While people are dying on 3 year long waiting lists in Canada, she's using their tax dollars to fly to the US to get good care.

Or Castro in Cuba, not using the garbage Cuban health care system, but hiring a private doctor, and flying him and his medical equipment, to personally service Castro alone... while the average Cuban can't even get Aspirin.

You people seem completely detached from reality. You live in this mythical fairy land, where elitist in Washington, who have never worked a full days wage in their life... are going to take care of you?

Please.... if I have to choose, I'll take a CEO who has provided a service to millions of people, over a 1970s socialist mummy who was kicked out of his own commune, because he was too lazy.

Absolutely, I'll take the CEO. You can have your VA Hospital waiting list, and pray the politicians fix your life. We'll see who ends up better off.

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

I'll go to the Mayo clinic, and get top quality care. You can go to your medicare approved doctor, and we'll see who is better off.

One of my co-workers needed hand surgery, didn't want to pay for it, went through the government, and that doctor screwed up her hand so badly, she never came back to work.

My father who is a career painter and water color artist, had the same surgery though a private doctor, and it was expensive, and now he can paint again.

Yeah, let's see who ends up better off.

VA: Secret waiting list delayed care for 87 veterans in 2017


Good luck with that.

The VA hospitals were government run. Under single payer hospitals are private run.

Got any other stupid excuse?

Medicare is more efficient that insurance companies.

No they are not. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Canada has virtually no private hospitals.

Ontario - by far the most populated province - has over 13 million people and 492 hospitals. Only two are private...and they are very small at that and are public/private.

Number hospitals Canada by province 2016 | Statistic
Centric Health: One of Ontario's Two Public Private Hospitals | Beaches|Life magazine

No you are not correct.

list of private hospitals in canada - Bing

However, Dana is correct to a minor extent. There are in fact a few private hospitals that take government patients.

Which is EXACTLY what I said above. I did not say there were NONE. And later I corrected myself by saying that although many hospitals are not owned/run by the government. Virtually every critical care hospital (i.e. not cosmetic surgery/physiotherapy/etc.) in Canada was paid for by taxpayers/donations and are run non-profit. And that is the problem...no competition.

The problem there is, the government dictate how much the hospital is compensated for treating those patients. As a result the quality of care at private hospitals that treat government-patients, is not much better than the government run hospitals.

The benefits of competition and free-market capitalism, only exist when it is actually competitive and free-market. If the government dictates how it works.... then it doesn't work.

If government controls every aspect of how something works.... just merely putting on paper that it is a privately run business, doesn't change anything.

This is why dogs in Canada get better care than people.

https://www.amazon.com/Lucky-Dog-Being-Veterinarian-Saved/dp/1770893512&tag=ff0d01-20

Animal health care is in fact a free-market capitalist system in Canada. As a result, a Dog can get an MRI in hours, while a human could wait 6 months. A Dog can get surgery in days, where a human could wait 3 years.

The cost for treating a dog, has gone down from competition, where as the cost of to treat a human has drastically gone up. (increased more by being forced to fly out of the country for care).

I agree with the rest.

 

[beagle9]

How is it not letting people die? They may know what the policy says, but they don't know how sick they will get , or don't believe that they will. Then it happens and the (real) death panels issue a death sentence.

No, they follow the letter of the insurance policy. Insurance won't work if they don't do that. They're no more responsible for "letting" someone die that any of us.

Interesting how you, on one hand say that you don't trust the insurance execs and at the same time, your an apologist for them and deny that they put profits over people.

I'm doing neither. I'm not an apologist for the insurance companies, and I'm not denying they put "profits over people". I'm explaining to you how insurance works. It's not a charity. It's not socialism. It's not your caretaker. Asking insurance companies to fill those roles is dumb.

Hmmm, don't insurance companies practice the very concept of socialism within it's program offered ???

No. Socialism is a form of government.

Then what are individual minded socialist ?

No, socialism is an ideology that is being found more, and more, and more in many things. The concept or practice of socialism or socialist programs being run in our company structures, has in fact resulted in keeping the workers down while enriching the upper management/ownerships to no end.

 

[beagle9]

Leave people alone and let them deal with their own health care issues however they see fit.

That is not a solution. It's a death sentence for many. Chronic , preventable illness for others, and a drain on society. Not to mention selfish.

True, government has always backed up the capitalist system in play.

 

[ph3iron]

So you want a health insurance company's CEO to be in charge of your healthcare.

I'm always baffled that you think this is an argument.

"So you want a politician, and their political lobbying groups, to be in charge of your healthcare?"

The difference between my statement, and your statement, is that mine is actually accurate, while yours is mythology.

I have been to a doctor when I didn't have insurance. I've been to a hospital without insurance.

Both times, I got something called a "bill". I then paid the "bill".

What insurance CEO has control over my health care?

That isn't a valid complaint. People who have insurance, choose to have insurance, because they value the service provided by the insurance company. You don't have to have insurance. You can choose to not have insurance, and just pay the bill yourself.

And quite frankly, if you think government politicians are going to take care of you... you are crazy.

AOC has been caught funneling money to her lover, through corrupt transactions. You think she is going to take care of you?

Reminds me of the MP up in Canada, getting cancer, and flying to the US for care, on tax payer dollars. She's taking care of herself... not the public. While people are dying on 3 year long waiting lists in Canada, she's using their tax dollars to fly to the US to get good care.

Or Castro in Cuba, not using the garbage Cuban health care system, but hiring a private doctor, and flying him and his medical equipment, to personally service Castro alone... while the average Cuban can't even get Aspirin.

You people seem completely detached from reality. You live in this mythical fairy land, where elitist in Washington, who have never worked a full days wage in their life... are going to take care of you?

Please.... if I have to choose, I'll take a CEO who has provided a service to millions of people, over a 1970s socialist mummy who was kicked out of his own commune, because he was too lazy.

Absolutely, I'll take the CEO. You can have your VA Hospital waiting list, and pray the politicians fix your life. We'll see who ends up better off.

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

I'll go to the Mayo clinic, and get top quality care. You can go to your medicare approved doctor, and we'll see who is better off.

One of my co-workers needed hand surgery, didn't want to pay for it, went through the government, and that doctor screwed up her hand so badly, she never came back to work.

My father who is a career painter and water color artist, had the same surgery though a private doctor, and it was expensive, and now he can paint again.

Yeah, let's see who ends up better off.

VA: Secret waiting list delayed care for 87 veterans in 2017


Good luck with that.

The VA hospitals were government run. Under single payer hospitals are private run.

Got any other stupid excuse?

Medicare is more efficient that insurance companies.

No they are not. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Canada has virtually no private hospitals.

Ontario - by far the most populated province - has over 13 million people and 492 hospitals. Only two are private...and they are very small at that and are public/private.

Number hospitals Canada by province 2016 | Statistic
Centric Health: One of Ontario's Two Public Private Hospitals | Beaches|Life magazine

No you are not correct.

list of private hospitals in canada - Bing

A link to a group of search engine results? What lazy ass nonsense.

Post a link that shows the ACTUAL names of hospitals...not clinics or cosmetic surgery 'hospitals' or physio 'hospitals'. But full blown hospitals that do operations like bypass surgeries and the like.

I posted two links that proves there are only two private PROPER HOSPITALS in Ontario.

BTW - two of Toronto's 'private hospitals' (like Mount Sinai) are part of the University of Toronto....which is a public research university. In other words - it AIN'T private. So the hospitals are not private.

Mount Sinai Hospital (Toronto) - Wikipedia

Besides, what would be the point of them? BY LAW, they cannot charge people for critical care more than the government does...so what would be the point? So why would they bother? They certainly cannot make huge profits like some American hospitals can.

All I know is that 90% of Canadians and Brits love their plans.
But what do they know over American rubes who have never lived anywhere?

 

[Andylusion]

No, they follow the letter of the insurance policy. Insurance won't work if they don't do that. They're no more responsible for "letting" someone die that any of us.

Interesting how you, on one hand say that you don't trust the insurance execs and at the same time, your an apologist for them and deny that they put profits over people.

I'm doing neither. I'm not an apologist for the insurance companies, and I'm not denying they put "profits over people". I'm explaining to you how insurance works. It's not a charity. It's not socialism. It's not your caretaker. Asking insurance companies to fill those roles is dumb.

Hmmm, don't insurance companies practice the very concept of socialism within it's program offered ??? Otherwise a pool or pools are created, and in these pools everyone is gathered together in order to take care of each other by way of the insurance staff managing the pool for it's customers.. Otherwise, (the healthiest then paying into the pool takes care of the sick who are placed into the pool as well right) ????

You know socialism may not exist in everything, but it sure does exist in this country, and it is found in operation in government, in companies, and in corporations through in and through out.

It's just that if it becomes an unhealthy dosage as with any drug, then it kills it's host or causes an eventual self destruct mode or countdown to begin.

That a backward way of looking at it. Insurance pools are not created with the idea of health people paying for the unhealthy.

Insurance pools, look at the probable risk, and compare that risk to possible loss, and then charge a relative premium to offset that risk.

It has nothing to do with socialism. It is a free-market voluntary exchange, where a company charges premiums, to take on the burden of the risk.

Moreover, your comparison would only apply to specifically company insurance policies, which only exist because the government created such a system.

In a free market insurance system, no 'pool' exists. For example, I have private insurance right now. There is no 'pool' that I am in. I simply have a policy that covers just me.

Which is the way it should be. Everyone should have private non-employer provided insurance.

I don't think so. If you have individual insurance, you're part of an insurance pool. Some of your premiums will go to cover others making claims and some will go to profit.

No, it's not a pool.

Now does the company, maybe take money from me to pay claims of others?

Well sure. That's called "insurance". If you have car insurance, and your neighbor wrecks his car, and you don't.... some of your car insurance premiums might go to your neighbors car repair.

Similarly, if we both have life insurance, and my neighbor dies, some of my life insurance premiums could go to his widow.

So what? That isn't socialism... because he paid for that service, just like I paid for that service. It's not to each according to their need. My neighbor is any engineer that makes a 6-figure income, and I make $25K. Yet if we have similar cars and similar driving history, our premiums will be similar. Equally if he crashes and I don't, he'll get money according to policy, and I won't.

Just like life insurance. His widow could be filthy rich, but if he dies and I don't, she gets the money, and I don't.

And the fact is, every business could be looked at the same way. If you buy a car, and your neighbor buys a car.... it is highly likely that some of the money you spent, was used to make your neighbors cars. How do you think they built your neighbors car? You think they built it with your neighbors money? Because they didn't have his money, until he bought the completely car. So the money they used to build that car... came from you.

So it must be socialism! No it is not.

And lastly, you say profit like that is bad. I profit from working. Nearly all people do. If they didn't, they wouldn't work.

And where do you think jobs are created from? Profits. You show me the non-government funded company, that created millions of jobs, with zero profits. Good luck with that.

Profits are good. If a company doesn't have profits, then it doesn't exist, and where would you get insurance then?

Lets say that you create a law, that says that hospitals are not allowed by law, to make a profit. The buildings heating system breaks down in the middle of winter. Where do they get the money to fix the heating system? They simply don't. Because where you get the money to fund building maintenance, is through profits. No profits, then you have no heat when the HVAC breaks down.

This is why in France, they had people inside the hospital dying of heat stroke, during heat wave... because they didn't have air conditioning.

Well how do you propose to pay for air conditioning, when you have no profits to use for those kinds of improvements?

And lastly......

One thing that blows my mind, is that left-wingers think that "profits" is an argument. If someone provides me a good or service, that is worth the money, they should profit from it. So "profits" is not evil.

But more importantly than that, left-wingers must live in a blind dumb and stupid utopian world, if they think that having a socialized system means there are no profits. There are most certainly profits in a socialist system.

It's just that instead of the public benefiting from those profits, only the elite in government and their political supporters profit from it.

See, with walmart, I own stock in walmart... so I personally as a private citizen, benefit from those profits.

But if walmart was socialized.... would there be no profits? Sure there would.... just not for the public. It would be their political supporters. Just like AOC had money funneled through a political action group, and then back to her boyfriend. Just like Hillary Clinton had money funneled to the Women's Hall of Fame, which then shockingly inducted Hillary into the Women's Hall of Fame. Just like Obama sent billions to green energy groups like Solyondra, who collected the money and disappeared. Just like Clinton was giving out favors for Enron. Just like Harris was named porker of the year, after proposing programs that could cost tax payers up to $78 Billion dollars, in programs that went to her political supporters.

And by the way, do not think that you are not creating rich fat cat wealthy people, with your socialism.

Just like the Castros are wealthy while cubans are poor (with their free health care)... or Venezuelians are poor while the Maduro administration is rich, and putting oil money in off shore accounts (with their free health care), or the elites of China, or former Soviet Russia, or North Korea.

All of them have free government everything, while the people live in poverty, and the elite live life extravagantly in government.

Similarly, putting government in charge of health care, doesn't mean the rich fat cats will have to live like the rest of us. NO, they will be rich wealthy people, while we pay the taxes to fund them.

Top 100 Most Well-Paid Employees

Head of the food and drug administration, makes just under $400,000 a year. And unlike a CEO, who generally takes most of their pay in stock options... this is cold hard tax payer cash.

Are you ready to pay double your tax rate, so they can give you a waiting list, while they collect $400K a year off your working butt?

I'll take the average CEO over that, any day.

 

[Lesh]

Kamala Harris believes that all Jamaicans are drug addicts.

No she doesn't and has never said that liar.

She commented that marijuana is part of that culture.

You disagree?

It's part of ours too ya know

 

[Lesh]

That a backward way of looking at it. Insurance pools are not created with the idea of health people paying for the unhealthy.

Insurance pools, look at the probable risk, and compare that risk to possible loss, and then charge a relative premium to offset that risk.

Hey dummy read what you wrote.

You just described healthy people paying for sick people. That's HOW insurance works.

 

[Andylusion]

I'm always baffled that you think this is an argument.

"So you want a politician, and their political lobbying groups, to be in charge of your healthcare?"

The difference between my statement, and your statement, is that mine is actually accurate, while yours is mythology.

I have been to a doctor when I didn't have insurance. I've been to a hospital without insurance.

Both times, I got something called a "bill". I then paid the "bill".

What insurance CEO has control over my health care?

That isn't a valid complaint. People who have insurance, choose to have insurance, because they value the service provided by the insurance company. You don't have to have insurance. You can choose to not have insurance, and just pay the bill yourself.

And quite frankly, if you think government politicians are going to take care of you... you are crazy.

AOC has been caught funneling money to her lover, through corrupt transactions. You think she is going to take care of you?

Reminds me of the MP up in Canada, getting cancer, and flying to the US for care, on tax payer dollars. She's taking care of herself... not the public. While people are dying on 3 year long waiting lists in Canada, she's using their tax dollars to fly to the US to get good care.

Or Castro in Cuba, not using the garbage Cuban health care system, but hiring a private doctor, and flying him and his medical equipment, to personally service Castro alone... while the average Cuban can't even get Aspirin.

You people seem completely detached from reality. You live in this mythical fairy land, where elitist in Washington, who have never worked a full days wage in their life... are going to take care of you?

Please.... if I have to choose, I'll take a CEO who has provided a service to millions of people, over a 1970s socialist mummy who was kicked out of his own commune, because he was too lazy.

Absolutely, I'll take the CEO. You can have your VA Hospital waiting list, and pray the politicians fix your life. We'll see who ends up better off.

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

I'll go to the Mayo clinic, and get top quality care. You can go to your medicare approved doctor, and we'll see who is better off.

One of my co-workers needed hand surgery, didn't want to pay for it, went through the government, and that doctor screwed up her hand so badly, she never came back to work.

My father who is a career painter and water color artist, had the same surgery though a private doctor, and it was expensive, and now he can paint again.

Yeah, let's see who ends up better off.

VA: Secret waiting list delayed care for 87 veterans in 2017


Good luck with that.

The VA hospitals were government run. Under single payer hospitals are private run.

Got any other stupid excuse?

Medicare is more efficient that insurance companies.

No they are not. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Canada has virtually no private hospitals.

Ontario - by far the most populated province - has over 13 million people and 492 hospitals. Only two are private...and they are very small at that and are public/private.

Number hospitals Canada by province 2016 | Statistic
Centric Health: One of Ontario's Two Public Private Hospitals | Beaches|Life magazine

No you are not correct.

list of private hospitals in canada - Bing

A link to a group of search engine results? What lazy ass nonsense.

Post a link that shows the ACTUAL names of hospitals...not clinics or cosmetic surgery 'hospitals' or physio 'hospitals'. But full blown hospitals that do operations like bypass surgeries and the like.

I posted two links that proves there are only two private PROPER HOSPITALS in Ontario.

BTW - two of Toronto's 'private hospitals' (like Mount Sinai) are part of the University of Toronto....which is a public research university. In other words - it AIN'T private. So the hospitals are not private.

Mount Sinai Hospital (Toronto) - Wikipedia

Besides, what would be the point of them? BY LAW, they cannot charge people for critical care more than the government does...so what would be the point? So why would they bother? They certainly cannot make huge profits like some American hospitals can.

All I know is that 90% of Canadians and Brits love their plans.
But what do they know over American rubes who have never lived anywhere?

Funny because I know a Canadian who moved to the US from Canada, because he wife was getting such terrible care there, that he was tired of seeing her abused.

Oddly, when you are paying bill, people treat you better, over where the government is paying the bill, and no matter how badly they treat you, they know they'll get paid. If a private doctor treats me badly, I don't go there again, and the doctor loses money. If a government doctor treats you badly, and you leave.... nothing happens. He's paid by the government.

That said, most people in Canada, don't know how much better the care is here.

A reporter was talking with a Canadian patient who had waited 3 years in pain, because she needed knee surgery, the waiting list was all she got. The reporter mentioned that to see a specialist and get knee surgery in the US was under a month, and the woman simply didn't believe it. She just assumed that multi-year waiting lists was the norm everywhere.

When you don't know how badly your system sucks, yeah, you tend to think it's great because at least you are not paying money for it.

Same with France. In France, nearly half the medications we have here in the US, are simply not available. So a French person likely thinks they are getting the best care, at no cost... simply because they don't know what care is available in a capitalist system where you pay for it.

Pretty easy to think you are getting great care, when you don't know there is a drug out there that does the same thing that yours does, only without making you sick and vomiting. If you don't know there is something better, pretty easy to say your system is great.

Here, Look at it from this lady, who lived in the US, and moved to the UK.

A tale of 2 sickbeds: Health care in U.K. vs. U.S.

She admits, it's great to not have any expenses.... Although she loses 9% of her income straight to the Health Tax.... of course that's actually a lie, because if you actually look up the numbers, a large chunk of the regular income tax, also goes to health care in the UK, so 9% is a lie. It's likely up near 15% or 20%.

But her experience shows that she hated the UK health care over the US health care. Having nurses that didn't give a crap. Being stuck in a hallway, because no beds were available. Being largely ignored otherwise. People laying in their own poop for hours. Having a woman crying for help, for almost an hour, while nurses run by ignoring them. And a doctor that showed up, at most, once in a day, and otherwise good luck seeing one.

I, myself, had a similar experience with a publicly funded clinic here in Columbus Ohio. I was sent there (thank the Lord), only to get a drug test for employment. I walked in to a room with no A/C in august, find myself sitting on a broken chair, with an actual CRT 12" TV in the corner that had such bad reception, that you couldn't hear what the people on it were saying. Just fuzz. The nurse was incredibly rude, and got angry with me for asking a question. The lobby that was smaller than a city bus, was packed with about 15 people.

I waited, and waited for over 1.5 hours. Finally yet another angry nurse demanded I come in. I finished the drug test, and started to leave, only to realize that not a single person in the room had been called in that time. 1.5 hours, the crying kids were still cry. The clearly in pain people, were still propped up on chairs. The worried looking mothers, were still sitting there stroking their children. Not one person had been seen, since I had entered over 1.5 hours ago.

I can't help but compare this to my experience with a private doctors. The nurse smiled, and asked me if I needed anything while I waited. I was seen 15 minutes later, and the nurse greeted me with a smile, and asked if I was comfortable. And other people had been seen, in that short 15 minutes I was there. Not people sitting there for hours while ignored. The lobby was clean, and the chairs were new, and the TV was a large flat screen. The doctor was friendly, and listened to all my issues. I was asked where would be best for me, to get a prescription.

Yeah, it cost money. Yes people make profit from it. But it is vastly better care, and better service. Just like the lady who went to the UK.

And all those people in the UK, likely think their health care is great. But that is because they have never used our system, where they are treated like real people, and are given prompt care.

When you don't know how much better our system is, you think yours is great.

When you are a mindless fool, who only listens to the media and political activists, all you know is "US care costs too much! UK care is free!".... if that is the limit to your understanding of the differences between the two systems, then yes it is easy to think government-care is great, and capitalist care is crap.

But when you look at survival rates. When you look at the quality of the care. When you look at how people are treated, and the wait times, and the dehumanizing nature of the system....

No, our system is way better. By far.

 

[Lesh]

You should write books. Unfortunately no one is gonna read them

 

[dblack]

Leave people alone and let them deal with their own health care issues however they see fit.

That is not a solution.

That depends on which problem you're trying to solve. In my view, the elephant-in-the-room problem is that prices are inflated. An average, working adult can't afford decent health care. And we've just come to accept that as "the way it is", which is moderately insane. Either our expectations are too high, and we need to come to terms with the fact that an average person can only afford average health care, or prices are artificially inflated, in which case we should talk about why and address the reasons. We probably need to do a little of both.

We've been saddled with dysfunctional systems, propped up by a corrupt regulatory regime. Drop the regulations that make this possible (repeal the tax incentives and labor law promoting employer provided health care, bust up state insurance fiefdoms, etc ..) and these dysfunctional systems will be replaced.

 

[danielpalos]

Leave people alone and let them deal with their own health care issues however they see fit.

That is not a solution.

That depends on which problem you're trying to solve. In my view, the elephant-in-the-room problem is that prices are inflated. An average, working adult can't afford decent health care. And we've just come to accept that as "the way it is", which is moderately insane. Either our expectations are too high, and we need to come to terms with the fact that an average person can only afford average health care, or prices are artificially inflated, in which case we should talk about why and address the reasons. We probably need to do a little of both.

We've been saddled with dysfunctional systems, propped up by a corrupt regulatory regime. Drop the regulations that make this possible (repeal the tax incentives and labor law promoting employer provided health care, bust up state insurance fiefdoms, etc ..) and these dysfunctional systems will be replaced.

Raise the minimum wage to fifteen an hour, minimum.

 

[eeyore]

Leave people alone and let them deal with their own health care issues however they see fit.

That is not a solution.

That depends on which problem you're trying to solve. In my view, the elephant-in-the-room problem is that prices are inflated. An average, working adult can't afford decent health care. And we've just come to accept that as "the way it is", which is moderately insane. Either our expectations are too high, and we need to come to terms with the fact that an average person can only afford average health care, or prices are artificially inflated, in which case we should talk about why and address the reasons. We probably need to do a little of both.

We've been saddled with dysfunctional systems, propped up by a corrupt regulatory regime. Drop the regulations that make this possible (repeal the tax incentives and labor law promoting employer provided health care, bust up state insurance fiefdoms, etc ..) and these dysfunctional systems will be replaced.

Raise the minimum wage to fifteen an hour, minimum.

You think that this will solve the "problem"?

 

[danielpalos]

Leave people alone and let them deal with their own health care issues however they see fit.

That is not a solution.

That depends on which problem you're trying to solve. In my view, the elephant-in-the-room problem is that prices are inflated. An average, working adult can't afford decent health care. And we've just come to accept that as "the way it is", which is moderately insane. Either our expectations are too high, and we need to come to terms with the fact that an average person can only afford average health care, or prices are artificially inflated, in which case we should talk about why and address the reasons. We probably need to do a little of both.

We've been saddled with dysfunctional systems, propped up by a corrupt regulatory regime. Drop the regulations that make this possible (repeal the tax incentives and labor law promoting employer provided health care, bust up state insurance fiefdoms, etc ..) and these dysfunctional systems will be replaced.

Raise the minimum wage to fifteen an hour, minimum.

You think that this will solve the "problem"?

it won't "solve" the problem, merely enable greater market participation by Labor.

 

[McRocket]

I'm always baffled that you think this is an argument.

"So you want a politician, and their political lobbying groups, to be in charge of your healthcare?"

The difference between my statement, and your statement, is that mine is actually accurate, while yours is mythology.

I have been to a doctor when I didn't have insurance. I've been to a hospital without insurance.

Both times, I got something called a "bill". I then paid the "bill".

What insurance CEO has control over my health care?

That isn't a valid complaint. People who have insurance, choose to have insurance, because they value the service provided by the insurance company. You don't have to have insurance. You can choose to not have insurance, and just pay the bill yourself.

And quite frankly, if you think government politicians are going to take care of you... you are crazy.

AOC has been caught funneling money to her lover, through corrupt transactions. You think she is going to take care of you?

Reminds me of the MP up in Canada, getting cancer, and flying to the US for care, on tax payer dollars. She's taking care of herself... not the public. While people are dying on 3 year long waiting lists in Canada, she's using their tax dollars to fly to the US to get good care.

Or Castro in Cuba, not using the garbage Cuban health care system, but hiring a private doctor, and flying him and his medical equipment, to personally service Castro alone... while the average Cuban can't even get Aspirin.

You people seem completely detached from reality. You live in this mythical fairy land, where elitist in Washington, who have never worked a full days wage in their life... are going to take care of you?

Please.... if I have to choose, I'll take a CEO who has provided a service to millions of people, over a 1970s socialist mummy who was kicked out of his own commune, because he was too lazy.

Absolutely, I'll take the CEO. You can have your VA Hospital waiting list, and pray the politicians fix your life. We'll see who ends up better off.

Why the Mayo Clinic is refusing to see Medicare patients

I'll go to the Mayo clinic, and get top quality care. You can go to your medicare approved doctor, and we'll see who is better off.

One of my co-workers needed hand surgery, didn't want to pay for it, went through the government, and that doctor screwed up her hand so badly, she never came back to work.

My father who is a career painter and water color artist, had the same surgery though a private doctor, and it was expensive, and now he can paint again.

Yeah, let's see who ends up better off.

VA: Secret waiting list delayed care for 87 veterans in 2017


Good luck with that.

The VA hospitals were government run. Under single payer hospitals are private run.

Got any other stupid excuse?

Medicare is more efficient that insurance companies.

No they are not. You have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

Canada has virtually no private hospitals.

Ontario - by far the most populated province - has over 13 million people and 492 hospitals. Only two are private...and they are very small at that and are public/private.

Number hospitals Canada by province 2016 | Statistic
Centric Health: One of Ontario's Two Public Private Hospitals | Beaches|Life magazine

No you are not correct.

list of private hospitals in canada - Bing

A link to a group of search engine results? What lazy ass nonsense.

Post a link that shows the ACTUAL names of hospitals...not clinics or cosmetic surgery 'hospitals' or physio 'hospitals'. But full blown hospitals that do operations like bypass surgeries and the like.

I posted two links that proves there are only two private PROPER HOSPITALS in Ontario.

BTW - two of Toronto's 'private hospitals' (like Mount Sinai) are part of the University of Toronto....which is a public research university. In other words - it AIN'T private. So the hospitals are not private.

Mount Sinai Hospital (Toronto) - Wikipedia

Besides, what would be the point of them? BY LAW, they cannot charge people for critical care more than the government does...so what would be the point? So why would they bother? They certainly cannot make huge profits like some American hospitals can.

All I know is that 90% of Canadians and Brits love their plans.
But what do they know over American rubes who have never lived anywhere?

Do you have a link to these numbers?