Just what IS conservativism?

Bfgrn

Gold Member
Apr 4, 2009
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What is conservatism? In my opinion, it is respect for the past and the wisdom of our ancestors. Their lives were built on their ancestors and so it goes, from one generation to the next. You ultimately respect their lives and toil not by paying lip service to it or using empty rhetoric like 'family values'. You do it by embracing those values. You do it by making their hard earned lessons your easy learned lessons. You do it by respecting and fighting for the policies and programs they crafted that increased the benefits and lessened the losses to our communities and our society.

How did our ancestors craft these policies and programs, were they based on some ideology? I believe they were based on common decency, respect for your neighbors, common sense, experience, trial and error and a strong sense of community.

I was raised in the 1950's. My dad was the sole provider, and my mom was a housewife and mother. We didn't call it 'family values', we called it family. When I came home from school, no matter what kind of day I had, it became brighter as soon as I walked in the door to a 'hi honey' from my mom. It not only brightened my day, it built self worth and a positive self image. All my friends and school mates had a similar story...a father that worked and a mother that stayed home to raise and nurture their children. None of us kids ever knew or even cared what anyone else's father did for a living. None of us had to go without; food, clothing, pets, bikes, baseball gloves, doctor care (our doctor used to come to the house), a quality public education with all the extras; sports, arts, school run ice rink, summer swimming and sports programs etc. But none of us were pampered or spoiled either.

THAT is exactly what I want for my kids and for my grand-kids.

So...In a very real way I AM truly a conservative.

So, what is conservatism? I don't hear people that call themselves conservatives talk that way or think that way. I don't hear talk of building, I hear talk of tearing down. I don't hear talk of a helping hand, I hear talk of letting them fail. I don't hear talk of the public good, I hear talk about me and mine. I don't hear compassion for fellow citizens, I hear disdain. I never hear them talk about human capital, just mammon. These so called conservatives are ideologues that want to dismantle any shred of community and replace it with SELF interest.

That is not 'conservatism', that is called narcissism.

"You shall rise in the presence of grey hairs, give honor to the aged, and fear God, I am the Lord"
Leviticus 19:32
 
What is conservatism? In my opinion, it is respect for the past and the wisdom of our ancestors. Their lives were built on their ancestors and so it goes, from one generation to the next. You ultimately respect their lives and toil not by paying lip service to it or using empty rhetoric like 'family values'. You do it by embracing those values. You do it by making their hard earned lessons your easy learned lessons. You do it by respecting and fighting for the policies and programs they crafted that increased the benefits and lessened the losses to our communities and our society.

How did our ancestors craft these policies and programs, were they based on some ideology? I believe they were based on common decency, respect for your neighbors, common sense, experience, trial and error and a strong sense of community.

I was raised in the 1950's. My dad was the sole provider, and my mom was a housewife and mother. We didn't call it 'family values', we called it family. When I came home from school, no matter what kind of day I had, it became brighter as soon as I walked in the door to a 'hi honey' from my mom. It not only brightened my day, it built self worth and a positive self image. All my friends and school mates had a similar story...a father that worked and a mother that stayed home to raise and nurture their children. None of us kids ever knew or even cared what anyone else's father did for a living. None of us had to go without; food, clothing, pets, bikes, baseball gloves, doctor care (our doctor used to come to the house), a quality public education with all the extras; sports, arts, school run ice rink, summer swimming and sports programs etc. But none of us were pampered or spoiled either.

THAT is exactly what I want for my kids and for my grand-kids.

So...In a very real way I AM truly a conservative.

So, what is conservatism? I don't hear people that call themselves conservatives talk that way or think that way. I don't hear talk of building, I hear talk of tearing down. I don't hear talk of a helping hand, I hear talk of letting them fail. I don't hear talk of the public good, I hear talk about me and mine. I don't hear compassion for fellow citizens, I hear disdain. I never hear them talk about human capital, just mammon. These so called conservatives are ideologues that want to dismantle any shred of community and replace it with SELF interest.

That is not 'conservatism', that is called narcissism.

"You shall rise in the presence of grey hairs, give honor to the aged, and fear God, I am the Lord"
Leviticus 19:32






well, see there? the key to this conundrum is that back in the 50's there were families. Today what you have is a bunch of un wed people running around having babies, no dad's to raise them, feed them, clothe them, god knows where dad is at, just a single mom trying to make a living, she usually has more than one baby and she's usually on the dole. so you see your world has changed dramatically. and here's another thing. at the rate we're going the moochers are going to outnumber the producers, then you'll really have something to whine about.
 
What is conservatism? In my opinion, it is respect for the past and the wisdom of our ancestors. Their lives were built on their ancestors and so it goes, from one generation to the next. You ultimately respect their lives and toil not by paying lip service to it or using empty rhetoric like 'family values'. You do it by embracing those values. You do it by making their hard earned lessons your easy learned lessons. You do it by respecting and fighting for the policies and programs they crafted that increased the benefits and lessened the losses to our communities and our society.

How did our ancestors craft these policies and programs, were they based on some ideology? I believe they were based on common decency, respect for your neighbors, common sense, experience, trial and error and a strong sense of community.

I was raised in the 1950's. My dad was the sole provider, and my mom was a housewife and mother. We didn't call it 'family values', we called it family. When I came home from school, no matter what kind of day I had, it became brighter as soon as I walked in the door to a 'hi honey' from my mom. It not only brightened my day, it built self worth and a positive self image. All my friends and school mates had a similar story...a father that worked and a mother that stayed home to raise and nurture their children. None of us kids ever knew or even cared what anyone else's father did for a living. None of us had to go without; food, clothing, pets, bikes, baseball gloves, doctor care (our doctor used to come to the house), a quality public education with all the extras; sports, arts, school run ice rink, summer swimming and sports programs etc. But none of us were pampered or spoiled either.

THAT is exactly what I want for my kids and for my grand-kids.

So...In a very real way I AM truly a conservative.

So, what is conservatism? I don't hear people that call themselves conservatives talk that way or think that way. I don't hear talk of building, I hear talk of tearing down. I don't hear talk of a helping hand, I hear talk of letting them fail. I don't hear talk of the public good, I hear talk about me and mine. I don't hear compassion for fellow citizens, I hear disdain. I never hear them talk about human capital, just mammon. These so called conservatives are ideologues that want to dismantle any shred of community and replace it with SELF interest.

That is not 'conservatism', that is called narcissism.

"You shall rise in the presence of grey hairs, give honor to the aged, and fear God, I am the Lord"
Leviticus 19:32






well, see there? the key to this conundrum is that back in the 50's there were families. Today what you have is a bunch of un wed people running around having babies, no dad's to raise them, feed them, clothe them, god knows where dad is at, just a single mom trying to make a living, she usually has more than one baby and she's usually on the dole. so you see your world has changed dramatically. and here's another thing. at the rate we're going the moochers are going to outnumber the producers, then you'll really have something to whine about.

How did we get there willow? We've had over 30 years of 'conservative' policies and governance.

The Republicans and the right in America today believe the only way to solve our problems is through punishment. And if that doesn't work, the punishment is just not severe enough. I suggest you research the 1994 Crimes Bill and how Republicans and the right demonized the most constructive part of that bill that addressed the societal problems you point out.

In the early to mid 90's Congress crafted a crimes bill. I will not not go into the many unintended consequences of the bill, but the original funding framework called for equal thirds of the money to go to 1) police enforcement 2) prisons 3) crime prevention

The crime prevention part of the bill would go toward education, job training, community engagement by law enforcement, child-centered activities (money for arts and crafts, dance programs, recreational activities, nutrition training, and so forth), assorted inner city youth activity programs, urban parks and recreation, schools (money is to be used "to improve the academic and social development of youths by instituting a collaborative structure that trains and coordinates efforts of social workers, teachers, and principles."), youth development for such activities as "providing youth with life skills" , drug treatment programs in prisons. and facilities like community centers.

Statistics showed that the majority of youth crimes are committed after school lets out and before dinner time. It is not difficult to see what is missing during that time period, adult supervision. So the idea was to provide a safe and supervised facility where these kids could go.

It was during this period that Newt Gingrich and the 'Contract with America' Republicans took over Congress.

The 'Contract with America' Republicans attacked and demonized this part of the bill. They even labeled it and added a racial slur, They called the prevention part of the bill paying for 'midnight basketball'

The real irony of that debate; Police Chiefs from around the country ascended on Washington to lobby Congress FOR the prevention provisions, because they knew that the best way to help law enforcement was not more police or more punishment, it was through education, training and community activism.
 
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The family structure of the 50s was not as Leave it to Beaver and Ozzie and Harriet as everyone remembers. I remember families where the husband was abusive and the wife was trapped in a marriage because she had no other options. Once womens lib took hold and opportunities for employment for women became available, many of these idyllic marriages ended.
Once women entered the workforce, employers adjusted the salary structure to make it so families could not exist without two salaries. That is the true conservatism
 
Conservatism has been on the outside looking in since the Great Society.

WHAT???? You must be living in some parallel universe where up is down and inside is outside. Liberals and progressives boarded Bobby Kennedy's funeral train in 1968 and were never seen or heard from again.
 
What is conservatism? In my opinion, it is respect for the past and the wisdom of our ancestors. Their lives were built on their ancestors and so it goes, from one generation to the next. You ultimately respect their lives and toil not by paying lip service to it or using empty rhetoric like 'family values'. You do it by embracing those values. You do it by making their hard earned lessons your easy learned lessons. You do it by respecting and fighting for the policies and programs they crafted that increased the benefits and lessened the losses to our communities and our society.

How did our ancestors craft these policies and programs, were they based on some ideology? I believe they were based on common decency, respect for your neighbors, common sense, experience, trial and error and a strong sense of community.

I was raised in the 1950's. My dad was the sole provider, and my mom was a housewife and mother. We didn't call it 'family values', we called it family. When I came home from school, no matter what kind of day I had, it became brighter as soon as I walked in the door to a 'hi honey' from my mom. It not only brightened my day, it built self worth and a positive self image. All my friends and school mates had a similar story...a father that worked and a mother that stayed home to raise and nurture their children. None of us kids ever knew or even cared what anyone else's father did for a living. None of us had to go without; food, clothing, pets, bikes, baseball gloves, doctor care (our doctor used to come to the house), a quality public education with all the extras; sports, arts, school run ice rink, summer swimming and sports programs etc. But none of us were pampered or spoiled either.

THAT is exactly what I want for my kids and for my grand-kids.

So...In a very real way I AM truly a conservative.

So, what is conservatism? I don't hear people that call themselves conservatives talk that way or think that way. I don't hear talk of building, I hear talk of tearing down. I don't hear talk of a helping hand, I hear talk of letting them fail. I don't hear talk of the public good, I hear talk about me and mine. I don't hear compassion for fellow citizens, I hear disdain. I never hear them talk about human capital, just mammon. These so called conservatives are ideologues that want to dismantle any shred of community and replace it with SELF interest.

That is not 'conservatism', that is called narcissism.

"You shall rise in the presence of grey hairs, give honor to the aged, and fear God, I am the Lord"
Leviticus 19:32






well, see there? the key to this conundrum is that back in the 50's there were families. Today what you have is a bunch of un wed people running around having babies, no dad's to raise them, feed them, clothe them, god knows where dad is at, just a single mom trying to make a living, she usually has more than one baby and she's usually on the dole. so you see your world has changed dramatically. and here's another thing. at the rate we're going the moochers are going to outnumber the producers, then you'll really have something to whine about.

How did we get there willow? We've had over 30 years of 'conservative' policies and governance.

The Republicans and the right in America today believe the only way to solve our problems is through punishment. And if that doesn't work, the punishment is just not severe enough. I suggest you research the 1994 Crimes Bill and how Republicans and the right demonized the most constructive part of that bill that addressed the societal problems you point out.

In the early to mid 90's Congress crafted a crimes bill. I will not not go into the many unintended consequences of the bill, but the original funding framework called for equal thirds of the money to go to 1) police enforcement 2) prisons 3) crime prevention

The crime prevention part of the bill would go toward education, job training, community engagement by law enforcement, child-centered activities (money for arts and crafts, dance programs, recreational activities, nutrition training, and so forth), assorted inner city youth activity programs, urban parks and recreation, schools (money is to be used "to improve the academic and social development of youths by instituting a collaborative structure that trains and coordinates efforts of social workers, teachers, and principles."), youth development for such activities as "providing youth with life skills" , drug treatment programs in prisons. and facilities like community centers.

Statistics showed that the majority of youth crimes are committed after school lets out and before dinner time. It is not difficult to see what is missing during that time period, adult supervision. So the idea was to provide a safe and supervised facility where these kids could go.

It was during this period that Newt Gingrich and the 'Contract with America' Republicans took over Congress.

The 'Contract with America' Republicans attacked and demonized this part of the bill. They even labeled it and added a racial slur, They called the prevention part of the bill paying for 'midnight basketball'

The real irony of that debate; Police Chiefs from around the country ascended on Washington to lobby Congress FOR the prevention provisions, because they knew that the best way to help law enforcement was not more police or more punishment, it was through education, training and community activism.

How did we get here Willow? Your first big mistake is blaming the White people and the Republicans.
 
What percent of their income did families pay in taxes (all of them) in the 1950s?

The important thing is what devoured family income.

98115-125984636910344-John-Lounsbury_origin.jpg
 
So, what is conservatism? I don't hear people that call themselves conservatives talk that way or think that way. (Then you are'nt listening close enough or you are'nt around true conservatives enough. I can relate to waht you feel b/c I feel the same way & Im conservative)I don't hear talk of building, I hear talk of tearing down. (example please - I dont hear conservatives tearing anything down. I hear folks who want to be left to their own devices - to fail or prosper) I don't hear talk of a helping hand, I hear talk of letting them fail. (Again, example - b/c in my case, I want to help folks provide for themself. If you dont teach people that if you dont try to help yourself, why should I bust my ass just to watch my hard earned dollars go to someone who does'nt care to get up and earn it on their own. Oh and it is a proven fact that conservatives donate a Hell of alot more than libs) I don't hear talk of the public good, I hear talk about me and mine. (when you take care of your own castle, then you can begin to help others... and my castle and all its contents are being looted by my gov't at the moment. So yes... I care about me and my own) I don't hear compassion for fellow citizens, I hear disdain. (I as a conservative want to see everyone succed, but I am also a realist... not everyone is going to succeed, nor do they care to. Those are the ones I get pissed at and have disdain for, b/c all they want to do is bitch about waht they dont have, and refuse to help themselves) I never hear them talk about human capital, just mammon. ( :confused: )These so called conservatives are ideologues that want to dismantle any shred of community and replace it with SELF interest. (Simply untrue)

That is not 'conservatism', that is called narcissism.

"You shall rise in the presence of grey hairs, give honor to the aged, and fear God, I am the Lord"
Leviticus 19:32

I understand your questions, but I dont understand your refusal to see that true conservatives want what is best for all of us, and not just the ones at the top, and also to not pull all of us down to the bottom.
True conservatism is to take up the tasks as a people and for the gov't to get out of our way and let us succeed or fail w/o interference from them.
 
Health care costs rose when government got involved. If you did not need two incomes you would not need child care.

Go back to the 50s.

See what percent of your income all taxes consumed.

Health care costs rose when Wall Street started manipulating the insurance industries by punishing companies that didn't have a low enough 'medical loss ratio', translation; didn't deny enough claims and cancel enough policies...REAL death panels. Health care costs rose when doctors stopped being just doctors and began building profit driven over utilization centers.

Family spending for taxes are 25% higher in 2007 vs. 1970's. Ronbo Reagan sharply reduced the income tax for the wealthiest Americans and corporations. But other taxes taxes were acceptable. In 1982, taxes were raised on gasoline and cigarettes. In 1983, Ronbo signed the biggest tax rise on payrolls. Unemployment compensation became taxed. The self-employment tax jumped as much as 66 percent.
 

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